Date   

Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi All,

I am taking the very unusual step of repeating my recent information. On SM 299 the steel hawse pipe and its upper flange are an integral part of securing the anchor winch through the bolt that goes through the flange. Without repeating the detail, I was minus that bolt for a short period and there was significant  and unacceptable flexing of the deck when the winch was in use hauling the anchor. So unless your model has another method of stiffening the deck I would counsel  any replacement should include awareness of this.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 08 March 2019 at 07:15 "Gary Silver via Groups.Io" <garysilver@...> wrote:

Hi Alan: 

I am surprised to hear of number of boats affected.  It seems this is a common failure mode.  I have not done mine. I only discovered the problem when I spent a couple of days inside both of my forward lockers (lazarettes) doing the repairs on their floors.  Really not that bad of a job with a tyvek suit and full face respirator.  Prior to that I had never looked up, to the underside of the locker "ceiling" but I found the FRP "collar" at the top of the pipe split due to the pressure of the underlying rust.  Since I had my angle grinder in hand I ground enough FRP away to see the extensive rust of the pipe and flange.  I couldn't see any evidence of water intrusion, like salt crystals etc, and I am at a bit of a loss as to why this rusted so badly.  I will definitely do a non-rusting repair.  I don't believe this hawse pipe was structural in any way since there is only a single tab at the top and nothing tying it to the floor except the lower FRP collar. We all know that the floor of these lockers are under engineered for the loads imposed in pounding seas (e.g. tabbed only on the top so that loads tend to delaminate the plywood and un-protected from below from the moisture of the chain locker resulting in rot of the wood). 

I just don't see the need to place anything made of mild steel (galvanized or not) on an ocean going boat.  Like most of these things the cost of the materials is minuscule compared to the labor and grief involved in re-dos. Just my two cent worth. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335


Re: Marco UP6/E pump and MASS+

Brent Cameron
 

Bill, I had a look at the manuals for the UP6/E and MASS+ and the associated PCS, and it is clear from the pictures of the PCS circuit board that the RJ11 (phone not ethernet) jack is sending digital signals that are being picked up by a small Arduino CPU and translated for control purposes so there would be no easy way to tap into that to get a run light connected.  The reason I’m interested in this is that I ran into a similar problem on a friend's Amel (a Super Maramu) using a different pump.  It seemed  that the original Amel pump had a wire that was energized with 24V when the pump Motor was on but the new (Jabsco) pump didn’t have a provision for that.  

It could be handled fairly simply by putting a normally open relay in the circuit that provides power to the motor that would close the relay upon power being applied to the motor.  The controlled side of the relay could be wired from a 24V source to the light and back to the supply side ground.  This way, when ever the motor was energized, the relay would close, allowing 24V to turn on the light.  On the Jabsco, that was relatively easy as the power and the energized motor wires were easily accessible but you’d still need to put the whole contraption into a watertight box so wouldn’t necessarily be cheap - and introduces another failure point. That said, on this particular pump, you’d have to tap into the circuit that is between the pump controller and the pump motor to power the relay which would probably mean opening the case, so I’d probably just spring $90 for the PCS and be done with it as it provides a lot more information than just on/off.

It does look like a fine pump though.  

Brent Cameron, Future SM2K Owner

--
Brent Cameron

Future Super Maramu 2000 Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

Gary Silver
 

Hi Alan: 

I am surprised to hear of number of boats affected.  It seems this is a common failure mode.  I have not done mine. I only discovered the problem when I spent a couple of days inside both of my forward lockers (lazarettes) doing the repairs on their floors.  Really not that bad of a job with a tyvek suit and full face respirator.  Prior to that I had never looked up, to the underside of the locker "ceiling" but I found the FRP "collar" at the top of the pipe split due to the pressure of the underlying rust.  Since I had my angle grinder in hand I ground enough FRP away to see the extensive rust of the pipe and flange.  I couldn't see any evidence of water intrusion, like salt crystals etc, and I am at a bit of a loss as to why this rusted so badly.  I will definitely do a non-rusting repair.  I don't believe this hawse pipe was structural in any way since there is only a single tab at the top and nothing tying it to the floor except the lower FRP collar. We all know that the floor of these lockers are under engineered for the loads imposed in pounding seas (e.g. tabbed only on the top so that loads tend to delaminate the plywood and un-protected from below from the moisture of the chain locker resulting in rot of the wood). 

I just don't see the need to place anything made of mild steel (galvanized or not) on an ocean going boat.  Like most of these things the cost of the materials is minuscule compared to the labor and grief involved in re-dos. Just my two cent worth. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

svcharisma
 

Gary,
thank you for starting this thread.  I am also getting ready to take on this project.  I am interested to hear if anyone has actually done this yet and what the results have been.  I do have to say that my galvanized pipe lasted for 30 years.  Replacing it in kind is also a possible option.

Alan Spence
Mango #62


Re: propeller Zinc

 

Alessandro,

All Santorins, Super Maramus, 54s, and 55s were delivered new from Amel with a plastic cap. They were all red, except possibly late model 54s and all 55s which were black.

The Amel bonding system was designed to protect the AutoProp propeller, which is made by Bruntons. For years, Bruntons said to install a zinc anode on the AutoProp propeller. Recently, Bruntons agrees with Henri that the Amel bonding system is better than the anode on the AutoProp propeller.

There are some Amel owners that install the zinc.

If I owned your beautiful Super Maramu, it would have the original plastic cap and not the zinc anode on the AutoProp propeller.

Best,

Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St.
Galveston, Texas 77550
832-380-4970



On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 11:41 AM via Groups.Io <agennai=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
If I understood properly  you suggest don’t use zinc in the propeller, isn’t it?



Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

James Alton
 

Thomas,
Your post about making replacement of the PVC tube very easy got me to thinking about how this could be done.  What if instead of planning to replace the PVC tube, a simple sacrificial flanged plastic bushing was made to fit into the PVC pipe on the bottom face of the anchor locker?  Since the bushing would have a  smaller ID than the PVC it would take all of the side loads and eliminate essentially all of the wear on the PVC pipe?  It might be good to make the ID of the PCV tube a little larger to allow for the hole in the sacrificial bushing to be of sufficient size.  I believe that the base hole in the windlass is already serving the function of the bushing at the top so only a bushing at the bottom would be needed.  Perhaps the bushing could be made to screw in place to eliminate having to install many fasteners in that difficult area to work?  

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 7, 2019, at 11:01 AM, Thomas Kleman <lorient422@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Craig- my upper flange will be water-tight and glued/glassed to the underside of the deck under the windlass. It fits tightly inside the pipe; thus a water-tight joint unless water can flow upwards. The pipe will run through the locker floor (which will be glassed both sides) and have a flange underneath the floor which it enters. The flange is slightly lower than the glassed floor. The area around the flange under the floor will be waterproof. 

I haven't started the project yet (tomorrow) but at this point I see no need to glass the outside of a thick piece of pvc which I might need to replace someday. It would not impact waterproofing unless the pipe wore through, thus validating my design criteria that ease of replacement is important.


Re: propeller Zinc

alessandro gennai <agennai@...>
 

If I understood properly you suggest don’t use zinc in the propeller, isn’t it?


Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

James Alton
 

Oliver,

   Thank you for taking the time to add your wisdom to the discussion.  I am very happy with the  heavily glassed fibreglass tubes in my boat such as the cockpit drains.  It is so nice that by making the drains essentially as strong as the hull that there is no need for the complication of valves,  hoses, clamps and the normal type connections.

   The chain pipe on Sueno also appears to be heavily glassed and very strong.  I can imagine that in the case of a chain ball or some other snag that suddenly stopped a rapid chain deployment that the forces could be very high on the locker floor.  A strong chain pipe could serve as a compression member to transfer the loads to the underside of the deck, great engineering IMO.  I agree with the original Amel design in making all of these critical tubes strong and if I ever have to rebuild my chain locker, I will certainly restore the original amount of strength or more.   

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 7, 2019, at 6:11 AM, Beaute Olivier via Groups.Io <atlanticyachtsurvey@...> wrote:

Hi everybody,

the two master pieces made of PVC tube glassed to the hull and deck are the cockpit drains. These pipes are in fact glassed with GRP on their whole outside surface, and then glassed with the hull and deck. No need to mention that they really need to be watertight and resistant to a shock. If you hit them with your hand, you will feel that they are strong.

There are other glassed PVC tubes in critical places such as the air vent pipe of the bow-thruster box and the one inside the dorade box of the engine room air exhaust circuit (they need to be watertight). 

The hawse pipe needs to be watertight too, and there is nothing like a glassing to do it right. However, the hawse pipe surroundings remain a wet area, and the possible damages from a leaking hawse pipe will not be very serious, except that it may bring water into the plywood floor, which will rot in the long run (as you all know).

Good luck Thomas.

Olivier



On Thursday, March 7, 2019, 1:09:20 AM GMT+1, Warren Traill <trailz@...> wrote:


Thanks Craig. 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Craig Briggs via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, 6 March 2019 11:55 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow locker floor replacement.....

 

Hi Warren,
Sorry, I don't recall the exact diameter but it was essentially the same as the original, to the closest US size I could find. It's not too critical since you're glassing in the new one so there's wiggle room. I only took "gee whiz" pictures of the old rotted out tube, but a picture of the finished job may not be very informative since it looks just like the old one (before it rusted out :-)
Best, Craig SN68 Sangaris 




Faux Teak and Deck Paint

Jose Venegas
 

Dear Amelian brother and sisters: 

What kind of paint has been used for the faux teak boards?  
Is there Awlgrip paint colors for the faux teak boards and for the rest of deck?  If not what paint/color has been used for them.When it gets a little warmer I would like to do both the faux teak boards and the stripes, and a year from now have the rest of the deck done.
Any suggestions?

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM2K #278.
Freezing in Boston harbor.


Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

Thomas Kleman
 
Edited

Craig- my upper flange will be water-tight and glued/glassed to the underside of the deck under the windlass. It fits tightly inside the pipe; thus a water-tight joint unless water can flow upwards. The pipe will run through the locker floor (which will be glassed both sides) and have a flange underneath the floor which it enters. The flange is slightly lower than the glassed floor. The area around the flange under the floor will be waterproof. 

I haven't started the project yet (tomorrow) but at this point I see no need to glass the outside of a thick piece of pvc which I might need to replace someday. It would not impact waterproofing unless the pipe wore through, thus validating my design criteria that ease of replacement is important.


Re: Marco UP6/E pump and MASS+

 

Scott,

Marco says, "No, we did not have a way to suggest wiring, the only option we have available is the PCS for the pump."

I believe that one of the wires inside the ethernet cable from the pump is probably energised when the pump is ON (RUNNING) and is not when the pump is OFF (NOT RUNNING).

If I am correct, connecting a RJ45 Female Ethernet receptacle to that ethernet male and choosing the correct wire will get you what we want. I am not suggesting that you experiment, but if I had bought the pump without the PCS, I would probably experiment with a voltmeter.
--
Best,
 
Bill Rouse
Yacht School  
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


Re: propeller Zinc

 

Alessandro,

The photo did not work. I am not sure why, but attached is a PDF

Best,

Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St.
Galveston, Texas 77550
832-380-4970



On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 8:33 AM CW Bill Rouse via Groups.Io <brouse=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Alessandro,

When your SM was new, it had no zinc on the propellor. It had a red plastic cap (see attached and look in your Amel Manual).

There are two sides of the issue "for and against zincs on the AutoProp." Henri Amel was against. AutoProp was initially for, now neutral. I am with Henri, but that does not make us right!

I attached a photo of a page from my book named "AutoProp Zinc." 

I believe this is a decision you should make after understanding both sides of the issue.

Best,

Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St.
Galveston, Texas 77550
832-380-4970



On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 7:59 PM Alessandro Gennai via Groups.Io <agennai=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi folks,
I'm happy owner of  Supermaramu 2000 redline  #443  ; someone could tell me the right zinc for the propeller
thank you
Alessandro
GRAND CRU #443


Re: propeller Zinc

 
Edited


Alessandro,

When your SM was new, it had no zinc on the propellor. It had a red plastic cap (see attached and look in your Amel Manual).

There are two sides of the issue "for and against zincs on the AutoProp." Henri Amel was against. AutoProp was initially for, now neutral. I am with Henri, but that does not make us right!

I attached a photo of a page from my book named "AutoProp Zinc." 

I believe this is a decision you should make after understanding both sides of the issue.

Best,

Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St.
Galveston, Texas 77550
832-380-4970



On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 7:59 PM Alessandro Gennai via Groups.Io <agennai=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi folks,
I'm happy owner of  Supermaramu 2000 redline  #443  ; someone could tell me the right zinc for the propeller
thank you
Alessandro
GRAND CRU #443


Re: Marco UP6/E pump and MASS+

 
Edited

Scott,

I understand that you are saying when the MASS switch is moved to "+"  (positive) the light turns ON.  Correct?

This means that there is a connection between 24VDC Positive and Bonding. When a pump is involved it is almost always because a pump seal has failed, allowing water to penetrate and cause a connection between bonding and positive 24VDC. (If the light comes ON when the switch is in the Negative position, the connection is between Negative and Bonding,). Saltwater creates a stronger connection than freshwater.

In your situation, most likely saltwater has probably caused this "connection" between bonding and 24VAC Positive. I think the first place that I would look very closely is the ethernet type connection between the pump and the optional electronic monitor (male & female). I believe you will find the fault there. Clean the connection(s) with freshwater, then alcohol.  Then next, I would open the pump electrical connections. What I would look for is salt crystals. Remember, these could be microscopic, especially with ethernet connections (male & female). Let me know what you find.

Regarding the function of the 24V panel light, Marco owes me an explanation. I asked for this some time ago. I will email them again today and will post the answer to the group.



Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019, 8:41 PM Scott Nguyen <scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Bill,

Slight typo - I had a small leak from the waterMAKER hoses so some salt water got on the Marco pump.

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 10:32 PM Scott Nguyen <scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Bill,

As you now, I'm using the Marco UP6/E pump for domestic water and have been doing so for almost 6 months now. I regularly check the Mass- and Mass+ switch on my A54 to ensure no electrical leaks.

This evening, I checked and got a Mass+ light, clear and bright. Luckily, I was able to quickly isolate it by turning off the freshwater water pump on the 24v circuit breaker panel. 

As you may recall, we had some issues with the smart sensor positive lead (between smart sensor and pump itself) keeping the 24v panel freshwater pump light on permanently. We couldn't figure it out so I just moved on and dealt with the 24v panel freshwater pump light being on all the time. To test to see if this was causing the Mass+ fault, I cut the wire. The 24v panel freshwater pump light obviously is no longer on, but the Mass+ light remained.

The only way I could get rid of the Mass+ light was remove the bonding wire from the pump body. Do you know what may cause the Marco pump to all of the sudden create continuity between + and the pump body? 

I had a small leak from the waterpump hoses so some salt water got on the Marco pump, but I can't imagine that causes the pump to be + energized? 

What would you do in my position? Thanks!

-Scott


Re: Marco UP6/E pump and MASS+ light

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

Scott,

Salt water is almost certainly the cause for a short circuit between the pumps electrical supply and the case and hence the bonding system. The other, less likely, possibility is accumulation of carbon dust from worn brushes. 

The solution is to disassemble the motor, clean with fresh water, dry, spray with CorrosionX, and reassemble. 

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Mayaguana, Bahamas


Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

Craig Briggs
 

OF COURSE !!!!    DUH !!!! WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT!!!!!
Great quiz, Olivier, with the most obvious answer that none of us came up with!

Cheers, Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris


Re: propeller Zinc

Mark Erdos
 

If you have the AutoProp H6 then this is correct: https://www.boatzincs.com/autoprop_specs_H6.html

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Santa Marta, Colombia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alessandro Gennai via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 10:00 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] propeller Zinc

 

Hi folks,
I'm happy owner of  Supermaramu 2000 redline  #443  ; someone could tell me the right zinc for the propeller
thank you
Alessandro
GRAND CRU #443


Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

Beaute Olivier
 

Hi everybody,

the two master pieces made of PVC tube glassed to the hull and deck are the cockpit drains. These pipes are in fact glassed with GRP on their whole outside surface, and then glassed with the hull and deck. No need to mention that they really need to be watertight and resistant to a shock. If you hit them with your hand, you will feel that they are strong.

There are other glassed PVC tubes in critical places such as the air vent pipe of the bow-thruster box and the one inside the dorade box of the engine room air exhaust circuit (they need to be watertight). 

The hawse pipe needs to be watertight too, and there is nothing like a glassing to do it right. However, the hawse pipe surroundings remain a wet area, and the possible damages from a leaking hawse pipe will not be very serious, except that it may bring water into the plywood floor, which will rot in the long run (as you all know).

Good luck Thomas.

Olivier



On Thursday, March 7, 2019, 1:09:20 AM GMT+1, Warren Traill <trailz@...> wrote:


Thanks Craig.

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Craig Briggs via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, 6 March 2019 11:55 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow locker floor replacement.....

 

Hi Warren,
Sorry, I don't recall the exact diameter but it was essentially the same as the original, to the closest US size I could find. It's not too critical since you're glassing in the new one so there's wiggle room. I only took "gee whiz" pictures of the old rotted out tube, but a picture of the finished job may not be very informative since it looks just like the old one (before it rusted out :-)
Best, Craig SN68 Sangaris


Marco UP6/E pump and MASS+ light

Scott SV Tengah
 

Hi all,

I've been using the Marco UP6/E pump for domestic water for almost 6 months now. I've been quite happy with it. I regularly check the Mass- and Mass+ switch on my A54 to ensure no electrical leaks.
 
This evening, I checked and got a Mass+ light, clear and bright. Luckily, I was able to quickly isolate it by turning off the freshwater water pump on the 24v circuit breaker panel. The only way I could get rid of the Mass+ light was remove the bonding wire from the pump body. Do you know what may cause the Marco pump to all of the sudden create continuity between + and the pump body? 
 
I had a small leak from the watermaker hoses so some salt water got on the Marco pump, but could that cause a short somewhere and cause the pump body to be + energized? 

As an aside, had some issues with the smart sensor positive lead (between smart pressure sensor and pump itself) keeping the Amel 24v panel freshwater pump light on permanently. We couldn't figure it out so I just moved on and dealt with the 24v panel freshwater pump light being on all the time. Has anyone else using the Marco pumps figured out how to wire this so the Amel 24v panel light only comes on when the pump is being operated? Also, to test to see if this was causing the Mass+ fault, I cut the wire. The 24v panel freshwater pump light obviously is no longer on, but the Mass+ light remained.

Any thoughts on the Mass+ light or getting the Amel 24V panel freshwater pump light to work properly with this pump would be appreciated!

-Scott
A54 #69 Tengah


propeller Zinc

Alessandro Gennai <agennai@...>
 

Hi folks,
I'm happy owner of  Supermaramu 2000 redline  #443  ; someone could tell me the right zinc for the propeller
thank you
Alessandro
GRAND CRU #443