On Apr 27, 2019, at 5:06 PM, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

Remarkably, our chain counter and display still work after 20 years. Albeit it only counts upward even if the chain is coming in. Easy to work through: put out 30 meters of chain and then count to 60 meters when hoisting the anchor.

In anticipation of all this failing one day while we are in the middle of nowhere without parts, we marked the chain at 25’, 50’, 100’, 150’ 200’ and 250’

 

We use colored rope and colored wire ties. The ties actually work better as I can see them go over the windless from the helm. We are doing an experiment to see which last longer.

 

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - San Blas Islands, Panama

www.creampuff.us

 

 

On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 at 1:05 am, Thomas Peacock

<peacock8491@...> wrote:

Thanks to Ian, Seckin, Kelly and Ryan for your thoughts. I feel like I could declare Chain Counters as a thesis topic towards a PhD after the number of hours I have spent on this. I never considered myself obsessive before sailing this boat, it seems to be bringing that out in me. 

I’m not certain how many SM’s have a similar counter, our #240 was right on the cusp between SM and SM 2000, with features of both. It seems to be a LaRochelle designed counter, as the digital display has the Amel logo on it.

 

As mentioned, there are four cables coming into the junction box above the sink:

 

A 12.5 volts power from the Sailor 24V->12V transformer, two wires, straightforward power and ground; its sole function is power

 

A 24 volts power cable from the windlass control in the cockpit, three wires, one always 24 V, one ground, and one that is 24 V only when the windlass is activated; those wires then go to a block of three relays, which do something, I suspect in part activate the 12V part of the chain counter system, also perhaps convert the rotation of the windlass into meters

 

A three wire cable going forward to the windlass, one with 12.5 volts power, one ground, and the other one being a green signal wire with 11.75 volts power (derived from the display cable)

 

A four wire cable going to the digital display, one with 12.5 volts feeding off the power cable, one with 11.75 volts returning from the display (which feeds power to the green signal wire going to the windlass), the other two being used for signal

 

As mentioned, I have replaced the original sensor (IB5076, made by IFM, no longer in production), with one that is TOTALLY identical in all specs, IB5072, except for the fact that it is normally open. The 5076 was normally closed. These are heavy duty inductive sensors, just detecting proximity to conductive metal, no magnet necessary. They are structurally robust, designed for use in pickle factories! It’s a German company, and the Germans do love their pickles. There is an LED on the unit that will indicate that it is sensing.

 

When the sensor detects a conducting metal, it sends out about 0.7 volts, not sure how many milliamps. With the background voltage in the green signal wire of 11.75 volts, the voltage then rises to 12.5 volts. 

 

All that said, when running the windlass I could never get the chain counter display to change from “00”. I was able to change the sensor output from normally open to normally closed with a relay, again without any success on the counter.

 

After my therapist advised me to take a break from the chain counter obsession, I then went on to rebuild the windlass, which is now completely disassembled. Nevertheless, I returned to the chain counter problem, hooking up the sensor directly to the wires above the sink. I used a steel box cutter knife to act as a target for the sensor, ran the windlass switch (even though no windlass), et voilà!!! The display ticks off once for every three times I pass the knife in front of the sensor, I assume three revolutions of the windlass equals one meter. That was without having to change the open/closed status with a relay.

 

So, the system does now work, not sure why it didn’t work with the actual windlass. A little more trouble-shooting ahead when I get the windlass back on deck. Seckin, and anyone else who is having problems, feel free to contact me off forum if needs be, I’m happy to help. 

 

Tom Peacock

SM #240 Aletes

Rock Hall, Chesapeake Bay

 

I’m not certain how many SM’s have a similar counter, our #240 was right on the cusp between SM and SM 2000, with features of both. It seems to be a LaRochelle designed counter, as the digital display has the Amel logo on it.

 

As mentioned, there are four cables coming into the junction box above the sink:

 

A 12.5 volts power from the Sailor 24V->12V transformer, two wires, straightforward power and ground; its sole function is power

 

A 24 volts power cable from the windlass control in the cockpit, three wires, one always 24 V, one ground, and one that is 24 V only when the windlass is activated; those wires then go to a block of three relays, which do something, I suspect in part activate the 12V part of the chain counter system, also perhaps convert the rotation of the windlass into meters)

 

A three wire cable going forward to the windlass, one with 12.5 volts power, one ground, and the other one being a green signal wire with 11.75 volts power (derived from the display cable)

 

A four wire cable going to the digital display, one with 12.5 volts feeding off the power cable, one with 11.75 volts returning from the display (which feeds power to the green signal wire going to the windlass), the other two being used for signal

 

As mentioned, I have replaced the original sensor (IB5076, made by IFM, no longer in production), with one that is TOTALLY identical in all specs, IB5072, except for the fact that it is normally open. The 5076 was normally closed. These are heavy duty inductive sensors, just detecting proximity to conductive metal, no magnet necessary. They are structurally robust, designed for use in pickle factories! It’s a German company, and the Germans do love their pickles. There is an LED on the unit that will indicate that it is sensing.

 

When the sensor detects a conducting metal, it sends out about 0.7 volts, not sure how many milliamps. With the background voltage in the green signal wire of 11.75 volts, the voltage then rises to 12.5 volts. 

 

All that said, when running the windlass I could never get the chain counter display to change from “00”. I was able to change the sensor output from normally open to normally closed with a relay, again without any success on the counter.

 

After my therapist advised me to take a break from the chain counter obsession, I then went on to rebuild the windlass, which is now completely disassembled. Nevertheless, I returned to the chain counter problem, hooking up the sensor directly to the wires above the sink. I used a steel box cutter knife to act as a target for the sensor, ran the windlass switch (even though no windlass), et voilà!!! The display ticks off once for every three times I pass the knife in front of the sensor, I assume three revolutions of the windlass equals one meter. That was without having to change the open/closed status with a relay.

 

So, the system does now work, not sure why it didn’t work with the actual windlass. A little more trouble-shooting ahead when I get the windlass back on deck. Seckin, and anyone else who is having problems, feel free to contact me off forum if needs be, I’m happy to help. 

 

Tom Peacock

SM #240 Aletes

Rock Hall, Chesapeake Bay

I’m not certain how many SM’s have a similar counter, our #240 was right on the cusp between SM and SM 2000, with features of both. It seems to be a LaRochelle designed counter, as the digital display has the Amel logo on it.

 

As mentioned, there are four cables coming into the junction box above the sink:

 

A 12.5 volts power from the Sailor 24V->12V transformer, two wires, straightforward power and ground; its sole function is power

 

A 24 volts power cable from the windlass control in the cockpit, three wires, one always 24 V, one ground, and one that is 24 V only when the windlass is activated; those wires then go to a block of three relays, which do something, I suspect in part activate the 12V part of the chain counter system, also perhaps convert the rotation of the windlass into meters)

 

A three wire cable going forward to the windlass, one with 12.5 volts power, one ground, and the other one being a green signal wire with 11.75 volts power (derived from the display cable)

 

A four wire cable going to the digital display, one with 12.5 volts feeding off the power cable, one with 11.75 volts returning from the display (which feeds power to the green signal wire going to the windlass), the other two being used for signal

 

As mentioned, I have replaced the original sensor (IB5076, made by IFM, no longer in production), with one that is TOTALLY identical in all specs, IB5072, except for the fact that it is normally open. The 5076 was normally closed. These are heavy duty inductive sensors, just detecting proximity to conductive metal, no magnet necessary. They are structurally robust, designed for use in pickle factories! It’s a German company, and the Germans do love their pickles. There is an LED on the unit that will indicate that it is sensing.

 

When the sensor detects a conducting metal, it sends out about 0.7 volts, not sure how many milliamps. With the background voltage in the green signal wire of 11.75 volts, the voltage then rises to 12.5 volts. 

 

All that said, when running the windlass I could never get the chain counter display to change from “00”. I was able to change the sensor output from normally open to normally closed with a relay, again without any success on the counter.

 

After my therapist advised me to take a break from the chain counter obsession, I then went on to rebuild the windlass, which is now completely disassembled. Nevertheless, I returned to the chain counter problem, hooking up the sensor directly to the wires above the sink. I used a steel box cutter knife to act as a target for the sensor, ran the windlass switch (even though no windlass), et voilà!!! The display ticks off once for every three times I pass the knife in front of the sensor, I assume three revolutions of the windlass equals one meter. That was without having to change the open/closed status with a relay.

 

So, the system does now work, not sure why it didn’t work with the actual windlass. A little more trouble-shooting ahead when I get the windlass back on deck. Seckin, and anyone else who is having problems, feel free to contact me off forum if needs be, I’m happy to help. 

 

Tom Peacock

SM #240 Aletes

Rock Hall, Chesapeake Bay

 

 

 

 

On 28 April 2019 at 02:14 Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:

Hi Gary,

I am on BeBe at Red Frog Marina in Panama wit 60Hz shore power.  I just checked, with all the AC breakers off but  the main GFI on, and I have: 1)  120v from blue to yellow/green, as well as from brown to the yellow/green. 2) I show 0 volts AC accross the blue to brown contacts (I don't understand how you could measure 240 v across the Blue to brown when the motor is not running?). 3) when I turn of the main GFI breaker there is no voltage.    I did not test the generator.  

That is a shocking discovery!  It would be very interesting to get confirmation of the voltages from a boat on 50 Hz supply. 

One thought: Could the stray voltage be coming back from the capacitor.  It shows 0 across the Blue to brow because the voltage on the blue and brown are on the same cycle when there is only one 120v source?  To test this I disconnected the blue and brown wires and measured the voltage of these independently: Blue wire to yellow/green was 120v, Brown wire to yellow/green showed 39v (Stray voltage?).  The voltage across the Blue to Brown was 120v.

I'm surprised this has not come up before, as it creates a very unsafe condition for one assuming the circuit is de-energized.  My conclusion is to disconnect at the pedistal when working on the AC circuits to be safe.

Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM#387

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 9:37 PM Gary Silver via Groups.Io <garysilver= mac.com@groups.io wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi Bill and Eric:

Yes, all the 220 panel CBs are double pole (both Line [brown] and Neutral [Blue] are switched).  With all breakers open (tripped) there is still 240 VAC across the blue and brown leads at the Calpeda Pump when hooked to shore power, but not when the genset is running.  Looking at the Climma schematic (really more of a diagram) the neutral and safety ground wires are wire straight thru from the "separate source" and the Line [brown] from the separate source is switched by the relays to provide line voltage to the pump when a given unit is switched on. So I can see perhaps that there might be 110 voltage between the blue and safety ground at the pump from this "seperate source" but not the 220 that I am seeing.  Olivier, are you there?   What is the separate source for the Climma relay box?

I believe that the "other source" supply for the relay box is directly wired from the 220 volt buss just down-stream from the GFCI 30 amp breaker on the side of the 220 volt panel before it is distributed to any of the CBs (Diruptors).  The difference between Euro power and US power is noted and somehow plays into this.   Will continue to puzzle this out along with you.  Perhaps I need to get to sail to some European power, plug in and see if the mystery voltage goes away.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 # 335
Puerto Rico 

 

 

Dan,

I am a little lost as to where exactly you are measuring the voltage, but will generally respond.

Sounds to me like you could have 120v on the Earth wire (yellow/green) because you show zero between brown and blue. 

Causes:

• This could be caused by shore power cable/plug wired incorrectly. I have seen the Earth wire (yellow/green) connected to the center post of a USA plug rather than to the metal sleeve of the plug. 
• I have also seen marina pedestals wired wrong placing voltage on Earth wire (yellow/green) 
• I have also seen this happen when using a pedestal shared with another boat which is wired wrong. 

I would trace starting with the pedestal connection.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 12:14 PM Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:

Hi Gary,

I am on BeBe at Red Frog Marina in Panama wit 60Hz shore power.  I just checked, with all the AC breakers off but  the main GFI on, and I have: 1)  120v from blue to yellow/green, as well as from brown to the yellow/green. 2) I show 0 volts AC accross the blue to brown contacts (I don't understand how you could measure 240 v across the Blue to brown when the motor is not running?). 3) when I turn of the main GFI breaker there is no voltage.    I did not test the generator.  

That is a shocking discovery!  It would be very interesting to get confirmation of the voltages from a boat on 50 Hz supply. 

One thought: Could the stray voltage be coming back from the capacitor.  It shows 0 across the Blue to brow because the voltage on the blue and brown are on the same cycle when there is only one 120v source?  To test this I disconnected the blue and brown wires and measured the voltage of these independently: Blue wire to yellow/green was 120v, Brown wire to yellow/green showed 39v (Stray voltage?).  The voltage across the Blue to Brown was 120v.

I'm surprised this has not come up before, as it creates a very unsafe condition for one assuming the circuit is de-energized.  My conclusion is to disconnect at the pedistal when working on the AC circuits to be safe.

Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM#387

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 9:37 PM Gary Silver via Groups.Io <garysilver=mac.com@groups.io wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi Bill and Eric:

Yes, all the 220 panel CBs are double pole (both Line [brown] and Neutral [Blue] are switched).  With all breakers open (tripped) there is still 240 VAC across the blue and brown leads at the Calpeda Pump when hooked to shore power, but not when the genset is running.  Looking at the Climma schematic (really more of a diagram) the neutral and safety ground wires are wire straight thru from the "separate source" and the Line [brown] from the separate source is switched by the relays to provide line voltage to the pump when a given unit is switched on. So I can see perhaps that there might be 110 voltage between the blue and safety ground at the pump from this "seperate source" but not the 220 that I am seeing.  Olivier, are you there?   What is the separate source for the Climma relay box?

I believe that the "other source" supply for the relay box is directly wired from the 220 volt buss just down-stream from the GFCI 30 amp breaker on the side of the 220 volt panel before it is distributed to any of the CBs (Diruptors).  The difference between Euro power and US power is noted and somehow plays into this.   Will continue to puzzle this out along with you.  Perhaps I need to get to sail to some European power, plug in and see if the mystery voltage goes away.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 # 335
Puerto Rico 

Hi to the group,
After sailing the Bahamas I am on the way to the north. I will leave the boat for 2 months in Annapolis.Today we sailed from Fort Lauderdale to St. Augustine. Are there any recommendations for the next stops - Marina or Anchorage ?
Thank you very much Wolfgang SY Elise Amel 54 #162 

Alex - for what it is worth, here is the list of capacitors I received to replace those on my Climma Compact 9 units on my Super Maramu:

James

Soteria

SM2K #347

On Apr 24, 2019, at 7:00 PM, Alex Ramseyer <alexramseyer@...> wrote:

Hi James,
thanks for the response and YES, it would be helpful to have your invoice.
best regards,
Alex
--
Sent from my Android phone with GMX Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Am 24.04.19, 18:39, "James Cromie via Groups.Io" <jamescromie@...> schrieb:

Alex - I have replaced all of the fan and compressor capacitors for each of my Climma Compact 9 units and the capacitors for my Dessalator motors with capacitors available through Coastal Climate Control. To hey so provide a slight discount if you are a Bill Rouse client.  One or two capacitors are not available from them.  I sourced these from Eurton Electronics. All units work flawlessly, and others have used the same capacitors.  Prices are very reasonable able at Eurton. 

I can provide my invoice if so desired. 

Best,

James

Soteria SM2k #347

Culebra

On Apr 24, 2019 17:22, Alex Ramseyer <alexramseyer@...> wrote:

Dear Amelians,
I'm trying to source 2mf and 4 mf Capacitors for the onboard Climma A/C unit. I'm currently in Fort Lauderdale.
The technician from a local Climma representative told me it needs to be the original Italfarad- but has no stock.

What's the experience in this group. Does it really have to be Italfarad or will any other (available) capacitor with the correct specs work too?

Best regards,
Alex Ramseyer
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54 #15
--
Sent from my Android phone with GMX Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Thomas Peacock
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 7:29 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] SM Chain Counter Wiring

I am still trying to get my factory installed (SM #240) chain counter working. The old sensor by the windlass was indeed shorted out; I had to replace with a unit identical except for the fact that the old sensor was normally on, and the new sensor is normally off. I have managed to switch that configuration by inserting a relay in the circuit. 
Despite this, the counter is not yet working. The display unit in the cockpit does light up at "00", but I can't seem to get it to count. In sussing out the wiring, I opened up the junction box above the galley and looked at the connections. 
There are basically four cables: one for power (two wires), one that goes forward to the windlass (three wires), one that goes to the cockpit windlass controls (three wires), and one to the display. (four tiny wires) 
The display has four tiny wires: red, black, green, and blue. The red supplies power, the black is ground, and the green connects with the green wire coming back from the windlass that I believe is the "signal wire", that changes as the windlass rotates. What seems unusual is that the tiny green wire energizes the forward wire, regardless other input, all the time. My sense is that the entire green circuit should be without voltage unless the sensor sends a current. I am concerned that there might be short or other problem that is causing the tiny green wire from the display to carry current. 
I know this is an esoteric question, but if anyone has any feedback I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks as always,
Tom Peacock
SM #240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay