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Re: Mizzen Mast Access
eric freedman
Hi Gary, The wires in the Mizzen seem to get wrapped around each other. Upon inspection a few years ago I noticed that all the pull lines were in bad shape so I replaced them with dyneema. It is really cheap on EBay.
I am sure you have already tried this , however in case you did not did you try dropping a length of chain down the mast tied to a piece of thin dyneema?
If that doesn’t work , as a last resort, I would un-splice the radar scanner cable . Then I would use a strong messenger line attached to it for re-installation. Then I would remove the scanner cable. Just as a security backup also solder a piece of single strand 12 gauge wire to the end of the radar cable in case your pull rope breaks or disconnects. I would also cut a few wires off the splice to make the entry smaller. With the radar cable removed I think you will have room to pull the new cables. I had to replace the scanner cable and it was a bit of a project getting it to turn around the separator at the base of the mast. I use dishwashing soap when puling cables. I first pulled it from the hole in the side of the mizzen and then dropped it down into the aft head.
If possible I would also consider trying to make the hole that separates the two parts of the mast at its base larger..
Good news is that the new radar scanner by Raymarine is wireless if you want to change out your chartplotter. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gary Wells
OK, I am at an impasse with my mizzen mast. We haven't quite gotten to the arbitration stage yet, but we have a situation of a stubborn lack of cooperation. My trusty wind generator threw a blade a couple of months ago. Since it is a gen 1 Air-X (you know the one .. you can hear it several islands away!) I decided to have mercy on all my anchorage-mates and upgrade the generator to a quieter, more happy-hour-inducing model. The mount-up was simple enough; actually things fit together quite well with only a half-millimeter or so difference here and there requiring a bit of sanding and a Dremel. Then, it all fell apart .. from the top. The old Air-X was a self-regulated provider of 24VDC from the top of the mizzen straight through to the battery switch (via the ammeter and shutoff/idle switch) and it required only two wires (plus an 'earth' to the mast). . The new generator is a three-phase AC machine with a remote controller/convertor/regulator and it requires a three-wire drop to the box. Now 2x10Ga wire managed (barely) to fit down the mast, but the 3x10 won't. During the process of learning this, the technicians lost and then removed the original wire, then they tried pulling it by connecting it to a no-longer-in-use small coaxial cable, and that connection parted, and finally they used the remaining messenger line .. and broke it. Normally, it should not be hard to drop a new messenger, but hey have tried for 2 days and used several methods to no avail. There simply must be something blocking a passageway somewhere that they can't fish their way through.
I'm hoping someone might have a secret-handshake trick up their sleeve before we go to the next step; which is either to drill an access hole in the front of the mast and use the large forward channel (I hope it goes all the way without obstruction) or else we may have to unstep her and get it done that way .. although even that isn't a sure bet, I guess. This is a genuine "oh, it should take about 4 hours" job that has turned into 3 days of frustration for us as well as the technicians.
We are in Martinique, so I am presuming that when they say they are 'out of options' they truly are. I know they have consulted with other experts around here so I don't feel like I am working with un-knowledgeable technicians. BUT .. there is a vast amount of knowledge here so I am hoping to garner a couple of options/ideas. We definitely don't want to drill a second access hole in the top (cap) plate on the mizzen ... that could be a structural issue. I personally don;' want to drill through to the front of the mast, even thought this is a pretty good option, because even if the wire does come all the way down, there may be no way to silence it from banging around inside the larger passageway.
Gary W SM209 "Adagio" Le Marin, Marinique
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Re: Mizzen Mast Access
Gary,
When I had to run an additional cable for a new radar unit, it took a lot of finesse. Attaching the new wire to the older one and pulling it down the mast did not work. There is some sort of lip about 8-12” up the mast from the base. I assume you are pulling the wire using the access panel at the base of the mast on the port side. From this port access I manage to finesse the wire over the obstruction using a wire coat hanger to nudge it. Laying on the aft cabin top with a flashlight in my mouth I could work to see the end of the wire.
I would suggest dropping a new messenger line. I used a large magnetic nut on the end of this and a magnet to find it at the lower end. Even getting this past the obstruction is a pain. Make a really good connection/splice to the wire you want to pull down through the mast. Tie a couple of wire ties to the messenger line about one foot and again at two feet from the splice. This will serve as an indicator to the person at the bottom when the new wire is almost there. Grease the first 4’ of the new cable. Gently pull the messenger cable down through the access port looking for the wire ties to show. Once you see the second tie, you know you are almost there. It is at this time you need to use a stiff piece of wire such as a wire coat hanger to finesse the new cable. You will probably be able to see the end of it to help guide. It may help to have a second person up the mast to pull up a little bit if needed. It is not possible to pull the new wire with the messenger line past the obstruction using brute force. Ask me how I know this.
Once you have the new cable down, it is easy to poke it into the access area that houses the mainsheet electric winch (in the aft head (starboard side of the mirror).
Sorry, I do not remember the formation of the obstruction or how exactly I got around it. It just recall it being an real #$%@ to manage. I promise you, it can be done J
Hope this helps.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - San Blas Islands, Panama www.creampuff.us
From:
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Gary Wells
OK, I am at an impasse with my mizzen mast. We haven't quite gotten to the arbitration stage yet, but we have a situation of a stubborn lack of cooperation. My trusty wind generator threw a blade a couple of months ago. Since it is a gen 1 Air-X (you know the one .. you can hear it several islands away!) I decided to have mercy on all my anchorage-mates and upgrade the generator to a quieter, more happy-hour-inducing model. The mount-up was simple enough; actually things fit together quite well with only a half-millimeter or so difference here and there requiring a bit of sanding and a Dremel. Then, it all fell apart .. from the top. The old Air-X was a self-regulated provider of 24VDC from the top of the mizzen straight through to the battery switch (via the ammeter and shutoff/idle switch) and it required only two wires (plus an 'earth' to the mast). . The new generator is a three-phase AC machine with a remote controller/convertor/regulator and it requires a three-wire drop to the box. Now 2x10Ga wire managed (barely) to fit down the mast, but the 3x10 won't. During the process of learning this, the technicians lost and then removed the original wire, then they tried pulling it by connecting it to a no-longer-in-use small coaxial cable, and that connection parted, and finally they used the remaining messenger line .. and broke it. Normally, it should not be hard to drop a new messenger, but hey have tried for 2 days and used several methods to no avail. There simply must be something blocking a passageway somewhere that they can't fish their way through.
I'm hoping someone might have a secret-handshake trick up their sleeve before we go to the next step; which is either to drill an access hole in the front of the mast and use the large forward channel (I hope it goes all the way without obstruction) or else we may have to unstep her and get it done that way .. although even that isn't a sure bet, I guess. This is a genuine "oh, it should take about 4 hours" job that has turned into 3 days of frustration for us as well as the technicians.
We are in Martinique, so I am presuming that when they say they are 'out of options' they truly are. I know they have consulted with other experts around here so I don't feel like I am working with un-knowledgeable technicians. BUT .. there is a vast amount of knowledge here so I am hoping to garner a couple of options/ideas. We definitely don't want to drill a second access hole in the top (cap)
plate on the mizzen ... that could be a structural issue. I
personally don;' want to drill through to the front of the mast, even thought
this is a pretty good option, because even if the wire does come all the way
down, there may be no way to silence it from banging around inside the larger
passageway.
Gary W SM209 "Adagio" Le Marin, Marinique
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Mizzen Mast Access
OK, I am at an impasse with my mizzen mast. We haven't quite gotten to the arbitration stage yet, but we have a situation of a stubborn lack of cooperation. My trusty wind generator threw a blade a couple of months ago. Since it is a gen 1 Air-X (you know the one .. you can hear it several islands away!) I decided to have mercy on all my anchorage-mates and upgrade the generator to a quieter, more happy-hour-inducing model. The mount-up was simple enough; actually things fit together quite well with only a half-millimeter or so difference here and there requiring a bit of sanding and a Dremel. Then, it all fell apart .. from the top. The old Air-X was a self-regulated provider of 24VDC from the top of the mizzen straight through to the battery switch (via the ammeter and shutoff/idle switch) and it required only two wires (plus an 'earth' to the mast). . The new generator is a three-phase AC machine with a remote controller/convertor/regulator and it requires a three-wire drop to the box. Now 2x10Ga wire managed (barely) to fit down the mast, but the 3x10 won't. During the process of learning this, the technicians lost and then removed the original wire, then they tried pulling it by connecting it to a no-longer-in-use small coaxial cable, and that connection parted, and finally they used the remaining messenger line .. and broke it. Normally, it should not be hard to drop a new messenger, but hey have tried for 2 days and used several methods to no avail. There simply must be something blocking a passageway somewhere that they can't fish their way through.
I'm hoping someone might have a secret-handshake trick up their sleeve before we go to the next step; which is either to drill an access hole in the front of the mast and use the large forward channel (I hope it goes all the way without obstruction) or else we may have to unstep her and get it done that way .. although even that isn't a sure bet, I guess. This is a genuine "oh, it should take about 4 hours" job that has turned into 3 days of frustration for us as well as the technicians.
We are in Martinique, so I am presuming that when they say they are 'out of options' they truly are. I know they have consulted with other experts around here so I don't feel like I am working with un-knowledgeable technicians. BUT .. there is a vast amount of knowledge here so I am hoping to garner a couple of options/ideas. We definitely don't want to drill a second access hole in the top (cap) plate on the mizzen ... that could be a structural issue. I personally don;' want to drill through to the front of the mast, even thought this is a pretty good option, because even if the wire does come all the way down, there may be no way to silence it from banging around inside the larger passageway.
Gary W SM209 "Adagio" Le Marin, Marinique
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Re: Marco Pump stoppage
Duane Siegfri
Ok, got it.
Duane
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Re: SM Climma AC - Calpeda Pump Voltage with Breakers Off
Hi Bill and Eric:
Yes, all the 220 panel CBs are double pole (both Line [brown] and Neutral [Blue] are switched). With all breakers open (tripped) there is still 240 VAC across the blue and brown leads at the Calpeda Pump when hooked to shore power, but not when the genset is running. Looking at the Climma schematic (really more of a diagram) the neutral and safety ground wires are wire straight thru from the "separate source" and the Line [brown] from the separate source is switched by the relays to provide line voltage to the pump when a given unit is switched on. So I can see perhaps that there might be 110 voltage between the blue and safety ground at the pump from this "seperate source" but not the 220 that I am seeing. Olivier, are you there? What is the separate source for the Climma relay box? I believe that the "other source" supply for the relay box is directly wired from the 220 volt buss just down-stream from the GFCI 30 amp breaker on the side of the 220 volt panel before it is distributed to any of the CBs (Diruptors). The difference between Euro power and US power is noted and somehow plays into this. Will continue to puzzle this out along with you. Perhaps I need to get to sail to some European power, plug in and see if the mystery voltage goes away. Thanks for your thoughts. Gary S. Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM 2000 # 335 Puerto Rico
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Re: Marco Pump stoppage
Duane, The reset button is only on the electronic control module. Go back and read my email. Best, CW Bill Rouse 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 7:48 PM Duane Siegfri via Groups.Io <carlylelk=aol.com@groups.io> wrote: Thanks for the replies to Bill and Tony. Unfortunately my pump does not have a reset button...I don't see on in the manual either. Maybe the larger ones have one.
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Re: Marco Pump stoppage
Duane Siegfri
Thanks for the replies to Bill and Tony. Unfortunately my pump does not have a reset button...I don't see on in the manual either. Maybe the larger ones have one.
I'm going to check for blockages in the supply piping, but there was nothing in the gears. Duane
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Re: Marco Pump stoppage
Duane, If you have the electronic control module (which I strongly recommend to my clients), the following are the instructions you need. If you do not have the electronic control module, I believe you are not turning off the power long enough for a reset. Try turning the power off, opening a tap to bleed most of the pressure, then closing the tap, then turning the power ON. It should go into prime mode, then everything will be OK. If none of this works for you, contact Marco. Electronic Control for MARCO Pumps The following was written by Matteo from MARCO:
To address the problem of the automated start of the pump we have to understand in which case we are in, now: if you turn off the pump power supply at the boat panel, wait a few seconds and then turn on the power again, what happens? There should be only two cases: 1. The pump starts immediately, on the pump’s panel the “run” led turns on steady, as long as the power led, and it tries to prime 2. The pump does not start, the power led turns on (alone), everything is still.
If we are in case 1, it means that the pump is set to turn on automatically after a power or panel reset. If we are in case 2, it means that the pump waits for user input after a power or panel reset.
On a boat, you usually want to be in “case 1”, therefore, if the pump does not start automatically after a reset, you need to: 1. Turn off the pump power supply at the boat panel 2. While pressing the reset button, turn the power on at the boat panel 3. Wait until the red light flashes: it means the “automated start mode” has been toggled.
After this, nothing else is needed: the pump should start automatically. Repeating this procedure over and over will continue to toggle between these two modes, but you only want the “case 1” mode!
The pump stops after one minute and a half without water, because there’s a risk of warming the gears (and after that, burning the motor), and this helps protect them.
The “on/off” button is only needed if the pump starts during the night due to some leakage or pressure fluctuation and/or the absence of an expansion tank that levels out fluctuations… or some appliance that uses a little water every minute or so… It just inhibits temporarily the pump start after a pressure drop. If the run led blinks it means that if there’s a pressure drop, the pump starts. If the run led is off it means that the pump won’t start if the pressure drops, unless you press the on/off button. If the run led is on, it means that the motor is rotating; therefore you should expect water from the taps (if primed correctly).
Hope this clears some of the features of the control panel of the pump.
On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 6:25 PM CW Bill Rouse via Groups.Io <brouse=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: Marco Pump stoppage
I will post the reset instructions by tomorrow. Best, CW Bill Rouse 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 4:14 PM Duane Siegfri via Groups.Io <carlylelk=aol.com@groups.io> wrote: I have a Marco UP3E pump that is not working and would love some advice on any other things to check.
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Re: SM Climma AC - Calpeda Pump Voltage with Breakers Off
eric freedman
Bill, I will be on Kimberlite next week and check. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Not sure. I also don't remember any blue wires on those breakers. Best,
On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 3:42 PM eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:
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Re: Marco Pump stoppage
tony wells
Hi Duane I had a similar situation with my Marco. The following is the advice from Marco’s engineer. The scenario / process was omitted from my manual in error and has now been included by Marco. ====
I’m not sure you have the same software / setup but assuming you do then I trust this will work. If there is air in the system then the pump may have a small bleed screw (Allen key - tighten it again VERY gently when the pump starts drawing water) Good luck. I have the Marco engineers private mobile if you still need it. Tony Amel 54, Balthazar Levkas, Greece
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Re: SM Climma AC - Calpeda Pump Voltage with Breakers Off
Not sure. I also don't remember any blue wires on those breakers. Best, CW Bill Rouse 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 3:42 PM eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:
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Marco Pump stoppage
Duane Siegfri
I have a Marco UP3E pump that is not working and would love some advice on any other things to check.
Symptons: The pump stopped working while it was being used (wife was in the shower!) When I turn the breaker off, then on, all the lights start blinking (blue, red and green), then only the green/yellow light stays on (steady, not blinking). I'm thinking it's yellow, but it could be green. There is plenty of water in the tank. I have checked: 1. That there is no foreign matter between the gears or in the gearcase. 2. That the pump has proper DC voltage available. 3. That there is no air blockage by easing the bleed screw. The manual states that the brushes have a life of 1,000 hours. The pump is about 1.5 years old, so we would have to run it about 2 hours a day. That seems unlikely but the brushes seem to be the most logical thing to have failed. The manual states: When the LED is green and blinking it means that the pump is in "stand by" mode at the maximum preset pressure waiting for water demand. When the LED is green and steady, the pump is increasing the flow in order to reach the preset pressure and meet the demand flow rate. When the LED is yellow and steady, the pump has reached the pre-set pressure and is steadying the flow rate to maintain a constant pressure on the pipe line. A short flickering of the red LED is showing that the pump is gradually decreasing the flow in order to reduce the pressure to the pre-set value. I
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Re: SM Climma AC - Calpeda Pump Voltage with Breakers Off
eric freedman
Hi Bill, I do not remember 100% however , aren't the 220 volt Amel breakers double pole? Fair Winds, Eric
On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 01:07 PM, CW Bill Rouse wrote:
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Re: New Engine alignment in a SM
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Graeme, I cannot give details as to model of vetus mounts to use, however you need to know that the Amel system of mounting the engine on the angle iron frames with the mounts under this allowed the use of mounts with a significantly lower weight specification than would be used usually when the mounts are directly attached to the motor. If others do not come in on this when next on my boat I can look at my spare and give you the part number. The SM 2000 had the Volvo TMD 22 or the equivalent Yanmar fitted so that is the weight comparison you need to use. The Volvo D2 75 I replaced the TMD with is lighter. If your new engine is heavier than the two Amel options this will obviously need to be taken into consideration. Regards Danny Ocean Pearl SM 299
On 19 April 2019 at 23:45 "Graham Boyd via Groups.Io" <crwggb@...> wrote:
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Re: Changing engine bearings Amel Mango Perkins 4.236
James Alton
Frederic,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
My Amel is a Maramu but the mounts look like they are the same as yours. On my boat the center rubber mount is fastened with a nut and peening. The center rubber mount has a stud protruding on one end and this passes through a hole in the bottom of the steel mount as shown in the photo below: My engine bed was drilled to make room for the nut on the bottom of the steel mount. This is the top part of the steel mount and the center rubber mount. Best of luck with your project, James
On Apr 18, 2019, at 5:29 PM, Frederic F <fgf@...> wrote:
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Re: Guests and engine controls!
Hi Miles,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Yes an alternator shop can replace the diodes. Interestingly last year I had a problem with the 175A 24v alternator on my boat. I thought it was diode trouble and others thought it was an excitation issue. Long and short of it, is that it was checked by Reece Neville agent engineer in the UK who said that it was in fact the voltage regulator and that given the age of the unit (12 years) it was not really cost effective to service. I had already bought a new one and was thinking to have it a spare. I did not bother in the end as I am pretty well backed up; solar, wind, AC generator and two AC battery chargers. Alternators are incredibly reliable. Nick Amelia Amel 54-019 La Palma
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Re: SM Climma AC - Calpeda Pump Voltage with Breakers Off
Eric, Exactly, and that is why there is 115 volts via black USA to blue EU still ON at the Calpeda pump when the AC breaker (brown load) is OFF. Best, CW Bill Rouse 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 11:54 AM eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:
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Re: SM Climma AC - Calpeda Pump Voltage with Breakers Off
eric freedman
Hi Bill, At a USA the pedestal is wired (50 Amp) red, white , black, and green. For the purposes of an Amel , the white (neutral is not used on a 50 amp plug.
The black and red are both hot and are connected to the blue and brown in the Amel system The green ground is connected to the green yellow, which is connected to the AC and the bonding on the boat.
The ground green should be the same as a white (Neutral) leg on the USA circuit. Therefore between the green or brown and the green yellow, you should read 110 volts. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
If my memory is correct, I have your answer.
On USA grid there is a leg of 115VAC on the Load and another leg of 115VAC on the Return. The color of the Load is Brown and the color of Return/Neutral is Blue. From memory, I believe that the 220VAC breaker only switches OFF the Load, leaving 115VAC on the Return (Blue). Of course the case is connected to Earth.
On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 5:21 PM Gary Silver via Groups.Io <garysilver=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: Guests and engine controls!
smiles bernard
Thanks Nick
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
My voltage across service and start batteries is 14+V when the motor is on so I therefore presume that means the 2 alternators are still working ok and I managed to avoid diode damage 🤞 Out of interest I presume a alternator shop can replace these diodes reasonably easily if there ever were damaged ? It’s amazing how many things you take for granted around the working of the boat - that you only really discover when sailing with guests 😐 Thanks to all Miles
On 19 Apr 2019, at 08:54, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
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