Date   

Re: Mainsail jammed when furling on A54

Arno Luijten
 

On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 11:00 AM, CW Bill Rouse wrote:
Of course, if you are using your Amel to race, go for it.
Too funny! 😂


Re: Mainsail jammed when furling on A54

 

My guess is that when you inspect the battens you will find some permanently twisted and possibly cracked. BTW, I am totally 100% against battens, and they will be most dangerous when you really get into trouble and have to furl because of bad conditions. 

I believe that if you must have battens that you very carefully and correctly furl and unfurl each time, that you never get yourself in emergency conditions, and that you inspect the battens at least annually then replace any batten that is found twisted or cracked. 

Did I say that I am against battens for an Amel being used as a cruising boat? Of course, if you are using your Amel to race, go for it.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 8:04 AM Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi David it the problem is occuring only when slightly off the wind try pointing into the wind before furling that may help.  I've had similar issues with both the main and mizzen it seems to come and go keeping the sheet tight helps pull down the boom keeping the sail vertically tight while furling I think this helps also
Cheers
Courtney
Trippin
54#101


-----Original Message-----
From: David Crisp <david@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2020 8:50 am
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Mainsail jammed when furling on A54

All,

It's confession time and a request for advice/tips.

A week ago, for the first time ever I managed to jam the mainsail when furling it (somewhere around the first batten).  It was impossible to free the sail there and then but fortunately I was able to find shelter nearby, anchor, go up the mast and work it loose by hand.  At the time I put this down to lack of attention and over confidence and cursed myself. 
Two days later after a good sail upwind (15-20kts apparent), I started furling the main, this time watching VERY carefully, I saw creases appearing around the first batten so unfurled and tried again with the same result.  Being really nervous of a repeat episode I unfurled and carried on sailing and finally furled, without a problem, when in sheltered water. In all cases I was going upwind, maybe 10-30deg off the wind.

I'll confess this incident has been a big knock to my confidence, having a jammed, partly furled main in heavy weather is a worrying thought. I previously had a Super Maramu and never once experienced any problem like this, not even a hint of it.  Is the critical difference the vertical battens in the 54's main? 
Does anyone else have experience like this, more importantly can anyone offer advice/tips on furling the main on an A54 please.

--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


Re: Mainsail jammed when furling on A54

karkauai
 

Hi David,
In Kristy, an SM, I also have vertical battens. The angle of the boom is critical, on Kristy it has to be close to 90d. You'll have to find WilnaGrace's sweet spot.  I always stand in the companionway where I can look up the mast and watch the sail roll in.  Go straight into the wind.  Keep some slight tension on the outhaul. There will be some creases in the lower half of the sail that have gotten a little more pronounced as my sails have stretched over the last 10 yrs. As long as the battens go in vertically with slight tension on the outhaul, she rolls in fine.

I guess if your sail is getting old it could be stretched enough to make it more finicky.

You'll figure it out, go slow and don't fret. When you've found the sweet spot it will be easy.

Be safe, Have Fun, Sail Fast!
Kent
SM 243
Kristy
Harbor Island Maine


On Aug 24, 2020 8:50 AM, David Crisp <david@...> wrote:
All,

It's confession time and a request for advice/tips.

A week ago, for the first time ever I managed to jam the mainsail when furling it (somewhere around the first batten).  It was impossible to free the sail there and then but fortunately I was able to find shelter nearby, anchor, go up the mast and work it loose by hand.  At the time I put this down to lack of attention and over confidence and cursed myself. 
Two days later after a good sail upwind (15-20kts apparent), I started furling the main, this time watching VERY carefully, I saw creases appearing around the first batten so unfurled and tried again with the same result.  Being really nervous of a repeat episode I unfurled and carried on sailing and finally furled, without a problem, when in sheltered water. In all cases I was going upwind, maybe 10-30deg off the wind.

I'll confess this incident has been a big knock to my confidence, having a jammed, partly furled main in heavy weather is a worrying thought. I previously had a Super Maramu and never once experienced any problem like this, not even a hint of it.  Is the critical difference the vertical battens in the 54's main? 
Does anyone else have experience like this, more importantly can anyone offer advice/tips on furling the main on an A54 please.

--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


Re: Running back stays on A54

Courtney Gorman
 

Hi David I have a triangular loop at the base of one of my supports for the safety rail about halfway between the small winch and the stern where I hook the pulley then run it to the winch as you have.
What you have done will definitely work 
Cheers
Courtney


-----Original Message-----
From: David Crisp <david@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2020 9:05 am
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Running back stays on A54

Having previously had a Super Maramu one of the attractions of getting an A54 was the staysail.  Unfortunately I can't find any information on the correct way to rig the running back stays. What information there is is for an A55, which from what I can see, has a different deck layout to a A54. Below is a photo of the rig I've devised using some blocks with soft shackles left by the previous owner which seem perfect for the job.  I've attached the block to the mooring cleat on the assumption the loops at the base of the stanchion may not be man enough.

Any comments/suggestions from experienced A54 owners?



--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


Running back stays on A54

David Crisp
 

Having previously had a Super Maramu one of the attractions of getting an A54 was the staysail.  Unfortunately I can't find any information on the correct way to rig the running back stays. What information there is is for an A55, which from what I can see, has a different deck layout to a A54. Below is a photo of the rig I've devised using some blocks with soft shackles left by the previous owner which seem perfect for the job.  I've attached the block to the mooring cleat on the assumption the loops at the base of the stanchion may not be man enough.

Any comments/suggestions from experienced A54 owners?



--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


Re: Mainsail jammed when furling on A54

Courtney Gorman
 

Hi David it the problem is occuring only when slightly off the wind try pointing into the wind before furling that may help.  I've had similar issues with both the main and mizzen it seems to come and go keeping the sheet tight helps pull down the boom keeping the sail vertically tight while furling I think this helps also
Cheers
Courtney
Trippin
54#101


-----Original Message-----
From: David Crisp <david@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2020 8:50 am
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Mainsail jammed when furling on A54

All,

It's confession time and a request for advice/tips.

A week ago, for the first time ever I managed to jam the mainsail when furling it (somewhere around the first batten).  It was impossible to free the sail there and then but fortunately I was able to find shelter nearby, anchor, go up the mast and work it loose by hand.  At the time I put this down to lack of attention and over confidence and cursed myself. 
Two days later after a good sail upwind (15-20kts apparent), I started furling the main, this time watching VERY carefully, I saw creases appearing around the first batten so unfurled and tried again with the same result.  Being really nervous of a repeat episode I unfurled and carried on sailing and finally furled, without a problem, when in sheltered water. In all cases I was going upwind, maybe 10-30deg off the wind.

I'll confess this incident has been a big knock to my confidence, having a jammed, partly furled main in heavy weather is a worrying thought. I previously had a Super Maramu and never once experienced any problem like this, not even a hint of it.  Is the critical difference the vertical battens in the 54's main? 
Does anyone else have experience like this, more importantly can anyone offer advice/tips on furling the main on an A54 please.

--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


Mainsail jammed when furling on A54

David Crisp
 

All,

It's confession time and a request for advice/tips.

A week ago, for the first time ever I managed to jam the mainsail when furling it (somewhere around the first batten).  It was impossible to free the sail there and then but fortunately I was able to find shelter nearby, anchor, go up the mast and work it loose by hand.  At the time I put this down to lack of attention and over confidence and cursed myself. 
Two days later after a good sail upwind (15-20kts apparent), I started furling the main, this time watching VERY carefully, I saw creases appearing around the first batten so unfurled and tried again with the same result.  Being really nervous of a repeat episode I unfurled and carried on sailing and finally furled, without a problem, when in sheltered water. In all cases I was going upwind, maybe 10-30deg off the wind.

I'll confess this incident has been a big knock to my confidence, having a jammed, partly furled main in heavy weather is a worrying thought. I previously had a Super Maramu and never once experienced any problem like this, not even a hint of it.  Is the critical difference the vertical battens in the 54's main? 
Does anyone else have experience like this, more importantly can anyone offer advice/tips on furling the main on an A54 please.

--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


Re: Output on SM

Jarek Zemlo
 

Alexander Hi,
I had similar and it was from an additional GPS from GARMIN.
Best regards

Jarek Zemlo
S/Y NOA BLUE
SM #201


Re: A question to the hive mind re Amel 54 (Sleipner side power) Bow thruster capacitor please.

Porter McRoberts
 

We stored the boat. For longer than intended  BT down so as to allow access to change the zincs etc. covid... delays. Boat returns to water. BT working.  Delivery skippers sail boat to delivery ship. Local captain helps put ibis on ship can’t get BT back up. We get IBIs off ship in Tahiti. BT stored in partially up/down position. The thruster wasn’t working. Up down or side to side. Replace fuse and up down good. Get into motor and commuter with baked on graphite and dust. Brushes swollen from heat. I think the loading captain worked the hell out of the motor with heavy winds. Polished commuter, trimmed up brushes. Corrosion Xed.  Then broke mystery wire... at last step. BT works like a champ. (Without mystery wire) No spark, after reseating brushes minimal dust. 

My suspicion is mystery wire is a heat sensor, with an additional connection (long disconnected) from the relays as wires are a jumble entering and exiting an Audi brand additional relay used really as a junction box. 

It’s a simple machine made heartily complex. 
I’ll see what the locals say and continue to gently test it. Thanks for your and everyone’s input. 

Porter



Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS 
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Aug 23, 2020, at 8:57 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:


Porter, I replaced my Sidepower after the commutator cracked and it started eating brushes ($$$$$$).

Note that the Sleipner that Amel installed in my A54 (#69) has been superceded by another model. The solenoids are moved to the forward facing, referenced to your A54, side of the bowthruster. I am not sure if they updated the thermal sensor too. As an aside, if you ever need to replace your motor, you'll have to cut out a bit of the bow locker floor and also use some wood "shims" to push the bowthruster cover / stairs towards the front of the boat to accommodate the new solenoid location.

I've had a few outfits look at our NEW bowthruster because it was having intermittent issues. They cost me a lot of money and couldn't figure it out. Brad at IMTRA is generally quite helpful and their techs will give you step by step instructions. If you want to test yourself, try this: https://seatronic.no/productattachments/index/download?id=1080

You can bypass a lot of the sensors, including the thermal switch. That way, you at least isolate exactly what is wrong. FYI in our case, for the intermittently functioning NEW Sleipner, it turned out to be the tiniest bit of corrosion on the connectors between the big/long relay box and the solenoids. I'd suggest corrosion-x or silicone grease on those contacts.

On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 8:32 AM Porter McRoberts via groups.io <portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Mark. Thank you. 
Interestingly. The US contingent got back to me. They suggested the part was a heat sensor and sent a photo. The photo they sent was similar to what I have, but suffered in that it had an additional wire connection that then fed back to a relay. The part they showed me we do not have. 

I like safety features, however this scenario like engines, I’d rather ruin an engine saving the ship than ruin the ship saving an engine. 

I use the thruster when I can’t maneuver with the rudder and as sparingly as possible. 

There evidently is a sidepower outfit here in Tahiti. I’m going to ask them to have a look, if covid doesn’t stop us!  

Thanks again

Porter
A54-152



Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS 
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206

On Aug 23, 2020, at 5:08 AM, Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> wrote:

Very recently I had an opportunity to get familiar with our Sleipner bow thruster.  No such part was in the unit.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: A question to the hive mind re Amel 54 (Sleipner side power) Bow thruster capacitor please.

Scott SV Tengah
 

Porter, I replaced my Sidepower after the commutator cracked and it started eating brushes ($$$$$$).

Note that the Sleipner that Amel installed in my A54 (#69) has been superceded by another model. The solenoids are moved to the forward facing, referenced to your A54, side of the bowthruster. I am not sure if they updated the thermal sensor too. As an aside, if you ever need to replace your motor, you'll have to cut out a bit of the bow locker floor and also use some wood "shims" to push the bowthruster cover / stairs towards the front of the boat to accommodate the new solenoid location.

I've had a few outfits look at our NEW bowthruster because it was having intermittent issues. They cost me a lot of money and couldn't figure it out. Brad at IMTRA is generally quite helpful and their techs will give you step by step instructions. If you want to test yourself, try this: https://seatronic.no/productattachments/index/download?id=1080

You can bypass a lot of the sensors, including the thermal switch. That way, you at least isolate exactly what is wrong. FYI in our case, for the intermittently functioning NEW Sleipner, it turned out to be the tiniest bit of corrosion on the connectors between the big/long relay box and the solenoids. I'd suggest corrosion-x or silicone grease on those contacts.

On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 8:32 AM Porter McRoberts via groups.io <portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Mark. Thank you. 
Interestingly. The US contingent got back to me. They suggested the part was a heat sensor and sent a photo. The photo they sent was similar to what I have, but suffered in that it had an additional wire connection that then fed back to a relay. The part they showed me we do not have. 

I like safety features, however this scenario like engines, I’d rather ruin an engine saving the ship than ruin the ship saving an engine. 

I use the thruster when I can’t maneuver with the rudder and as sparingly as possible. 

There evidently is a sidepower outfit here in Tahiti. I’m going to ask them to have a look, if covid doesn’t stop us!  

Thanks again

Porter
A54-152



Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS 
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206

On Aug 23, 2020, at 5:08 AM, Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> wrote:

Very recently I had an opportunity to get familiar with our Sleipner bow thruster.  No such part was in the unit.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Volker, have you factored in the instalation cost of the new engine. This can be as high as the shelf price of the engine. 

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 23 August 2020 at 23:21 Volker <Puchta@...> wrote:

The Perkins M50 has run 4300 hours. It start still good on the first click, but creates some oil smoke and he oil consumption is at about 1 liter per 100 hours.
A complete rebuilt would cost about 50% of an brand new engine. Could be an option, but if you one day decide to sell the boat this would not benefit the selling price.

Volker
Mickmoon, Sharki hull no 176


Re: A question to the hive mind re Amel 54 (Sleipner side power) Bow thruster capacitor please.

Porter McRoberts
 

Mark. Thank you. 
Interestingly. The US contingent got back to me. They suggested the part was a heat sensor and sent a photo. The photo they sent was similar to what I have, but suffered in that it had an additional wire connection that then fed back to a relay. The part they showed me we do not have. 

I like safety features, however this scenario like engines, I’d rather ruin an engine saving the ship than ruin the ship saving an engine. 

I use the thruster when I can’t maneuver with the rudder and as sparingly as possible. 

There evidently is a sidepower outfit here in Tahiti. I’m going to ask them to have a look, if covid doesn’t stop us!  

Thanks again

Porter
A54-152



Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS 
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Aug 23, 2020, at 5:08 AM, Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> wrote:

Very recently I had an opportunity to get familiar with our Sleipner bow thruster.  No such part was in the unit.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Denis Foster
 

Besides the pollution compliance the main advantage of electronic common rail is that the engine runs better even if under loaded which is quite common with modern sailboats that are often « overpowered ». The mechanical injection pump is tuned for around 70-80% load. At the 20% 30% load it is usually feeding to much fuel with the risk of glazing. Some mechanics advise running at near maximum load every ten hours for around 30minutes. AKA « Italian tuning ».

Envoyé de mon iPhone


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Denis Foster
 

Hello,

I agree about the more robust system is mechanical injection found on old engines or still made for the non recreational market.

Besides the pollution compliance the main advantage is that the engine runs better even if under loaded which is quite common with modern sailboats that are often « overpowered ». The mechanical injection pump is tuned for around 70-80% load. At the 20% 30% load it is usually feeding to much fuel with the risk of glazing. Some mechanics advise running at near maximum load every ten hours for around 30minutes. AKA « Italian tuning ».

Modern common rail doesn’t need that apparently anymore.

These electronic diesel injectors can be all electronic or hydraulic electronically regulated. Both are sensible to lightning strike.

Once a mechanical diesel has started it only needs clean fuel and air to work. Very robust and reliable.



Denis



Envoyé de mon iPhone


Re: Furling main on Amel 60

 

I believe one answer could be that Amel is moving to off-the-shelf devices, rather than Amel-engineered devices for many things. The following is a list of such moves that I have noticed:
Amel Bow Thruster to Side-Power
Amel Genoa Furler to Bamar to Reckmann to ProFurl
Amel-assembled Main outhaul and furling motor assembled to a gearbox to a one-piece motor assembly
Amel-made freshwater level to off-the-shelf tank tenders
Amel-made breaker panels to off-the-shelf panels

I am sure the list is much longer. I believe it makes perfect sense. Many of these devices were not available for Amel to purchase when Amel decided to include them in their boats, or at the very least, what was available did not satisfy Captain Amel. Thus the Amel made and/or engineered devices. Today we have a different situation with what is available. Also, I assume that Amel realizes that the ethical liability to maintain and supply parts and replacements for in-house engineered, assembled, or made devices require a sizeable investment. Bottom Line is I totally understand Amel's movement to off-the-shelf devices and components.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 9:45 AM Denis Foster <deniswfoster@...> wrote:
What I meant is that Selden has had for many years a Mainsail hydraulic furling and outhaul in the boom.

And now they are selling a synchronised electric system for mainsail furling. I understood it uses load measuring to adapt the outhaul to the in mast furling.

Denis

Envoyé de mon iPhone



Re: A question to the hive mind re Amel 54 (Sleipner side power) Bow thruster capacitor please.

Mark & Debbie Mueller
 

Very recently I had an opportunity to get familiar with our Sleipner bow thruster.  No such part was in the unit.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Matt Salatino
 

We have a D.3  110 also. Our previous boat had a Yanmar without Turbo our common rail. It was every bit as smooth and quiet as our D3. Never had a sensor issue. Clean fuel is all it needed. 
To me, there are so many complex systems on out boats, the simpler any one component, the better. 
We like the D3 so far, but we’re only up to the 250 hour service interval. 

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 23, 2020, at 3:43 PM, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Matt,

I'm not saying the mechanical injection is not preferable on a boat. But saying common rail was developed just to satisfy emission regulations is not true. It was obviously a added bonus that should be cared for if not for our children, but the efficiency, smoothness and power delivery of a modern common rail diesel is so much better then the classic stuff. Especially if you go into turbo-diesel territory.
So in a car its vastly preferably over the old technology. But I do agree, for a boat much less so. But keep in mind the following, there are still people that say a engine has no place on a sailing yacht and you should handle everything with your sails. I'm not one of them but my point is that what now is seen as normal used to be exotic and failure prone. Fact is that a huge number of boats use common rail now and it's not like they are all failing because of whatever.

My point is that when deciding for a new engine, look at the full package and decide on what you feel is important to you. I know there is one Yanmar engine where for many boats it is close to impossible to change the impeller as it sits on the other end of the engine. So if you are in the middle of wherever and need to change a failing impeller you will not be a happy camper. That does not make Yanmar a bad engine. They have a well deserved good reputation.

My own D3-110 has it flaws but I can't complain about the smoothness, efficiency and quietness of this engine. Thanks to being common rail.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Furling main on Amel 60

Denis Foster
 

What I meant is that Selden has had for many years a Mainsail hydraulic furling and outhaul in the boom.

And now they are selling a synchronised electric system for mainsail furling. I understood it uses load measuring to adapt the outhaul to the in mast furling.

Denis

Envoyé de mon iPhone


Re: Output on SM

Thomas Peacock
 

Hi Alexander,

That looks like a proprietary (maybe Garmin?) receptacle for the main electrical supply for a chart plotter. If your chartplotter doesn’t plug into it, then it may be of no use. But you can always use the hole for another receptacle.

There must be wires coming out of the back. I would assume two of them are 12 volt power, maybe others go to a NMEA network. Have you checked where they go?

Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay

On Aug 23, 2020, at 9:39 AM, Alexander Schenk via groups.io <schenkschierloh=me.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hello,

Having purchased our SM last year and due to COVID-restrictions we are getting to know our boat better (and working on our extensive worklist) with every day we have the possibility to be on board.

I am currently looking fror to find out how to use a plotter or other electronic device in the cockpit.

I have found the following


Anybody any idea what this might be used for (plotter?, computer?)

I have already tried to contact the previous owner but to no avail so far.

Thankful for any idea.

Best
Alexander

SY Antinea
#231




<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg>
--
Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay


Re: Furling main on Amel 60

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Denis,

Aha, so you are saying they are now using a hydraulic furling system for the main. Interesting as it seems the headsail furlers are still electric. I'm not sure if I like that added complexity.

Thanks for the info,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121