Date   

Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

Thomas Kleman
 

Day 1 of the bow locker floor replacement. I'm reminded of the elder Moltke's tenet that no plan survives first contact with the enemy. As I cut the port bow locker's floor out, the 3 inch lip I was leaving to later mount the new floor on completely separated (wood from the fiberglass). Now there is only a 3 inch thin fiberglass lip with no plywood underneath it. There was no structure holding the plywood up from underneath along the port side. It seems to have been glassed/supported from the top only. When water penetrated the wood the fiberglass broke away. When the time comes to install the new floor, I suppose I will need to create the lip I thought would still be in place......thoughts ? 


Re: propeller Zinc

Paul Stascavage
 

When we purchased RK she was equipped with the zinc on the auto prop and the bonding system was tested and intact. A short time after moving aboard, I noticed the main bonding wire had become detached from the rudder post and I corrected this immediately. We hauled for paint no too long afterwards and I was glad we had that zinc on the prop. Approximately 25 percent was gone.

I have no idea how long that bonding wire was disconnected but I don’t think it could have been much more than a couple months. In my opinion I think the prop zinc is a good backup for ‘just in case’ situations.

All the Best,

Paul Stascavage
S/V Rita Kathryn SM #466

RitaKathryn.com

Currently Cruising Bahamas


Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

James Alton
 

Thomas,

     PVC could work but I was envisioning using a more slippery plastic than PVC for the sacrificial plastic bushing.  Perhaps Nylon?  I would suggest shaping the part without any square edges for the chain to catch on with a good size flange that would rest on the bottom face of the anchor locker.  It may be difficult to find anything that fits the ID of your PVC pipe since things are generally sized to fit the outside of PVC pipe, hence this would probably be a custom part turned on a lathe.  The good news is that you could probably install the bushing at a later date giving you time to find or have something made and shipped to you which  could save you that bone jarring ride.  

Best of luck,

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 8, 2019, at 7:02 AM, Thomas Kleman <lorient422@...> wrote:

James- I like your idea, although it sends me on a 45 minute bone jarring cab ride here in Colon, Panama to a ferreteria. Would you make it out of pvc or something else ?


Re: Sharki shaft alternator

marklesparkle59
 

Thanks Ian. I am struggling to get to grips with the electrical system. The engine/starboard alternator is charging but not sure about the domestic/port alternator and I dont really understand the data my shiney new clamp meter is giving me. I need to read a book I think.
Mark



Sent from my Samsung device


-------- Original message --------
From: Ian <parkianj@...>
Date: 08/03/2019 11:52 (GMT+00:00)
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Sharki shaft alternator

Mark
On my Santorin you have to put the key in and switch on (next to your ameter). The green light comes on. It sends a current to the alternator to excite it and start it charging. You should turn off when finished using it and put your gear lever in reverse to stop the alternator charging before switching on the engine.
I believe the diodes in each of the engine and alternator should prevent any ‘issues’, but that is the prescribed Amel method.
My knowledge of electrics is limited - someone with a better understanding may chip in here.
The Santorin prop shaft pulley is quite a bit bigger too, so will turn the alternator faster. There is a significant drop in prop shaft speed as soon as you turn the alternator on.

Ian




Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

Thomas Kleman
 

James- I like your idea, although it sends me on a 45 minute bone jarring cab ride here in Colon, Panama to a ferreteria. Would you make it out of pvc or something else ?


Re: Sharki shaft alternator

Ian Park
 

Mark
On my Santorin you have to put the key in and switch on (next to your ameter). The green light comes on. It sends a current to the alternator to excite it and start it charging. You should turn off when finished using it and put your gear lever in reverse to stop the alternator charging before switching on the engine.
I believe the diodes in each of the engine and alternator should prevent any ‘issues’, but that is the prescribed Amel method.
My knowledge of electrics is limited - someone with a better understanding may chip in here.
The Santorin prop shaft pulley is quite a bit bigger too, so will turn the alternator faster. There is a significant drop in prop shaft speed as soon as you turn the alternator on.

Ian


Sharki shaft alternator

marklesparkle59
 

This is the set up on Sharki #96 Sea Hobo. I can't detect any charge at all, but it is very smooth. 
Mark



Sent from my Samsung device


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

Gary Silver
 

I did think of one reason to use plastic/PVC/FRP for the hawse pipe; at night in a rolling anchorage you won't be as likely to hear the clanking of the anchor chain in the hawse pipe. ;-)

Gary


Re: Faux Teak and Deck Paint

James Alton
 

Jose,

   The original finish for the faux teak and the stripes were done originally in Polyester gel coat.  Apparently the stripes were hand painted in according to what I have read recently.  Awl grip can be mixed to any colour desired so matching is possible.  Awl grip is a good paint and properly applied can last decade or more in the elements though a deck does get a lot of traffic so maybe less there depending on usage.   I did get 20 years with a custom textured nonskid pattern using Awlgrip on my previous boat and it still looked good when I sold the boat.   I am not sure of how one would properly prepare the textured surface of the gel coat on the Amel deck without losing the original detail of the wood grain in case that is important to you.  Also, applying Awlgrip without some kind of a nonskid coating would probably be quite slick and I don’t like the Awlgrip skidless additives which are high density polypropylene that become quite slick if the paint chips off.  I do have a solution to produce a textured pattern as mentioned above that is very skidless but it will cover the detail in the original of the simulated wood grain.  Nonetheless this is the direction I am considering going in the future.  In the meantime the thick original polyester gel coat may develop cracks and become thin in some spots but will still last a long time.    If you do some searching there should be other discussion about the Amel decks that could be helpful to you.

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 7, 2019, at 11:39 AM, Jose Venegas via Groups.Io <josegvenegas@...> wrote:

Dear Amelian brother and sisters: 

What kind of paint has been used for the faux teak boards?  
Is there Awlgrip paint colors for the faux teak boards and for the rest of deck?  If not what paint/color has been used for them.When it gets a little warmer I would like to do both the faux teak boards and the stripes, and a year from now have the rest of the deck done.
Any suggestions?

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM2K #278.
Freezing in Boston harbor.


Re: Marco UP6/E pump and MASS+ light

Scott SV Tengah
 

Thanks Bill, you're likely right.

But I am going to reach out to Marco to see what they say. I wanted to open it but the manual clearly states that the warranty becomes void if I try to service it!


Re: Marco UP6/E pump and MASS+

Scott SV Tengah
 

That's right, the MASS light is lit up when I go to the "+" side. There is 25-26v if I touch one multimeter lead to the pump body and the other to battery negative. 

Currently I've disconnected the bonding wire and of course, the light went out. Once we go to the boatyard for unrelated items in the future, I'll investigate further. With fresh water going through it, I presume not having the bonding wire connected is likely harmless?

Brent - I have tried to connect a wire to the Amel 24v panel freshwater pump light to the red wire (positive) AFTER the pump controller, so between the pump controller and the pump motor. On the UP6/E it's external, so easy to tap into that circuit. For some reason that wire is always energized, even when the pump isn't running. I guess when the controller doesn't want the pump to run, it puts out enough current to light up the Amel 24v panel light, but not enough to run the pump.


Re: Faux Teak and Deck Paint

Arlo
 

I would love to know as well...


Re: propeller Zinc

 

Craig,

Correct, I meant all Amels delivered with an AutoProp. Sorry for the confusion I may have caused.

Best,

Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St.
Galveston, Texas 77550
832-380-4970



On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 1:31 PM Craig Briggs via Groups.Io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Point well taken, Bill, although my Santorin was delivered with a fixed 3-blade prob with a conical bronze nut holding it onto the prop shaft. I don't think Amel put Auto-props on the Santorins as the shaft generator was part of the design and needs a fixed prop (or locking feathering one).
Cheers, Craig Briggs SN68


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Gary et al,

The bolt in question is the starboard aft position. Without it in place and the winch loaded up the whole winch moved so it isn't a question of where was the deck flexing. The body of the winch, without that bolt was bring pulled to lean forward. It was particularly noticeable when breaking the anchor free. I have no reason to believe there was any other cause and I noted once again the Captains attention to detail in not relying on a GRP deck but adding the certain strength of the bolt through the flange onto the hawse pipe. With that bolt in place movement is NIL and has been so for many years. So again I commend caution and attention to this detail when choosing a repair system. The load on the anchor winch can at times be considerable, we are not always anchored in calm water on a clean bottom with little wind.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl


With On 08 March 2019 at 08:07 "Gary Silver via Groups.Io" <garysilver@...> wrote:

Hi Danny:

Thanks for that re-iteration.  Can you describe in more detail where the deck was flexing?  Was it just at the bolt location or over a wider area?  The deck is stiffened also by the vertical fore-aft wall between the port and starboard sides.   Was the tab on the hawse pipe acting merely as a backing plate or was it the fiberglass collar with the hawse pipe as an assemblage that provided stiffening. 

I remember years ago Joel warned against attaching an inner forestay to the cleat on the winch or to the decking in that area without carrying the loads down to tougher structure.  

Thanks for any additional insight you might provide. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona 
Amel SM 2000 #335


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Alan,
Per earlier post in this thread, I did this with PVC, no flanges (as the original had none), just glassed in with good fillets on underside of deck and top of locker floor. Perfect for 3 years, now.
My galvanized pipe started rusting out after, I'd guess, 20 years, but we anchored probably 2000-ish different times times.
Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris


Re: propeller Zinc

Craig Briggs
 

Point well taken, Bill, although my Santorin was delivered with a fixed 3-blade prob with a conical bronze nut holding it onto the prop shaft. I don't think Amel put Auto-props on the Santorins as the shaft generator was part of the design and needs a fixed prop (or locking feathering one).
Cheers, Craig Briggs SN68


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

Gary Silver
 

Hi Danny:

Thanks for that re-iteration.  Can you describe in more detail where the deck was flexing?  Was it just at the bolt location or over a wider area?  The deck is stiffened also by the vertical fore-aft wall between the port and starboard sides.   Was the tab on the hawse pipe acting merely as a backing plate or was it the fiberglass collar with the hawse pipe as an assemblage that provided stiffening. 

I remember years ago Joel warned against attaching an inner forestay to the cleat on the winch or to the decking in that area without carrying the loads down to tougher structure.  

Thanks for any additional insight you might provide. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona 
Amel SM 2000 #335


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi All,

I am taking the very unusual step of repeating my recent information. On SM 299 the steel hawse pipe and its upper flange are an integral part of securing the anchor winch through the bolt that goes through the flange. Without repeating the detail, I was minus that bolt for a short period and there was significant  and unacceptable flexing of the deck when the winch was in use hauling the anchor. So unless your model has another method of stiffening the deck I would counsel  any replacement should include awareness of this.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 08 March 2019 at 07:15 "Gary Silver via Groups.Io" <garysilver@...> wrote:

Hi Alan: 

I am surprised to hear of number of boats affected.  It seems this is a common failure mode.  I have not done mine. I only discovered the problem when I spent a couple of days inside both of my forward lockers (lazarettes) doing the repairs on their floors.  Really not that bad of a job with a tyvek suit and full face respirator.  Prior to that I had never looked up, to the underside of the locker "ceiling" but I found the FRP "collar" at the top of the pipe split due to the pressure of the underlying rust.  Since I had my angle grinder in hand I ground enough FRP away to see the extensive rust of the pipe and flange.  I couldn't see any evidence of water intrusion, like salt crystals etc, and I am at a bit of a loss as to why this rusted so badly.  I will definitely do a non-rusting repair.  I don't believe this hawse pipe was structural in any way since there is only a single tab at the top and nothing tying it to the floor except the lower FRP collar. We all know that the floor of these lockers are under engineered for the loads imposed in pounding seas (e.g. tabbed only on the top so that loads tend to delaminate the plywood and un-protected from below from the moisture of the chain locker resulting in rot of the wood). 

I just don't see the need to place anything made of mild steel (galvanized or not) on an ocean going boat.  Like most of these things the cost of the materials is minuscule compared to the labor and grief involved in re-dos. Just my two cent worth. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335


Re: Marco UP6/E pump and MASS+

Brent Cameron
 

Bill, I had a look at the manuals for the UP6/E and MASS+ and the associated PCS, and it is clear from the pictures of the PCS circuit board that the RJ11 (phone not ethernet) jack is sending digital signals that are being picked up by a small Arduino CPU and translated for control purposes so there would be no easy way to tap into that to get a run light connected.  The reason I’m interested in this is that I ran into a similar problem on a friend's Amel (a Super Maramu) using a different pump.  It seemed  that the original Amel pump had a wire that was energized with 24V when the pump Motor was on but the new (Jabsco) pump didn’t have a provision for that.  

It could be handled fairly simply by putting a normally open relay in the circuit that provides power to the motor that would close the relay upon power being applied to the motor.  The controlled side of the relay could be wired from a 24V source to the light and back to the supply side ground.  This way, when ever the motor was energized, the relay would close, allowing 24V to turn on the light.  On the Jabsco, that was relatively easy as the power and the energized motor wires were easily accessible but you’d still need to put the whole contraption into a watertight box so wouldn’t necessarily be cheap - and introduces another failure point. That said, on this particular pump, you’d have to tap into the circuit that is between the pump controller and the pump motor to power the relay which would probably mean opening the case, so I’d probably just spring $90 for the PCS and be done with it as it provides a lot more information than just on/off.

It does look like a fine pump though.  

Brent Cameron, Future SM2K Owner

--
Brent Cameron

Future Super Maramu 2000 Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

Gary Silver
 

Hi Alan: 

I am surprised to hear of number of boats affected.  It seems this is a common failure mode.  I have not done mine. I only discovered the problem when I spent a couple of days inside both of my forward lockers (lazarettes) doing the repairs on their floors.  Really not that bad of a job with a tyvek suit and full face respirator.  Prior to that I had never looked up, to the underside of the locker "ceiling" but I found the FRP "collar" at the top of the pipe split due to the pressure of the underlying rust.  Since I had my angle grinder in hand I ground enough FRP away to see the extensive rust of the pipe and flange.  I couldn't see any evidence of water intrusion, like salt crystals etc, and I am at a bit of a loss as to why this rusted so badly.  I will definitely do a non-rusting repair.  I don't believe this hawse pipe was structural in any way since there is only a single tab at the top and nothing tying it to the floor except the lower FRP collar. We all know that the floor of these lockers are under engineered for the loads imposed in pounding seas (e.g. tabbed only on the top so that loads tend to delaminate the plywood and un-protected from below from the moisture of the chain locker resulting in rot of the wood). 

I just don't see the need to place anything made of mild steel (galvanized or not) on an ocean going boat.  Like most of these things the cost of the materials is minuscule compared to the labor and grief involved in re-dos. Just my two cent worth. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335

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