Date   

Re: ACMO rigging - unusual failure

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Bill,
Many thanks for your thoughtful and experienced reply plus your sage observation about speculating from afar - that's always an issue with this DB, but the idea flow is super, regardless.

I did an autopsy on the failed swage today - the first picture shows the inside of the swage with the outside strands having broken right at the top and the core strands breaking maybe an 1/8" down into the swage. The second picture, where I've cut the swage open, seems to show that the cable further down in the swage looks perfectly ok. I think the brown-ish surface stain down deep is just the grease they apply during the swaging process.


Below is a picture of one of the other stays which is showing pretty much the same rust as the backstay that broke. The picture on the right is of the end of the broken stay. It shows that all the outer strands broke at about the same level and the core strands are a little longer, that is, they broke a few mm's into the swage. (The perspective make it difficult to see that they stick out a bit, but they do.)

--
I have been in touch with ACMO and they said that, while ss does not normally rust, it is important to thoroughly wash the wire above the swages with soap and water when they are new to remove the swaging grease that may migrate out of the swage and form a dirt trap that can cause rusting.  The actual reply, which may lose a bit with the "Franglish" was,

It is important to know that this is not necessarily rust, the parts are in stainless steel and cannot rust except for concerns of contamination with an external element.

Did you try to clean with soap and water?

But if it's broke, it's broke.

For the futur : The first months, it is important to clean the cables with soap and water because grease can come out and "stick" the dust, which gives this rusty color.
The products used for the manufacture of cables are more respectful of nature and therefore less powerful than at the time :)"

I'm not quite sure what that means, but it may be sage advice to clean new swaged fittings early on.

As to tensioning, no, the backstays were not "AMEL tight". I keep the main mast stays "rock hard" but not the mizzen back stays, which, while "quite tight" (that is the leeward stay does not sag on a windy beam reach) , would give 2-3 inches when you grabbed them. I did not use a tensioning gauge when I set up the rig (for the larger diameter wire a tension gauge is hard to come by). I used Olivier's and Seldon Mast Co.'s recommendations (measuring the elongation of the wire as it is tensioned to get to about 15% of breaking strength), plus fine tuning at sea under ideal conditions (flat water and 15-20 knots of breeze). I do keep the other mizzen stays "Amel hard". 

The earlier failure (in 2009), which was of the forward mizzen lower was virtually identical in appearance (external strands broken at the top of the swage and core strands at 3-4 mm's down), except that the stay was under much tension as we were power reaching at a screaming 8.5 kts in a 25 kt breeze. That was the original 1992 rigging, so it was 17 or 18 years old. We often thought it may have been due to that stay being the one we always grabbed coming up the ladder after swimming in salt water and the water would drip down into the top of the swage. Perhaps. 

I do not think the cause of this failure can be definitively stated. However, I suspect that 5 to 6 years in tropical Florida waters and bobbing up and down with "cursed stink boats" going up and down the ICW at speed" presented a "work hardening" effect on the back stay, made worse, actually, because it was not "Amel tight". Plus, frankly, we did not religiously clean the stays above the swages, as ACMO recommends. 

As of now I plan to replace all the rigging and use mechanical fasteners throughout (except for the "special" lower headstay termination). Amel is sending me a quote and I'm getting quotes from Nance and Underwood and Florida Rigging. I'll update this post as I get more information.

Cheer's,
Craig

SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

eric freedman
 

A 15 dollar Chinese high water sensor is a great investment for that area.  Ebay--

 

I fabricated this wrench out of ¼ inch aluminum with a band saw and a bench grinder. It is just the right size to swing the wrench without hitting any stringers.

The upper left of the other photo shows where I keep spare packing and a packing nut. I got tired of the packing leaking and rusting the rudder quadrant, I had a new one made of stainless,

Fair winds,

Eric SM 376 Kimberlite

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randall Walker
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2021 4:16 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

 

On my passage from Gib. to Grenada before I left I checked the rudder post and found a half litre or so. Found a wrench gave it a slight turn. Checked it again just before leaving. But much to my surprise, being as that I was sleeping in the saloon as to be close to the cockpit, I had closed the aft cabin door and when I did go in all seemed well until the sound of water didn't sound outside the boat anymore. When I lifted the bed there was not a little water but it was full the rudder indicator was underwater and the linear drive was half-submerged, the water was overflowing the starboard side next to the drawer running down and filling the hole where the bed sideboards go. out come the hand pumps and bucket several buckets later and I see the problem water had been coming in through the packing. so I maintained a check every 2 hours. it came to be 1 liter an hour until I reached Grenada and fashioned a wrench and strap that would be big enough to tighten it. now I need to get a nut packing and kit. I don't want to ever see that again.

 

The conclusion is what Bill said, Monitor it.

 

lesson learned.

 

Randall

A54#56

 

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 8:13 PM Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Packing removal tool:  a dental pick also works fine. 

 

I’ve changed one in harbour; very easy and compression can be achieved with  1 cm wide piece of hardwood and a rubber/plastic hammer. 

 

Use a new compression nut and keep the old one as a spare. 

 

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007 



On 2 Apr 2021, at 10:44, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:



Pat,

 

Here you are:

A snippet from a page in my book and a link to the Amel Book Supplement file (Rudder Post Packing) mentioned in the book:

<image.png>

 

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 4:04 PM Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

This is the proverbial question whether to fix something that is not broke. I have owned my boat for at least 15 years and have never replaced the packing , never even tightened down the nut , I also have never had a leak. I just had Maud send me new packing ,I have the quadrant and nut off . Now I am having a second thought about messing with it as it has never leaked a drop. Sure enough ,with my luck if I repack it, I will probably have a leak . Do you cut the ends on a 45 degree angle so to overlap or just cut the ends square.

Thanks,

Pat

SM#123

PS. Is this secret place just on 54s or SMs as well, or is this just an urban myth ,designed to drive people nuts as they tear out their interiors ?

-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 1, 2021 2:33 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

Stephan,

 

My thoughts:

 

Generally, when the packing begins to leak it is because the nut needs to further compress the packing, and/or the packing has been compressed several times by tightening the nut and requires replacing because there is no compression flexibility left in the packing material.

 

And generally, water will leak through this packing when the boat is moving bow to stern while sailing. The more the stern moves up and down when sailing, the higher the water pressure is on the packing.

 

The top of the rudder post gland is normally above the waterline, but I have seen at least one SM so overloaded at the stern that it was likely close to the waterline.

 

Leaving her in a marina for 6 months with packing that needs replacing is probably a low-risk issue, mitigated to almost no-risk with someone checking on her.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 12:54 PM Stephan Regulinski via groups.io <stephreg=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Paul, et al.,

Great thread! And very timely: I just found 8 ozs of water in area next to rudder post.  We are just about to depart Panama for the US. What to do?

1. Leave repair until I return in six (ish) months, which gives me time to get a Palmetto tool, sched 80 plastic pipe, packing material, etc.; or,

2. Stop press, change flight dates and do repair now using locally sourced materials and tools.

S/V Hanalei is vintage 1999, so the stuffing material will be old. When we depart, she will be in a marina under watchful eye of experienced mechanic, and boat caretaker.

Has anyone had success with tightening the packing nut on old packing material?

Thanks in advance for thoughts.

Stephan G. Regulinski 
S/V Hanalei SM #266


Re: Boom Outhaul

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Randal I would say your problem is almost certainly stuck brushes in the motor. I have had the same thing on my SM several times. It is caused by an accumulation of carbon dust from wear of the brushes. The sm has a method to mechanically replace the out haul motor system.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 14 April 2021 at 05:26 Randall Walker <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:

Hello All,. An easy fix on the original SM motor which had easy access to the brushes. Some morors hae to be dismantled to access the brushes.

Regards

Danny

I have just completed a Solo Sail from Gibraltar to Grenada. My first Solo.
Departed 7 March arrived 10 April 3930 nm there is a few extra miles due to fussy wind and just going with the flow at night. What stopped working a few things but I will only ask today about the boom outhaul, it stopped after week number 2 so for the most part I left it out about a third and made use of the mizzen and Genoa.
What is happening? mast furler works fine. when I push in or out on the BH (boom haulout) I hear a loud click at the breaker but the motor doesn't turn. So I believe up to the motor I'm OK.
I arrived on the night of the 10th all is well I decide to just sail through the night at a slow pace and enter in the morning. I awoke just before sunup to find I need to let out some more headsail. But something looks odd the bottom of the sail has sripes. So I go out to look, it is still dark and I think why is there so much polution coming from the island? Then I look at my hands and there covered in soot. I didn't think of the volcano. When I finnaly anchored I heard the news.
They have been busy down here running suppies up and people down this way.
I am glad to hear that it is messy and dirty but all are OK.

So in another quest for knowlege about other things I need to learn.
I will get back to you.

Randall
A54#56
S/V ALBEDO


Re: Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

Randall Walker
 

On my passage from Gib. to Grenada before I left I checked the rudder post and found a half litre or so. Found a wrench gave it a slight turn. Checked it again just before leaving. But much to my surprise, being as that I was sleeping in the saloon as to be close to the cockpit, I had closed the aft cabin door and when I did go in all seemed well until the sound of water didn't sound outside the boat anymore. When I lifted the bed there was not a little water but it was full the rudder indicator was underwater and the linear drive was half-submerged, the water was overflowing the starboard side next to the drawer running down and filling the hole where the bed sideboards go. out come the hand pumps and bucket several buckets later and I see the problem water had been coming in through the packing. so I maintained a check every 2 hours. it came to be 1 liter an hour until I reached Grenada and fashioned a wrench and strap that would be big enough to tighten it. now I need to get a nut packing and kit. I don't want to ever see that again.

The conclusion is what Bill said, Monitor it.

lesson learned.

Randall
A54#56

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 8:13 PM Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> wrote:
Packing removal tool:  a dental pick also works fine. 

I’ve changed one in harbour; very easy and compression can be achieved with  1 cm wide piece of hardwood and a rubber/plastic hammer. 

Use a new compression nut and keep the old one as a spare. 

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007 


On 2 Apr 2021, at 10:44, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:


Pat,

Here you are:
A snippet from a page in my book and a link to the Amel Book Supplement file (Rudder Post Packing) mentioned in the book:
<image.png>

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 4:04 PM Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
This is the proverbial question whether to fix something that is not broke. I have owned my boat for at least 15 years and have never replaced the packing , never even tightened down the nut , I also have never had a leak. I just had Maud send me new packing ,I have the quadrant and nut off . Now I am having a second thought about messing with it as it has never leaked a drop. Sure enough ,with my luck if I repack it, I will probably have a leak . Do you cut the ends on a 45 degree angle so to overlap or just cut the ends square.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123
PS. Is this secret place just on 54s or SMs as well, or is this just an urban myth ,designed to drive people nuts as they tear out their interiors ?


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 1, 2021 2:33 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

Stephan,

My thoughts:

Generally, when the packing begins to leak it is because the nut needs to further compress the packing, and/or the packing has been compressed several times by tightening the nut and requires replacing because there is no compression flexibility left in the packing material.

And generally, water will leak through this packing when the boat is moving bow to stern while sailing. The more the stern moves up and down when sailing, the higher the water pressure is on the packing.

The top of the rudder post gland is normally above the waterline, but I have seen at least one SM so overloaded at the stern that it was likely close to the waterline.

Leaving her in a marina for 6 months with packing that needs replacing is probably a low-risk issue, mitigated to almost no-risk with someone checking on her.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 12:54 PM Stephan Regulinski via groups.io <stephreg=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Paul, et al.,

Great thread! And very timely: I just found 8 ozs of water in area next to rudder post.  We are just about to depart Panama for the US. What to do?

1. Leave repair until I return in six (ish) months, which gives me time to get a Palmetto tool, sched 80 plastic pipe, packing material, etc.; or,

2. Stop press, change flight dates and do repair now using locally sourced materials and tools.

S/V Hanalei is vintage 1999, so the stuffing material will be old. When we depart, she will be in a marina under watchful eye of experienced mechanic, and boat caretaker.

Has anyone had success with tightening the packing nut on old packing material?

Thanks in advance for thoughts.

Stephan G. Regulinski 
S/V Hanalei SM #266


Re: tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/

 

I believe that Amel changed nothing, except they offered to a few 54 buyers an in-line booster pump powered by the AC output of the Onan.

I suspect Amel was motivated by X number of buyers of the 54 including the previous owner of your 54. The PO of your 54 took things a step further and bypassed the mechanical Onan saltwater pump. I am sure that this is not what Amel intended when adding a booster pump. Frankly, I am surprised that Amel added a booster pump because I believe it was not needed.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 2:40 PM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks for feedback.

 

Just out of curiosity: what would motivate AMEL to change the ONAN impeller pump to the (ceramic centrifugal) booster pump? I am not questioning wisdom and must admit that except 1 occasion I never had a problem with this pump and NEVER had to change the impeller as it simply isn’t there. Although the impeller on the ONAN is far more accessible than on my VOLVO D3 H – where it is on the back of the engine close to the shower bulkhead.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 12:37:59

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2021 12:19
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/

 

Teun,

 

I like and I have the utmost respect for Brian. 

 

Remember there are other 230VAC pumps/devices this low. They include:

AC Saltwater Pump

LP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built). The PO of your 54 changed out the Dessalator Watermaker for another brand.

HP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built)

Wiring for the water heater

 

The 230VAC pump you have in-line with the Onan mechanical saltwater pump is considered a booster pump and was a "hidden" option Amel installed in a few 54s.

 

The danger would be an electrical shock if standing in your engine room with the generator running and the engine room is flooded. How possible do you consider this? Yes, there is a remote possibility, but the same possibility exists with the other 230 volt devices in a 54 engine room.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:35 PM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

On AMELIT, June 2009 AMEL 54 # 128, I have an 220v electric water pump which was an AMEL original installed option with the ONAN impeller removed and now an open cavity.

 

Several people (including Bill ROUSE) suggested to have both the electric pump as well as the original ONAN impeller operating jointly and when I looked into doing this in 2018 in NEW CALEDONIA and again in 2019 in VANUATU both marine technician strongly advised against doing this.

 

Being on the hard in COOMERA, QLND AUSTRALIA since December 2019 fellow AMEL owners Sue & Brian MITCHELL (in addition very experienced, professional Superyachts Captains) have been looking after AMELIT and we have been discussing several engine room related issues. This electric ONAN pump is one of them and Brian, rightfully, is wondering why a 220v pump is: A) being used and B) so low on the floor of the engine room.

 

Does anybody have any feedback on this as I simply don’t know so cannot answer his question or justify the set up.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 10:31:52

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/

Teun BAAS
 

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks for feedback.

 

Just out of curiosity: what would motivate AMEL to change the ONAN impeller pump to the (ceramic centrifugal) booster pump? I am not questioning wisdom and must admit that except 1 occasion I never had a problem with this pump and NEVER had to change the impeller as it simply isn’t there. Although the impeller on the ONAN is far more accessible than on my VOLVO D3 H – where it is on the back of the engine close to the shower bulkhead.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 12:37:59

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2021 12:19
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/

 

Teun,

 

I like and I have the utmost respect for Brian. 

 

Remember there are other 230VAC pumps/devices this low. They include:

AC Saltwater Pump

LP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built). The PO of your 54 changed out the Dessalator Watermaker for another brand.

HP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built)

Wiring for the water heater

 

The 230VAC pump you have in-line with the Onan mechanical saltwater pump is considered a booster pump and was a "hidden" option Amel installed in a few 54s.

 

The danger would be an electrical shock if standing in your engine room with the generator running and the engine room is flooded. How possible do you consider this? Yes, there is a remote possibility, but the same possibility exists with the other 230 volt devices in a 54 engine room.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:35 PM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

On AMELIT, June 2009 AMEL 54 # 128, I have an 220v electric water pump which was an AMEL original installed option with the ONAN impeller removed and now an open cavity.

 

Several people (including Bill ROUSE) suggested to have both the electric pump as well as the original ONAN impeller operating jointly and when I looked into doing this in 2018 in NEW CALEDONIA and again in 2019 in VANUATU both marine technician strongly advised against doing this.

 

Being on the hard in COOMERA, QLND AUSTRALIA since December 2019 fellow AMEL owners Sue & Brian MITCHELL (in addition very experienced, professional Superyachts Captains) have been looking after AMELIT and we have been discussing several engine room related issues. This electric ONAN pump is one of them and Brian, rightfully, is wondering why a 220v pump is: A) being used and B) so low on the floor of the engine room.

 

Does anybody have any feedback on this as I simply don’t know so cannot answer his question or justify the set up.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 10:31:52

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Boom Outhaul

 

Courtney, 

Thanks for that.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 2:18 PM Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill I have hull number 101 with version 3 One other comment the gearbox has changed since it’s initial manufacture for this version


On Apr 13, 2021, at 3:10 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:


Randall,

1. Outhaul Motors Gearbox A54:
I think there are a total of 3 versions of the A54 outhaul and I have no idea the hull number introduction and cut-off dates for each. The first 54s had an identical Leroy Somer outhaul like the SM. This was later changed to a motor and gearbox that was covered and then changed to a totally different motor. To further complicate helping you, at some point, Amel added thermo-switches to the circuitry of the A54 outhaul and furler motors/

1st Version (Same as a SM):
<image.png>

2nd Version (same as above but an on-boom cover added)
<image.png>


3rd Version - without cover & with cover:
<image.png>

<image.png>


2: Thermo-switches (Possibly your Issue):

<image.png>

<image.png>

The 54 has additional overheating protection added (above right - green circle), but in an emergency, can be overridden. This compartment is in the Port Forward Berth on the 54. It is behind a panel secured by Velcro and possibly an additional screw. You can locate it by listening to the clicking sound while operating the main furler and/or outhaul.

I hope this helps you sort things out.

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:26 PM Randall Walker <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Hello All,

I have just completed a Solo Sail from Gibraltar to Grenada. My first Solo.
Departed 7 March arrived 10 April 3930 nm there is a few extra miles due to fussy wind and just going with the flow at night. What stopped working a few things but I will only ask today about the boom outhaul, it stopped after week number 2 so for the most part I left it out about a third and made use of the mizzen and Genoa.
What is happening? mast furler works fine. when I push in or out on the BH (boom haulout) I hear a loud click at the breaker but the motor doesn't turn. So I believe up to the motor I'm OK.
I arrived on the night of the 10th all is well I decide to just sail through the night at a slow pace and enter in the morning. I awoke just before sunup to find I need to let out some more headsail. But something looks odd the bottom of the sail has sripes. So I go out to look, it is still dark and I think why is there so much polution coming from the island? Then I look at my hands and there covered in soot. I didn't think of the volcano. When I finnaly anchored I heard the news.
They have been busy down here running suppies up and people down this way.
I am glad to hear that it is messy and dirty but all are OK.

So in another quest for knowlege about other things I need to learn.
I will get back to you.

Randall
A54#56
S/V ALBEDO


Re: 2008 Amel 54 rigging

 

Courtney, 

Nance and Underwood are one of my Preferred Vendors. Be sure that you tell Roger that you are a client.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:43 PM Porter McRoberts via groups.io <portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Nance and Underwood are great. I agree and have all the in-house aptitudes to handle deviations and unexpected realities. And they pick up the phone and get right in it if there’s an issue. 



Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206

On Apr 13, 2021, at 5:34 AM, Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


Thanks Bill for all the great informantion
Cheers
Courtney


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2021 10:10 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Courntey,

There are several ways to do the rigging on an Amel (or any other boat, for that matter)  You can have the exact dimensions on file, and cut the wires to length at a factory and prepare the end terminals there and ship out the competed product.  This is what ACMO does, and does well.

The standard process that most riggers use is to measure the wires, then prepare the rig at their shop and install it on the boat. There are a couple issues here.  It is very difficult to measure the lengths precisely with the rig up, so most riggers will want the rig down.  Also, there are very few rigging shops that use a proper rotary hammer swaging machine, preferring the much smaller, much less expensive roller swager instead.  A roller swager can certainly make a good sage, but a lot depends on the skill, experience, and careful attention of the operator.

We worked with a rigger who did things a bit differently.

When we re-rigged last year we looked at the ACMO package.  If we were going to install it ourselves, we would certainly have gone that way.  But we were busy with other projects, and the amount of aloft time needed to install a new rig just didn't appeal. Since local riggers make a good piece of their profit on materials, if you come to most of them with a rig on a pallet for installation (i.e., ACMO), it can get expensive.

We used Nance and Underwood in Fort Lauderdale to make and install the new rig.  They have done a LOT of Amel re-rigs, under Joel Potter's tutoring. They know the boats. They have a design for a bespoke bronze turnbuckle they make in-house for the Super Maramu and others that use that furler so can fully replace the forestay fittings inside the furler without compromise. For their work process, mechanical terminals work out very well.  They make up the top end of all the wires at the shop, and leave them a little long. At the boat, they take down one wire at a time, lay it out on the dock, cut the new wire to the exact length, install the lower terminal, and hang the wire. In our experience they come pretty close to the right tuning at the dock, but be prepared to go through the last couple of steps in Olivier's rigging instructions when you get the boat sailing to make sure it is right.

Things to be aware of:  There will be minor changes--I believe with any USA based rigger.  Getting ALL the metric based fittings here is extremely difficult, so some things will be switched over to inch sizes.  That requires enlarging some holes in chainplates.  If that bothers you, your only real option is to use an ACMO kit, or rerig in Europe or the French Caribbean, or wait a long time for slow deliveries.  As far as I can tell, inch size rigging fittings are available everywhere, metric sizes are less widely distributed. The lower shroud turnbuckles also end up rotated 90 degrees, so the lifelines no longer go through them. A minor frustration. If it really bothered you, you COULD drill out a new cotter pin hole in the lower stud. If you use Nance and Underwood, try to find a marina with wood docks, or work with them ahead of time to figure out how to protect the wire from damage while it is being handled and dragged on a concrete dock surface.

All the terminals on our new rig are mechanical terminals--except the lower forestay.  A swage is needed here because on the Super Maramu it has to fit up inside the furler, and there are no mechanical fittings of small enough diameter to do this.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Re: tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/

 

Teun,

I like and I have the utmost respect for Brian. 

Remember there are other 230VAC pumps/devices this low. They include:
AC Saltwater Pump
LP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built). The PO of your 54 changed out the Dessalator Watermaker for another brand.
HP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built)
Wiring for the water heater

The 230VAC pump you have in-line with the Onan mechanical saltwater pump is considered a booster pump and was a "hidden" option Amel installed in a few 54s.

The danger would be an electrical shock if standing in your engine room with the generator running and the engine room is flooded. How possible do you consider this? Yes, there is a remote possibility, but the same possibility exists with the other 230 volt devices in a 54 engine room.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:35 PM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

On AMELIT, June 2009 AMEL 54 # 128, I have an 220v electric water pump which was an AMEL original installed option with the ONAN impeller removed and now an open cavity.

 

Several people (including Bill ROUSE) suggested to have both the electric pump as well as the original ONAN impeller operating jointly and when I looked into doing this in 2018 in NEW CALEDONIA and again in 2019 in VANUATU both marine technician strongly advised against doing this.

 

Being on the hard in COOMERA, QLND AUSTRALIA since December 2019 fellow AMEL owners Sue & Brian MITCHELL (in addition very experienced, professional Superyachts Captains) have been looking after AMELIT and we have been discussing several engine room related issues. This electric ONAN pump is one of them and Brian, rightfully, is wondering why a 220v pump is: A) being used and B) so low on the floor of the engine room.

 

Does anybody have any feedback on this as I simply don’t know so cannot answer his question or justify the set up.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 10:31:52

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Boom Outhaul

Courtney Gorman
 

Bill I have hull number 101 with version 3 One other comment the gearbox has changed since it’s initial manufacture for this version


On Apr 13, 2021, at 3:10 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:


Randall,

1. Outhaul Motors Gearbox A54:
I think there are a total of 3 versions of the A54 outhaul and I have no idea the hull number introduction and cut-off dates for each. The first 54s had an identical Leroy Somer outhaul like the SM. This was later changed to a motor and gearbox that was covered and then changed to a totally different motor. To further complicate helping you, at some point, Amel added thermo-switches to the circuitry of the A54 outhaul and furler motors/

1st Version (Same as a SM):
<image.png>

2nd Version (same as above but an on-boom cover added)
<image.png>


3rd Version - without cover & with cover:
<image.png>

<image.png>


2: Thermo-switches (Possibly your Issue):

<image.png>

<image.png>

The 54 has additional overheating protection added (above right - green circle), but in an emergency, can be overridden. This compartment is in the Port Forward Berth on the 54. It is behind a panel secured by Velcro and possibly an additional screw. You can locate it by listening to the clicking sound while operating the main furler and/or outhaul.

I hope this helps you sort things out.

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:26 PM Randall Walker <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Hello All,

I have just completed a Solo Sail from Gibraltar to Grenada. My first Solo.
Departed 7 March arrived 10 April 3930 nm there is a few extra miles due to fussy wind and just going with the flow at night. What stopped working a few things but I will only ask today about the boom outhaul, it stopped after week number 2 so for the most part I left it out about a third and made use of the mizzen and Genoa.
What is happening? mast furler works fine. when I push in or out on the BH (boom haulout) I hear a loud click at the breaker but the motor doesn't turn. So I believe up to the motor I'm OK.
I arrived on the night of the 10th all is well I decide to just sail through the night at a slow pace and enter in the morning. I awoke just before sunup to find I need to let out some more headsail. But something looks odd the bottom of the sail has sripes. So I go out to look, it is still dark and I think why is there so much polution coming from the island? Then I look at my hands and there covered in soot. I didn't think of the volcano. When I finnaly anchored I heard the news.
They have been busy down here running suppies up and people down this way.
I am glad to hear that it is messy and dirty but all are OK.

So in another quest for knowlege about other things I need to learn.
I will get back to you.

Randall
A54#56
S/V ALBEDO


Re: Boom Outhaul

 

Randall,

1. Outhaul Motors Gearbox A54:
I think there are a total of 3 versions of the A54 outhaul and I have no idea the hull number introduction and cut-off dates for each. The first 54s had an identical Leroy Somer outhaul like the SM. This was later changed to a motor and gearbox that was covered and then changed to a totally different motor. To further complicate helping you, at some point, Amel added thermo-switches to the circuitry of the A54 outhaul and furler motors/

1st Version (Same as a SM):
image.png
2nd Version (same as above but an on-boom cover added)
image.png

3rd Version - without cover & with cover:
image.png
image.png

2: Thermo-switches (Possibly your Issue):

image.png
image.png
The 54 has additional overheating protection added (above right - green circle), but in an emergency, can be overridden. This compartment is in the Port Forward Berth on the 54. It is behind a panel secured by Velcro and possibly an additional screw. You can locate it by listening to the clicking sound while operating the main furler and/or outhaul.

I hope this helps you sort things out.

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:26 PM Randall Walker <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Hello All,

I have just completed a Solo Sail from Gibraltar to Grenada. My first Solo.
Departed 7 March arrived 10 April 3930 nm there is a few extra miles due to fussy wind and just going with the flow at night. What stopped working a few things but I will only ask today about the boom outhaul, it stopped after week number 2 so for the most part I left it out about a third and made use of the mizzen and Genoa.
What is happening? mast furler works fine. when I push in or out on the BH (boom haulout) I hear a loud click at the breaker but the motor doesn't turn. So I believe up to the motor I'm OK.
I arrived on the night of the 10th all is well I decide to just sail through the night at a slow pace and enter in the morning. I awoke just before sunup to find I need to let out some more headsail. But something looks odd the bottom of the sail has sripes. So I go out to look, it is still dark and I think why is there so much polution coming from the island? Then I look at my hands and there covered in soot. I didn't think of the volcano. When I finnaly anchored I heard the news.
They have been busy down here running suppies up and people down this way.
I am glad to hear that it is messy and dirty but all are OK.

So in another quest for knowlege about other things I need to learn.
I will get back to you.

Randall
A54#56
S/V ALBEDO


Re: END OF group purchase of 10Ultramarine anchors. (35 and 45kg)

jlm@jlmertz.fr
 

Super  Ulrich .. fair wind ....

You will see they are so beautiful  ...

Next project ... perhaps anti-fouling or sails .... do you have any suggestion ?

Jean Luc Mertz

CottonBay SM 3156
Le 13/04/2021 à 18:20, Ulrich Michael Dangelmeyer a écrit :

Mission accomplished! Anchor and ground tackle already ordered.
Thanks so much for your efforts Jean Luc!
Whats the next project for the group👍?
Best
Ulrich 

Am 13.04.2021 um 17:47 schrieb jlm@...:

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 05:06 AM, jlm@... wrote:

Group purchase of UltraMarine Anchors will END this weekend ..... April 18 .....

If you wish to participate in this group purchase you can still do so by registering on:  http: // www.cottonbay.fr/U_a.php


Jean Luc Mertz

CottonBay SM 3156


tb/AMEL 53 VOLVO PENTA exhaust hose/

Teun BAAS
 

 

AMELIT is a June 2009 AMEL 54 #128.

 

I had the VOLVO PENTA D3 110 I replaced in May 2018 with the VOLVO PENTA D3 H.

The original set up had an enormous long & fat rubber exhaust hose hanging from the VOLVO and supported by a “belt” attached to the Engine Room hatch support connection; using new hose, we repeated this in the new 2018 set up.

 

Brian and I are discussing getting a 3” fiber glass elbow manufactured in order to avoid this long hose loop hanging in the engine room.

 

Any reason why we should NOT do this?

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

In Storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

April 13, 2021 10:50:49

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

 

 


Re: 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Porter McRoberts
 

Nance and Underwood are great. I agree and have all the in-house aptitudes to handle deviations and unexpected realities. And they pick up the phone and get right in it if there’s an issue. 



Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Apr 13, 2021, at 5:34 AM, Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1@...> wrote:


Thanks Bill for all the great informantion
Cheers
Courtney


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2021 10:10 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Courntey,

There are several ways to do the rigging on an Amel (or any other boat, for that matter)  You can have the exact dimensions on file, and cut the wires to length at a factory and prepare the end terminals there and ship out the competed product.  This is what ACMO does, and does well.

The standard process that most riggers use is to measure the wires, then prepare the rig at their shop and install it on the boat. There are a couple issues here.  It is very difficult to measure the lengths precisely with the rig up, so most riggers will want the rig down.  Also, there are very few rigging shops that use a proper rotary hammer swaging machine, preferring the much smaller, much less expensive roller swager instead.  A roller swager can certainly make a good sage, but a lot depends on the skill, experience, and careful attention of the operator.

We worked with a rigger who did things a bit differently.

When we re-rigged last year we looked at the ACMO package.  If we were going to install it ourselves, we would certainly have gone that way.  But we were busy with other projects, and the amount of aloft time needed to install a new rig just didn't appeal. Since local riggers make a good piece of their profit on materials, if you come to most of them with a rig on a pallet for installation (i.e., ACMO), it can get expensive.

We used Nance and Underwood in Fort Lauderdale to make and install the new rig.  They have done a LOT of Amel re-rigs, under Joel Potter's tutoring. They know the boats. They have a design for a bespoke bronze turnbuckle they make in-house for the Super Maramu and others that use that furler so can fully replace the forestay fittings inside the furler without compromise. For their work process, mechanical terminals work out very well.  They make up the top end of all the wires at the shop, and leave them a little long. At the boat, they take down one wire at a time, lay it out on the dock, cut the new wire to the exact length, install the lower terminal, and hang the wire. In our experience they come pretty close to the right tuning at the dock, but be prepared to go through the last couple of steps in Olivier's rigging instructions when you get the boat sailing to make sure it is right.

Things to be aware of:  There will be minor changes--I believe with any USA based rigger.  Getting ALL the metric based fittings here is extremely difficult, so some things will be switched over to inch sizes.  That requires enlarging some holes in chainplates.  If that bothers you, your only real option is to use an ACMO kit, or rerig in Europe or the French Caribbean, or wait a long time for slow deliveries.  As far as I can tell, inch size rigging fittings are available everywhere, metric sizes are less widely distributed. The lower shroud turnbuckles also end up rotated 90 degrees, so the lifelines no longer go through them. A minor frustration. If it really bothered you, you COULD drill out a new cotter pin hole in the lower stud. If you use Nance and Underwood, try to find a marina with wood docks, or work with them ahead of time to figure out how to protect the wire from damage while it is being handled and dragged on a concrete dock surface.

All the terminals on our new rig are mechanical terminals--except the lower forestay.  A swage is needed here because on the Super Maramu it has to fit up inside the furler, and there are no mechanical fittings of small enough diameter to do this.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/

Teun BAAS
 

On AMELIT, June 2009 AMEL 54 # 128, I have an 220v electric water pump which was an AMEL original installed option with the ONAN impeller removed and now an open cavity.

 

Several people (including Bill ROUSE) suggested to have both the electric pump as well as the original ONAN impeller operating jointly and when I looked into doing this in 2018 in NEW CALEDONIA and again in 2019 in VANUATU both marine technician strongly advised against doing this.

 

Being on the hard in COOMERA, QLND AUSTRALIA since December 2019 fellow AMEL owners Sue & Brian MITCHELL (in addition very experienced, professional Superyachts Captains) have been looking after AMELIT and we have been discussing several engine room related issues. This electric ONAN pump is one of them and Brian, rightfully, is wondering why a 220v pump is: A) being used and B) so low on the floor of the engine room.

 

Does anybody have any feedback on this as I simply don’t know so cannot answer his question or justify the set up.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 10:31:52

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Boom Outhaul

Randall Walker
 

Hello All,

I have just completed a Solo Sail from Gibraltar to Grenada. My first Solo.
Departed 7 March arrived 10 April 3930 nm there is a few extra miles due to fussy wind and just going with the flow at night. What stopped working a few things but I will only ask today about the boom outhaul, it stopped after week number 2 so for the most part I left it out about a third and made use of the mizzen and Genoa.
What is happening? mast furler works fine. when I push in or out on the BH (boom haulout) I hear a loud click at the breaker but the motor doesn't turn. So I believe up to the motor I'm OK.
I arrived on the night of the 10th all is well I decide to just sail through the night at a slow pace and enter in the morning. I awoke just before sunup to find I need to let out some more headsail. But something looks odd the bottom of the sail has sripes. So I go out to look, it is still dark and I think why is there so much polution coming from the island? Then I look at my hands and there covered in soot. I didn't think of the volcano. When I finnaly anchored I heard the news.
They have been busy down here running suppies up and people down this way.
I am glad to hear that it is messy and dirty but all are OK.

So in another quest for knowlege about other things I need to learn.
I will get back to you.

Randall
A54#56
S/V ALBEDO


European Fire Extinguishers

David Kurtz
 

So what does everyone do when it comes time to recertify European fire extinguishers in the United States?  The CO2 extinguisher for the engine room appears to be the original unit installed in 2003.  So far three fire extinguisher service companies have refused to certify it because it is not a DOT approved bottle.  I like the way it is mounted and the fact that it is a manual release.  Has anyone come across another bottle that fits in this space?


--
Dave Kurtz
SM2 #380
S/V Celtic Cross

Detroit, Michigan


Re: END OF group purchase of 10Ultramarine anchors. (35 and 45kg)

Ulrich Michael Dangelmeyer
 

Mission accomplished! Anchor and ground tackle already ordered.
Thanks so much for your efforts Jean Luc!
Whats the next project for the group👍?
Best
Ulrich 

Am 13.04.2021 um 17:47 schrieb jlm@...:

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 05:06 AM, jlm@... wrote:

Group purchase of UltraMarine Anchors will END this weekend ..... April 18 .....

If you wish to participate in this group purchase you can still do so by registering on:  http: // www.cottonbay.fr/U_a.php


Jean Luc Mertz

CottonBay SM 3156


END OF group purchase of 10Ultramarine anchors. (35 and 45kg)

jlm@jlmertz.fr
 

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 05:06 AM, jlm@... wrote:

Group purchase of UltraMarine Anchors will END this weekend ..... April 18 .....

If you wish to participate in this group purchase you can still do so by registering on:  http: // www.cottonbay.fr/U_a.php


Jean Luc Mertz

CottonBay SM 3156


Re: 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Courtney Gorman
 

Thanks Bill for all the great informantion
Cheers
Courtney


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2021 10:10 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Courntey,

There are several ways to do the rigging on an Amel (or any other boat, for that matter)  You can have the exact dimensions on file, and cut the wires to length at a factory and prepare the end terminals there and ship out the competed product.  This is what ACMO does, and does well.

The standard process that most riggers use is to measure the wires, then prepare the rig at their shop and install it on the boat. There are a couple issues here.  It is very difficult to measure the lengths precisely with the rig up, so most riggers will want the rig down.  Also, there are very few rigging shops that use a proper rotary hammer swaging machine, preferring the much smaller, much less expensive roller swager instead.  A roller swager can certainly make a good sage, but a lot depends on the skill, experience, and careful attention of the operator.

We worked with a rigger who did things a bit differently.

When we re-rigged last year we looked at the ACMO package.  If we were going to install it ourselves, we would certainly have gone that way.  But we were busy with other projects, and the amount of aloft time needed to install a new rig just didn't appeal. Since local riggers make a good piece of their profit on materials, if you come to most of them with a rig on a pallet for installation (i.e., ACMO), it can get expensive.

We used Nance and Underwood in Fort Lauderdale to make and install the new rig.  They have done a LOT of Amel re-rigs, under Joel Potter's tutoring. They know the boats. They have a design for a bespoke bronze turnbuckle they make in-house for the Super Maramu and others that use that furler so can fully replace the forestay fittings inside the furler without compromise. For their work process, mechanical terminals work out very well.  They make up the top end of all the wires at the shop, and leave them a little long. At the boat, they take down one wire at a time, lay it out on the dock, cut the new wire to the exact length, install the lower terminal, and hang the wire. In our experience they come pretty close to the right tuning at the dock, but be prepared to go through the last couple of steps in Olivier's rigging instructions when you get the boat sailing to make sure it is right.

Things to be aware of:  There will be minor changes--I believe with any USA based rigger.  Getting ALL the metric based fittings here is extremely difficult, so some things will be switched over to inch sizes.  That requires enlarging some holes in chainplates.  If that bothers you, your only real option is to use an ACMO kit, or rerig in Europe or the French Caribbean, or wait a long time for slow deliveries.  As far as I can tell, inch size rigging fittings are available everywhere, metric sizes are less widely distributed. The lower shroud turnbuckles also end up rotated 90 degrees, so the lifelines no longer go through them. A minor frustration. If it really bothered you, you COULD drill out a new cotter pin hole in the lower stud. If you use Nance and Underwood, try to find a marina with wood docks, or work with them ahead of time to figure out how to protect the wire from damage while it is being handled and dragged on a concrete dock surface.

All the terminals on our new rig are mechanical terminals--except the lower forestay.  A swage is needed here because on the Super Maramu it has to fit up inside the furler, and there are no mechanical fittings of small enough diameter to do this.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA

1161 - 1180 of 58573