Date   

Re: Intermittent starting issue

Mark Erdos
 

Bill, Good point. I guess the key would need to be in the start position or the connection made to the starter relay.

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 7:43 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

 

Mark,

 

I believe if that works on your Amel, the Negative Solenoid is defeated, bypassed, or not installed.

 

The negative solenoid closes by the key action when the key is moved to "start."

 

I think it might be possible to connect a remote starter switch to the starter relay which controls both the starter solenoid and the negative solenoid.

 

 

Image removed by sender.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.

 

View My Training Calendar

Image removed by sender.

 

 

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

Pat,

 

Here’s a thought. When the engine doesn’t crank, use a remote starter switch to bypass the panel. This connects to the solenoid on the starter (the small terminal marked “s” and the pos battery terminal – thick red cable). This will completely bypass the panel at the helm.

This will help isolate your issue. If the engine cranks, you’ll know the issue is in the panel or harness (probably a poor connection). If it doesn’t crank it is not the panel.

 

To anyone else reading this, this item should be in your spare parts. Some people will use and ruin a screwdriver to do the same thing but this is much safer.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 3:40 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

 

For a couple of years I have had an issue ,where I turn the key and nothing happens, or the blower may come on and then turning the key further results in the blower going off. It seems to be a condition where there is an electrical contact ,but when additional load is required ,the contact is broken. I can go months without this occurring , but it does, and I need to resolve it ,before it gets me into trouble. I have a new starter battery and starter ,so that is not the issue. I have in the past turned the battery switches off and on repeatedly and then been able to start the engine ,but not always. We met up with Delos in the Caribbean  a few times and I know Brian disassembled his switches to clean the contacts.But I did not ask if he was having starting issues , I guess I assumed he did. Before I go to the trouble of doing that, I was wondering if other owners have had such an issue and cleaned their switches . Is there other possible causes I should look at first. It would not be easy to get the pins out of the handles , and disconnect all the cables in order to disassemble the switches ,so I don't want to do it if it has never been an issue before, I have never heard anyone in all these years mention a problem with the switch contacts.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: Intermittent starting issue

 

Mark,

I believe if that works on your Amel, the Negative Solenoid is defeated, bypassed, or not installed.

The negative solenoid closes by the key action when the key is moved to "start."

I think it might be possible to connect a remote starter switch to the starter relay which controls both the starter solenoid and the negative solenoid.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

Pat,

 

Here’s a thought. When the engine doesn’t crank, use a remote starter switch to bypass the panel. This connects to the solenoid on the starter (the small terminal marked “s” and the pos battery terminal – thick red cable). This will completely bypass the panel at the helm.

This will help isolate your issue. If the engine cranks, you’ll know the issue is in the panel or harness (probably a poor connection). If it doesn’t crank it is not the panel.

 

To anyone else reading this, this item should be in your spare parts. Some people will use and ruin a screwdriver to do the same thing but this is much safer.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 3:40 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

 

For a couple of years I have had an issue ,where I turn the key and nothing happens, or the blower may come on and then turning the key further results in the blower going off. It seems to be a condition where there is an electrical contact ,but when additional load is required ,the contact is broken. I can go months without this occurring , but it does, and I need to resolve it ,before it gets me into trouble. I have a new starter battery and starter ,so that is not the issue. I have in the past turned the battery switches off and on repeatedly and then been able to start the engine ,but not always. We met up with Delos in the Caribbean  a few times and I know Brian disassembled his switches to clean the contacts.But I did not ask if he was having starting issues , I guess I assumed he did. Before I go to the trouble of doing that, I was wondering if other owners have had such an issue and cleaned their switches . Is there other possible causes I should look at first. It would not be easy to get the pins out of the handles , and disconnect all the cables in order to disassemble the switches ,so I don't want to do it if it has never been an issue before, I have never heard anyone in all these years mention a problem with the switch contacts.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: Intermittent starting issue

Mark Erdos
 

Pat,

 

Here’s a thought. When the engine doesn’t crank, use a remote starter switch to bypass the panel. This connects to the solenoid on the starter (the small terminal marked “s” and the pos battery terminal – thick red cable). This will completely bypass the panel at the helm.

This will help isolate your issue. If the engine cranks, you’ll know the issue is in the panel or harness (probably a poor connection). If it doesn’t crank it is not the panel.

 

To anyone else reading this, this item should be in your spare parts. Some people will use and ruin a screwdriver to do the same thing but this is much safer.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 3:40 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

 

For a couple of years I have had an issue ,where I turn the key and nothing happens, or the blower may come on and then turning the key further results in the blower going off. It seems to be a condition where there is an electrical contact ,but when additional load is required ,the contact is broken. I can go months without this occurring , but it does, and I need to resolve it ,before it gets me into trouble. I have a new starter battery and starter ,so that is not the issue. I have in the past turned the battery switches off and on repeatedly and then been able to start the engine ,but not always. We met up with Delos in the Caribbean  a few times and I know Brian disassembled his switches to clean the contacts.But I did not ask if he was having starting issues , I guess I assumed he did. Before I go to the trouble of doing that, I was wondering if other owners have had such an issue and cleaned their switches . Is there other possible causes I should look at first. It would not be easy to get the pins out of the handles , and disconnect all the cables in order to disassemble the switches ,so I don't want to do it if it has never been an issue before, I have never heard anyone in all these years mention a problem with the switch contacts.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: Intermittent starting issue

Mark Erdos
 

Pat,

 

How is it resolved. Do you just try again and it works, or what?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 3:40 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

 

For a couple of years I have had an issue ,where I turn the key and nothing happens, or the blower may come on and then turning the key further results in the blower going off. It seems to be a condition where there is an electrical contact ,but when additional load is required ,the contact is broken. I can go months without this occurring , but it does, and I need to resolve it ,before it gets me into trouble. I have a new starter battery and starter ,so that is not the issue. I have in the past turned the battery switches off and on repeatedly and then been able to start the engine ,but not always. We met up with Delos in the Caribbean  a few times and I know Brian disassembled his switches to clean the contacts.But I did not ask if he was having starting issues , I guess I assumed he did. Before I go to the trouble of doing that, I was wondering if other owners have had such an issue and cleaned their switches . Is there other possible causes I should look at first. It would not be easy to get the pins out of the handles , and disconnect all the cables in order to disassemble the switches ,so I don't want to do it if it has never been an issue before, I have never heard anyone in all these years mention a problem with the switch contacts.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: Intermittent starting issue

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, Sometimes the blower does not come on ,but more often it does come on ,however when I turn the key further to engage the starter ,nothing happens and the blower shuts off as well. That is why I said it seems that there may be enough contact to power the blower ,but when more load (starter) is engaged the electrical contact is broken .
Thanks ,
Pat
SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 14, 2021 10:22 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

Pat,

Intermittent failures can be such… fun.

If I understand correctly, when you have this issue with starting, the blowers do not run as well.  That narrows down the likely causes quite a bit.  

The key switch, or the wiring around it would be my prime suspect, although it could be other things too.  12V power comes from the engine, up to the key switch.  When the switch is “ON” the power is sent back to the engine, and to the relays that turn on the blowers.  If the blowers and the starter are showing common failure, then the fault must be before the wires divide on the positive side, or maybe after they come together on the negative side back to the battery.

Another place to look is the isolating relay in the ground wire.  If that is intermittent in operation, or has bad contacts, to could interrupt the circuit on the return side.  I think this is unlikely, because the blower negative return is connected on the battery side of this. Other than those two, its a matter of pulling and cleaning connections to be sure contact is good.

Key switches on both Volvo and Yanmar panels are not 100% waterproof, maybe a bit less so with the key left in.  A drop or two of salt water inside, and things can get unreliable. I have never disassembled one to clean it, although I have replaced them.

Bill Kinney
SM Harmonie
Brunswick, GA, USA


Re: Intermittent starting issue

Bill Kinney
 

Pat,

Intermittent failures can be such… fun.

If I understand correctly, when you have this issue with starting, the blowers do not run as well.  That narrows down the likely causes quite a bit.  

The key switch, or the wiring around it would be my prime suspect, although it could be other things too.  12V power comes from the engine, up to the key switch.  When the switch is “ON” the power is sent back to the engine, and to the relays that turn on the blowers.  If the blowers and the starter are showing common failure, then the fault must be before the wires divide on the positive side, or maybe after they come together on the negative side back to the battery.

Another place to look is the isolating relay in the ground wire.  If that is intermittent in operation, or has bad contacts, to could interrupt the circuit on the return side.  I think this is unlikely, because the blower negative return is connected on the battery side of this. Other than those two, its a matter of pulling and cleaning connections to be sure contact is good.

Key switches on both Volvo and Yanmar panels are not 100% waterproof, maybe a bit less so with the key left in.  A drop or two of salt water inside, and things can get unreliable. I have never disassembled one to clean it, although I have replaced them.

Bill Kinney
SM Harmonie
Brunswick, GA, USA


Intermittent starting issue

Patrick McAneny
 

For a couple of years I have had an issue ,where I turn the key and nothing happens, or the blower may come on and then turning the key further results in the blower going off. It seems to be a condition where there is an electrical contact ,but when additional load is required ,the contact is broken. I can go months without this occurring , but it does, and I need to resolve it ,before it gets me into trouble. I have a new starter battery and starter ,so that is not the issue. I have in the past turned the battery switches off and on repeatedly and then been able to start the engine ,but not always. We met up with Delos in the Caribbean  a few times and I know Brian disassembled his switches to clean the contacts.But I did not ask if he was having starting issues , I guess I assumed he did. Before I go to the trouble of doing that, I was wondering if other owners have had such an issue and cleaned their switches . Is there other possible causes I should look at first. It would not be easy to get the pins out of the handles , and disconnect all the cables in order to disassemble the switches ,so I don't want to do it if it has never been an issue before, I have never heard anyone in all these years mention a problem with the switch contacts.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: A54 service alternator stoped working #ZOOM

Gregory Dmitriev
 

Hi guys, 
the issue resolved.
It was 10amp fuse on the positive poll of the alternator.

thanks to everybody.


Re: Running cables between Engine Room and Battery Compartment

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Brains Trust,
Thank you all for your swift and accurate guidance.
A problem shared and all that. 

best regards
Dean
SV Stella
A54-154


Re: Running cables between Engine Room and Battery Compartment

Dominique Sery
 

Bill,
Yes, the way is very easy from the galley locker (behind the 230 v panel) to the engine room. You only need to remove a plywood in the cockpit locker (4 screws)
Dominique
A54#16

Envoyé de mon iPhone


Re: Running cables between Engine Room and Battery Compartment

Arno Luijten
 

To run the cables from the ceiling to the engine compartment you route them via the cabinet that holds the steering rack. From there there is a hole down into the cavity behind the watermaker panel (for most A54s). So you remove this panel just enough to reach behind it. Next you can route the cables along the same path as where the blue watermaker tube is situated. There is plenty capacity for more cables. I added about a dozen or so. 

The most challenging part is behind the ceiling to the cover in the passageway. 

You don’t remove all ceiling panels as only a few hide a hole to access the cavity behind it. A tool to pull cables through (?) is usefull. 


Cheers,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Running cables between Engine Room and Battery Compartment

 

Dominique,

That is the best way for any cable except the large battery cables. One note you can do is once, inside the cabinet above the galley sink, I believe that you can follow the route of the 220-volt wiring from the main 220-volt panel to the engine room. I think that this may be a little easier.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 7:04 AM Dominique Sery via groups.io <dominiquesery=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello Dean and Jamie, for the data cables between the battery compartment and the engine room, I followed the following path: mounted in the locker above the berth (towards the front), passage in the roof which communicates with the  roof above the staircase, retrieval of the wires above the galley behind the 230 v panel, passage in the cockpit locker (on port side) where there is a board to unscrew, access to the engine room arrives at the  top of the watermaker.  no hole to make.  I passed all of my small section cables by this way.
Dominique
Irko A54#16


Re: A54 service alternator stoped working #ZOOM

 

It could be a lot of things. 

If the alternator comes on (Self-Excites) when you quickly raise the RPM to about 1500, it is the Excite circuit and possibly the relay or its connections. This relay activates when the 12-volt ignition circuit is ON. The 12-volt ignition closes a switch inside the relay that sends 24-volts to excite the alternator. This is a very common relay used in many things including autos. Most of the time failures are loose or corroded wiring.

The schematic below was posted here some time ago by Arno Luijten.
image.png

image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 4:11 AM Gregory Dmitriev <41greg.marine@...> wrote:
Hi all,
Service alternator A54 stoped working in the middle of motoring passage.

Any ideas what can happen?

thx

Greg


Re: Running cables between Engine Room and Battery Compartment

Dean Gillies
 

Barry and Penny,
Wow, those are big cables!
im taking the easy route over the ceiling for my data cables.
best
Dean
SV Stella
A54-154


Re: Running cables between Engine Room and Battery Compartment

Dominique Sery
 

On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 01:11 AM, Dean Gillies wrote:
Dominique,
That's perfect thanks.  Do I need to remove all the ceiling panels in the galley and across to the chart table, or is there a trick?
Thanks
Dean
SV Stella
A54-154
Hello Dean,
i removed all the ceiling panels but you need to remove only the panels with lights. Under the panels (fixed with Velcro) there is plywood with holes for the lights.
Itis very easy to remove the ceiling panels (no tools), with your fingers. It’s the Amel passage for all the wires between the chart table and the battery locker to the electric panels, the helm and the engine room.
Dominique


Re: Running cables between Engine Room and Battery Compartment

Barry Connor
 

Hi Dean,
A small chisel and hammer, takes a few hours. What you see is what needs to be chiseled away, the tube into the engine room is full of foam. Once you have chiseled away the epoxy you can pull out the foam.
See below photo, have not fully filled back the epoxy.
Best
Barry and Penny
“SV Lady Penelope II”
AMEL 54.  #17
Le Marin Marina 
Martinique 



On Jul 13, 2021, at 08:04, Dominique Sery via groups.io <dominiquesery@...> wrote:

Hello Dean and Jamie, for the data cables between the battery compartment and the engine room, I followed the following path: mounted in the locker above the berth (towards the front), passage in the roof which communicates with the  roof above the staircase, retrieval of the wires above the galley behind the 230 v panel, passage in the cockpit locker (on port side) where there is a board to unscrew, access to the engine room arrives at the  top of the watermaker.  no hole to make.  I passed all of my small section cables by this way.
Dominique
Irko A54#16


Re: Running cables between Engine Room and Battery Compartment

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Jamie,
I don't need to run DC power cables, so I prefer Dominique's suggested Routing to busting out that epoxy!!
Best regards
Dean
SV Stella
A54-154


Re: Running cables between Engine Room and Battery Compartment

Dean Gillies
 

Dominique,
That's perfect thanks.  Do I need to remove all the ceiling panels in the galley and across to the chart table, or is there a trick?
Thanks
Dean
SV Stella
A54-154


Re: Running cables between Engine Room and Battery Compartment

Dominique Sery
 

And i did not change the DC wires. No hole.


Re: Running cables between Engine Room and Battery Compartment

Dominique Sery
 

Hello Dean and Jamie, for the data cables between the battery compartment and the engine room, I followed the following path: mounted in the locker above the berth (towards the front), passage in the roof which communicates with the  roof above the staircase, retrieval of the wires above the galley behind the 230 v panel, passage in the cockpit locker (on port side) where there is a board to unscrew, access to the engine room arrives at the  top of the watermaker.  no hole to make.  I passed all of my small section cables by this way.
Dominique
Irko A54#16

1201 - 1220 of 60138