Date   

locked Re: Batteries starting to get weak - MMM - What to do -

Paul Osterberg
 

I ordered 16x270 Ah prismatic cells from China for a DIY system, guess i get them 5-6 weeks from now, That will give me 540 Ah 24 volt, probably go for a rec BMS (compatible with Victron system), will make video and post on the forum when ready. Will take ample time for installations as it is a few cables that I will replace and tidy up when I'm at it. For the one who use drop in, make sure they not only rated to run your bowthruster but also capable in real life, in some drop in the internat cables and BMS are not for high loads. can recommend Will Prowse on youtube very illustrative and easy to follow, he have teared a few drop in batteris apart and had a look what was inside, some of them you do not want to have onboard.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259, lags, Portugal sykerpa.com


Zoom meeting - QSails owner/manager will present sails for Amels - Sat, 09/12/2020 20:00-21:00, Please RSVP #cal-reminder

main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Calendar <main@...>
 

Reminder: Zoom meeting - QSails owner/manager will present sails for Amels

When: Saturday, 12 September 2020, 20:00 to 21:00, (GMT+00:00) UTC

An RSVP is requested. Click here to RSVP

Description: Time will be 2000 UTC.

Over 60 Amel owners have purchased sails from QSails, Izmir, Turkey. QSails has shipped these sails worldwide. Emrah Oge, owner, manager, and avid sailor will present how sails are made and some key points to be aware of in the selection of sails for your Amel. 

QSails offers very fast shipments of sails for many Amel models. In fact, many Amel sails are actually shipped from pre-made stock at QSails.

To ensure that you get the best quality and the best price, QSails and Amel owners have designed 3 simple choices for you of Good, Better, and Best:

GOOD - CrossCut AP Dacron is a quote for budget-minded Super Maramu owners who would like a Dacron polyester cross-cut sail similar to what Doyle Sails provides.
BETTER - TriRadial Cut Pro Radial Dimension/Polyant Dacron is a quote for those owners wanting a very high-quality Dacron Polyester fiber sailcloth from the German company Dimension-Polyant. It is cut and assembled in a TriRadial configuration. This is a slightly higher quality sail with the same TriRadial construction that your Super Maramu had when new.
BEST
- HydraNet TriRadial Cut is a quote for TriRadial Cut HydraNet from the German company Dimension-Polyant. I consider Dimension-Polyant the best sailcloth manufacturer in the world, and HydraNet the best sailcloth...it will not stretch.

Zoom link for the meeting:

Topic: AYOG Monthly Zoom Meeting: QSails

Time: Sep 12, 2020 20:00 Greenwich Mean Time

Join Zoom Meeting

https://epfl.zoom.us/j/94687396754

Meeting ID: 946 8739 6754

Link for the Youtube stream: https://youtu.be/nQob9dJu3RE

 


Re: Hose in holding tank

Annsofie & Jonas Svanberg
 

Nope, not at all. 

Regards
Ann-Sofie 


Skickat från min iPhone

10 sep. 2020 kl. 18:24 skrev Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...>:

Lady Annila Thank you!
Now I understand, not very user friendly solution, not very Amel at all.
Paul


Re: Hose in holding tank

Paul Osterberg
 

Lady Annila Thank you!
Now I understand, not very user friendly solution, not very Amel at all.
Paul


Re: Hose in holding tank

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Paul, to avoid build up, we pump out the bowl fully then flush with  minimum of 25 strokes. 

We also use a mild acid solution to clean out this pipe when on the hard. 

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM 007


On 11/09/2020, at 5:09 AM, Annsofie & Jonas Svanberg <ann-sofie@...> wrote:

It is possible. It takes a lot of black words though 😄.
Use whatever tool you have to loosen the copper tube from the plastic. It is not screwed inplace more like glued in place.

Regards
Ann-Sofie & Jonas
S/Y Lady Annila, SM232, 1998


Skickat från min iPhone

10 sep. 2020 kl. 17:38 skrev Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...>:

I have build up in the hose inside the holding tank. To me it looks as magic, how did the mount that one? Is it possible to replace? How?
Paul on sykerpa SM 259, Lagos Portugal 
<IMG_20200909_100821.jpg>


Re: Oil Pressure Volvo D3 I - C

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Thank you for your reports to the forum. I can absolutely support Arno and Mohamad
Our 110-IC is still running strong and has been very reliable with over 3000 hours. Touch wood ;-)

Fair winds
Ruedi & Sabina Waldispuehl
WASABI 
A54-#055


Re: Scuba compressor recommendations

Porter McRoberts
 

We bought a used Bauer Junior II. 230/50hz. Wired it directly to the breaker board.  We keep it in the port side cockpit lazarette and run it in the cockpit. The coolest, shadiest most well ventilated spot.  They last forever, and are built to be used commercially filling tanks all day every day. 
It’s heavy, but bulletproof, filters are actually getting cheaper with time and easily found. Very minimal maintenance, and easy to use. 
Many put them in the ER. We simply have no room down there. 

Pretty amazing to dive in the most out of way places. West coast of Ua-Pou. Palmerston. Hapai group Tonga. This am White valley in Tahiti: went yesterday, probably one of the best dives of my life, but easy to get your tank filled in Tahiti!  Best of luck!



Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Sep 10, 2020, at 6:18 AM, Arlo <svplanb@...> wrote:

hello all, I plan to install a SCUBA compressor to fill the tanks and it will run using my 5.5 kw genset. Looking for recommendations on makes and model from those that have them onboard. 


Re: Hose in holding tank

Annsofie & Jonas Svanberg
 

It is possible. It takes a lot of black words though 😄.
Use whatever tool you have to loosen the copper tube from the plastic. It is not screwed inplace more like glued in place.

Regards
Ann-Sofie & Jonas
S/Y Lady Annila, SM232, 1998


Skickat från min iPhone

10 sep. 2020 kl. 17:38 skrev Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...>:

I have build up in the hose inside the holding tank. To me it looks as magic, how did the mount that one? Is it possible to replace? How?
Paul on sykerpa SM 259, Lagos Portugal 
<IMG_20200909_100821.jpg>


locked Re: Batteries starting to get weak - MMM - What to do -

Sheriffdep
 

Elja,   I am pretty sure ALL lifePo4 batteries have a built in BMS inside the casing. So each battery has one. You would NOT want one for a whole bank from what I understand. If that were to malfunction then you could lose the whole system rather than just one battery. The BMS is what regulates the charging and making sure all cells charge up evenly. 


Hose in holding tank

Paul Osterberg
 

I have build up in the hose inside the holding tank. To me it looks as magic, how did the mount that one? Is it possible to replace? How?
Paul on sykerpa SM 259, Lagos Portugal 


Scuba compressor recommendations

Arlo
 

hello all, I plan to install a SCUBA compressor to fill the tanks and it will run using my 5.5 kw genset. Looking for recommendations on makes and model from those that have them onboard. 


Bowthruster motor switch

Peter Tiner
 

Hi

We need to put in a new bow thruster motor (Sleipner). We had a Sleipner technician looking at it and sent us a new motor. So far everything looked alright but when our technician loosened the motor and lifted it, the driveshaft came along a bit, maybe 20cm. Now he can’t get it back. 

We believe the original Sleipner shaft is lengthened  just above the gearbox with a keyway (proper English word?) and now the key is somehow disorientated

Has anyone had this problem or tried switching motor without getting out of water?

\Peter sy Maiken A54 #52


Re: Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes

Patrick McAneny
 

Craig, I should not have used psi to convey what I meant, I always operate my W/M  at the low end of the green zone in salt water, and in fresh water the couple of times I have ran it just to be sure it was functional ,I kept the pressure slightly below the green zone. I don't even know what the psi is at the green zone . I just made sure that it did not go into the green or exceed normal water production level. Once again I only ran it for a short period to confirm functionality .
It obviously takes less psi to push fresh water thru the membranes and that is what I was trying to convey and was warned about by the manufacturer. Having said that ,he said providing you don't exceed the pressure limits ,it was fine to use your W/M in fresh water ,and many do.
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Briggs via groups.io <sangaris@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 10, 2020 1:13 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes

Hi Pat,
If you run 800 psi in fresh water you will definitely damage your membrane. You want to limit the product water flow to that rated for the membrane in terms of LPH or GPH, definitely not the 800 +/- PSI for ocean water.  
Your sentence about "keep it a little lower and warning that it will get up to "max" more quickly" is telling - "max" is the maximum flow for the membrane, and that is reached at very low pressure in fresh water. The words "keep it a little lower" are hugely understated, as 200-300 psi is typically the fresh water range.  Actually, household RO systems operate without any pump at all, just the water service pressure in the range of 35 psi or so. 
--
SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


locked Re: Batteries starting to get weak - MMM - What to do -

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Ken
i ask Victron for his batteries a BMS for all batteries
There is my concern if this fails and it is not noticed all batteries damaged if each battery has a BMS is only one damaged.

Elja

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


locked Re: Batteries starting to get weak - MMM - What to do -

Sheriffdep
 

Elja,

Each LifePo4 battery has some type of BMS. Most are internal. IT manages the charge and draw down for each of the cells inside it. Prevents overcharging, prevents draining the battery, and makes sure the cells are evenly charging and discharging among other things. ALL BMS's are not equal. There are quality issues with many on the market. 


locked Re: Batteries starting to get weak - MMM - What to do -

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

He Ken
So i think shout prevere 24 V batteries with a BMS on each batterie ?? Is it right ?

Thanks
Elja
SM Balu 222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Re: Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Pat,
If you run 800 psi in fresh water you will definitely damage your membrane. You want to limit the product water flow to that rated for the membrane in terms of LPH or GPH, definitely not the 800 +/- PSI for ocean water.  
Your sentence about "keep it a little lower and warning that it will get up to "max" more quickly" is telling - "max" is the maximum flow for the membrane, and that is reached at very low pressure in fresh water. The words "keep it a little lower" are hugely understated, as 200-300 psi is typically the fresh water range.  Actually, household RO systems operate without any pump at all, just the water service pressure in the range of 35 psi or so. 
--
SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


locked Re: Batteries starting to get weak - MMM - What to do -

Sheriffdep
 
Edited

This is my first posting to the forum. I am planning out my future with a buddy for circumnavigation and living on the boat. I am going to get either a SM2k or a Beneteau 57. Batteries are a huge plan for me. I have done tons of research on what to use and what my plans are. Most likely our usage will be as much as Delos (200+ amphr daily). During the Zoom meeting there were places for questions that were not answered. 

Denis - Yes Bill and Battle Born did recommend the 24v  over the 12v. BUT..... the BMS used in Battle born, whether the 12v or 24v batteries, will balance the cells just fine and going with the 24v ones won't make a difference. The Battle Born rep even said that but if you weren't paying attention closely you would miss it. The BB BMS are robust and the batteries are built better than all the rest being made these days. Worth the extra expense. However, IF BB would make a 24v with more than 100 amp hr capacity, in the same size Group 31, and price it lower than 2x the 12v price, I would be highly interested in that setup. Due to the 50amp hr current size it still would take 8x of them. I would rather do the 12v ones which allow for that emergency usage. 

As a thought - I also am considering if purchasing the SM2k doing a separate 12v bank purely for electronic usage and anything 12v. The Beneteau 57 has a 280amp hr bank for that and separated the 24v bank. Haven't done the calculations for that completely but would dedicate 1x solar panel for keeping that topped off (engine alternator when running also) and be able to charge cameras, flashlights, and run the depth and wind MFd's all day everyday without draining any of the main battery bank. Might be a bit over the top, but it would help. Options for extending the banks could be to put 2x extra 24v bank batteries in the aft clothes locker beside the bank or put them beside the nav station on the floor. Putting that extra pair should be fine as long as all the wires running to the unswitched distribution block from all the pairs are of equal length. That way they will all charge and discharge the same. 

Solar panels - I also noticed MOST people, lets say having 3x panels, have one MPPT to charge the bank. That one MPPT is the same cost as what 3x MPPT's would be for each panel due to inputed power levels. So if you had 3x MPPTs you would have complete redundancy if one went bad. Same cost. 


Starter -  yes if you use 24v ones you would have to have a step down to 12v for that power. 

Phillippe - Please watch on YouTube    DIY with Will Prowse  and he shows PLENTY of low prices LiFEPo4 12v Group 31 batteries that are taken apart and investigated. He always finds issues with them such as not producing the stated amp hrs they should, cheaply made BMS circuits, incorrect sized wires inside the batteries, and poor sodering of terminals inside. Some could melt due to high flows of amps pulled during usage due to incorrect wires and some mislabeled relays. Make your decision off your research and what you can learn from those informational videos. 

I watch Ken's videos and enjoy them. I will be for sure watching his new setup and seeing how it works out. Same for Delos - most don't know and I don't think Brian mentioned it during the Zoom video but they had a 8x 12v 100amp hr setup.  Not sure why but about 2 yrs into it (July 2020) they changed those out for new BB batteries and I wonder why. If aiming for higher amp hrs I get it. But I am highly interested in when his video in a month or so comes out to find out why they changed them. 

I have done some minor estimations ---   if you use 200 amp hrs daily, and also have 900w of solar, you will cycle (each cycle is one full discharge of a battery bank capacity) once per 3 days or so. That is a bit over 115 cycles per year living on the boat. If the LiFPo4 batteries get 4k+ cycles (85% capacity at that time) that would be 40 yrs of usage. If that is the case then spending 2-300 more per battery to get the BB ones, which are the best, seems highly worth spending that extra money rather than trying to find a steal. This is the lifeblood of the vessel and something you will use every day so why risk it. This is of course IMHO. 

PS - If we all could run the AC unit or units off the bank I am sure we would. However take a look at the Gone with the Wynns website and on there they have a video explain a "soft start" modual that attaches to the ac unit and will drastically lower the amp hrs used and keep the kick start amp hrs way down. It manipulates the start up sequence to prevent the spike. This possibly if utilized would allow more usage of the AC's in a hot climate. I will be installing at least 1 if not for all three units. 

Hope this helps as I am learning myself


locked Re: Batteries starting to get weak - MMM - What to do -

Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 

Hi Scott,

Actually, I only run the AC for 3 to 4 hours because I don't want to cycle the batteries too low, and I also want to save battery for the next day.  If the batteries are full,  I could run the AC all night long.  But, it is still a game changer just to get the cabin cooled down, so I can get to sleep.  40Amps x 10 hours, should not be a problem.

My batteries cost $1800 each, so I spent $3600 on the batteries (plus $500 shipping totaling $4100).  But, for 600AH at 24V, that is an amazing price.  It is almost as cheep as building the batteries yourself out of single cells, and buying a good BMS.  O, and this is cheaper than getting good AGM's.   I would consider using single cells next time where I get to choose the BMS.

I have done a lot of research on LiFePO4 batteries, and catastrophic failure of a LiFePO4 battery is probably rarer than that of lead acid.  You can short them, shoot them, or overcharge them and though they will be destroyed, they are not going to burn.  Today, the weak link in the LiFePO4 batteries is the BMS.  Almost all cells used by any reputable battery manufacturers are, 1) made in China, and 2) pretty dam good.  They should all last about 5000 cycles if used and maintained properly.  

Cheers,

Ken



Re: Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes

Sv Garulfo
 



141L/h for the Duo100? I’ve never experienced that, even with brand new (2017) membranes at 500h operation in the Med or during the following 400h of operation in the Atlantic tropics and the Pacific tropics. 

We carefully monitor production and with pressure set at the lower end of the green zone, the flow-meter points to 75L/h and the actual production rate (at least according to the Amel fresh water tank floating gauge) is ~80L/h. 
If i push the pressure to the middle of the green zone, I can get the flow meter to read 100L/h but i was under the impression (and instruction from previous owner) that the safer pressure was at the bottom of the green zone. 

Am i missing something? I’d love 141L/h. (Maybe our freshwater tank is bigger than the gauge thinks 😜)


Thanks 
Thomas 
A54-122
Bora-Bora 




On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 at 08:50, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

I learned something today with from a great 54 owner, from Dessalator, and from reading the recent specifications sheet for Filmtec SW30 membranes.

·        The actual pressure for the Green Zone on a Dessalator high-pressure gauge is between 60 and 65 BAR

·        In normal seawater temperature and salinity and at 55 BAR the SW30 series of membranes will produce:

o   SW30 2521 = 47 liters/hour or 3*47 = 141 liters/hour

o   SW30 2540 = 109 liters/hour or 2*109 = 218 liters/hour

·        Obviously the production rate with pressure set inside the Green Bar (60-65 BAR), will be greater than the above

·        Dialing back the pressure to change the product water production to the original specs of the watermaker may cause the water maker to shut down.

My statement of reducing the pressure to set the produced water in the sight-glass at the original output for the D50/60, D100, and D160 is no longer valid for normal water temperature and salinity. And the D160 with new membranes will produce over 200 liters/hour.

 

WARNING: Filmtec has increased the efficiency of these membranes and depending on the age of your membrane(s) you may not see the increased production.


I attach the Filmtec Spec Sheet that I refer to:



I hope this helps and clears up things.


Bill