Date   
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: rig tuning

Ryan Meador
 

Steve, thanks for the data, that's very helpful.

Craig, thank you also for your advice.  That's a great rule of thumb.  I have The Complete Rigger's Apprentice, which discusses rig tuning a bit, but not as much as I'd hoped before I bought it.  I will definitely read the booklet you mentioned (which is perhaps this free PDF?).

I suspect the slight looseness in my rig is because the wire has stretched over time.  It was quite tight when I bought the boat, and I think the boat hadn't been sailed much by the previous owner after he replaced the standing rigging.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 12:40 PM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ryan,

I'd recommend Selden Mast's booklet Hints and Advice on Rig Tuning - you can download the pdf. They give a neat "folding rule" method (pg 32) of determining tension based on the fact that 2 meters of any diameter of 1X19 wire stretches 1mm for each 5% of breaking strength applied.

So, for example, if you want to tension your 12mm cap stays to 20% (Amel tight, maybe!) just tighten them until 2 meters stretches by 4 mm. That stretch will give you about 5600 pounds of tension, as the breaking strength is about 28000.

The Loos gauge doesn't handle wire over 10mm (actually 9.5 mm as it's rated for 3/8) and only goes up to 4500 pounds. That's why the results Nance and Underwood gave Steve Morrison in his post just show "very tight" for his 12mm stays.

After you get a sense for "very tight" you'll get to trust just feeling the stays and being able to judge if they're right. And use Joel's suggestion to go out, sail upwind in a good breeze and see if your lee shrouds are at all slack. If yes, they're way too loose. Oh yeah, and recheck after a while as the wire will stretch over time.

On the headstay there is a turnbuckle screw under the furler. ACMO just calls it "special" , as it's shorter than standard ones so the furler can be closer to the deck.

Have fun tuning!
Craig Briggs SN68 Sangaris


---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, wrote :


Hi all,

I'm about to embark upon tuning up my rig, which I feel is a little loose, but I'd love some guidance on how to do that.  I've scoured the archives of this list and found many mentions of guides from both Joel Potter and Olivier Beaute, but I haven't been able to find them.  The best guide I've found thus far is this one.   Can anyone link me to the gold standard(s)?

Also, has anyone done the tuning in a more scientific way, with a Loos Gauge?  I'm struggling to understand via qualitative descriptions just how tight is tight.  I think a quantitative measurement would be very helpful.

And finally, how does one adjust the forestay tension?  I admittedly have not studied it in depth, but I didn't see a turnbuckle or any other obvious mechanism.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


Re: rig tuning

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

Hi Ryan,

I'd recommend Selden Mast's booklet Hints and Advice on Rig Tuning - you can download the pdf. They give a neat "folding rule" method (pg 32) of determining tension based on the fact that 2 meters of any diameter of 1X19 wire stretches 1mm for each 5% of breaking strength applied.

So, for example, if you want to tension your 12mm cap stays to 20% (Amel tight, maybe!) just tighten them until 2 meters stretches by 4 mm. That stretch will give you about 5600 pounds of tension, as the breaking strength is about 28000.

The Loos gauge doesn't handle wire over 10mm (actually 9.5 mm as it's rated for 3/8) and only goes up to 4500 pounds. That's why the results Nance and Underwood gave Steve Morrison in his post just show "very tight" for his 12mm stays.

After you get a sense for "very tight" you'll get to trust just feeling the stays and being able to judge if they're right. And use Joel's suggestion to go out, sail upwind in a good breeze and see if your lee shrouds are at all slack. If yes, they're way too loose. Oh yeah, and recheck after a while as the wire will stretch over time.

On the headstay there is a turnbuckle screw under the furler. ACMO just calls it "special" , as it's shorter than standard ones so the furler can be closer to the deck.

Have fun tuning!
Craig Briggs SN68 Sangaris


---In amelyachtowners@..., <ryan.d.meador@...> wrote :

Hi all,

I'm about to embark upon tuning up my rig, which I feel is a little loose, but I'd love some guidance on how to do that.  I've scoured the archives of this list and found many mentions of guides from both Joel Potter and Olivier Beaute, but I haven't been able to find them.  The best guide I've found thus far is this one.   Can anyone link me to the gold standard(s)?

Also, has anyone done the tuning in a more scientific way, with a Loos Gauge?  I'm struggling to understand via qualitative descriptions just how tight is tight.  I think a quantitative measurement would be very helpful.

And finally, how does one adjust the forestay tension?  I admittedly have not studied it in depth, but I didn't see a turnbuckle or any other obvious mechanism.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

Re: Raising the waterline aft on SM

Miles
 

Hi Gary,

 

When I was at the factory, I  also asked Jean-Jacque about the water line.  As best as I can recall, he said that it looked better and that the boat would not get an ugly yellow mustache if it motored though dirty water. 

 

Regards,

Miles

s/y Ladybug, sm216. Le Marin, Martinique

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] rig tuning

Stephen Morrison <steve_morrison@...>
 

I had Nance and Underwood (Ft. Lauderdale) replace my rig the winter and this is a photo of the guide they followed for tensioning my SM380



Steve Morrison
SM380 TouRai
Hilton Head, SC

On May 16, 2018, at 10:15 AM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,

I'm about to embark upon tuning up my rig, which I feel is a little loose, but I'd love some guidance on how to do that.  I've scoured the archives of this list and found many mentions of guides from both Joel Potter and Olivier Beaute, but I haven't been able to find them.  The best guide I've found thus far is this one.   Can anyone link me to the gold standard(s)?

Also, has anyone done the tuning in a more scientific way, with a Loos Gauge?  I'm struggling to understand via qualitative descriptions just how tight is tight.  I think a quantitative measurement would be very helpful.

And finally, how does one adjust the forestay tension?  I admittedly have not studied it in depth, but I didn't see a turnbuckle or any other obvious mechanism.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

rig tuning

Ryan Meador
 

Hi all,

I'm about to embark upon tuning up my rig, which I feel is a little loose, but I'd love some guidance on how to do that.  I've scoured the archives of this list and found many mentions of guides from both Joel Potter and Olivier Beaute, but I haven't been able to find them.  The best guide I've found thus far is this one.   Can anyone link me to the gold standard(s)?

Also, has anyone done the tuning in a more scientific way, with a Loos Gauge?  I'm struggling to understand via qualitative descriptions just how tight is tight.  I think a quantitative measurement would be very helpful.

And finally, how does one adjust the forestay tension?  I admittedly have not studied it in depth, but I didn't see a turnbuckle or any other obvious mechanism.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Propshaft wearing ring

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

Kent,
Yep, as I said in my post I did try the Speedi Sleeves. Wasn't happy that you have to use two to get the width you need, so you're left with bit of a burr when you remove the lip of the 2nd sleeve that seemed it could snag the lip seals as you slide them in. They did not wear out, though, like the WOB, just faint surface lines that passed the "fingernail test".
No problem with the 17-4 recommended by the SKF engineer. It's corrosion resistant and can he hardened up to Rc 40. 316 is only about 20 Rc.
Craig



---In amelyachtowners@..., <karkauai@...> wrote :

The Speedi-Sleeves, Craig.
I also wonder if the 17-4 SS would corrode over a 2-3 year time period.  

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243

Tried which, Kent? The SpeediSleeves or the 17-4 stainless WOB?
Craig

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Raising the waterline aft on SM

ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Gary,


 We raised the water line significantly when we applied Coppercoat eight years ago. We took the Coppercoat to the top of the orange stripe, left an inch or so above that and then added a new stripe.

  Only if this was pointed out to you would you notice the difference. If anything, it makes the hull look sleeker.

 Never again have we had to swim around the aft section to constantly clean and it reduces the area of hull to polish.

 We have made few changes to our Amel but in our book this  ( alongside the Coppercoat) is up there with the best.


 Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Piraeus


From: amelyachtowners@... on behalf of 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]
Sent: 16 May 2018 12:11:11
To: amelyachtowners@...; William Maffei
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Raising the waterline aft on SM
 


Gary,

I think that you are on the "right track," although 6" seems a little much to me. 

FYI, I saw a SM currently owned by Bill Maffei when prior to his ownership, the orange stripe was raised to a point where the bottom of the stripe location was on the line where the top had been. A 25mm gelcoat white stripe was applied under the new orange stripe. Maybe Bill will comment.

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 12:50 AM, amelliahona <no_reply@...> wrote:
 

Hello all:


As the hull repairs progress on our hull #335 SM from the Hurricane Maria/Irma damage, the idea of raising the waterline aft is being considered.  


Every Amel I have ever seen, regardless of model, does not set level on their lines ( waterline level with the water).  They  all have the waterline higher, by a significant amount, forward.  I noted this when I toured the factory when our boat was being built (looking at the waterline on the boats in the test tank at Chantiers Amel) and asked Jean-Jacque Lemonier (the CEO of Amel at the time) about it.  He replied that it was just because the rigging wasn't in place and assured me that it would be level once the rigging was in place.  Either we mis-communicated or every Amel ever built was intentionally made with the waterline higher forward.  


My aft anti-fouling isn't high enough to be effect, especially under the overhang of the transom and I am always scrubbing soft growth off that area as well as the bootstirpe for about 10 ft forward.  


Bill Rouse raised his waterline slightly along the entire length of the boat by eliminating the white stripe below the original bootstripe.  What I am proposing is leaving the bootstripe where it is forward and raising it 6 inches aft with a continuous level-line between.  It would still be higher forward than aft, but less of a gradient than the original.


I am seeking info from anyone with inside knowledge of why Amel made the boats like this and any experience with raising the waterline aft (both cosmetically and in solving the scrubbing problem). 


Thanks, 


Gary S. Silver, original an d only owner

Amel SM 2000 #335

s/v Liahona

At Island Marine, Inc. yard at Puerto Del Rey Marina, Puerto Rico






--



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Propshaft wearing ring

karkauai
 

The Speedi-Sleeves, Craig.
I also wonder if the 17-4 SS would corrode over a 2-3 year time period.  

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243

Tried which, Kent? The SpeediSleeves or the 17-4 stainless WOB?
Craig

Re: Raising the waterline aft on SM

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

Hi Gary,
I did exactly what you're contemplating. It works very well. I got the aft section high enough but a little narrow, but if you duplicate the width of the stripe all around you should be fine. The new stripe(s) in the aft section are totally above the originals.  I went with a deep Burgundy Red, rather than the Amel orange, but whatever strikes your fancy. 
Cheers, Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris, Ft Pierce, FL


---In amelyachtowners@..., <no_reply@...> wrote :

Hello all:


As the hull repairs progress on our hull #335 SM from the Hurricane Maria/Irma damage, the idea of raising the waterline aft is being considered.  


Every Amel I have ever seen, regardless of model, does not set level on their lines ( waterline level with the water).  They  all have the waterline higher, by a significant amount, forward.  I noted this when I toured the factory when our boat was being built (looking at the waterline on the boats in the test tank at Chantiers Amel) and asked Jean-Jacque Lemonier (the CEO of Amel at the time) about it.  He replied that it was just because the rigging wasn't in place and assured me that it would be level once the rigging was in place.  Either we mis-communicated or every Amel ever built was intentionally made with the waterline higher forward.  


My aft anti-fouling isn't high enough to be effect, especially under the overhang of the transom and I am always scrubbing soft growth off that area as well as the bootstirpe for about 10 ft forward.  


Bill Rouse raised his waterline slightly along the entire length of the boat by eliminating the white stripe below the original bootstripe.  What I am proposing is leaving the bootstripe where it is forward and raising it 6 inches aft with a continuous level-line between.  It would still be higher forward than aft, but less of a gradient than the original.


I am seeking info from anyone with inside knowledge of why Amel made the boats like this and any experience with raising the waterline aft (both cosmetically and in solving the scrubbing problem). 


Thanks, 


Gary S. Silver, original and only owner

Amel SM 2000 #335

s/v Liahona

At Island Marine, Inc. yard at Puerto Del Rey Marina, Puerto Rico



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Raising the waterline aft on SM

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Gary,

I think that you are on the "right track," although 6" seems a little much to me. 

FYI, I saw a SM currently owned by Bill Maffei when prior to his ownership, the orange stripe was raised to a point where the bottom of the stripe location was on the line where the top had been. A 25mm gelcoat white stripe was applied under the new orange stripe. Maybe Bill will comment.

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 12:50 AM, amelliahona <no_reply@...> wrote:
 

Hello all:


As the hull repairs progress on our hull #335 SM from the Hurricane Maria/Irma damage, the idea of raising the waterline aft is being considered.  


Every Amel I have ever seen, regardless of model, does not set level on their lines ( waterline level with the water).  They  all have the waterline higher, by a significant amount, forward.  I noted this when I toured the factory when our boat was being built (looking at the waterline on the boats in the test tank at Chantiers Amel) and asked Jean-Jacque Lemonier (the CEO of Amel at the time) about it.  He replied that it was just because the rigging wasn't in place and assured me that it would be level once the rigging was in place.  Either we mis-communicated or every Amel ever built was intentionally made with the waterline higher forward.  


My aft anti-fouling isn't high enough to be effect, especially under the overhang of the transom and I am always scrubbing soft growth off that area as well as the bootstirpe for about 10 ft forward.  


Bill Rouse raised his waterline slightly along the entire length of the boat by eliminating the white stripe below the original bootstripe.  What I am proposing is leaving the bootstripe where it is forward and raising it 6 inches aft with a continuous level-line between.  It would still be higher forward than aft, but less of a gradient than the original.


I am seeking info from anyone with inside knowledge of why Amel made the boats like this and any experience with raising the waterline aft (both cosmetically and in solving the scrubbing problem). 


Thanks, 


Gary S. Silver, original an d only owner

Amel SM 2000 #335

s/v Liahona

At Island Marine, Inc. yard at Puerto Del Rey Marina, Puerto Rico






--

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Propshaft wearing ring

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

Tried which, Kent? The SpeediSleeves or the 17-4 stainless WOB?
Craig
---In amelyachtowners@..., <karkauai@...> wrote :
Hmmm, have you tried it yet? Maybe not an ideal situation.
Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On May 15, 2018, at 3:36 PM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

---In amelyachtowners@..., <karkauai@...> wrote :

Does anybody know the size of the Speedi-Sleeve needed for the WOB? I remember someone posted it but can’t find it now.
If 316 stainless isn’t hard enough, what material is recommended for a machined WOB or Speedi-Sleeve?

Thanks
Kent
-----------------------------------------
Hi Kent, 
I posted the recommendation of the SKF engineer last week - if you missed it I've copied it below. Bottom line, though was he recommended 17-4 stainless, not 316.

I found the Speedi-Sleeve problematic. They don't come long enough to cover 3 seals, so you have to install two of them, removing the flange on the second one. That leaves a bit of a burr that you have to slide the seals over. The size would be the same diameter as your lip seal.

Cheers, Craig
Original message copied below:
:Hi Jose, see my original post under your question below.  Bottom line from the SKF engineer, inner seal facing oil, two outer ones facing the water. Use MUCH harder metal for the bearing than Amel used.
Cheers, Craig, SN68 Sangaris, Ft. Pierce, FL
---In amelyachtowners@..., <jvenegas@...> wrote :
Thank you, Craig,
That makes sense.  What did the SFK expert tell you about the orientation of the seals?
Good winds
Jose
---In amelyachtowners@..., <sangaris@...> wrote :

As we've all experienced, the bronze "wearing-out bushing" (as Amel refers it) gets, well, worn out and grooved from the lip seals. Then water leaks into the oil and we see the tell-tale "chocolate milk" colored oil that says it's time to haul out and replace the seals (cheap) and the "wearing-out bushing" (typically dear in price if supplied by Amel.)
I've had two thoughts on this: switch to a harder bushing of stainless steel and/or try a new (to me) lip seal design by SKF called the Wave Seal. It has the lip in a sinusoidal pattern that spreads the wearing area on the bushing. (SKF is "the world leader in bearing technology.")
I ran this by SKF's engineering department who were most responsive. Here's what their take was on the issue:
"Craig, 
My educated guess is that the seals are not an issue in this application. The problem is with the Bronze bushing that is being used as a sealing surface. Bronze is generally quite soft and might not have the required hardness of Rockwell C 30 or higher. You have a few options to solve this issue:
• You can put SKF speedi-sleeve gold on the shaft (P/N 99830). You will probably have to install multiple sleeves as you have 3 seals next to each other.
• You can replace the bronze bushing with a hardened wear sleeve for better abrasion resistance. We can offer you a custom wear sleeve if needed.
• You can plate your bushing with a harder material (Chrome, ceramic, etc) to make it wear resistant.
Essentially, the harder the shaft is, the less grooving it will see. I also suggest you to make sure that you grease pack the area between the seals to make sure that the seals not in contact with the oil are well lubricated. A lack of lubrication can cause the seal and surface to wear quicker. Finally I would arrange the seals with 2 facing the water and one facing the oil as long as there is no pressure difference. 
Best regards, Jaydeep Laljani, Application Engineer, SKF USA

I wrote back and said:
"Many thanks for your analysis. Frankly, I have wondered why the manufacturer used Bronze in the first place and not stainless - they actually call it a "wearing-out bushing" (but then they do charge a lot for replacements :-). 
Next month I'm returning to the boat, which is in Turkey, and I can easily have a local shop turn a new bushing in 316 Stainless (the same material as the shaft and propeller, so no electrolysis issues.) I think that would solve the problem without going to sleeves or plating. 
As for the orientation of the seals, I like your suggestion of two facing the water and will do that the next time I change the seals. After all, we're really trying to keep the water out more than keeping the oil in. And, yes, indeed, I always pack the seals with a good water-proof grease and that helps, I'm sure. "

Jaydeep replied with:
"I think you might not get as much life as you want with 316 SS as it is still not up to the required hardness. If you want to go Stainless I recommend 17-4 Stainless steel which is harder. If you are going with the 316 SS I would recommend you to passivate it to improve corrosion resistance. "

So that's the story which I thought might be of interest to the group. I hauled last year and only haul every three years, plus the new seals I put on then only have 300 hours and are not yet leaking so I'll report back in 2015 when I haul again and install a new 17-4 Stainless Steel "Not Wearing-Out Bushing" with two seals facing out!

Cheers, Craig Briggs
s/v SANGARIS, 1992 Santorin #68, Didim Turkey

PS; Update in 2018; never did get around to the 17-4 SS bearing, but used SKF speedie sleeves with inconclusive results; Next tried centrifugal rebabitting of the WOB; again, not much difference. Just last week installed a new Amel bronze bearing, "by-the-book" with two seals toward oil and one toward water. We'll see.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Experiemental Chromed WOB Provided by Amel

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Thanks a lot Marc, well appreciated.
Ruedi

Ruedi & Sabina Waldispuehl
"SY WASABI"
Amel 54. #55
Sailing in Ägäis, Greece 

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Dienstag, 15. Mai 2018 um 13:57
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Experiemental Chromed WOB Provided by Amel

 

Ruedi,

 

Here is her contact information:

 

Maud TOUILLET

Service clientèle – Customer service

sav@...

Phone : +33 (0) 546 55 00 75

 

 

 With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

From:amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 3:15 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Experiemental Chromed WOB Provided by Amel

 

 

Dear Amelies

 

I have seen that some of you are talking about a lady called Maud @AMEL where you can get parts from.

Can someone give me her e-Mail Address? 

 

I’m new with AMEL and I would very much appreciate to get some useful e-mail address at AMEL. For technical questions, Parts ordering, etc…

 

Thanks to the group and 

Btw: This user group is a great source for may questions, … its my preferred reading, I love it;-)

Ruedi

 

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "sangaris@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Freitag, 11. Mai 2018 um 15:27
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Experiemental Chromed WOB Provided by Amel

 

 

Bob and Suzanne,

Many thanks for updating us on the WOB. It sounds like Amel recognizes the problem and is working to fix it. Good to hear that Bill Rouse is also encouraging Amel to improve the original design and that the "Amel Way" can evolve when shortcomings are found. A little disappointing, though, that Amel hasn't moved more quickly and is still supplying the original WOB's that are clearly not hard enough.

Cheers,

Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris



---In amelyachtowners@..., <rossidesigngroup@...> wrote :

Hi Everyone,

Given recent postings on the WOB and my experience about a month ago I think it is a good time to post regarding an experiemental WOB that I had received from Amel.  I had received it in March, 2014 and thought, mistakenly that this was simply the new design that AMEL provided.  Instead, I learned later that these were trial versions that Amel had somehow provided to me.  Not sure if anyone else got them.  So here are the pics I posted back in September,  2014 -- https://www.dropbox.com/sc/1tompsdjss3rr0r/AACGUoVzzawY5RnlyKpnjwRga

.

In a phone conversation with Maud she confirmed that Amel was trying these out.  About 2 years ago I had installed this new type WOB in Turkey and changed it here in Malta and examined it carefully (note we visited Croatia and Venice on the way back, so the miles are there).  Please also note that I am making no claims about whether Amel should convert to these but I will tell you what I reported to Amel--which is that I was replacing the O ring inside and re-using the WOB!  Below is the content of my email to Maud and her response back to me.  I thought it was important to provide the information to Amel and give them time before placing it in front of the group.  Please also note that Adm Bill was privy to the info and he has contacted Amel to suggest they consider switching to the new WOB.

 

OK...the email to Maud on April 4 and her response on April 5.

 

"Hi Maud,

 

About 3.5 years ago you sent me an "experimental" WOB that Amel was trying out.  It is a normal bronze WOB with a stainless surface where the lip seals mount.  I was confused about it but in a later telephone conversation you talked with someone at Amel and then explained to me that Amel was trying out the new special WOB.  I promised to mount it and report back to you.

 

I serviced the Amel drive on my Super Maramu KAIMI #429 about 2 years ago and installed the special WOB.  Last week I serviced it again. There was virtually no wear on the WOB.  There was no evidence of water in the drive oil (90 wt) and the springs inside the seals were not rusted (I pack them with grease).

 

It is my impression that the WOB did very well.  While I could see some "polishing" could not detect any ridge or groove with my fingernail and I replaced the O ring inside the WOB and am re-using the WOB.   I plan to report back again on the next service in a year or 2.

 

I have included a link to photos of the removed WOB.  For comparison I show a regular used WOB.  You are welcome to forward this email to any others at Amel and I will be happy to answer any other questions that you have.

 

Click on individual images for larger photo --

 

Robert Rossi  SM#429 KAIMI"



Response back from Maud-- 

"Dear Robert,

Thank you for your nice message and detailed report. I will forward the results of your test to the AMEL technical department and I am certain they will be glad to hear it is very positive.

Thank you again for being such a supportive customer!!

Have a nice day.

With my kindest regards,

 

Maud TOUILLET

Service clientèle/Customer service"

 

Highlights--I could detect NO wear other than a bit of polishing where normally you would see a groove...note the used bronze version as a comparison.  There was no evidence of water in the 90 wt oil which I actually ran back through my Mr.Funnel to see if there was water--none-- and now have re-stored for possible future use.  Note also that there was no noticeable rust on the springs in the seals.  And, as noted, I am re-using the WOB.  We plan on pulling out for hurricane season in the Caribbean 14 months from now and I will re-check it.  Ironically, the entire process left me kind of upset with myself for even doing the change! 

 

 

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM429 Gozo in the Maltese archipelago

 

 

Raising the waterline aft on SM

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hello all:


As the hull repairs progress on our hull #335 SM from the Hurricane Maria/Irma damage, the idea of raising the waterline aft is being considered.  


Every Amel I have ever seen, regardless of model, does not set level on their lines ( waterline level with the water).  They  all have the waterline higher, by a significant amount, forward.  I noted this when I toured the factory when our boat was being built (looking at the waterline on the boats in the test tank at Chantiers Amel) and asked Jean-Jacque Lemonier (the CEO of Amel at the time) about it.  He replied that it was just because the rigging wasn't in place and assured me that it would be level once the rigging was in place.  Either we mis-communicated or every Amel ever built was intentionally made with the waterline higher forward.  


My aft anti-fouling isn't high enough to be effect, especially under the overhang of the transom and I am always scrubbing soft growth off that area as well as the bootstirpe for about 10 ft forward.  


Bill Rouse raised his waterline slightly along the entire length of the boat by eliminating the white stripe below the original bootstripe.  What I am proposing is leaving the bootstripe where it is forward and raising it 6 inches aft with a continuous level-line between.  It would still be higher forward than aft, but less of a gradient than the original.


I am seeking info from anyone with inside knowledge of why Amel made the boats like this and any experience with raising the waterline aft (both cosmetically and in solving the scrubbing problem). 


Thanks, 


Gary S. Silver, original and only owner

Amel SM 2000 #335

s/v Liahona

At Island Marine, Inc. yard at Puerto Del Rey Marina, Puerto Rico



Re: Propshaft wearing ring

rossirossix4
 

BTW--during the correspondence and postings I referred to the surface as "stainless".  I realize that the material is most likely chromed.
Bob

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh Water Pump

Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

Hi Peter,

I installed a constant pressure/variable output Marco Pump E12 a few months ago.

No accumulator tank needed either and sufficient pressure to wash your decks!

Jean-Pierre



On 12 May 2018, at 01:02, Denis Elborn delborn@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi Peter,


Penguin refrigeration sell them in the UK.

Denis
Aventura 54-113


On 11 May 2018, at 1:13 pm, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,


Yes and Maud said she couldn’t get one. Now I know what you say I will try again.

Many thanks - where is your boat 152?

Peter

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730

On 11 May 2018, at 10:48, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Peter

Just 6 months ago I got a new one from Maud. 
Expensive, but it was there in a week. 
Have you asked Amel?

Porter
54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On May 11, 2018, at 4:23 AM, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I am finding great difficulty finding a European source for the fresh water pump on my 54. The existing seems to draw 1 amp and pump 6 litres a minute. I can find one that draws 3.7 amps but I don’t know if that will be too much for that frigoboat circuit.

Any ideas?

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Props and rpm

Patrick McAneny
 

Jean- Pierre, I assume that would be logical considering the torque curve. I agree, I don't want to know what 4500 revs sounds like. Looks like you find yourself in a Bit of Paradise !
Enjoy I'm envious,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air jgermain@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, May 15, 2018 7:43 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Props and rpm

 
Hi Pat,

Volvo says their engine can deliver unto 4500 rpm.  However, because power is not fully dependent on rpm but on torque, Amel decided to accept 3000 rpm as the normal maximum rpm.  This is because the torque curve of the TDM22 is such that near full HP is available at that rpm.

My previous boat had a TDM22 as well and that was set to 4500 rpm… tou don’t want to do this… trust me!!!

Just ensure your TC is on full open for 1 hour every 10.  Your engine will remain healthy with this small bit of Italian tune up!

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007,
Fakarava Atoll, Tuamotus, French Polynesia.


On 13 May 2018, at 07:29, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I had flexofold suggest a prop and pitch that would allow the engine reach its max rpm , in my case 4500 . I now just read on the Max prop website , that their prop would also allow the engine to reach full rpm ,"in flat water." I wrote back to Flexofold that this did not sound correct , as my fixed prop does not allow me to get beyond 3000, and I have not read about anyone else able to reach rpms that high. I would think  reaching max torque would be the goal . Should a prop/ pitch allow an engine to obtain max rpms ? I don't know what to think or what is correct on this subject, and I may owe Flexofold a retraction.
Thanks,
Pat
SM #123


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] clean the sea water intake

Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

EASY.  Close the Through hull.  Use a manual bilge pump/wet and dry vacuum cleaner and empty the pipe.

Then fill the pipe with household white vinegar.. let stand 24 hours and reopen the through hull.

Watch all the scum flow out.

Good luck,

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007
Fakarava Atoll, Tuamotus, French Polynesia

On 10 May 2018, at 15:10, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Cear amelians,
what is the best tool / method to clean the WHOLE pipe that goes from the sea water filter all the way down to the sea water intake in the hull (while boat is in water)?

Thanks for your advice,
Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Props and rpm

Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

Hi Pat,

Volvo says their engine can deliver unto 4500 rpm.  However, because power is not fully dependent on rpm but on torque, Amel decided to accept 3000 rpm as the normal maximum rpm.  This is because the torque curve of the TDM22 is such that near full HP is available at that rpm.

My previous boat had a TDM22 as well and that was set to 4500 rpm… tou don’t want to do this… trust me!!!

Just ensure your TC is on full open for 1 hour every 10.  Your engine will remain healthy with this small bit of Italian tune up!

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007,
Fakarava Atoll, Tuamotus, French Polynesia.


On 13 May 2018, at 07:29, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I had flexofold suggest a prop and pitch that would allow the engine reach its max rpm , in my case 4500 . I now just read on the Max prop website , that their prop would also allow the engine to reach full rpm ,"in flat water." I wrote back to Flexofold that this did not sound correct , as my fixed prop does not allow me to get beyond 3000, and I have not read about anyone else able to reach rpms that high. I would think  reaching max torque would be the goal . Should a prop/ pitch allow an engine to obtain max rpms ? I don't know what to think or what is correct on this subject, and I may owe Flexofold a retraction.

Thanks,

Pat

SM #123



Replacement Head/Shower Faucets for SM

Dan Taylor
 

Greetings all, I am a first time poster and proud Amel Owner. 


First off, I want to thank publicly Joel Potter and Bill Rouse. They went the extra effort in answering and guiding me through the section and buying process.  


Secondly, I have contacted numerous Amel owners that Joel and Bill have introduced, the feedback and information has reinforced my decision that Amel owners take care of their own. Thank you all for your support as I become familiar with my Amel.


Finally, I would like to replace the head faucets and handles.  Has anyone performed this and if so, what make/model/size did you use?


Thanks,

Dan

SV FlyGirl 

San Diego, CA

SM 116



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Propshaft wearing ring

karkauai
 

Hmmm, have you tried it yet? Maybe not an ideal situation.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On May 15, 2018, at 3:36 PM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Does anybody know the size of the Speedi-Sleeve needed for the WOB? I remember someone posted it but can’t find it now.
If 316 stainless isn’t hard enough, what material is recommended for a machined WOB or Speedi-Sleeve?

Thanks
Kent
-----------------------------------------
Hi Kent, 
I posted the recommendation of the SKF engineer last week - if you missed it I've copied it below. Bottom line, though was he recommended 17-4 stainless, not 316.

I found the Speedi-Sleeve problematic. They don't come long enough to cover 3 seals, so you have to install two of them, removing the flange on the second one. That leaves a bit of a burr that you have to slide the seals over. The size would be the same diameter as your lip seal.

Cheers, Craig
Original message copied below:
:Hi Jose, see my original post under your question below.  Bottom line from the SKF engineer, inner seal facing oil, two outer ones facing the water. Use MUCH harder metal for the bearing than Amel used.
Cheers, Craig, SN68 Sangaris, Ft. Pierce, FL
---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :
Thank you, Craig,
That makes sense.  What did the SFK expert tell you about the orientation of the seals?
Good winds
Jose
---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

As we've all experienced, the bronze "wearing-out bushing" (as Amel refers it) gets, well, worn out and grooved from the lip seals. Then water leaks into the oil and we see the tell-tale "chocolate milk" colored oil that says it's time to haul out and replace the seals (cheap) and the "wearing-out bushing" (typically dear in price if supplied by Amel.)
I've had two thoughts on this: switch to a harder bushing of stainless steel and/or try a new (to me) lip seal design by SKF called the Wave Seal. It has the lip in a sinusoidal pattern that spreads the wearing area on the bushing. (SKF is "the world leader in bearing technology.")
I ran this by SKF's engineering department who were most responsive. Here's what their take was on the issue:
"Craig, 
My educated guess is that the seals are not an issue in this application. The problem is with the Bronze bushing that is being used as a sealing surface. Bronze is generally quite soft and might not have the required hardness of Rockwell C 30 or higher. You have a few options to solve this issue:
• You can put SKF speedi-sleeve gold on the shaft (P/N 99830). You will probably have to install multiple sleeves as you have 3 seals next to each other.
• You can replace the bronze bushing with a hardened wear sleeve for better abrasion resistance. We can offer you a custom wear sleeve if needed.
• You can plate your bushing with a harder material (Chrome, ceramic, etc) to make it wear resistant.
Essentially, the harder the shaft is, the less grooving it will see. I also suggest you to make sure that you grease pack the area between the seals to make sure that the seals not in contact with the oil are well lubricated. A lack of lubrication can cause the seal and surface to wear quicker. Finally I would arrange the seals with 2 facing the water and one facing the oil as long as there is no pressure difference. 
Best regards, Jaydeep Laljani, Application Engineer, SKF USA

I wrote back and said:
"Many thanks for your analysis. Frankly, I have wondered why the manufacturer used Bronze in the first place and not stainless - they actually call it a "wearing-out bushing" (but then they do charge a lot for replacements :-). 
Next month I'm returning to the boat, which is in Turkey, and I can easily have a local shop turn a new bushing in 316 Stainless (the same material as the shaft and propeller, so no electrolysis issues.) I think that would solve the problem without going to sleeves or plating. 
As for the orientation of the seals, I like your suggestion of two facing the water and will do that the next time I change the seals. After all, we're really trying to keep the water out more than keeping the oil in. And, yes, indeed, I always pack the seals with a good water-proof grease and that helps, I'm sure. "

Jaydeep replied with:
"I think you might not get as much life as you want with 316 SS as it is still not up to the required hardness. If you want to go Stainless I recommend 17-4 Stainless steel which is harder. If you are going with the 316 SS I would recommend you to passivate it to improve corrosion resistance. "

So that's the story which I thought might be of interest to the group. I hauled last year and only haul every three years, plus the new seals I put on then only have 300 hours and are not yet leaking so I'll report back in 2015 when I haul again and install a new 17-4 Stainless Steel "Not Wearing-Out Bushing" with two seals facing out!

Cheers, Craig Briggs
s/v SANGARIS, 1992 Santorin #68, Didim Turkey

PS; Update in 2018; never did get around to the 17-4 SS bearing, but used SKF speedie sleeves with inconclusive results; Next tried centrifugal rebabitting of the WOB; again, not much difference. Just last week installed a new Amel bronze bearing, "by-the-book" with two seals toward oil and one toward water. We'll see.