Date   
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] FOLLOW-UP to Dessalator Water Starvation Problem

Porter McRoberts
 

Thanks Mark and Debbie. 
Always very useful to hear the conclusion to the the issue. 
These Bills are invaluable!,

Porter 
54-152 Bonaire. 


On May 14, 2018, at 9:47 AM, brass.ring@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I posted a question regarding water starvation and cavitation of the low and high pressure Dessalator pumps when the Volvo ran above 1300 RPM.  Unfortunately, I cannot locate the original post.

 

There were a number of valuable responses for troubleshooting but I would especially like to thank Bill Kinney who suggested that the air-conditioning raw water pump check valve was leaking which was likely causing air to enter the system.  It was leaking.

 

Additionally, I would like to thank Bill Rouse for supplying a list of items form the Amel School related to this problem to check.  While going through the checklist we located the various forms of sea life growing up in the sea chest elbow & raw water distribution manifold, a broken stem on the distribution manifold ball valve, and a heretofore undetected minor leak at the junction of one of the tube fittings and the distribution manifold.

 

After cleaning, repairing, and reinstalling all systems appear to be working properly.  Thank you everyone.


Mark & Debbie Mueller

Brass Ring  A54-68

Ft. Lauderdale


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

greatketch@...
 

Pat, 

At full throttle, and a clean bottom, I motor at 8.1 knots at 3100 RPM.

My normal "around the harbor" cruising speed is 6 knots at 2000-2100 RPM

Once you go away from a fixed prop, it is my overall opinion is that the relative differences between the various prop options is so small in normal operation you'll never notice, so if I had to pick a new prop, I would pick the cheapest one that I felt was robust and well designed, and minimized maintenance.  If my passion was racing, I might be paying a premium for low drag, if I was on a motorsailor and put 1000 hours a year on my engine I might pay extra for improved motoring performance, but neither of those are on my valued added radar.

Only once have I ever feel like the boat could have used more power.  Coming out of the southern end of the Cape Cod Canal, with a following tide, into the teeth of the afternoon southeasterlies. (All the New England sailors on the forum are smiling knowingly about now...) 

The 25 knot winds driving straight into the south tidal current had kicked up miles of the shortest, steepest chop I have ever had the misfortune to have to motor into.  And motor was the only choice, the narrow channel was straight into the wind.  We made progress, but it was slow and very uncomfortable. As a small consolation, we were making slightly better time than the other boats around us. 

Once we got to deeper water where we could bear off and sail without the engine our VMG went way up, and we were a lot more comfortable--and we left those other boats, still motoring,  further behind on each tack.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie,
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas

---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote :

Bill, I was going to buy a Autoprop from Alexandre , when Olivier informed me that the boats were modified to fit the Autoprop. I would be interested in the performance , eg. cruising speed /rpm ,max speed/rpm and appreciate your overall assessment of the Max prop on a SM.,particularly as you have the same engine I do.
Thanks
Pat SM#123


Ground Tackle Query

steve_morrison@...
 

With an eye towards the South Pacific and beyond in 2019, we are reviewing our ground tackle inventory.  Presently we carry the original (to SM 380) stainless Wasi Bugel anchor on 100m of 10mm stainless chain with an additional 10m of stainless chain on 75m of 1" rope rode and a Fortress FX55 anchor stored in the port bow locker.  


What do you all carry?


I am considering adding either an 85# or 105# Mantus anchor and question whether this should be a backup, or if I should consider this my primary and put the Wasi Bugel away as a backup.  Do any of you have experience with the Mantus anchors?


We currently use the Mantus Snubber hook and Mantus snubber bridle but also have a monster stainless coil spring snubber and very heavy lead 'rode rider' that were on the boat when I purchased it.  I really can't imagine using them and would consider taking them (and their weight) out of the bow lockers. Have any of you used, or know of a situation whereupon you wished you had had a 50# lead weight you could slide down your rode to weight it?


All the best,

Steve Morrison

SM 380 TouRai

Hilton Head, SC

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] lofrans windlass switch.

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

I purchase mine from Amel.
http://www.nikimat.com/spare_parts_windlass_lofran_tigre.html

I am sure you have seen the whole illustration of the overhaul.
http://www.nikimat.com/lofrans_tigres_windlass_overhaul.html
or simple:
http://www.nikimat.com/lofrans_tigres_windlass.html


--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 5/13/18, ericmeury@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] lofrans windlass switch.
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Sunday, May 13, 2018, 10:04 PM


 









I know that has been talked about
before and i read the threads...
but...has anyone found a source
here in the status for these...i know the vetus ones from
jamestown would work but they are pretty expensive for what
they are.  I found a Victory #RC46047-2 on the boat and can
confirm that THIS DOES NOT WORK as the length is not long
enough to put the backing nut on it.  
Also thinking about the wireless
windless remote but the "marine" versions might be
overkill since the control box for it would be inside the
boat and well protected....thoughts.

New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

amelyachtowners@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the amelyachtowners
group.

File : /Bow Thruster maintenance A54/_Bowthruster flex coupling replacement.pdf
Uploaded by : thomas_soraya <svgarulfo@...>
Description : thanks José Esteller & Dimitris Krasapoulos for FB input. Amel procedure doc on 54 bow thruster maintenance

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/files/Bow%20Thruster%20maintenance%20A54/_Bowthruster%20flex%20coupling%20replacement.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398

Regards,

thomas_soraya <svgarulfo@...>

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, I was going to buy a Autoprop from Alexandre , when Olivier informed me that the boats were modified to fit the Autoprop. I would be interested in the performance , eg. cruising speed /rpm ,max speed/rpm and appreciate your overall assessment of the Max prop on a SM.,particularly as you have the same engine I do.
Thanks
Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Mon, May 14, 2018 12:26 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

 
Pat,

I'll have to look deeper for the size, I know it is written down on the boat SOMEWHERE!  I do know the pitch setting is 20 degrees, left rotating.

My understanding is all of the early production runs of Super Maramus had MaxProps from the factory.  Autoprops do not fit the earlier SMs because there is not enough clearance for the blades to swing round.  I am sure Bill Rouse or Joel Potter can at least approximate the hull number when the keel was modified to allow the Autoprop room to swing.  I'll bet it is buried in the old posts here somewhere...

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

eric freedman
 

Bill,

When the packing is initially installed, I drive it down with a piece of PVC pipe and a small sledge hammer.

It is in very tight. As it swells with water it does leak and needs tightening. Over the last 16  years it has always been tight.

I was not commenting on scoring the nut but rounding the edges of the nut.

 

The correct wrench really comes in handy. One time we were hit by two big waves, the first one laid us over the second put the sails in the water. The water entered in the fresh air duct and came out of the vent under the stairs like a fire hydrant until we leveled off.  This put a lot of water down below. When we got the mess cleaned up, I went back to my cabin.

I saw the carpet was very wet. Initially I was puzzled. I then looked at the rudder post and it was really leaking badly.

 

It seems that the waves moved the packing on the rudder stock. I had a plumbers wrench and it was very difficult to even turn the nut. When I was done the nut was toast. I now have the proper wrench, spare packing from Amel, and a spare nut duct taped next to the rudder.

 

That’s my story of the plumbers wrench.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 12:17 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

 

 

Eric,

 

If it needs to be THAT tight, it really needs repacking.  

 

Going on tightening it really tight risks scoring the shaft, or breaking the plastic gland nut.  (I assume your gland nut is nylon, like mine?)  Scoring is not a really big risk with a slow rotation speed like a rudder... but not one I would take.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas

 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

greatketch@...
 

Pat,

I'll have to look deeper for the size, I know it is written down on the boat SOMEWHERE!  I do know the pitch setting is 20 degrees, left rotating.

My understanding is all of the early production runs of Super Maramus had MaxProps from the factory.  Autoprops do not fit the earlier SMs because there is not enough clearance for the blades to swing round.  I am sure Bill Rouse or Joel Potter can at least approximate the hull number when the keel was modified to allow the Autoprop room to swing.  I'll bet it is buried in the old posts here somewhere...

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

greatketch@...
 

Eric,

If it needs to be THAT tight, it really needs repacking.  

Going on tightening it really tight risks scoring the shaft, or breaking the plastic gland nut.  (I assume your gland nut is nylon, like mine?)  Scoring is not a really big risk with a slow rotation speed like a rudder... but not one I would take.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas

Re: lofrans windlass switch.

ericmeury@...
 

We have a santorin 1993...hull 86

Re: lofrans windlass switch.

ericmeury@...
 

yes sorry...should have been more clear...the ones mounted on the windless motor housing.

Re: lofrans windlass switch.

greatketch@...
 

Eric,

I am not sure which switches you are talking about... Are these the ones mounted on the motor hoursing of the windlass?

It helps if you post the model and hull number of your boat so we know where to start with a response...

Bill Kinney
SM 160, Harmonie
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

eric freedman
 

Bill,

I have found that the plumbers wrench slips when a lot of force is needed to tighten the nut. When the packing is new it is a no brainer, but when the packing gets compressed, it slips.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2018 11:38 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

 

 

You can buy one from Amel and that will work.  You can have one custom made, and that will work.  

 

Or you can buy what, in the USA, is called a "plumber's slip wrench"...  and that will work just as well.

 

 

I am generally not a fan of "adjustable" wrenches, but in this case these work fine.  You can buy the same wrench from a marine supply store as a "packing gland wrench" for twice the price too...

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

greatketch@...
 

You can buy one from Amel and that will work.  You can have one custom made, and that will work.  

Or you can buy what, in the USA, is called a "plumber's slip wrench"...  and that will work just as well.


I am generally not a fan of "adjustable" wrenches, but in this case these work fine.  You can buy the same wrench from a marine supply store as a "packing gland wrench" for twice the price too...

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas

lofrans windlass switch.

ericmeury@...
 

I know that has been talked about before and i read the threads...


but...has anyone found a source here in the status for these...i know the vetus ones from jamestown would work but they are pretty expensive for what they are.  I found a Victory #RC46047-2 on the boat and can confirm that THIS DOES NOT WORK as the length is not long enough to put the backing nut on it.  


Also thinking about the wireless windless remote but the "marine" versions might be overkill since the control box for it would be inside the boat and well protected....thoughts.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

karkauai
 

I still have my old AutoProp if anyone wants to buy it.  It’s just taking up space now, so you can have it for a good price.
 I think a good prop shop can modify it to fit your shaft.



Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

karkauai
 

I didn’t notice a significant difference between fuel consumption between the AutoProp and MaxProp.


Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

Patrick McAneny
 

Jose, I would have already bought an Autoprop and almost did, until I was informed that the shaft housing had not been modified as on later models to accept the Autoprop.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123



-----Original Message-----
From: jvenegas@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sun, May 13, 2018 12:24 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

 
I did some studying when I was buying a prop for my previous Beneteau 361.  I found that selecting the type of folding prop depended on the objective.  If it is to reduce drag while sailing the Flexofold or Max prop are pretty good doing that, and better than the Auto-prop which, at low wind conditions tends to take strange configurations causing extra drag. In the category the Max prop because its blades are flat has the lowest drag.
If the objective is to minimize fuel consumption during motoring, the blade of the Flexofold and the Autoprop are better shaped with an angle of attack that is reduced from the center outwards (twist).  This is important because the speed of the blade relative to the water increases with the radius of a rotating object.  The Autoprop blades have a constant angle of attack (flat blades) which is less efficient and can cause flow separation, turbulence, and possibly cavitation reducing thei r efficiency. 

Finally, if optimizing fuel consumption while motor-sailing is the objective, the  Autoprop is best as it adjusts its angle of attack as the wind increases and keeps the prop working efficiently.  Fix pitched props like the Flex or Max as the wind increases they end up spinning adding little power.   

In summary,  If cost is not the issue, I find that the Autoprop is Ideal for those of us that tend to motor-sail when the wind is low or comes from the nose.

My 5 cents.

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM2K 278
Boston

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

eric freedman
 

Thomas,

I would suggest you but the nut wrench from Amel, or have one made out of ¼ inch aluminum. There is a photo of mine in the photo section.

This will allow you to tighten the nut while at sea.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2018 3:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

 

 

So, I noticed about a shot glass of water in the starboard lower compartment in the aft cabin (just forward of the linear drive). On SM2K #422, this is where sea water ends up when the rudder post stuffing box leaks a bit. As before, I turned the mylar nut one more facing (I guess 1/8 of a revolution) and it seems to have done the trick. Great.

 

However, in making this adjustment it was necessary to take off mattress, etc and completely open the storage area under the bed. I don't have that rudder nut tool I've seen on this site and my wrench only fits on the starboard side of the quadrant.  Not an area of the boat I visit regularly enough. No leaks, spots, anything......so far, so good. But I did notice that one of the hydraulic lines to the rudder quadrant has a small bulge/area of deformity about an inch from its termination and it's joint to the piston. Hmmm. This could have been there for 14 years, 14 months, or 14 minutes........I felt around and the hose seems OK; no blistering, tearing, etc. And it has not leaked to date as the area all around the hose seems to be completely dry.

 

If there were to be a leak from this spot, I suppose it's a pretty big problem.......I would then be dependent on the linear drive autopilot to work because the other autopilot uses the wheel (and thus the hydraulics). And I'm not anxious to ever use the emergency tiller.

 

Has anyone ever changed one of these hoses and what is the process ? It's not clear to me what size the hose/fitting is........nor is it clear how one bleeds it after a new hose is installed. Any ideas ?

 

Tom Kleman

SV L'ORIENT

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

greatketch@...
 

Jose,

I completely agree with the engineering theory of your analysis.  

Where we might differ is I simply do not believe that a on a boat like an SM the drag difference between an Autoprop(worst) and a Maxprop (best) would be at all noticeable to anybody cruising. Especially since people who would chose the Autoprop for the promise of its improved motoring performance are most likely to be motoring at the times when the difference would be largest.

All of these options have drag an order of magnitude lower than a fixed three blade prop, and that difference is most certainly easily noticeable!  But the differences in drag between the various folding/feathering options simply isn't significant given all the other variables involved.

In the real world, an Autoprop costs about $1000 more than a classic Maxprop of similar size. If I accept on faith the maximum fuel economy improvement that Autoprop claims in their marketing (30%), to generate a positive payback would require more miles of motorsailing  than I will likely do in the rest of my cruising life.  Other people do motor sail a lot more than I do and might come to a different conclusion.  

Bill Kinney
Sm160, Harmonie
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas



---In amelyachtowners@..., <jvenegas@...> wrote :

I did some studying when I was buying a prop for my previous Beneteau 361.  I found that selecting the type of folding prop depended on the objective.  If it is to reduce drag while sailing the Flexofold or Max prop are pretty good doing that, and better than the Auto-prop which, at low wind conditions tends to take strange configurations causing extra drag. In the category the Max prop because its blades are flat has the lowest drag.
If the objective is to minimize fuel consumption during motoring, the blade of the Flexofold and the Autoprop are better shaped with an angle of attack that is reduced from the center outwards (twist).  This is important because the speed of the blade relative to the water increases with the radius of a rotating object.  The Autoprop blades have a constant angle of attack (flat blades) which is less efficient and can cause flow separation, turbulence, and possibly cavitation reducing their efficiency. 

Finally, if optimizing fuel consumption while motor-sailing is the objective, the  Autoprop is best as it adjusts its angle of attack as the wind increases and keeps the prop working efficiently.  Fix pitched props like the Flex or Max as the wind increases they end up spinning adding little power.   

In summary,  If cost is not the issue, I find that the Autoprop is Ideal for those of us that tend to motor-sail when the wind is low or comes from the nose.

My 5 cents.

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM2K 278
Boston