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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage
Hi Ruedi,
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Do you have the Bose entertainment? I had a leak and disconnected things one by one. I found the leak was the salon TV. Disconnected the TV from the system and have not had any current leaks since. Best Regards Barry Barry and Penny Connor “Lady Penelope II” Amel 54. #17 Sailing in the Adriatic
On May 13, 2018, at 10:30, Rudolf Waldispuehl Rudolf@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage
ya_fohi
Hi all,
I also see this. I connect my laptop headphone socket to the onboard stereo aux input and found that this is the culprit. Cheers, Paul Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage
It's the ground wires you need to disconnect one by one until you find the source.
The equipment that is grounded is generally equipment that is in contact with salt water and it is salt water leaks that cause the problem. Prime culprits are the head pumps ...leaking shaft seals is the issue. Otherwise anything that is connected to the AC system (if you have a Calpeda A/C pump ... that is the only connection between AC and DC ground) like a laptop charger that may have internally the DC negative connected to the AC ground. Good luck Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage
Hi everyone I do have the same strange behaviour with the 24V negative leak. Sorry, I’m late with my response because I was not on WASABI and tried to trace down last few days. I found a leak at the Furuno heading sensor box. But from time to time (comes and goes daily) I have a strong Neg. leak. Which I found initially on the forward toilette pump and was happy I could reproduce the leak. Problem solved! Few days later I got the same pattern back with the strong Negative leak again. At this time it in not the Furuno sensor, nor the toilet pump. I have to disconnect all potential sources one by one again, which I have no time right now. Will do it later and report back. Fair winds Ruedi "SY WASABI" Amel 54. #55 Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...> Datum: Mittwoch, 25. April 2018 um 16:06 An: Yahoo Group Amel <amelyachtowners@...> Betreff: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage Hi everyone, Our DC leakage detector is showing a leak on the negative. I investigated any AC charger + DC USB potential issue as mentioned previously on the group and didn't find any culprit. However, it highlighted this strange fact: when I push the switch up to test for bad connection between negative and grounding, the light comes on and slowly goes off in about 3 seconds. If I test again, it doesn't come on. I need to wait for 10 , 15 minutes for it to 'recharge'. It looks like a capacitor discharging. Has anybody experienced this before? Does it give a clue to what could be the source of the leak? Otherwise I'll start the usual investigation disconnecting everything from the batteries end. Thanks in advance, Fair winds Thomas S\V GARULFO Amel 54 #122 Saint Martin, FWI
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FW: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush***RESPONSE TO *** IMPORTAN
eric freedman
If you will see in my note to miles. Amel suggested either 3-8 mm lip seals or 2-12 mm lip seals. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376’
From: sailormon [mailto:kimberlite@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2018 11:52 PM To: 'amelyachtowners@...' Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush***RESPONSE TO *** IMPORTAN
Hi Miles, Here is the page from my Amel manual. Possibly yours is different. For the first 4 or 5 years I hauled Kimberlite every year and sanded the bottom and painted it. Now I do her every other year. This summer I had the bottom paint removed to the Gel coat .
Every time she was out of the water, I also did the zincs, WOB with seals, line cutter, and bowthruster. As we both know these are inexpensive items and I don’t understand the hubbub about trying to make the WOB last longer. I have always installed the seals with the 2 closest to the oil ( as per the drawing) with the spring side facing the oil , and the outboard one with the spring side facing the prop. Just goes to show you that your method and mine both work. If you look at the text in the drawing they use either 3 8 mm lip seals or 2 12 mm seals.
Looking forward to seeing you for the 4th.
Fair Winds Eric
Jose, Craig,
I don’t understand why two years has any significance. The original Amel instructions were to change the wearing out bearing every 650 hours. How much the bearing wears is a function of engine hours not time. Any valid comparison test would need to for the same number of hours at the same engine speed. For over 5000 engine hours, I have changed the wearing out bearing using lots of silicone grease and following the Amel instructions of the first bearing facing in and the outer two bearings facing out. I have done this (or Amel has done it) every 650 hours or so. I have never had any problem of water in the oil or loss of oil. I have had my boat since it was new and I learned early on that everything that Amel does or recommends is for a reason.
Regards,
Miles s/y Ladybug, sm 216, Le Marin Martinique
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush***RESPONSE TO *** IMPORTAN
eric freedman
Hi Miles, Here is the page from my Amel manual. Possibly yours is different. For the first 4 or 5 years I hauled Kimberlite every year and sanded the bottom and painted it. Now I do her every other year. This summer I had the bottom paint removed to the Gel coat .
Every time she was out of the water, I also did the zincs, WOB with seals, line cutter, and bowthruster. As we both know these are inexpensive items and I don’t understand the hubbub about trying to make the WOB last longer. I have always installed the seals with the 2 closest to the oil ( as per the drawing) with the spring side facing the oil , and the outboard one with the spring side facing the prop. Just goes to show you that your method and mine both work. If you look at the text in the drawing they use either 3 8 mm lip seals or 2 12 mm seals.
Looking forward to seeing you for the 4th.
Fair Winds Eric
Jose, Craig,
I don’t understand why two years has any significance. The original Amel instructions were to change the wearing out bearing every 650 hours. How much the bearing wears is a function of engine hours not time. Any valid comparison test would need to for the same number of hours at the same engine speed. For over 5000 engine hours, I have changed the wearing out bearing using lots of silicone grease and following the Amel instructions of the first bearing facing in and the outer two bearings facing out. I have done this (or Amel has done it) every 650 hours or so. I have never had any problem of water in the oil or loss of oil. I have had my boat since it was new and I learned early on that everything that Amel does or recommends is for a reason.
Regards,
Miles s/y Ladybug, sm 216, Le Marin Martinique
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Facing in or out--- SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush
eric freedman
Craig, Please reread what I wrote, I believe you misread what I wrote. What you wrote is what I said . I call one side the rubber side and the other the spring side. I was not questioning how many seals went which way. I have changed my WOB and lip seals about 10 times over the last 16 years and with attention to detail and a lot of silicone grease there will not be a leak. I install them the way Amel originally installed them with the 2 seals nearest the C drive having the spring side facing the oil and the last seal with the spring side facing the prop. Look at drawing 13 of the appendix in the owner’s manual. The first time I changed the seals I used the prop grease and it leaked. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2018 5:46 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Facing in or out--- SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush
Hi Eric, Just the opposite, I think, but I'm sure Jose will clarify. He's got the first two seals with the lip (or spring) side facing aft, or "out" and the last (outer) seal facing "in", that is, with its lip side facing forward toward the oil. Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Cheers, Craig
Jose, Just to clarify things about this discussion. I assume that when you say the lip seal is facing in you mean that the rubber side is facing towards the C drive and when you say out you mean the spring side is facing the C drive. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376 .
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Danny and Bill,
First, I don't take it personally.... (text clipped) In my experiment I had both the inner and central seals with the lips facing the propeller (preventing water from coming in but allowing oil to move out) The outer seal was facing the C-drive, thus acting to prevent the oil from leaking out but allowing some lubrication by the water. .....(text clipped) Fair winds
Jose Ipanema SM2K 278
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Cancelling my membership from this forum
VLADIMIR SONSEV
Rink, I regret your decision. Perhaps you are overreacting. Stay with as. Vladimir
On May 11, 2018 8:49 AM, "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum
Alexandre Uster von Baar
Rink,
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I am very glad you are not leaving the forum. Sometime in the heat of the action we write things quickly. I remember long ago, I wrote that I stop a diesel engine blocking the air intake with my hand , I got slammed… my feeling got a bit hurt, I could have argued about the (small size) of the engine, bla bla bla, and actually be right about it, but overall people were right, I should have use a piece of wood. I am glad I didn’t leave the forum back then and I think a few people are as well. So definitely glad you are staying. Sincerely, Alexandre --------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/12/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Saturday, May 12, 2018, 1:36 PM With you on that RinkRegardsDannySM 299 Ocean Pearl On 12 May 2018 at 21:46 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Thanks Jose, you are right.With my tone of voice I didn’t achieve what I wanted. I apologize to everyone who’s offended.Let’s keep up the good work of this forum.RegardsRink From: amelyachtowners@... <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of lji0041@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 5:13:27 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum Hi mates, I am sorry if I cannot follow the details on this. I just made an exercise to look in the database. What I could see is that you guys have helped each other and the rest of mates through all these years. It is a pity that we cannot see each other sharing some beers in the canteen, as if we were on the same port. Probably it would be different. Definitely, the email and sequels were invented by the devil, so we have to be careful in how we use it, because we cannot see our faces and lose a lot of the communication. Forums like this, where the goal is to help each other, cannot afford losing valued members. I wish you could pick up the phone and see what is really going on. Wish I could be with you guys in the middle of a real storm. I know I would be safe. Jose
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Re: Facing in or out--- SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush
Hi Eric,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Just the opposite, I think, but I'm sure Jose will clarify. He's got the first two seals with the lip (or spring) side facing aft, or "out" and the last (outer) seal facing "in", that is, with its lip side facing forward toward the oil. Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Cheers, Craig ---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote : Jose, Just to clarify things about this discussion. I assume that when you say the lip seal is facing in you mean that the rubber side is facing towards the C drive and when you say out you mean the spring side is facing the C drive. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376 .
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 6:36 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***
Danny and Bill,
First, I don't take it personally.... (text clipped) In my experiment I had both the inner and central seals with the lips facing the propeller (preventing water from coming in but allowing oil to move out) The outer seal was facing the C-drive, thus acting to prevent the oil from leaking out but allowing some lubrication by the water. .....(text clipped) Fair winds
Jose Ipanema SM2K 278
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Facing in or out--- SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***
eric freedman
Jose, Just to clarify things about this discussion. I assume that when you say the lip seal is facing in you mean that the rubber side is facing towards the C drive and when you say out you mean the spring side is facing the C drive. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376 .
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 6:36 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***
Danny and Bill,
First, I don't take it personally our interaction and also respect and by-enlarge agree with your conservative approach to keeping the boat as close as possible to the original design. I also agree that the safest approach for new owners, particularly those without background or experience should stay within the original specs. So I don't see as a personal argument but more as an open discussion that may or may not lead to a better solution for some of the small issues of our boats. For example, adding grease ports to the furling gears can prolong the life of these very expensive parts for a long time. The "amel way" resulted in the replacement of two gears by the previous owner and onece by me. This is a clear example of how the "amel way" COULD BE can be improved.
Now, we all know that milky oil in the C-Drive is something common in most of our boats in spite of trying to strictly follow the "amel way". We also know that Amel has been experimenting with ways to reduce the premature entry of water by making harder bushings and that in Martinique they have been changing the scheme having two seals to prevent water in and only one to prevent oil out. You also told me that they now recommend heavier oil and that they had worked on a hardened bushing surface that seems to work but Maud told me that they did not plan to sell them it in the future. So even Amel has recognized the need to work on reducing the incidence of water leaking into the C-Drive which may not kill it but even you would agree is not good. And that has been my motivation to write these posts.
As for Danny statement that oil cannot leave because it is lighter than water, it all depends on which direction the seals are oriented. With the Amel way, water is only prevented to come by the outer seal. Once it is gone, water can flow up along the two other seals that are not preventing that motion. In my experiment I had both the inner and central seals with the lips facing the propeller (preventing water from coming in but allowing oil to move out) The outer seal was facing the C-drive, thus acting to prevent the oil from leaking out but allowing some lubrication by the water. My experience was that after 4 and 1/2 seasons there was a very slow reduction of the oil level when the outer seal/bushing wore out. However, this leak was eliminated by adding the additive that made the oil heavier. So, water or oil can move in or out depending on the direction of the seals that remain working.
With my approach, the outer seal was the only one preventing oil from leaving and, just as I observed, oil began to flow out very slowly when that seal/bush surface wear developed a leak since the two inner seals did not prevent the flow of oil out. The good news was that the leak was very very slow and that making the oil heavier acted to make that last seal work again since the additional viscous pressure drop forced the seal lip towards the shaft preventing or minimizing a further oil leak. Note that from there on the seal was well lubricated by a minimal oil leak and likely would have kept working for a long time before oil began to flow out again.
The good news is that this approach allows you to keep sailing until you find the proper place to do the repair and, as in my experience of 5 seasons without damaging the C-Drive. Note that I kept the bushing/seals in place as an experiment and not as a recommendation to the general user, BUT MY EXPERIENCE LEADS ME TO RECOMMEND THE ALTERNATIVE SEAL ORIENTATION to eliminate the milky oil and give you the time to find a proper site for repairing it
Of course, everyone is free to take it or not my recommendation and I hope that within the coming years we compare notes to see how things are going. I do promise that I will immediately report if my C-Drive freezes ;)
No hard feelings and this closes my chapter FOR this topic until at least 2 years.
Fair winds
Jose Ipanema SM2K 278
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
With you on that Rink Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 12 May 2018 at 21:46 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: genua traveller pulley
Herbert Lackner
thx John and Bill,
I checked now the Antal product range, 801.060 might fit. As I am not on the boat and want to organize everything before returning to the boat and going to the pacific, maybe there is a proud santorin owner who could check if these dimensions would fit. thx, herbert http://www.antal.it/eng/801-060_en Batten dimensions 15 mm Ø sheave (D) 60 mm Side bearing Torlon balls Radial bearing composite fibre Weight 160 gr Ø max line 14 mm SWL 2200 kg Sheave material Aluminum D2 15 mm Thickness (T) 38 mm
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: genua traveller pulley
Herbert, I remember Ian Shepherd, SM FREESPIRIT, replaced or repaired the Antal Genoa Car on his SM. I believe it is identical to the SN. Email Ian Shepherd yahoo.co.uk>. Maybe he has the specific information. Best, CW Bill Rouse Admiral, Texas Navy Commander Emeritus Amel School http://www.amelschool.com 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 9:13 AM, john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: genua traveller pulley
John Clark
Hi Herbert,
I don't have a ready answer to your direct question other than on my 1990 SM the hardware is all Antal. But I will ask, have you disassembled the pulley already? Last month I noticed a similar issue with one of the pulleys on one of my genoa cars. It was creaking and squeaking as genoa sheet tension changed. Hosing it down did nothing to stop the sound. The pulley was turning however but was hard to move. I disassembled the unit and found the roller bearings were dry and a 3mm piece of one of them had chipped off and was lodged in the bearing. As we were in transit, I did an "underway repair" by cleaning everything up and greasing the rollers with small amount of marine grease. Voila! no more squeak and a free spinning roller. This particular piece of hardware has "open bearings" as is the case with most sailboat exterior hardware. Salt and other debris can build up inside and "gum up" the works. I routinely hose them down to keep that from happening. They normally don't use grease, especially if they have plastic bearings, mine were metal so a spot of grease won't hurt. If they are plastic though a bit of teflon spray lube is probably OK. Disassembly was easy, just the one bolt through the center. Sorry if I am preaching to the choir. Regards, John John Clark SV Annie SM 37 Druif Bay USVI ---In amelyachtowners@..., <herbert@...> wrote : hi all, the pulleys on KALI MERAs genua travellers are end of life, genua sheet is sliding in the roller / pulley and pulley is not turning anymore. Does anyone know a source for a replacement? Size (in mm) is: * outer diameter - 59,5 * inner diameter - 14,25 (where the bolt goes through) * width - 37 has anyone found a source where that can be purchased ready built? has anyone made a replacement? what material did you use? thx, herbert KALI MERA, SN120, on the hard at Shelter Bay Panama
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genua traveller pulley
Herbert Lackner
hi all,
the pulleys on KALI MERAs genua travellers are end of life, genua sheet is sliding in the roller / pulley and pulley is not turning anymore. Does anyone know a source for a replacement? Size (in mm) is: * outer diameter - 59,5 * inner diameter - 14,25 (where the bolt goes through) * width - 37 has anyone found a source where that can be purchased ready built? has anyone made a replacement? what material did you use? thx, herbert KALI MERA, SN120, on the hard at Shelter Bay Panama
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum
Good words Rink
Let's carry on ! Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum
Rink De Haan
Thanks Jose, you are right.
With my tone of voice I didn’t achieve what I wanted. I apologize to everyone who’s offended.
Let’s keep up the good work of this forum.
Regards
Rink
From: amelyachtowners@... on behalf of lji0041@... [amelyachtowners]
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 5:13:27 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum Hi mates, I am sorry if I cannot follow the details on this. I just made an exercise to look in the database.
What I could see is that you guys have helped each other and the rest of mates through all these years.
It is a pity that we cannot see each other sharing some beers in the canteen, as if we were on the same port. Probably it would be different.
Definitely, the email and sequels were invented by the devil, so we have to be careful in how we use it, because we cannot see our faces and lose a lot of the communication.
Forums like this, where the goal is to help each other, cannot afford losing valued members. I wish you could pick up the phone and see what is really going on.
Wish I could be with you guys in the middle of a real storm. I know I would be safe.
Jose
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh Water Pump
Thank you.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Peter Peter Forbes 00447836 209730
On 12 May 2018, at 06:02, Denis Elborn delborn@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Modified SM Prop Shaft Seal Bush
rossirossix4
Hi Everyone, Given recent postings on the WOB and my experience about a month ago I think it is a good time to post regarding an experiemental WOB that I had received from Amel. I had received it in March, 2014 and thought, mistakenly that this was simply the new design that AMEL provided. Instead, I learned later that these were trial versions that Amel had somehow provided to me. Not sure if anyone else got them. So here are the pics I posted back in September, 2014 -- https://www.dropbox.com/sc/1tompsdjss3rr0r/AACGUoVzzawY5RnlyKpnjwRga . In a phone conversation with Maud she confirmed that Amel was trying these out. About 2 years ago I had installed this new type WOB in Turkey and changed it here in Malta and examined it carefully (note we visited Croatia and Venice on the way back, so the miles are there). Please also note that I am making no claims about whether Amel should convert to these but I will tell you what I reported to Amel--which is that I was replacing the O ring inside and re-using the WOB! Below is the content of my email to Maud and her response back to me. I thought it was important to provide the information to Amel and give them time before placing it in front of the group. Please also note that Adm Bill was privy to the info and he has contacted Amel via one of his contacts there to suggest they consider switching to the new WOB. OK...the email to Maud on April 4 and her response on April 5. "Hi Maud, About 3.5 years ago you sent me an "experimental" WOB that Amel was trying out. It is a normal bronze WOB with a stainless surface where the lip seals mount. I was confused about it but in a later telephone conversation you talked with someone at Amel and then explained to me that Amel was trying out the new special WOB. I promised to mount it and report back to you. I serviced the Amel drive on my Super Maramu KAIMI #429 about 2 years ago and installed the special WOB. Last week I serviced it again. There was virtually no wear on the WOB. There was no evidence of water in the drive oil (90 wt) and the springs inside the seals were not rusted (I pack them with grease). It is my impression that the WOB did very well. While I could see some "polishing" could not detect any ridge or groove with my fingernail and I replaced the O ring inside the WOB and am re-using the WOB. I plan to report back again on the next service in a year or 2. I have included a link to photos of the removed WOB. For comparison I show a regular used WOB. You are welcome to forward this email to any others at Amel and I will be happy to answer any other questions that you have. Click on individual images for larger photo -- https://photos.app.goo.gl/cW2QtzN7OeKaupoP2 Robert Rossi SM#429 KAIMI" Response back from Maud-- "Dear Robert, Thank you for your nice message and detailed report. I will forward the results of your test to the AMEL technical department and I am certain they will be glad to hear it is very positive. Thank you again for being such a supportive customer!! Have a nice day. With my kindest regards, Maud TOUILLET Service clientèle/Customer service" Highlights--I could detect NO wear other than a bit of polishing where normally you would see a groove...note the used bronze version as a comparison. There was no evidence of water in the 90 wt oil which I actually ran back through my Mr.Funnel to see if there was water--none-- and now have re-stored for possible future use. Note also that there was no noticeable rust on the springs in the seals. And, as noted, I am re-using the WOB. We plan on pulling out for hurricane season in the Caribbean 14 months from now and I will re-check it. Ironically, the entire process left me kind of upset with myself for even doing the change! https://photos.app.goo.gl/cW2QtzN7OeKaupoP2 Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM429 Gozo in the Maltese archipelago
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