Date   
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Facing in or out--- SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

Wow, all this "facing in and out" is confusing, and I may have misread your post, if, perhaps, you were trying to see if Jose's nomenclature actually matched the Amel way. 

However,  "Facing in" in Jose's method is the same as Amel's, that is, with the spring (or lip) side facing the "C" drive and preventing oil from escaping. "Facing out" is with what you call the "rubber side" being toward the "C" drive, and the lip or spring side facing the sea, thus preventing water from entering from the sea. Your post assumed that Jose meant just the opposite - he didn't (unless I'm reading everything wrong :-).

Now, as you note, Amel says (or used to say) the first two should be facing in, meaning spring side toward "C" drive oil. The last, or outer one, they say, should be facing out (spring side to the sea).  They seem to have changed that in their Caribbean installations with the first one facing in, ie., spring side toward the oil, and the outer two facing out, spring sides facing the sea, supposedly trying to solve the water-in-oil problem.

Jose suggests the first two should actually face out, ie., spring sides facing the sea, and the outer one should face in, ie., lip side facing the oil of the "C" drive. He posits that will keep all lips lubricated and lessen wear on the bearing. The inner lips, by facing out will let oil seep out of the "C" drive to lubricate the lips and the outer lip will let water come in, also to lubricate the seals, while the inner two keep that water from making its way to the oil in the gear case.  Thus all seals will get lubricated by oil and/or a water and oil slurry.  Doesn't sound unreasonable.

Super that you're one of the few who never has water in their oil. More power to you, and this discussion must seem trivial, but I'd assert most of us do get water in the oil and it's not from a lack of attention to detail, nor failure to follow the Amel way.

Cheers, Craig 


---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

Craig,

Please reread what I wrote, I believe you misread what I wrote.

What you wrote is what I said . I call one side the rubber side and the other the spring side.

I was not questioning how many seals went which way.

I have changed my WOB and lip seals about 10 times over the last 16 years and with attention to detail and a lot of silicone grease there will not be a leak. I install them the way Amel originally installed them with the 2 seals nearest the C drive having the spring side facing the oil  and the last seal with the spring side facing the prop. Look at drawing 13 of the appendix in the owner’s manual.

The first time I changed the seals I used the prop grease and it leaked.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2018 5:46 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Facing in or out--- SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush

 

 

Hi Eric,

Just the opposite, I think, but I'm sure Jose will clarify.  He's got the first two seals with the lip (or spring) side facing aft, or "out" and the last (outer) seal facing "in", that is, with its lip side facing forward toward the oil. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Cheers, Craig



---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

Jose,

Just to clarify things about this discussion.

I assume that when you say the lip seal is facing in you mean that the rubber side is facing towards the C drive  and when you say out you mean the spring side is facing the C drive.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

.

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 6:36 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

 

 

Danny and Bill,

 

First, I don't take it personally.... (text clipped)



 In my experiment I had both the inner and central seals with the lips facing the propeller (preventing water from coming in but allowing oil to move out)  The outer seal was facing the C-drive, thus acting to prevent the oil from leaking out but allowing some lubrication by the water.  

.....(text clipped)

Fair winds

 

Jose

Ipanema SM2K 278

 

 

 

 

 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush***RESPONSE TO *** IMPORTAN [1 Attachment]

 

Eric,

Since you gave me some hints on my first C-DRIVE service and Gary Silver provided me with written instructions, I would like to share this. In my personal experience with SM 387 and with over 40 SM & 54 clients, when water enters the C-DRIVE, it has nothing to do with seal orientation. It has always been something else that has been done wrong. 

That said, to RISK the double protection of the oil to try to overcome what, in my experience, is something else done wrong is a RISK that I wouldn't take.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sat, May 12, 2018, 22:53 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from sailormon included below]

Hi Miles,

Here is the page from my Amel manual. Possibly yours is different. For the first 4 or 5 years I hauled Kimberlite every year and sanded the bottom and painted it. Now I do her every other year.

This summer I had the bottom paint removed to the Gel coat .

 

Every time she was out of the water, I also did the zincs, WOB with seals, line cutter,  and bowthruster.

As we both know these are inexpensive items and I don’t understand the hubbub about trying to make the WOB last longer. I have always installed the seals with the 2 closest to the oil ( as per the drawing) with the spring side facing the oil , and the outboard one with the spring side facing the prop. Just goes to show you that your method and mine both work.  If you look at the text in the drawing they use either 3 8 mm lip seals or 2 12 mm seals.

 

Looking forward to seeing you for the 4th.

 

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

 

 

Jose, Craig,

 

I don’t understand why two years has any significance.  The original Amel instructions were to change the wearing out bearing every 650 hours.  How much the bearing wears is a function of engine hours not time.   Any valid comparison test would need to for the same number of hours at the same engine speed.

For over 5000 engine hours, I have changed the wearing out bearing using lots of silicone grease and following the Amel instructions of the first bearing facing in and the outer two bearings facing out.  I have done this (or Amel has done it) every 650 hours or so.  I have never had any problem of water in the oil or loss of oil.    I have had  my boat since it was new and I learned early on that everything that Amel does or recommends is for a reason.   

 

Regards,

 

Miles

s/y Ladybug, sm 216, Le Marin Martinique

Props and rpm

Patrick McAneny
 

I had flexofold suggest a prop and pitch that would allow the engine reach its max rpm , in my case 4500 . I now just read on the Max prop website , that their prop would also allow the engine to reach full rpm ,"in flat water." I wrote back to Flexofold that this did not sound correct , as my fixed prop does not allow me to get beyond 3000, and I have not read about anyone else able to reach rpms that high. I would think  reaching max torque would be the goal . Should a prop/ pitch allow an engine to obtain max rpms ? I don't know what to think or what is correct on this subject, and I may owe Flexofold a retraction.

Thanks,

Pat

SM #123

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage

Barry Connor
 

Hi Ruedi,
Do you have the Bose entertainment? I had a leak and disconnected things one by one. I found the leak was the salon TV. Disconnected the TV from the system and have not had any current leaks since.

Best Regards
Barry

Barry and Penny Connor
“Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Sailing in the Adriatic 


On May 13, 2018, at 10:30, Rudolf Waldispuehl Rudolf@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi everyone 

I do have the same strange behaviour with the 24V negative leak. Sorry, I’m late with my response because I was not on WASABI and tried to trace down last few days.

I found a leak at the Furuno heading sensor box. But from time to time (comes and goes daily) I have a strong Neg. leak. Which I found initially on the forward toilette pump and was happy I could reproduce the leak. Problem solved! 

Few days later I got the same pattern back with the strong Negative leak again. At this time it in not the Furuno sensor, nor the toilet pump. 
I have to disconnect all potential sources one by one again, which I have no time right now. Will do it later and report back.  

Fair winds
Ruedi 
"SY WASABI"
Amel 54. #55

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Mittwoch, 25. April 2018 um 16:06
An: Yahoo Group Amel <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage

 

Hi everyone, 

Our DC leakage detector is showing a leak on the negative. I investigated any AC charger + DC USB potential issue as mentioned previously on the group and didn't find any culprit. 

However, it highlighted this strange fact: when I push the switch up to test for bad connection between negative and grounding, the light comes on and slowly goes off in about 3 seconds. If I test again, it doesn't come on. I need to wait for 10 , 15 minutes for it to 'recharge'. It looks like a capacitor discharging. 

Has anybody experienced this before? Does it give a clue to what could be the source of the leak?

Otherwise I'll start the usual investigation disconnecting everything from the batteries end.

Thanks in advance,

Fair winds 

Thomas

S\V GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Saint Martin, FWI

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage

ya_fohi
 

Hi all,

I also see this. I connect my laptop headphone socket to the onboard stereo aux input and found that this is the culprit.

Cheers,
Paul

Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage

Alan Leslie
 

It's the ground wires  you need to disconnect one by one until you find the source.
The equipment that is grounded  is generally equipment that is in contact with salt water and it is salt water leaks that cause the problem. Prime culprits are the head pumps ...leaking shaft seals is the issue.
Otherwise anything that is connected to the AC system (if you have a Calpeda A/C pump ... that is the only connection between AC and DC ground) like a laptop charger that may have internally the DC negative connected to the AC ground.
Good luck
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Hi everyone 

I do have the same strange behaviour with the 24V negative leak. Sorry, I’m late with my response because I was not on WASABI and tried to trace down last few days.

I found a leak at the Furuno heading sensor box. But from time to time (comes and goes daily) I have a strong Neg. leak. Which I found initially on the forward toilette pump and was happy I could reproduce the leak. Problem solved! 

Few days later I got the same pattern back with the strong Negative leak again. At this time it in not the Furuno sensor, nor the toilet pump. 
I have to disconnect all potential sources one by one again, which I have no time right now. Will do it later and report back.  

Fair winds
Ruedi 
"SY WASABI"
Amel 54. #55

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Mittwoch, 25. April 2018 um 16:06
An: Yahoo Group Amel <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage

 

Hi everyone, 

Our DC leakage detector is showing a leak on the negative. I investigated any AC charger + DC USB potential issue as mentioned previously on the group and didn't find any culprit. 

However, it highlighted this strange fact: when I push the switch up to test for bad connection between negative and grounding, the light comes on and slowly goes off in about 3 seconds. If I test again, it doesn't come on. I need to wait for 10 , 15 minutes for it to 'recharge'. It looks like a capacitor discharging. 

Has anybody experienced this before? Does it give a clue to what could be the source of the leak?

Otherwise I'll start the usual investigation disconnecting everything from the batteries end.

Thanks in advance,

Fair winds 

Thomas

S\V GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Saint Martin, FWI

FW: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush***RESPONSE TO *** IMPORTAN

eric freedman
 

If you will see in my note to miles. Amel suggested either 3-8 mm lip seals or 2-12 mm lip seals.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376’

 

 

From: sailormon [mailto:kimberlite@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2018 11:52 PM
To: 'amelyachtowners@...'
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush***RESPONSE TO *** IMPORTAN

 

Hi Miles,

Here is the page from my Amel manual. Possibly yours is different. For the first 4 or 5 years I hauled Kimberlite every year and sanded the bottom and painted it. Now I do her every other year.

This summer I had the bottom paint removed to the Gel coat .

 

Every time she was out of the water, I also did the zincs, WOB with seals, line cutter,  and bowthruster.

As we both know these are inexpensive items and I don’t understand the hubbub about trying to make the WOB last longer. I have always installed the seals with the 2 closest to the oil ( as per the drawing) with the spring side facing the oil , and the outboard one with the spring side facing the prop. Just goes to show you that your method and mine both work.  If you look at the text in the drawing they use either 3 8 mm lip seals or 2 12 mm seals.

 

Looking forward to seeing you for the 4th.

 

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

 

 

Jose, Craig,

 

I don’t understand why two years has any significance.  The original Amel instructions were to change the wearing out bearing every 650 hours.  How much the bearing wears is a function of engine hours not time.   Any valid comparison test would need to for the same number of hours at the same engine speed.

For over 5000 engine hours, I have changed the wearing out bearing using lots of silicone grease and following the Amel instructions of the first bearing facing in and the outer two bearings facing out.  I have done this (or Amel has done it) every 650 hours or so.  I have never had any problem of water in the oil or loss of oil.    I have had  my boat since it was new and I learned early on that everything that Amel does or recommends is for a reason.   

 

Regards,

 

Miles

s/y Ladybug, sm 216, Le Marin Martinique

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush***RESPONSE TO *** IMPORTAN

eric freedman
 

Hi Miles,

Here is the page from my Amel manual. Possibly yours is different. For the first 4 or 5 years I hauled Kimberlite every year and sanded the bottom and painted it. Now I do her every other year.

This summer I had the bottom paint removed to the Gel coat .

 

Every time she was out of the water, I also did the zincs, WOB with seals, line cutter,  and bowthruster.

As we both know these are inexpensive items and I don’t understand the hubbub about trying to make the WOB last longer. I have always installed the seals with the 2 closest to the oil ( as per the drawing) with the spring side facing the oil , and the outboard one with the spring side facing the prop. Just goes to show you that your method and mine both work.  If you look at the text in the drawing they use either 3 8 mm lip seals or 2 12 mm seals.

 

Looking forward to seeing you for the 4th.

 

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

 

 

Jose, Craig,

 

I don’t understand why two years has any significance.  The original Amel instructions were to change the wearing out bearing every 650 hours.  How much the bearing wears is a function of engine hours not time.   Any valid comparison test would need to for the same number of hours at the same engine speed.

For over 5000 engine hours, I have changed the wearing out bearing using lots of silicone grease and following the Amel instructions of the first bearing facing in and the outer two bearings facing out.  I have done this (or Amel has done it) every 650 hours or so.  I have never had any problem of water in the oil or loss of oil.    I have had  my boat since it was new and I learned early on that everything that Amel does or recommends is for a reason.   

 

Regards,

 

Miles

s/y Ladybug, sm 216, Le Marin Martinique

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Facing in or out--- SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush

eric freedman
 

Craig,

Please reread what I wrote, I believe you misread what I wrote.

What you wrote is what I said . I call one side the rubber side and the other the spring side.

I was not questioning how many seals went which way.

I have changed my WOB and lip seals about 10 times over the last 16 years and with attention to detail and a lot of silicone grease there will not be a leak. I install them the way Amel originally installed them with the 2 seals nearest the C drive having the spring side facing the oil  and the last seal with the spring side facing the prop. Look at drawing 13 of the appendix in the owner’s manual.

The first time I changed the seals I used the prop grease and it leaked.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2018 5:46 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Facing in or out--- SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush

 

 

Hi Eric,

Just the opposite, I think, but I'm sure Jose will clarify.  He's got the first two seals with the lip (or spring) side facing aft, or "out" and the last (outer) seal facing "in", that is, with its lip side facing forward toward the oil. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Cheers, Craig



---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

Jose,

Just to clarify things about this discussion.

I assume that when you say the lip seal is facing in you mean that the rubber side is facing towards the C drive  and when you say out you mean the spring side is facing the C drive.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

.

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 6:36 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

 

 

Danny and Bill,

 

First, I don't take it personally.... (text clipped)



 In my experiment I had both the inner and central seals with the lips facing the propeller (preventing water from coming in but allowing oil to move out)  The outer seal was facing the C-drive, thus acting to prevent the oil from leaking out but allowing some lubrication by the water.  

.....(text clipped)

Fair winds

 

Jose

Ipanema SM2K 278

 

 

 

 

 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Cancelling my membership from this forum

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

Rink,
I regret your decision. Perhaps you are overreacting. Stay with as. 

Vladimir

On May 11, 2018 8:49 AM, "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear all,

I am cancelling my membership from this forum.
After a private discussion with Bill and his obvious immense support I have to conclude we don't share the same values.

Thanks for all good advice and interaction in the past 10 years.

Best regards,

Rink
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Date: 2018-05-11 13:53 GMT+02:00
Subject: From Bill ROUSE
To: Rink de Haan <rinkdehaan@...>
Cc: lji004@gmail..com


Rink,

I incorrectly CC'D Jose at his old email address. His current email address is lji004@...

I am not going to get into a finger pointing situation with you. I mentioned Judy to Jose because he knows Judy. And, even if he didn't know Judy, the fact that she was in recovery has as much to do with it as you stating that I am a Texan.

You have been rude, childish, and offensive to not only me, but others in the Group. You are disruptive and contribute very little good information.

I have always stated that I am the self-appointed Amel Advocate in the Amel Owners Group. I know that I have saved others tens of thousands of Euros by preaching the mantra to "not change anything for a year." I have also advocated keeping your Amel pure and unadulterated. I call this the Amel Way. I am not going to respond to your Solar Arch accusations, or anything else.

I have blocked your email address and will no longer see your emails because I do not want to see them. I suggest that you do the same because you obviously have a problem with me.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Fri, May 11, 2018, 03:36 Rink de Haan <rinkdehaan@...> wrote:
Dear Bill and Jose Luis,

I appreciatie the opportunity to discuss Amel Owner Group communication policy together with Jose Luis.

In my 10 years as an owner and member of this group I have never insulted, nor reacted negatively towards Bill.
I have checked all my postings on the slightest possibility of this. I have found only positive reactions. So I would like to ask Bill to provide the examples. 
Bill is confusing me with someone else or he is just dishonest and trying to influence the discussion with Jose Luis. 
I am also really sorry for Bill and his wife of her being in hospital though I don't understand where it is related to our discussion. So let's please stick to the factual part of the discussion.

I apologize for binging the Texan aspect in if it hurts Bill's feelings. I was referring to a posting of Bill dated  April 19, 2015 were he stated that he is much aware of the Texan element when he stated "I hope that I do not come across too arrogant, but I am a Texan and it is in my DNA...some things cannot be helped. ;)". I am in the opinion that Bill crossed the line of decency in the discussion with Jose. He did not responded to the real message of Jose, but merely turned it into a rant for The Amel Way (of which every member of this group is aware). 
No opinion should be used in a way that it creates frustrated members and block any discussion outside of The Amel Way.
The example of the arch is just to question if The Captain would have advised to do this (as The Amel Way). 

I would like to ask Jose Luis to have a close look at the conversation Bill had with Jose and determine if this is in line with the way of the forum where exchanging views and thoughts are to be treated with respect and not to be killed by having ownership of the absolute truth. No one has!

If Jose Luis decides I crossed the line, I will apologize to Bill and the group.

Leaves me to state that I absolutely value Bill's contributions though the way he puts them sometimes is hard to swallow. 

Looking forward for your replies,

Rink




2018-05-10 23:50 GMT+02:00 Bill Rouse <brouse@...>:
Rink,

I have never said a single insulting or rude word to you.

You have personally insulted me on the Amel Owners Group 3 times in about 5 years.

You asked for the Group Moderator to talk to me because I support the Amel Way and because I am a Texan. I am very proud to say you are correct.

I copied the Group Owner so that he is aware of what you want and so you can email him directly.

BTW, I received your last public insult to me on the Amel Owners Group today when I was consoling my wife at the hospital...she was recovering from surgery. 

There is one more sentence in this email which is from my heart, but not visible to you because we are not face-to-face. When a Texan has stern words for someone, it is always face-to-face.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Rink,

I am very glad you are not leaving the forum.
Sometime in the heat of the action we write things quickly.

I remember long ago, I wrote that I stop a diesel engine blocking the air intake with my hand , I got slammed… my feeling got a bit hurt, I could have argued about the (small size) of the engine, bla bla bla, and actually be right about it, but overall people were right, I should have use a piece of wood. I am glad I didn’t leave the forum back then and I think a few people are as well.

So definitely glad you are staying.

Sincerely, Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 5/12/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, May 12, 2018, 1:36 PM


 










With you on that
RinkRegardsDannySM 299 Ocean
Pearl
On 12 May 2018 at 21:46 "Rink de Haan
rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]"
<amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

  
Thanks Jose, you are right.With my tone of voice I didn’t
achieve what I wanted. I apologize to everyone who’s
offended.Let’s keep up
the good work of this forum.RegardsRink 

 
From:
amelyachtowners@...
<amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of
lji0041@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>

Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 5:13:27 PM
To:
amelyachtowners@...

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling
my membership from this
forum  Hi
mates,
I am sorry if I
cannot follow the details on this. I just made an exercise
to look in the database.
What I could see is that you guys
have helped each other and the rest of mates through all
these years.
It is a
pity that we cannot see each other sharing some beers in the
canteen, as if we were on the same port. Probably it would
be different.
Definitely, the email and sequels
were invented by the devil, so we have to be careful in how
we use it, because we cannot see our faces and lose a lot of
the communication.
Forums like this, where the goal is
to help each other, cannot afford losing valued members. I
wish you could pick up the phone and see what is really
going on.
Wish I could
be with you guys in the middle of a real storm. I know I
would be safe.
Jose

Re: Facing in or out--- SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

Hi Eric,
Just the opposite, I think, but I'm sure Jose will clarify.  He's got the first two seals with the lip (or spring) side facing aft, or "out" and the last (outer) seal facing "in", that is, with its lip side facing forward toward the oil. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

Jose,

Just to clarify things about this discussion.

I assume that when you say the lip seal is facing in you mean that the rubber side is facing towards the C drive  and when you say out you mean the spring side is facing the C drive.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

.

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 6:36 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

 

 

Danny and Bill,

 

First, I don't take it personally.... (text clipped)


 In my experiment I had both the inner and central seals with the lips facing the propeller (preventing water from coming in but allowing oil to move out)  The outer seal was facing the C-drive, thus acting to prevent the oil from leaking out but allowing some lubrication by the water.  

.....(text clipped)

Fair winds

 

Jose

Ipanema SM2K 278

 

 

 

 

 

Facing in or out--- SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

eric freedman
 

Jose,

Just to clarify things about this discussion.

I assume that when you say the lip seal is facing in you mean that the rubber side is facing towards the C drive  and when you say out you mean the spring side is facing the C drive.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

.

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 6:36 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

 

 

Danny and Bill,

 

First, I don't take it personally our interaction and also respect and by-enlarge agree with your conservative approach to keeping the boat as close as possible to the original design.  I also agree that the safest approach for new owners, particularly those without background or experience should stay within the original specs.  So I don't see as a personal argument but more as an open discussion that may or may not lead to a better solution for some of the small issues of our boats. 



For example, adding grease ports to the furling gears can prolong the life of these very expensive parts for a long time.  The "amel way" resulted in the replacement of two gears by the previous owner and onece by me.  This is a clear example of how the "amel way" COULD BE can be improved.

 

Now, we all know that milky oil in the C-Drive is something common in most of our boats in spite of trying to strictly follow the "amel way".   We also know that Amel has been experimenting with ways to reduce the premature entry of water by making harder bushings and that in Martinique they have been changing the scheme having two seals to prevent water in and only one to prevent oil out.  You also told me that they now recommend heavier oil and that they had worked on a  hardened bushing surface that seems to work but Maud told me that they did not plan to sell them it in the future.  So even Amel has recognized the need to work on reducing the incidence of water leaking into the C-Drive which may not kill it but even you would agree is not good.  And that has been my motivation to write these posts.

 

As for Danny statement that oil cannot leave because it is lighter than water, it all depends on which direction the seals are oriented. With the Amel way, water is only prevented to come by the outer seal. Once it is gone, water can flow up along the two other seals that are not preventing that motion. In my experiment I had both the inner and central seals with the lips facing the propeller (preventing water from coming in but allowing oil to move out)  The outer seal was facing the C-drive, thus acting to prevent the oil from leaking out but allowing some lubrication by the water.  My experience was that after 4 and 1/2 seasons there was a very slow reduction of the oil level when the outer seal/bushing wore out.  However, this leak was eliminated by adding the additive that made the oil heavier.  So, water or oil can move in or out depending on the direction of the seals that remain working.  

 

With my approach, the outer seal was the only one preventing oil from leaving and, just as I observed, oil began to flow out very slowly when that seal/bush surface wear developed a leak since the two inner seals did not prevent the flow of oil out.  The good news was that the leak was very very slow and that making the oil heavier acted to make that last seal work again since the additional viscous pressure drop forced the seal lip towards the shaft preventing or minimizing a further oil leak.  Note that from there on the seal was well lubricated by a minimal oil leak and likely would have kept working for a long time before oil began to flow out again.  

 

The good news is that this approach allows you to keep sailing until you find the proper place to do the repair and, as in my experience of 5 seasons without damaging the C-Drive.  Note that I kept the bushing/seals in place as an experiment and not as a recommendation to the general user, BUT MY EXPERIENCE LEADS ME TO RECOMMEND THE ALTERNATIVE SEAL ORIENTATION to eliminate the milky oil and give you the time to find a proper site for repairing it 

 

Of course, everyone is free to take it or not my recommendation and I hope that within the coming years we compare notes to see how things are going.  I do promise that I will immediately report if my C-Drive freezes ;)

 

No hard feelings and this closes my chapter FOR this topic until at least 2 years.

 

Fair winds

 

Jose

Ipanema SM2K 278

 

 

 

 

 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

With you on that Rink

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 12 May 2018 at 21:46 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Thanks Jose, you are right.
With my tone of voice I didn’t achieve what I wanted. I apologize to everyone who’s offended.
Let’s keep up the good work of this forum.
Regards
Rink
 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of lji0041@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 5:13:27 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum
 
 

Hi mates,


I am sorry if I cannot follow the details on this. I just made an exercise to look in the database.

What I could see is that you guys have helped each other and the rest of mates through all these years.

It is a pity that we cannot see each other sharing some beers in the canteen, as if we were on the same port. Probably it would be different.

Definitely, the email and sequels were invented by the devil, so we have to be careful in how we use it, because we cannot see our faces and lose a lot of the communication.

Forums like this, where the goal is to help each other, cannot afford losing valued members. I wish you could pick up the phone and see what is really going on.

Wish I could be with you guys in the middle of a real storm. I know I would be safe.

Jose

 

 

 


 

 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: genua traveller pulley

Herbert Lackner
 

thx John and Bill,

I checked now the Antal product range, 801.060 might fit.

As I am not on the boat and want to organize everything before returning to the boat and going to the pacific, maybe there is a proud santorin owner who could check if these dimensions would fit.

thx, herbert

http://www.antal.it/eng/801-060_en
 
Batten dimensions 15 mm Ø sheave (D) 60 mm Side bearing Torlon balls Radial bearing composite fibre Weight 160 gr Ø max line 14 mm SWL 2200 kg Sheave material Aluminum D2 15 mm Thickness (T)


38 mm

 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: genua traveller pulley

 

Herbert,

I remember Ian Shepherd, SM FREESPIRIT, replaced or repaired the Antal Genoa Car on his SM. I believe it is identical to the SN.

Email Ian Shepherd yahoo.co.uk>. Maybe he has the specific information.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970





On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 9:13 AM, john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Herbert,

     I don't have a ready answer to your direct question other than on my 1990 SM the hardware is all Antal.  But I will ask, have you disassembled the pulley already?   Last month I noticed a similar issue with one of the pulleys on one of my genoa cars.  It was creaking and squeaking as genoa sheet tension changed.  Hosing it down did nothing to stop the sound.  The pulley was turning however but was hard to move.    I disassembled the unit and found the roller bearings were dry and a 3mm piece of one of them had chipped off and was lodged in the bearing.  As we were in transit, I did an "underway repair"   by cleaning everything up and greasing the rollers with small amount of marine grease.  Voila!  no more squeak and a free spinning roller.  
This particular piece of hardware has "open bearings" as is the case with most  sailbo at exterior hardware.  Salt and other debris can build up inside and "gum up" the works.  I routinely hose them down to keep that from happening.  They normally don't use grease, especially if they have plastic bearings, mine were metal so a spot of grease won't hurt.  If they are plastic though a bit of teflon spray lube is probably OK.  Disassembly was easy, just the one bolt through the center.  

Sorry if I am preaching to the choir.    Regards,  John

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Druif Bay USVI


---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

hi all,

the pulleys on KALI MERAs genua travellers are end of life, genua sheet is sliding in the roller / pulley and pulley is not turning anymore.  Does anyone know a source for a replacement?& nbsp;

Size (in mm) is:

* outer diameter -  59,5
* inner diameter - 14,25 (where the bolt goes through)
* width - 37

has anyone found a source where that can be purchased ready built? has anyone made a replacement? what material did you use?

thx, herbert

KALI MERA, SN120, on the hard at Shelter Bay Panama




Re: genua traveller pulley

John Clark
 

Hi Herbert,
     I don't have a ready answer to your direct question other than on my 1990 SM the hardware is all Antal.  But I will ask, have you disassembled the pulley already?   Last month I noticed a similar issue with one of the pulleys on one of my genoa cars.  It was creaking and squeaking as genoa sheet tension changed.  Hosing it down did nothing to stop the sound.  The pulley was turning however but was hard to move.    I disassembled the unit and found the roller bearings were dry and a 3mm piece of one of them had chipped off and was lodged in the bearing.  As we were in transit, I did an "underway repair"   by cleaning everything up and greasing the rollers with small amount of marine grease.  Voila!  no more squeak and a free spinning roller.  
This particular piece of hardware has "open bearings" as is the case with most  sailboat exterior hardware.  Salt and other debris can build up inside and "gum up" the works.  I routinely hose them down to keep that from happening.  They normally don't use grease, especially if they have plastic bearings, mine were metal so a spot of grease won't hurt.  If they are plastic though a bit of teflon spray lube is probably OK.  Disassembly was easy, just the one bolt through the center.  

Sorry if I am preaching to the choir.    Regards,  John

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Druif Bay USVI


---In amelyachtowners@..., <herbert@...> wrote :

hi all,

the pulleys on KALI MERAs genua travellers are end of life, genua sheet is sliding in the roller / pulley and pulley is not turning anymore.  Does anyone know a source for a replacement? 

Size (in mm) is:

* outer diameter -  59,5
* inner diameter - 14,25 (where the bolt goes through)
* width - 37

has anyone found a source where that can be purchased ready built? has anyone made a replacement? what material did you use?

thx, herbert

KALI MERA, SN120, on the hard at Shelter Bay Panama



genua traveller pulley

Herbert Lackner
 

hi all,

the pulleys on KALI MERAs genua travellers are end of life, genua sheet is sliding in the roller / pulley and pulley is not turning anymore.  Does anyone know a source for a replacement? 

Size (in mm) is:

* outer diameter -  59,5
* inner diameter - 14,25 (where the bolt goes through)
* width - 37

has anyone found a source where that can be purchased ready built? has anyone made a replacement? what material did you use?

thx, herbert

KALI MERA, SN120, on the hard at Shelter Bay Panama



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum

Alan Leslie
 

Good words Rink

Let's carry on !

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437