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Re: SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush
Commendable restraint, Bill. Carry on.
Cheers, Craig ---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote : Jose, I said I don't want to argue. I respect you and your right to your opinion. All I intend to do is to state the other side, which is the "Amel Way." To say anything else, would likely be a rebuttal, so this is my only reply. Best, Bill Rouse
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***
Jose, I said I don't want to argue. I respect you and your right to your opinion. All I intend to do is to state the other side, which is the "Amel Way." To say anything else, would likely be a rebuttal, so this is my only reply. Best, CW Bill Rouse Admiral, Texas Navy Commander Emeritus Amel School www.amelschool.com 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] ChesapeakeRendezvous?
Our SM "It's Good" is sitting in the Severn River, just off of Mobjack Bay for the season, so Jennifer and I could more than likely make it as well. It would be good to meet everyone since we bought our SM just last August. Keep me posted. Mark and Jennfer S/V It's Good SM #105
On May 09, 2018, at 03:43 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***
Jose Venegas
Bill,
I cannot see how you can state that you are certain I installed the seals wrongly the first two times when I followed religiously the "amel way" and ended up with water in the C-Drive oil within two years of use. Also, I don't think that your answer to the water vs oil is so obvious: having salt or dirty water in the transmission is not good and certainly worse than having the level of oil drop by a few mm with can be topped up. In fact, it is recommended to check the level of transmission oil as much as the engine oil level before each engine start!. But let me be clear: lubricated SEALS DONT fail catastrophically and certainly not 3 at a time. Stating that I will only know about oil loss when the C-Drive meltdown is the same as saying that the C-Drive oil could be completely replaced with water while you are motoring along; IT JUST DOES NOT HAPPEN. The most important finding of my experiment was that the loss of oil ACTUALLY stopped AFTER I added an additive to the oil that effectively made it heavier. It was the same additive used for old engines to prolong their life before full repair. Not only I had no oil loss during use the last month of the season, and during the 5 months winter layover, but while the boat was hauled out and I waited for the bushing to arrive (5 days), there was not a single drop of oil out of the shaft !! That tells me that even though there was wear on the outer seal and bushing surface (see my pix in facebook) and that wear initially allowed some oil to escape after more than 4 years of use, when the oil was thickened, the seal began to work again and my guess is that it would have worked for a long time since it was now being lubricated in reverse due to the bushing wear. Also worth adding is that when I drained the oil from the C-Drive, it was as good as new. This is to be expected since, unlike engine oil, on the C-Drive the oil is not exposed to combustion materials and heavy temperatures and remains viable as long as no water leaks in. But, to avoid further discussion on the mater, let me be clear: I AM NOT RECOMMENDING TO SERVICE THE C-DRIVE EVERY 8 YEARS. I am just saying that "the amel way" for this particular issue can be improved and my experiment demonstrates it without any doubt. Personally, I will continue to replace the seals and oil every two years, or when the boat is wouled out but I am pretty sure that I will be able to reuse the bushing a few times, particularly after I have it chromed and I will continue reporting my experience in this forum. Jose
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Re: SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bushing
OK, Jose, we've got a date for two years from now (or 400 hours, or milky oil; whichever comes first!).
My reading of the SKF engineer's recommendation was that the inner seal would face the oil and the outer two would face the water, but on re-reading it he really wasn't explicit on that, possibly assuming a conventional oil-facing orientation. Not that I'm "buying it" yet, but I do follow your logic of putting the inner seal in "backwards", ie. facing out to allow oil to seep out and lubricate the other seals (and water to seep in through the outer seal and also provide lubrication). I say "backwards" as compared with a conventional lip seal application, say your engine's main crank shaft where the seals face the oil and get no lubrication (other than microscopic oil seepage, perhaps, or, of course, if it's the rear seal of a Perkins 4-108 that always leaks profusely!). Moreover, in "normal" applications the lips are rubbing against a very hard shaft, which I really think is the crux of the problem, ie., our bearing is too soft, rather than the orientation of the seals. To be continued... Cheers, Craig SN68 Sangaris ---In amelyachtowners@..., <jvenegas@...> wrote : Thank you Craig, A truly interesting post. I was interested to see that in your post about the SKF expert he/she states "Finally, I would arrange the seals with 2 facing the water and one facing the oil as long as there is no pressure difference."THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I DID IN MY EXPERIMENT! Plus I would add that the 2 seals facing the water should be the central and inner seals to make sure they get lubricated when the grease wears out AND THE OUTER SEAL deteriorates. PS; Since you used the AMEL seal configuration and the standard bronze bushing, and I did it at the same time but with the two seals facing the water, in two years we should compare results. Fair winds Jose
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hull keel join weeping on a super maramu 2000
Mike. I might be able to help. Friend us on FB . Loca Lola II. Ian S/V Loca Lola II SM153
On May 10, 2018, at 7:43 AM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fwd: Re: Volvo TMD22A specs
Patrick McAneny
Danny, Pertaining to this subject, I have just received an email from Flexofold after requesting a quote on a folding prop .I had sent them all the engine and trans specs., and told them that my max rpms was 3000 and I now have a fixed prop 21x16 LH . They proposed a 20X12 and stated that 21 "looked to big" and that would allow me to reach the full rpm potential of my engine , 4500 rpm. This ladies title is export sales manager , I almost believe she chose the prop , rather than a prop specialist . I wrote her back that reaching 4500 rpms was not , nor should not be the goal in selecting the proper prop size/pitch. Max torque is about 2500 rpm . I am not instilled with confidence , and will be looking at other props. FYI , I cannot install an Autoprop as my keel was not modified to except it ,as later models were.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
If you leave now , you guys could be here for the Rendezvous , it would be great to see ya again.
Pat
SM Shenanigans
-----Original Message----- From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] To: amel owners Sent: Wed, May 9, 2018 8:39 pm Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fwd: Re: Volvo TMD22A specs ---------- Original Message ----------
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hull keel join weeping on a super maramu 2000
Mike, Have you eliminated the possibility that the leak is freshwater. I am aware of a SM that had a hard grounding that caused a leak between the cast iron ballast and the keel stub, which is the freshwater tank. Until you have totally eliminated this possibility, I recommend that it is NOT sealed. Best, CW Bill Rouse Admiral, Texas Navy Commander Emeritus Amel School www.amelschool.com 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush***RESPONSE TO *** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***
Jose, We all need to be aware that there are people new to this group. I think I understand to danger of people new-to-Amel not understanding or being misinformed better than most because I have instructed 41 clients. You have contributed valuable information to this group and I agree with many of your postings. I was hoping to NOT say another word on this subject, but long ago I became the self-appointed supporter of what I call the "Amel Way." In that "role," I respectfully ask you to say, "...in your opinion, and contrary to Amel's design and instructions..." because you are completely aware that what you say is contrary to Amel's design and written instructions regarding the C-Drive. Of course, you have your opinion, and can perform this C-Drive service anyway you want to. In my opinion, I would not RISK a C-Drive, costing tens of thousands of Euros to extend the life of a bushing and seals. Further, water in the oil will be known by observing the color. Oil leaking out will only be realized when the C-Drive seizes. Amel obviously chose to ensure oil in the C-Drive. Lastly, please don't make this an engineering argument. Although I could, I will not. My statements above are to inform those "new-to-Amel" to respect the Amel Way, or RISK significant expenses. My statements are NOT to argue your test or conclusion. I wouldn't do that in this Group. Best, CW Bill Rouse Admiral, Texas Navy Commander Emeritus Amel School www.amelschool.com 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
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Re: SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush***RESPONSE TO *** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***
Ian,
I hadn't though about the prop shaft alternator, as I removed mine some time ago (have a genset), but it certainly seems reasonable that the heavier SAE90 oil will present more resistance and likely slow the shaft alternator. I'd say stick with the 10w40. Cheers, Craig (PS. I think Bill Rouse's comment was that the C drive oil viscosity wouldn't materially affect the engine speed, with which I agree - but your comment was about the SN shaft alternator, with which Bill isn't familiar.) ---In amelyachtowners@..., <parkianj@...> wrote : Craig I am waiting in anticipation. Amel Martinique’s replaced mine 2 years ago (but we missed last season’s cruising). However I already had the parts which included a phosphor bronze copy of the wearing out bushing. An engineer friend of my son had looked at the schematic drawings of the whole set up and suggested£ that it would work better with a harder material. The seals were put in the way you stated with two facing the water. In the meantime I’m keeping an eye on the colour of the oil........ Still don’t know whether changing to SAE 90 would slow down the prop shaft alternator. Anyone got a professional view? Ian Ocean Hobo SN96 Isles des Saintes
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main sheet boom slider broken [1 Attachment]
The biggest problem is the main sheet attachment. We've broken two of them becsause of over enthusiatic crew on the mainsheet button
My solution : 1. make an aluminium piece of the same thickness but a bit longer and WELD it to the boom. 2. trip the cct breaker for the main sheet winch so it MUST be wound in manually. Cheers Alan Elyse SM437....just arrived Savusavu, Fiji.....
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush***RESPONSE TO *** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***
Jose Venegas
Ian,
The order of the seals is important to make sure they get lubricated. The first and second seals you mount should have the lips facing the propeller and the last facing the transmission. putting them in a different order will prevent lubrication and lead to premature failure. In which order did you assemble the seals? Good luck and let me know how it worked out. Jose
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hull keel join weeping on a super maramu 2000
eric freedman
Mike, I hit a whale doing over 10 Knots down a wave off the Canaries. It stopped us dead. There was no damage to the hull keel joint. I would ask the owner why this repair was necessary. Personally having seen how the keel is attached at the factory, I would pass on the boat. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 10:07 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hull keel join weeping on a super maramu 2000
Hull 251 . The repair was a weep .
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hull keel join weeping on a super maramu 2000
What is the hull number of that SM? Best, CW Bill Rouse Admiral, Texas Navy Commander Emeritus Amel School www.amelschool.com 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hull keel join weeping on a super maramu 2000
Stephen Davis
Hi Mike, Congratulations on joining a great group of owners with Amels. Yes, this repair is a bit unusual, as it would take a lot of force to damage this area on an SM. You will need to describe what happened, and what was done to repair this in a bit more detail before we can comment. There are some very knowledgeable owners who are active on this forum who can probably help you determine how serious this might be. Unless a surveyor is very familiar with the SM, and how they are constructed, I may not completely trust what they have to say about it. I would hold off closing on this deal until you can tell us more about the damage and repair, and hear back from some of the more knowledgeable owners about how serious it may be. Best Regards, Steve Davis Aloha SM72 Ko Olina, Hawaii
On May 9, 2018, at 14:43, mfw642000@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: Volvo TMD22A specs
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
---------- Original Message ----------
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Re: Volvo TMD22A specs
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Pat. Welcome to the confusion club. Many of us have been there and are the wiser for it. 2800 rpm is the correct under load revs for the Tmd 22. It will cheerfully rev to over 4000 no load. However if the waste gate on the turbo is siezed the motor will over turbo and fo 4000 rpm inder load
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush***RESPONSE TO *** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***
If the change in the weight of the oil slows the prop shaft, you have engine problems. I am sure you don't have engine problems...you will be fine. Best, CW Bill Rouse Admiral, Texas Navy Commander Emeritus Amel School http://www.amelschool.com 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 3:19 PM, Ian parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***
Jose Venegas
Thank you Craig, A truly interesting post.
I was interested to see that in your post about the SKF expert he/she states "Finally, I would arrange the seals with 2 facing the water and one facing the oil as long as there is no pressure difference."THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I DID IN MY EXPERIMENT! Plus I would add that the 2 seals facing the water should be the central and inner seals to make sure they get lubricated when the grease wears out AND THE OUTER SEAL deteriorates. PS; Since you used the AMEL seal configuration and the standard bronze bushing, and I did it at the same time but with the two seals facing the water, in two years we should compare results. Fair winds Jose
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Re: SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush***RESPONSE TO *** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***
Ian Park
Craig
I am waiting in anticipation. Amel Martinique’s replaced mine 2 years ago (but we missed last season’s cruising). However I already had the parts which included a phosphor bronze copy of the wearing out bushing. An engineer friend of my son had looked at the schematic drawings of the whole set up and suggested£ that it would work better with a harder material. The seals were put in the way you stated with two facing the water. In the meantime I’m keeping an eye on the colour of the oil........ Still don’t know whether changing to SAE 90 would slow down the prop shaft alternator. Anyone got a professional view? Ian Ocean Hobo SN96 Isles des Saintes
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