Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Expected RPM at WOT

Porter McRoberts
 

Dean, you and Bill have both come to very similar conclusions and I think they are by far the best fit to explain the circumstances. 
Some “soundthinking” indeed. And very appreciated. 

The other issue I am dealing with is interacting with self described technicians not mechanics. People who look at screens not think about systems.   Nothing against nurses but why I think we still need doctors (when they are doing their jobs well!). 

I appreciate your thinking very much. 

Porter
A54-152


Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Sep 1, 2018, at 9:16 AM, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,
Further to my last ...

Here’s a scenario...

Let’s assume your boost sensor is reading higher than it should (faulty sensor) or the pressure IS higher than it should be (faulty Turbo?).
Let’s also guess that the software which reads this pressure signal reacts by limiting the rpm from going any higher when some max pressure value is reached, say 120/130kPa. (Seems like a reasonable reaction),

This scenario would produce the symptom you are seeing.

In the no-load situation, the boost pressure does not get high enough to limit the rpm, and it just tops out at 3200 as usual.
In the load situation the pressure (or pressure perceived by the sensor) reaches a maximum limit and the software prevents rpm from going any higher.

This could also explain the Autoprop effect you saw. The AP may have loaded the engine erratically, such that max boost was reached in an instantaneous way because of the erratic load and the software immediately tried to reduce rpm. The smoother load curve of the fixed prop would probably not affect the engine so dramatically.

Guesswork in the dark.

Cheers
Dean


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Expected RPM at WOT

Porter McRoberts
 

Nick. Thanks again. I agree!!  
This is long block #3 for this 1800hr D3
Bill Rouse and I think the devil is in the other parts. The “short block” timing system or electronics. 

Yesterday I compared WOT out of gear: 3200 rpm with no prop but in gear WOT: 3190rpm

 I think this test exonerates all but the engine itself. The only outlier could be the boat itself. But we have a clean hull. Not a barnacle or a growth. So weight??? We’re pretty full. 500 l of fuel but a full load with spares and  scuba tanks an air compressor etc. I think I may do a full water tank test run vs empty water tank test run. See what a 2000 lb difference makes. 

The other issue is Volvo. They’ve gone to ground. I think they are at a loss as well. But zero comms yesterday. It’s the weekend now. I’ll be curious what happens Monday. If anything. 

Thanks again

Porter
A54-152



Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:37 AM, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Porter,
This may be nothing, but for completeness I’ll mention it.

You seem to be hitting near max boost rather early, with pressure of 120kPa at 2200 rpm.
On my test with Autoprop, I was between 90/100KPa at 2200 and didn’t hit 120kPa until 2500rpm.
Your test was with fixed prop, and I would expect my pressure would be even lower with a fixed prop.

That’s a significant difference in my book, particularly with a software controlled engine.

For your reference, my no-load (neutral) turbo pressure numbers right now are as follows.

RPM. kPa

1400 0
1600 10
1800 10
2000 10
2200 20
2400 30
2600 30
2800 40
3000 40
3200 50 (WOT)

Can’t have too much data!

Cheers
Dean


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Washing machine removal

Porter McRoberts
 

I’d get 3 bottles. 
One for the machine. 
Two for you!

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Sep 1, 2018, at 11:24 AM, sharongbrown@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Excellent, thank you very much, just what I was hoping for ... better go find some champagne first, or would that be tempting fate??!!


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Washing machine removal

ya_fohi
 

Excellent, thank you very much, just what I was hoping for ... better go find some champagne first, or would that be tempting fate??!!


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Toe pulley (headsail)

greatketch@...
 

€214 for the "Poulie entraineuse universelle/ALU" That's the two pieces needed for one side of the boat.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <divanz620@...> wrote :

Bill,
Can you tell us what the price was ?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


ZF transmission

Paul Osterberg
 

How often should one change the oil in the ZF Transmission? assume just pump out the old oil and fill new , how much oil is it in the transmission? ATF is that the same as 90w Gear oil?

Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Measuring Volvo TMD-22 oil level

Ryan Meador
 

Thank you. That's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure!


On Sat, Sep 1, 2018, 8:22 AM 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Ryan and Kelly,

 

On the engine it is designed to give the correct level when the dipstick is fully inserted and pressed down.

 

The opposite is true on the ZF transmission. The correct why to check ATF to not fully reinsert the dipstick but to let it rest without screwing it back in for a correct reading.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 8:08 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Measuring Volvo TMD-22 oil level

 

 

Hi all, silly question here... What is the correct way to take a reading of the oil level in my Volvo TMD-22: do I insert the dip stick fully, or do I just rest it on top of the tube?

 

Thanks,

 

Ryan and Kelly

SM 233 Iteration

Boston, MA, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Expected RPM at WOT

Porter McRoberts
 

Thank you Dean. 
This will help. I’ll run it out of gear and see what comparisons I get. I think the devil is in the load algorithm though. And to respect the little bugger we might have to sacrifice the whole. I hope not!!!!


Porter A54-152. 

I’ll run the test. Thanks again!!



Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:37 AM, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Porter,
This may be nothing, but for completeness I’ll mention it.

You seem to be hitting near max boost rather early, with pressure of 120kPa at 2200 rpm.
On my test with Autoprop, I was between 90/100KPa at 2200 and didn’t hit 120kPa until 2500rpm.
Your test was with fixed prop, and I would expect my pressure would be even lower with a fixed prop.

That’s a significant difference in my book, particularly with a software controlled engine.

For your reference, my no-load (neutral) turbo pressure numbers right now are as follows.

RPM. kPa

1400 0
1600 10
1800 10
2000 10
2200 20
2400 30
2600 30
2800 40
3000 40
3200 50 (WOT)

Can’t have too much data!

Cheers
Dean


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Expected RPM at WOT

Dean Gillies
 

Porter,
Further to my last ...

Here’s a scenario...

Let’s assume your boost sensor is reading higher than it should (faulty sensor) or the pressure IS higher than it should be (faulty Turbo?).
Let’s also guess that the software which reads this pressure signal reacts by limiting the rpm from going any higher when some max pressure value is reached, say 120/130kPa. (Seems like a reasonable reaction),

This scenario would produce the symptom you are seeing.

In the no-load situation, the boost pressure does not get high enough to limit the rpm, and it just tops out at 3200 as usual.
In the load situation the pressure (or pressure perceived by the sensor) reaches a maximum limit and the software prevents rpm from going any higher.

This could also explain the Autoprop effect you saw. The AP may have loaded the engine erratically, such that max boost was reached in an instantaneous way because of the erratic load and the software immediately tried to reduce rpm. The smoother load curve of the fixed prop would probably not affect the engine so dramatically.

Guesswork in the dark.

Cheers
Dean


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Expected RPM at WOT

Porter McRoberts
 

Thanks Courtney 
Maybe that’s the way to go!!

We’re getting a top lesson in patience, and despite this situation enjoying the hell out of ourselves. Whales galore, beautiful islands, dolphins on the bow for hours at a time. Girls getting back into school. Awesome and incredibly understanding and supportive wife and family, cool and helpful folks at our “local marina” ha!  Now I really have to learn the white floppy things above us!   And this is an amazing boat.  The plan was to reject the usual and let the world mold us into something new, tighter, more appreciative, patient, sentient and kind. It’s happening. The trip is on the inside. 

We’ll get there! Whenever there is ready for us. 

That’s our mantra this am!

Porter and Crew
S/V IBIS 54-152
Isla Contadora, Panama







Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:02 AM, Courtney Gorman Itsfun1@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Sounds to me that you should just go fast!  LOL 

Sorry for your continued difficulties, just keep enjoying paradise and smile, it makes everything better!  Cheers
Courtney
s/v Trippin'
54 #101 Grenada


-----Original Message-----
From: Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Fri, Aug 31, 2018 4:51 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Expected RPM at WOT

 
Dean thank you


The turbo does spin up. More with load of course. I am able to measure pressure. 


1000 rpm temp 78c and 0 kPa quiet
1500 rpm temp 79c and 20 kPa high pitched whir sound bit no vibration
2000 rpm temp 81c and 70 kPa quiet
2200 rpm WOT 84c and 110/120 kPa quiet


Volvo has yet to respond. 

Porter. 
A54-152



Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 31, 2018, at 3:16 PM, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups..com> wrote:

 
Hi Porter,
No question remains in my mind that this is a problem for Volvo.

Re Nick’s observation, does the turbo spin up?
I wonder if the turbo is load controlled or just rpm controlled.
If it operates in concert with load being applied, maybe the fault is still associated with the boost sensor.

I’ll check mine in the morning for comparison.

Cheers
Dean


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Expected RPM at WOT

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Porter,
This may be nothing, but for completeness I’ll mention it.

You seem to be hitting near max boost rather early, with pressure of 120kPa at 2200 rpm.
On my test with Autoprop, I was between 90/100KPa at 2200 and didn’t hit 120kPa until 2500rpm.
Your test was with fixed prop, and I would expect my pressure would be even lower with a fixed prop.

That’s a significant difference in my book, particularly with a software controlled engine.

For your reference, my no-load (neutral) turbo pressure numbers right now are as follows.

RPM. kPa

1400 0
1600 10
1800 10
2000 10
2200 20
2400 30
2600 30
2800 40
3000 40
3200 50 (WOT)

Can’t have too much data!

Cheers
Dean


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Measuring Volvo TMD-22 oil level

Mark Erdos
 

Ryan and Kelly,

 

On the engine it is designed to give the correct level when the dipstick is fully inserted and pressed down.

 

The opposite is true on the ZF transmission. The correct why to check ATF to not fully reinsert the dipstick but to let it rest without screwing it back in for a correct reading.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 8:08 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Measuring Volvo TMD-22 oil level

 

 

Hi all, silly question here... What is the correct way to take a reading of the oil level in my Volvo TMD-22: do I insert the dip stick fully, or do I just rest it on top of the tube?

 

Thanks,

 

Ryan and Kelly

SM 233 Iteration

Boston, MA, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Expected RPM at WOT

Courtney Gorman
 

Sounds to me that you should just go fast!  LOL 
Sorry for your continued difficulties, just keep enjoying paradise and smile, it makes everything better!  Cheers
Courtney
s/v Trippin'
54 #101 Grenada


-----Original Message-----
From: Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Fri, Aug 31, 2018 4:51 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Expected RPM at WOT

 
Dean thank you


The turbo does spin up. More with load of course. I am able to measure pressure. 


1000 rpm temp 78c and 0 kPa quiet
1500 rpm temp 79c and 20 kPa high pitched whir sound bit no vibration
2000 rpm temp 81c and 70 kPa quiet
2200 rpm WOT 84c and 110/120 kPa quiet


Volvo has yet to respond. 

Porter. 
A54-152



Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 31, 2018, at 3:16 PM, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Hi Porter,
No question remains in my mind that this is a problem for Volvo.

Re Nick’s observation, does the turbo spin up?
I wonder if the turbo is load controlled or just rpm controlled.
If it operates in concert with load being applied, maybe the fault is still associated with the boost sensor.

I’ll check mine in the morning for comparison.

Cheers
Dean


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Toe pulley (headsail)

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Redouan

that sounds like a good solution....

I would be interested in a pair.....

Thanks
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Toe pulley (headsail)

Red1 Stella SM359
 

Hello,

I had the same problem but AnneSofie from Lady Annila has had stainless steel ones made by a SS specialist in Finland that look like they could last a lifetime.  I am in contact with them to get a price and for sure I could get a group order if required once I get mine made.  Bill Kenny and Anne Sofie gave me sketches as I am not on the boat at the moment.

I will test the new one installed and tested in October I hope and revert back.

Regards,

Redouan.
Stella SM349

On 1 Sep 2018, at 09:50, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Bill,

Can you tell us what the price was ?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Toe pulley (headsail)

Alan Leslie
 

Bill,
Can you tell us what the price was ?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Toe pulley (headsail)

greatketch@...
 

Maud just shipped us two pairs of these. I guess she received them from the supplier.

Bill Kinney
SM160,  Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Alan Leslie
 

Here's another photo of the installation looking down from the companion way. It can be seen that there is room to get around the seat, no problem.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Alan Leslie
 

It's all here....thus is my seat...I didn't get it from Vetus...but is the same seat


Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
Port Vila, Vanuatu


Re: Measuring Volvo TMD-22 oil level

greatketch@...
 

Ryan,

I have always checked mine by inserting it all the way in.  

As far as I can seen, there are no details about how to do this in the manual.  It just seemed the "right" way in the absence of other instructions.  Reinforcing this, is that it reads "full" after I put the specified amount of oil in the crankcase.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA