Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

 

Clean the inside pump walls well when changing the impeller...use sand paper.and make sure the inside wall is smooth. Also, change the impeller every 200-225 hours...you will not lose a blade unless you use Globe impellers if you follow the above.

It is much easier to remove the pump than to try to change the impeller with the pump attached.

Do not let a single drop of saltwater fall on anything. Use towels and a wet vacuum.

This works, I promise.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system referred to above.


On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 5:59 PM 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Ok,
So Onan’s spec C (and later) uses the 132-0459 pump (G702 in Sherwood’s taxonomy). It can be found for less than 300$. 

Based on the diagrams, the impeller for the newer pump is much bigger. I wonder if it bears the same risk of losing blades that could make their way to the heat exchanger. 
In other words, wouldn’t instaling a handy strainer like Perigee’s and CreamPuff’s be superfluous with such a pump? (It’s one of our projects)

Fair winds

Thomas & Soraya 
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curaçao 

On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 at 17:49, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Yes, Onan 132-0459 Raw Water Pump (Replaces 132-0358) and was the raw water pump on most of the Onans installed in SMs and 54s, including the 11kw Onan. The pump is made by Sherwood Pumps...their model is G702


I hope this helps you.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system referred to above.


On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 3:50 PM 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from S/V Garulfo included below]

Hi Alex,

if you register on this cummins website
https://quickserve.cummins.com/ with the s/n of your generator, you can get pdf versions of all relevant documents to your model (parts / installation/ operators's manuals).
You can get the S/N, model and Spec (letter) from the plate at the front of your generator. (the plate also has common part numbers, but not the water pump)

Our generator is 11MDKBN / spec D, and the parts manual shows (p.80) 132-0358 Pump, [raw] water  for spec a-b, and 132-0459 for spec C onwards.
We have been told that 132-0459 replaces old ref 132-0358 , and also that they are interchangeable.  Still investigating...

Soraya
Garulfo A54-122
Curacao

On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 at 10:39, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Mark,
I found the G702 on Amazon and would like to order one as a spare.
However, I need to be sure that pump is the right one for my MDKAW model from 2005. Do all ONAN that we use on our AMELS have the same pump? Where can i  ask/research to be sure in case there are different Sherwood pumps for our ONANS available?
Thans, Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54 #15


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Shaft Brake-ATF Leak

Alan Leslie
 

When the engine is stopped and the spring whose compression you adjust with that bolt on the end has pushed the piston all the way such that the brake pads are gripping the disc, there's very little fluid in the cylinder. 
I've taken it all apart and put it back together without bleeding it and it seems fine. 
Considering that the only way to bleed it would be when the engine is running and the gearbox is delivering pressure down the hose to the brake cylinder (which is what keeps the brake pads off the disc) I'm not that keen to attempt it !
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
Port Havannah, Vanuatu 


Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

Alan Leslie
 

Be careful with ordering replacement pads....they're not all the same.
I sent Maud pictures of ours and she sent back pictures of what she had and none of them were like ours.
A brake shop, is probably the best bet
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
Port Havannah, Vanuatu


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

Sv Garulfo
 

Ok,
So Onan’s spec C (and later) uses the 132-0459 pump (G702 in Sherwood’s taxonomy). It can be found for less than 300$. 

Based on the diagrams, the impeller for the newer pump is much bigger. I wonder if it bears the same risk of losing blades that could make their way to the heat exchanger. 
In other words, wouldn’t instaling a handy strainer like Perigee’s and CreamPuff’s be superfluous with such a pump? (It’s one of our projects)

Fair winds

Thomas & Soraya 
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curaçao 

On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 at 17:49, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Yes, Onan 132-0459 Raw Water Pump (Replaces 132-0358) and was the raw water pump on most of the Onans installed in SMs and 54s, including the 11kw Onan. The pump is made by Sherwood Pumps...their model is G702


I hope this helps you.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system referred to above.


On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 3:50 PM 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from S/V Garulfo included below]

Hi Alex,

if you register on this cummins website
https://quickserve.cummins.com/ with the s/n of your generator, you can get pdf versions of all relevant documents to your model (parts / installation/ operators's manuals).
You can get the S/N, model and Spec (letter) from the plate at the front of your generator. (the plate also has common part numbers, but not the water pump)

Our generator is 11MDKBN / spec D, and the parts manual shows (p.80) 132-0358 Pump, [raw] water  for spec a-b, and 132-0459 for spec C onwards.
We have been told that 132-0459 replaces old ref 132-0358 , and also that they are interchangeable.  Still investigating...

Soraya
Garulfo A54-122
Curacao

On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 at 10:39, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Mark,
I found the G702 on Amazon and would like to order one as a spare.
However, I need to be sure that pump is the right one for my MDKAW model from 2005. Do all ONAN that we use on our AMELS have the same pump? Where can i  ask/research to be sure in case there are different Sherwood pumps for our ONANS available?
Thans, Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54 #15


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] D3-110I-C Wandering RPM

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 



To porter. The differing sog  is often current. Your boat speed log is speed through the water. Sog is pver the ground.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2018 at 16:26 "Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

 

Sea trial 8/29/18 2 min timed test



1000 rpm temp 78c and 0 kPa quiet

1500 rpm temp 79c and 20 kPa high pitched whir sound bit no vibration

2000 rpm temp 81c and 70 kPa quiet

2200 rpm WOT 84c and 110/120 kPa quiet


Zero rpm wandering for first hour, slight wandering after an hour. 


I guess it was the prop!?!


I’ll send it back to be rebuilt. 


I’ll also be interested to see what a longer motor is like. 


Could play increase in the c-drive with warm oil and cause the slight wandering?  Why after an hour did that present. 


Also. Other question sent to Volvo: what’s up with the 2200 wot???  Ended up going 8.6 kts sog one direction and 9.2 kts sog in the other. Minimal chop. 


Porter 

A54-152




Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 29, 2018, at 2:20 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Dean, and hive of cognoscenti.


Please have a look at this video if you’d be so kind:



I started noticing your description several months ago. Pre boost pressure sensor fault, pre long block failure. We hauled out in Martinique in April. Serviced c drive, autoprop etc. I noticed that 2 of the autoprop arms fell with gravity alone. The third needed coaxing from a finger. More grease and it was better but never equivalent to the other 2. Minimal vibration. Hard to know how much vibration is normal as only have had the boat 1.5 years. Never motored on another 54 or SM for that matter. 

So.... after finding sputtering oil from the dipstick confirming to Volvo the Long block was shot we had a new long block installed and engine back in the boat Friday with sea trial last Saturday. While out of the water I sanded and acid washed the prop. Still noted one arm stiffer than the other. But not worse that it had been. 

During the sea-trial we had  Lots of rpm variability such as dean described but even +/-50-100 rpm. But not close to what is seen in the video. Our WOT was held to 2360. CDM/Volvo with their vodia computers hooked to the engine blessed it and said it was good. Hands washed they said the variability had to come from the prop. (I had not disclosed my observations under the hull while out of the water). 

This Last Monday real world test: we set out southwest from Panama City to isla Contadora. RPM wandering was much higher- this is when Video was taken. Wasn’t the most relaxing of trips in addition to being late and arriving in the dark we had an explosion of late afternoon lightning storms with webs of red and blue current above us. 

So we’re at anchor south of Contadora, arrived safely and this am I dove and switched the autoprop to the fixed, spare prop. Thanks Bill Rouse and James Cromie!  

Sea-trial this afternoon. 

I’ll report findings. 

Thanks to everyone!!


Porter/Helen Grace and Lilly. 
Ibis
A54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 29, 2018, at 10:27 AM, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Gang,
I’ve been wondering for most of this summer about the wandering rpm in my D3-110-C motor. I’ve noticed that occasionally the rpm will wander around by 20-40rpm over a period of a second or so. It is obvious to the ear, as well as being shown in the instrument readout, and seems to be particularly prevalent when mooching around in the 1000-1500 rpm range. Haven’t noticed it so much at higher rpm.

I also don’t recall hearing it last year, but we were pretty overloaded with new stuff last year, it’s possible I just didn’t notice it.

Since I’ve now installed a new gearbox, I’ve kind of eliminated any issues on that front (ie pressure drops/shaft brake application)

This year I changed from the original fixed prop to an Autoprop, which is also a new piece of kit to me. Could this be related to the autoprop blades doing something erratic and momentarily loading up the motor?

Do others observe this behaviour? I guess with the trials and tribulations that Porter has gone through this year with his D3-110 we are all paying a bit more attention to this troublesome power plant.

Many thanks
Dean
SY Stella
Amel 54#154

 

 


 


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Shaft Brake-ATF Leak

Drew Gaffney
 

Thank you Eric and Bill.
Will service the brake cylinder on return to Revelation later next month.  
Additional question:  Is there a need to bleed the system?  I noticed that there's a large "set screw" on the forward end of the brake cylinder.  I've had to disconnect the hydraulic line several times and haven't done any bleeding, but disassembly will likely empty the fluid from the cylinder.
Drew
SV Revelation SM2K #390
Carloforte, Sardinia


Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

Drew Gaffney
 

Maud has replacement pads.  That's the easiest solution to worn pads.  If you need them quickly, many "old-time" brake shops resurface the pads.  We had ours fixed in Tangir-20Euro's.  We estimated the excursion on the brake caliper and got 8mm thick replacement pads.  That's approximate.  Someone with a spare set could confirm ideal thickness.
Drew
SV Revelation SM2K#390
Carloforte, Sardinia


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump [1 Attachment]

 

Yes, Onan 132-0459 Raw Water Pump (Replaces 132-0358) and was the raw water pump on most of the Onans installed in SMs and 54s, including the 11kw Onan. The pump is made by Sherwood Pumps...their model is G702


I hope this helps you.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system referred to above.


On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 3:50 PM 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from S/V Garulfo included below]

Hi Alex,

if you register on this cummins website
https://quickserve.cummins.com/ with the s/n of your generator, you can get pdf versions of all relevant documents to your model (parts / installation/ operators's manuals).
You can get the S/N, model and Spec (letter) from the plate at the front of your generator. (the plate also has common part numbers, but not the water pump)

Our generator is 11MDKBN / spec D, and the parts manual shows (p.80) 132-0358 Pump, [raw] water  for spec a-b, and 132-0459 for spec C onwards.
We have been told that 132-0459 replaces old ref 132-0358 , and also that they are interchangeable.  Still investigating...

Soraya
Garulfo A54-122
Curacao

On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 at 10:39, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Mark,
I found the G702 on Amazon and would like to order one as a spare.
However, I need to be sure that pump is the right one for my MDKAW model from 2005. Do all ONAN that we use on our AMELS have the same pump? Where can i  ask/research to be sure in case there are different Sherwood pumps for our ONANS available?
Thans, Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54 #15


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Expected RPM at WOT

 

Porter,

If you can easily spin the prop in neutral with the shaft brake OFF, the C-drive isn't adding friction.

I think that you have two remaining possibilities:
  1. The brand new transmission is faulty, when it was not faulty before the long block change (I think very, very unlikely)
  2. Volvo Computer is not allowing higher RPMs for some unknown reason.
With a new transmission, a changed prop (which Volvo spec'd in the 1st place), and the c-drive tested, I have to believe that the problem is with the Volvo Computer. There is one more reason I point to the Volvo Computer: Of all of the possibilities, it is the most likely because of our combined experience with Volvo, the D3 and its computer.

I will happily write Volvo a more detailed explanation when you get to that point.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system referred to above.


On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 2:05 PM Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Nick. Yes. Thank you. 


Re WOT out of gear: 3100rpm

The transmission is fairly new:  replaced in he spring. 


Re friction within the cdrive. 

With engine idling in neutral, brake open I swim under the boat and can easily spin the prop. 

How can I better evaluate resistance in the system?: motor—New ZF tranny—vetus(friction??)— cdrive— prop. 

I think the next step is to take the fixed prop off. 
I need a gear puller to get it off I think (which I don’t have and need to get (any recommendations?).. Unless anyone has another suggestion? Tying the autoprop puller to the fixed prop using low stretch amsteel?  

Again all very good suggestions. 

Let’s say it is the cdrive. What then??????

Thank you all!!

Porter 

Amel 54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 30, 2018, at 12:47 PM, Nick Newington ngtnewington@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Sorry Porter,


Just going over the email again.

You have max RPM of 2200 at WOT with the new fixed prop, right? If so that can not be correct. It should be around 2850.  I doubt Amel would supply a spare prop that is not correct for the engine, at least not to that degree. To be so far from the desired RPM at WOT may cause problems with your new engine. 

What RPM can you achieve out of gear? 

What about the C drive? Have you checked that is working without friction? 


On my 54 with 2006 D3 110 and the Autoprop I get 2850 at WOT, with a clean prop and hull. 

Nick



On 30 Aug 2018, at 15:46, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thank you everyone for your thoughts re our engine woes they are quite appreciated. 


May I ask thoughts re expected rpm during WOT with the supplied fixed prop on the Amel 54?


Has anyone with the fixed prop determined an observed RPM with WOT?  Volvo is telling me that they think 2200 is due to too large a prop. Now I know the H6 is a slight over propping, reducing the expected 3100-3200 Volvo D3-110 to your observed 2900ish range. 

But 2200 (our WOT RPM with the fixed prop in calm seas) is much lower than 2900, and I have a hard time thinking such a great drop is due to the lack of prop arm adjustment for appropriate bite as seen with the autoprop. 

Any data would be very appreciated. 

Many thanks

Porter Helen Grace and Lilly
S/V Ibis A54-152
Isla Contadora, Panama

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 30, 2018, at 5:40 AM, Nick Newington ngtnewington@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Porter,

I watched the video that is a massive reduction in RPM. Is their black smoke when it does that because it looks like the engine is seriously overloaded and about to stall?

So the fixed blade prop stops it right. Therefore there is nothing wrong with the engine itself.

Thus it must be something to do with the Bruntons Autoprop, which is a variable pitch prop.

The pitch varies automatically in order to maximise efficiency. "The Autoprop blades, unlike those of conventional propellers, maximise the thrust delivered whatever rpm the yachts engine is running at “

quote from Autoprop website.

So if the thrust  is maximised at all times then load on the engine must vary a bit. Just like say the big alternator kicking in when one runs a heavy load off it, say a toaster for example. So I would expect a slight variability in the rpm as the load on the engine varies but not like in your video.

Agreed there is something wrong with the prop. You could strip it down yourself, it is pretty easy, before returning for service.


Nick

Amelia (Amel 54 019) back at home for a bit.

On 30 Aug 2018, at 10:44, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Porter,

Wow, that is a pretty major "wander" in the video, so glad to see it was resolved by changing prop.  
Your numbers look ok, except for WOT 2200 seems awfully low. I think you do need to follow that up with Volvo, particularly with the fixed prop now in place.

I checked my WOT this morning in flat water/no wind and it was stable at 2920rpm.  

I also took a short video of the wandering I was referring to, its in the" ZF25 Transmission" folder in the files section.  It shows a variation from 1170 to 1210, difficult to hear the engine note on the video, but 40rpm variation is just enough to make the ears prick up!. Given yours and Mohammad's observations, i'll put it down to propeller effects.

I've also uploaded my Sea Trial results from a few weeks ago after we had the gearbox fitted.
It was a bit choppy and breezy, so the speeds are a bit lower than we get in flat water.

Danny, and others - I've solved my oil leak.  Not sure exactly what to attribute it to.
I found an extra 1/4 turn on one of the fwd end sump bolts, but I've also done my regular oil/filter change including replacing the Oring on the oil filter cap.  One of those things solved it - I suspect the filter cap may have been the culprit.   

Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
AMEL 54 #154







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi Alex,

if you register on this cummins website
https://quickserve.cummins.com/ with the s/n of your generator, you can get pdf versions of all relevant documents to your model (parts / installation/ operators's manuals).
You can get the S/N, model and Spec (letter) from the plate at the front of your generator. (the plate also has common part numbers, but not the water pump)

Our generator is 11MDKBN / spec D, and the parts manual shows (p.80) 132-0358 Pump, [raw] water  for spec a-b, and 132-0459 for spec C onwards.
We have been told that 132-0459 replaces old ref 132-0358 , and also that they are interchangeable.  Still investigating...

Soraya
Garulfo A54-122
Curacao

On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 at 10:39, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Mark,
I found the G702 on Amazon and would like to order one as a spare.
However, I need to be sure that pump is the right one for my MDKAW model from 2005. Do all ONAN that we use on our AMELS have the same pump? Where can i  ask/research to be sure in case there are different Sherwood pumps for our ONANS available?
Thans, Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54 #15


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Expected RPM at WOT

ngtnewington Newington
 

Porter,

Yes pull the prop and run it in gear. If it gets to 3100 rpm  or near then it is not the c drive. You need a three legged prop puller or some other contraption, but it is something you can do in the water with a dive tank. So at least you are not waiting on some engineer who does not turn up and charge you a fortune. 

Are you still in Panama City side? You could get  two plates made with three bolts between and a central threaded pin/bolt onto shaft to act as a puller. The inner plate has a slot cut so it can fit over the shaft. It will come easy with the right tool. 

It may be another red herring but at least you can eliminate one thing after another.

Good luck.


Nick



 

On 30 Aug 2018, at 20:05, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Nick. Yes. Thank you. 


Re WOT out of gear: 3100rpm

The transmission is fairly new:  replaced in he spring. 


Re friction within the cdrive. 

With engine idling in neutral, brake open I swim under the boat and can easily spin the prop. 

How can I better evaluate resistance in the system?: motor—New ZF tranny—vetus(friction??)— cdrive— prop. 

I think the next step is to take the fixed prop off. 
I need a gear puller to get it off I think (which I don’t have and need to get (any recommendations?).. Unless anyone has another suggestion? Tying the autoprop puller to the fixed prop using low stretch amsteel?  

Again all very good suggestions. 

Let’s say it is the cdrive. What then??????

Thank you all!!

Porter 

Amel 54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 30, 2018, at 12:47 PM, Nick Newington ngtnewington@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Sorry Porter,


Just going over the email again.

You have max RPM of 2200 at WOT with the new fixed prop, right? If so that can not be correct. It should be around 2850.  I doubt Amel would supply a spare prop that is not correct for the engine, at least not to that degree. To be so far from the desired RPM at WOT may cause problems with your new engine. 

What RPM can you achieve out of gear? 

What about the C drive? Have you checked that is working without friction? 


On my 54 with 2006 D3 110 and the Autoprop I get 2850 at WOT, with a clean prop and hull. 

Nick



On 30 Aug 2018, at 15:46, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thank you everyone for your thoughts re our engine woes they are quite appreciated. 


May I ask thoughts re expected rpm during WOT with the supplied fixed prop on the Amel 54?


Has anyone with the fixed prop determined an observed RPM with WOT?  Volvo is telling me that they think 2200 is due to too large a prop. Now I know the H6 is a slight over propping, reducing the expected 3100-3200 Volvo D3-110 to your observed 2900ish range. 

But 2200 (our WOT RPM with the fixed prop in calm seas) is much lower than 2900, and I have a hard time thinking such a great drop is due to the lack of prop arm adjustment for appropriate bite as seen with the autoprop. 

Any data would be very appreciated. 

Many thanks

Porter Helen Grace and Lilly
S/V Ibis A54-152
Isla Contadora, Panama

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 30, 2018, at 5:40 AM, Nick Newington ngtnewington@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Porter,

I watched the video that is a massive reduction in RPM. Is their black smoke when it does that because it looks like the engine is seriously overloaded and about to stall?

So the fixed blade prop stops it right. Therefore there is nothing wrong with the engine itself.

Thus it must be something to do with the Bruntons Autoprop, which is a variable pitch prop.

The pitch varies automatically in order to maximise efficiency. "The Autoprop blades, unlike those of conventional propellers, maximise the thrust delivered whatever rpm the yachts engine is running at “

quote from Autoprop website.

So if the thrust  is maximised at all times then load on the engine must vary a bit. Just like say the big alternator kicking in when one runs a heavy load off it, say a toaster for example. So I would expect a slight variability in the rpm as the load on the engine varies but not like in your video.

Agreed there is something wrong with the prop. You could strip it down yourself, it is pretty easy, before returning for service.


Nick

Amelia (Amel 54 019) back at home for a bit.

On 30 Aug 2018, at 10:44, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Porter,

Wow, that is a pretty major "wander" in the video, so glad to see it was resolved by changing prop.  
Your numbers look ok, except for WOT 2200 seems awfully low. I think you do need to follow that up with Volvo, particularly with the fixed prop now in place.

I checked my WOT this morning in flat water/no wind and it was stable at 2920rpm.  

I also took a short video of the wandering I was referring to, its in the" ZF25 Transmission" folder in the files section.  It shows a variation from 1170 to 1210, difficult to hear the engine note on the video, but 40rpm variation is just enough to make the ears prick up!. Given yours and Mohammad's observations, i'll put it down to propeller effects.

I've also uploaded my Sea Trial results from a few weeks ago after we had the gearbox fitted.
It was a bit choppy and breezy, so the speeds are a bit lower than we get in flat water.

Danny, and others - I've solved my oil leak.  Not sure exactly what to attribute it to.
I found an extra 1/4 turn on one of the fwd end sump bolts, but I've also done my regular oil/filter change including replacing the Oring on the oil filter cap.  One of those things solved it - I suspect the filter cap may have been the culprit.   

Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
AMEL 54 #154










Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Pat,

No I didn't move anything...just made up a SS plate to mount it on the pedestal so i could get my knees under the nav table.There's 43cm between the seat corner and the companion way steps at the seat level. that's plenty for us to get around...but we're not very big people, maybe that's the difference.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Pat,

I got a seat for the nav station with a fold down back. I did post photos of it and various people showed interes. I simply modified the plate provided with the seat and bolted it to the existing Amel stem. Fits well and very comfortable and not in the way. I will take a photo and post again soon.The seats are still available from our local chanlder

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 31 August 2018 at 02:53 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Hi Pat
 

Alan, I bought the seat, it seem to be too big for the area,making it difficult to get past, especially  going aft . I noticed you have a wood base at the foot of the pedestal . Did you relocate it forward a bit. Its a really nice seat and a slick design , I am going to wait to hear from you before returning it.

Thanks,
Pat
SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Aug 26, 2018 1:41 am
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

 
Thanks John,
i don't have any difficulty...I have the seat!
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
 
 

 


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan raw water pump

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, I had thought it was a post from Eric, Thanks for posting it again,looks like it really works well. We were just at Fawcetts Monday ,after picking up a repaired sail from North Sails.
Thanks Again,
Pat
SM123

-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Aug 30, 2018 2:13 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan raw water pump

 
Pat,

I had posted a solution for toilet hose cleaning on my blog.  We just finished doing again, and continue to be very happy with the product and method.    


Fawcett stocks it in their local store.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

---In amelyachtowners@...,
Eric, I cannot find Onan parts directly from Onan. I am trying to find the start /stop switch located in the galley. I am not sure I need a new switch ,but over h alf the time I try to stop the engine, I have to push the stop switch 20 -30 times. The engine stops when the switch located on the engine is used. I have not been able to find the switch from other suppliers . Also did you not post about a product that cleaned the toilet hoses very effectively . I have been trying to find the old post ,so we can buy some.
Thanks,
Pat
SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: eric kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Wed, Aug 29, 2018 11:00 pm
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan raw water pump

 
You can order parts directly from Onan. I order from the Bronx,NY warehouse.
Fair winds,
Eric 
SM 376 Kimberlite


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 09:04 PM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
Our Onan raw water pump looks as it running on overtime so we would like to order a spare pump.
Were is the best place to order when in USA. 
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259 on Sassafras river Chesapeake bay


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Expected RPM at WOT

Porter McRoberts
 

Nick. Yes. Thank you. 

Re WOT out of gear: 3100rpm

The transmission is fairly new:  replaced in he spring. 


Re friction within the cdrive. 

With engine idling in neutral, brake open I swim under the boat and can easily spin the prop. 

How can I better evaluate resistance in the system?: motor—New ZF tranny—vetus(friction??)— cdrive— prop. 

I think the next step is to take the fixed prop off. 
I need a gear puller to get it off I think (which I don’t have and need to get (any recommendations?). Unless anyone has another suggestion? Tying the autoprop puller to the fixed prop using low stretch amsteel?  

Again all very good suggestions. 

Let’s say it is the cdrive. What then??????

Thank you all!!

Porter 

Amel 54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 30, 2018, at 12:47 PM, Nick Newington ngtnewington@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Sorry Porter,


Just going over the email again.

You have max RPM of 2200 at WOT with the new fixed prop, right? If so that can not be correct. It should be around 2850.  I doubt Amel would supply a spare prop that is not correct for the engine, at least not to that degree. To be so far from the desired RPM at WOT may cause problems with your new engine. 

What RPM can you achieve out of gear? 

What about the C drive? Have you checked that is working without friction? 


On my 54 with 2006 D3 110 and the Autoprop I get 2850 at WOT, with a clean prop and hull. 

Nick



On 30 Aug 2018, at 15:46, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thank you everyone for your thoughts re our engine woes they are quite appreciated. 


May I ask thoughts re expected rpm during WOT with the supplied fixed prop on the Amel 54?


Has anyone with the fixed prop determined an observed RPM with WOT?  Volvo is telling me that they think 2200 is due to too large a prop. Now I know the H6 is a slight over propping, reducing the expected 3100-3200 Volvo D3-110 to your observed 2900ish range. 

But 2200 (our WOT RPM with the fixed prop in calm seas) is much lower than 2900, and I have a hard time thinking such a great drop is due to the lack of prop arm adjustment for appropriate bite as seen with the autoprop. 

Any data would be very appreciated. 

Many thanks

Porter Helen Grace and Lilly
S/V Ibis A54-152
Isla Contadora, Panama

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 30, 2018, at 5:40 AM, Nick Newington ngtnewington@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Porter,

I watched the video that is a massive reduction in RPM. Is their black smoke when it does that because it looks like the engine is seriously overloaded and about to stall?

So the fixed blade prop stops it right. Therefore there is nothing wrong with the engine itself.

Thus it must be something to do with the Bruntons Autoprop, which is a variable pitch prop.

The pitch varies automatically in order to maximise efficiency. "The Autoprop blades, unlike those of conventional propellers, maximise the thrust delivered whatever rpm the yachts engine is running at “

quote from Autoprop website.

So if the thrust  is maximised at all times then load on the engine must vary a bit. Just like say the big alternator kicking in when one runs a heavy load off it, say a toaster for example. So I would expect a slight variability in the rpm as the load on the engine varies but not like in your video.

Agreed there is something wrong with the prop. You could strip it down yourself, it is pretty easy, before returning for service.


Nick

Amelia (Amel 54 019) back at home for a bit.

On 30 Aug 2018, at 10:44, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Porter,

Wow, that is a pretty major "wander" in the video, so glad to see it was resolved by changing prop.  
Your numbers look ok, except for WOT 2200 seems awfully low. I think you do need to follow that up with Volvo, particularly with the fixed prop now in place.

I checked my WOT this morning in flat water/no wind and it was stable at 2920rpm.  

I also took a short video of the wandering I was referring to, its in the" ZF25 Transmission" folder in the files section.  It shows a variation from 1170 to 1210, difficult to hear the engine note on the video, but 40rpm variation is just enough to make the ears prick up!. Given yours and Mohammad's observations, i'll put it down to propeller effects.

I've also uploaded my Sea Trial results from a few weeks ago after we had the gearbox fitted.
It was a bit choppy and breezy, so the speeds are a bit lower than we get in flat water.

Danny, and others - I've solved my oil leak.  Not sure exactly what to attribute it to.
I found an extra 1/4 turn on one of the fwd end sump bolts, but I've also done my regular oil/filter change including replacing the Oring on the oil filter cap.  One of those things solved it - I suspect the filter cap may have been the culprit.   

Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
AMEL 54 #154







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan raw water pump

greatketch@...
 

Pat,

I had posted a solution for toilet hose cleaning on my blog.  We just finished doing again, and continue to be very happy with the product and method.    


Fawcett stocks it in their local store.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote :

Eric, I cannot find Onan parts directly from Onan. I am trying to find the start /stop switch located in the galley. I am not sure I need a new switch ,but over half the time I try to stop the engine, I have to push the stop switch 20 -30 times. The engine stops when the switch located on the engine is used. I have not been able to find the switch from other suppliers . Also did you not post about a product that cleaned the toilet hoses very effectively . I have been trying to find the old post ,so we can buy some.
Thanks,
Pat
SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: eric kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Wed, Aug 29, 2018 11:00 pm
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan raw water pump

 
You can order parts directly from Onan. I order from the Bronx,NY warehouse.
Fair winds,
Eric 
SM 376 Kimberlite


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 09:04 PM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
Our Onan raw water pump looks as it running on overtime so we would like to order a spare pump.
Were is the best place to order when in USA. 
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259 on Sassafras river Chesapeake bay


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Expected RPM at WOT

ngtnewington Newington
 

Sorry Porter,

Just going over the email again.

You have max RPM of 2200 at WOT with the new fixed prop, right? If so that can not be correct. It should be around 2850.  I doubt Amel would supply a spare prop that is not correct for the engine, at least not to that degree. To be so far from the desired RPM at WOT may cause problems with your new engine. 

What RPM can you achieve out of gear? 

What about the C drive? Have you checked that is working without friction? 


On my 54 with 2006 D3 110 and the Autoprop I get 2850 at WOT, with a clean prop and hull. 

Nick



On 30 Aug 2018, at 15:46, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thank you everyone for your thoughts re our engine woes they are quite appreciated. 


May I ask thoughts re expected rpm during WOT with the supplied fixed prop on the Amel 54?


Has anyone with the fixed prop determined an observed RPM with WOT?  Volvo is telling me that they think 2200 is due to too large a prop. Now I know the H6 is a slight over propping, reducing the expected 3100-3200 Volvo D3-110 to your observed 2900ish range. 

But 2200 (our WOT RPM with the fixed prop in calm seas) is much lower than 2900, and I have a hard time thinking such a great drop is due to the lack of prop arm adjustment for appropriate bite as seen with the autoprop. 

Any data would be very appreciated. 

Many thanks

Porter Helen Grace and Lilly
S/V Ibis A54-152
Isla Contadora, Panama

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 30, 2018, at 5:40 AM, Nick Newington ngtnewington@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Porter,

I watched the video that is a massive reduction in RPM. Is their black smoke when it does that because it looks like the engine is seriously overloaded and about to stall?

So the fixed blade prop stops it right. Therefore there is nothing wrong with the engine itself.

Thus it must be something to do with the Bruntons Autoprop, which is a variable pitch prop.

The pitch varies automatically in order to maximise efficiency. "The Autoprop blades, unlike those of conventional propellers, maximise the thrust delivered whatever rpm the yachts engine is running at “

quote from Autoprop website.

So if the thrust  is maximised at all times then load on the engine must vary a bit. Just like say the big alternator kicking in when one runs a heavy load off it, say a toaster for example. So I would expect a slight variability in the rpm as the load on the engine varies but not like in your video.

Agreed there is something wrong with the prop. You could strip it down yourself, it is pretty easy, before returning for service.


Nick

Amelia (Amel 54 019) back at home for a bit.

On 30 Aug 2018, at 10:44, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Porter,

Wow, that is a pretty major "wander" in the video, so glad to see it was resolved by changing prop.  
Your numbers look ok, except for WOT 2200 seems awfully low. I think you do need to follow that up with Volvo, particularly with the fixed prop now in place.

I checked my WOT this morning in flat water/no wind and it was stable at 2920rpm.  

I also took a short video of the wandering I was referring to, its in the" ZF25 Transmission" folder in the files section.  It shows a variation from 1170 to 1210, difficult to hear the engine note on the video, but 40rpm variation is just enough to make the ears prick up!. Given yours and Mohammad's observations, i'll put it down to propeller effects.

I've also uploaded my Sea Trial results from a few weeks ago after we had the gearbox fitted.
It was a bit choppy and breezy, so the speeds are a bit lower than we get in flat water.

Danny, and others - I've solved my oil leak.  Not sure exactly what to attribute it to.
I found an extra 1/4 turn on one of the fwd end sump bolts, but I've also done my regular oil/filter change including replacing the Oring on the oil filter cap.  One of those things solved it - I suspect the filter cap may have been the culprit.   

Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
AMEL 54 #154







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water ingress

ngtnewington Newington
 

Paul,

Not sure this will help but….

I had a similar situation on Amelia (an Amel 54). I  checked it and it was salty, and only happened sailing upwind in a breeze or very very heavy rain. In other words when there was plenty of water on the deck. I finally traced it to the the inner for-stay deck fitting and the baby stay fitting, the water would work its way down behind the moulded shower and into the bilge. No visible leaks.The caulking had dried out. So I just cut it back as far as I could and masked it off nicely and re-caulked it. Job done. 

Nick


On 30 Aug 2018, at 15:52, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Paul, 

Two things:
  1. If you look closely under the shower pan in the forward head, you will see places where water can go when the boat is heeling...it will get trapped there until your next rough passage.
  2. Water passing by the Thruster Tube seal will run downhill to the area outside the head. It's path will dry quickly.
Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system referred to above.


On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 9:36 AM osterberg.paul.l@...[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello! we find water under the floor board in the passage from main cabin to the front cabin. i.e. outside the forward head. that after being out in larger seas or going up wind. I thought it was the Bow thruster that was leaking. But it is totally dry under the floorboard in the forward cabin, I have a few diapers place each side of the Bowthruster and they are also dry. is there any other place where water can get in under the floor board.

we always close the drain from the forward head so that water geting in the anchor chain well not getting in the the head when leaning to port.  We have a new speed transducer but that is totally dry at least when laying at anchor that is the only source I can t hink of besides the bow thruster.

Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Patrick McAneny
 

Alan, I bought the seat, it seem to be too big for the area,making it difficult to get past, especially  going aft . I noticed you have a wood base at the foot of the pedestal . Did you relocate it forward a bit. Its a really nice seat and a slick design , I am going to wait to hear from you before returning it.
Thanks,
Pat
SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners Sent: Sun, Aug 26, 2018 1:41 am
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

 
Thanks John,
i don't have any difficulty...I have the seat!
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water ingress

 

Paul, 

Two things:
  1. If you look closely under the shower pan in the forward head, you will see places where water can go when the boat is heeling...it will get trapped there until your next rough passage.
  2. Water passing by the Thruster Tube seal will run downhill to the area outside the head. It's path will dry quickly.
Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system referred to above.


On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 9:36 AM osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello! we find water under the floor board in the passage from main cabin to the front cabin. i.e. outside the forward head. that after being out in larger seas or going up wind. I thought it was the Bow thruster that was leaking. But it is totally dry under the floorboard in the forward cabin, I have a few diapers place each side of the Bowthruster and they are also dry. is there any other place where water can get in under the floor board.

we always close the drain from the forward head so that water geting in the anchor chain well not getting in the the head when leaning to port.  We have a new speed transducer but that is totally dry at least when laying at anchor that is the only source I can t hink of besides the bow thruster.

Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259