Date   

Re: Electric water pump does not reach the bottom of fresh water tank?

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Salut Benjamin,

Your main pump pickup point is located higher in the bilge than the emergency/manual pump.

I have the same feature on my SM.

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007, New Zealand


On 18 Feb 2021, at 07:59, Benjamin Thibault <benjaminfthibault@...> wrote:



On my Maramu 86, I have about 80-100 liters left of water and no water seems to be coming out of the automatic water pump but the manual one is still working. 

Is it possible the automatic water pump does not reach the bottom of the tank? 

Thx

Benjamin 
Maramu 203


Re: Alternator charging a Lithium bank

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Doug,
The Cerbo, operating with DVCC, will certainly provide relay control for the alternator cut-off.

I believe (but have no practical experience) that the Victron BMS will interface to the Cerbo to provide the necessary signals. That is a valid solution.

However, I think that a better solution is to control the alternator cut-off directly from the BMS. This eliminates one level of abstraction and a potential point of hardware/comms failure.

The Cerbo is still a very useful device in a Victron system for all sorts of reasons that you already know!

I wonder if you actually need the BMV-712 in your system? Does the Victron Battery/BMS subsystem provide all of the same information via the Cerbo/Touch display? If so, what is the purpose of the 712? Maybe it is not required, in which case you may consider leaving the Xantrex display in-place and relocate its Shunt to monitor the 12V starting battery.   

Best regards,
Dean
SV Stella
A54-154

 


Re: Have any of you looked at the Integral System?

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

He Bill

i was also interested in two integral systems.
one of Betamarians, and Intergal's
the cost of plumbing installation was approximately 20000.00.
The problem I see shouldn't be running the diesel you're out of.
A 9-11 KW generator costs about 1,000.00
and you have two electricity systems.

best Elja
SM Baloo
222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Re: Alternator charging a Lithium bank

Doug Smith
 

Thanks Scott, Dominique and Dean.

I appreciate the real world experience. I will look more into the VE.Direct circuits and logic within the Cerbo, Victron.BMS and Cryix-Li-ct, to see if those offer the options to disconnect the Alternator regulator, when high SOC/voltage is met.  The individual cell level monitoring is certainly the reason to use the Victron BMS with Victron Batteries. I still am thinking that one of these (Cerbo or the BMS, or possibly the BVM, if it receives a command from the others) could be used to disconnect the power to the regulator, thereby turning off the charging from the alternator. I am suggesting using the existing relays that are tied to the ignition circuit, to depower the regulator. In the Cerbo manual there is a section on DVCC, (Distributed Voltage and Current Control).  Section 8 and it sounds like this then makes the Cerbo an active control device for the over voltage scenario, using information obtained from the BMS and chargers. This is my reason for bringing this conversation back to the front. If the ignition relays are the right ones, than the Cryix relay would do the trick. And it is controlled through the Victron Direct messaging from the BMS or the Cerbo.

Scott, a few of the steps you created switches for, and steps used to turn off the chargers prior to starting the generator, then ramping up the charging are largely addressed by using the Cerbo, and the Digital Multi Control panel. That was my motivation for the added devices.  Your switches won’t fail for 100 years, but my mind would likely need a checklist to ensure I didn’t skip steps or forget steps.  And the ability to monitor and manage from off the boat is a nice benefit as well.

I believe the risks to the alternator from a sudden disconnect of the BMS and batteries at low voltage has already been discussed and I am comfortable that the Sterling APD will give protection from the spike that would occur, if there were a sudden, unanticipated battery disconnect while a large alternator current was being delivered.

I have a current Mastervolt inverter, 2500 watt, that is 12 years old, and may last longer, but will be replacing with the quattro next year or so.  The other Mastervolt devices are inverters, and are not involved in the charging circuits, so I won’t be managing those through the Victron world.  They are just providing stable voltages for the electronics and low draw devices.

Thanks for the great discussion and assistance.

 

Doug Smith

S/V Aventura, Amel 54-113

Patuxent River, MD USA

 

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 5:13 AM
To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Alternator charging a Lithium bank

 

Hi Doug,

Seems you read what I wrote but it didn't provide the answers you needed? Probably the result of someone who studied economics trying to explain something way out of his pay grade. :)

I'll try to answer your questions, though.

- As Dean alluded to, you do not want to base your alternator charging cutoff on battery bank level voltages. Your Victron chargers, interfaced to your Victron BMS will do that automatically. The Quattro does it through ethernet but my Skylla-i 24/80 needed an interface wire, which of course Victron sells. I have seen my Victron BMS, which monitors cell level voltage, cut off charging while the bank voltages and my BMV-712 (which I think is a coulomb counter?) showed it was not even 90% SOC and the bank level voltage seemed fine at around 28.0v. The voltage spike on the one problematic cell was hidden by the other (4x6-1=23) cells that were not spiking.  As an aside, this imbalance occurred because I didn't charge to 100% for a few months and small cell imbalances started accumulating. That was resolved with few hours at 100% with solar and a temporarily extended (4 hr) absorption time, which allowed the batteries to self-balance at a cell level.

I cannot remember exactly where I set the alternator absorption voltage to, but I recall it being somewhere around 27.4v on the Alpha Pro II. This makes it such that my lithium batteries are never fully charged by the alternator, but I'm ok with that, especially when I find myself unhappily motoring for 24 hours in the doldrums! The 27.4v usually represents anywhere from 80-92% bank SOC - again a reminder that you can't rely on voltage to represent SOC on lithium.

I assume you wanted to install the Cyrix relay to abruptly disconnect the alternator from the battery bank if the BMS detects a cell overvolt/overtemp condition? I would not suggest that as it could damage the alternator. Maybe not, but why take the risk when you can simply use the Ve.BUS BMS "charge disconnect" wire to control the relays as I suggested in this post:
https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/50689

As Dominique stated, the Victron BMS cannot power a normal Hella relay. I tried many times and had senior techs at Victron helping me, but it simply didn't have enough power to do so.  That's why I had to put in a much lower draw solid state relay in combination with Hella relays. See the post I linked for details. It has worked perfectly for 10,000nm over a year of full time cruising since I installed that alternator cutoff system. A real engineer, who built a well known company hacking into car ECU and control systems helped me implement it, so that should give you more confidence that it works. :) The low absorption voltage is an additional protection in case one of those relays fail.

- How do you intend to have your Victron BMS control your Mastervolt battery chargers? I don't have MV chargers, so can't provide advice, but you need to make sure the MV chargers stop charging when the BMS detects a problem. 

- Clarification: the 24v alternator is a Mastervolt too, not a Volvo charger. The Volvo charger (Bosch, really) is the 12v charger and doesn't have anything to do with my lifepo4 system. Get the alt temp sensor and install it on the MV. I have never seen my alternator taper charging current due to alternator overtemp, even when it charged the bank from 30%-90% SOC. That's roughly 3.5 hours at full output on my system. But you can never be too safe if you're in the middle of the Pacific without a MV dealer nearby.

- I did not install the Cerbo, Touch GX or the DMC. I found that I could replicate most of their functions without the additional complication and parasitic power draw of those devices. It's cool stuff for sure, but there is a draw and it's simply more components to fail. 

- Make sure you can turn off your Quattro inverter easily. I think Victron says it draws 30w at idle, but I am seeing more like 45-50w. That's almost 50amps a day of parasitic loss if you kept your inverter on 24/7, equivalent to the power output of a 250w solar panel, more or less! We have a simple switch (see post linked above) that we turn on right when we use it and off when we're done. 

- I use the BMV-712 right now to keep the batteries from being kept at a high SOC by the solar, per the solution I detailed on my previous post. We are sadly away from Tengah for 3 months due to visa issues but the boat watcher tells me the batteries cycle between 65%-85% range as I intended. The bonus is that the dehumidifier I am using to burn off excess solar energy is keeping the boat dry inside. For this possible use and also the reasons mentioned above, I wouldn't use this BMV-712 programmable relay to control your alternator.

Hope this helps clarify things a bit. 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Electric water pump does not reach the bottom of fresh water tank?

Benjamin Thibault
 

On my Maramu 86, I have about 80-100 liters left of water and no water seems to be coming out of the automatic water pump but the manual one is still working. 

Is it possible the automatic water pump does not reach the bottom of the tank? 

Thx

Benjamin 
Maramu 203


Re: Have any of you looked at the Integral System?

Bill Kinney
 

Justin,

We just recently did a lot of research on power generation since we were replacing our old Onan, and this system was in the mix of options we considered. We quickly dropped it off the list when the full cost of the installation became clear. I also agree with Brent that the complexity of the system, and especially the complexity of a retro fit into an existing boat, is very high.

There are a wide variety of competing, even conflicting, needs when selecting an alternative energy system, and it is very rare than any two users (even on the same kind of boat!) will come to exactly the same answer.  To me, this system seemed to make a lot of sense for a motor yacht that spent a significant portion of it time underway. For a sailboat that spends most of its time at anchor, or sailing, I was hard pressed to understand the benefits.  Certainly in terms of overall fuel usage, generating routine house power loads with a 100 HP engine will never be as efficient a use of fuel as a much smaller engine, turning a properly sized generator--unless the 100HP motor is being used anyway, and for us that is relatively rare.

For us, and the way we use our boat, we felt there were much better, cheaper, easier to implement, paths to reliable and efficient power generation.  Other people will come to other conclusions.


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Charleston, SC, USA


Re: great source for watermaker membranes.

Matt Salatino
 

Our previous boat had a Village Marine watermaker installed. It required a special sized membrane. Expensive. I replaced the membrane housing and membrane with a standard, buy anywhere size. Capacity didn’t change at all. Very happy with the switch.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 17, 2021, at 12:32 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

😀 Filmtech makes special-length membranes for some watermaker manufacturers. I assume that the reason some watermaker manufacturers would want a membrane that is slightly shorter or longer is so that they can charge you a lot for the membrane.😀

The most common size saltwater membrane is the SW30 2540 (2.5" X 40") which is sold for near 200 euro. Of course, you can buy the exact same Filmtech membrane from some suppliers for as much as 600 euro. It's your choice, but you will receive exactly the same membrane.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 11:18 AM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

Except, from what I have been taught by THE MASTER, you have a SPECTRA water maker. Then the length is slightly shorter and you are forced to buy from SPECTRA .

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

In Storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

February 17, 2021 10:18:00

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 07:57
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] great source for watermaker membranes.

 

Remember there is one manufacturer of membranes in the world. Regardless of where you buy them, they are the same and made by Filmtech

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 6:17 PM Slavko Despotovic <slavko@...> wrote:

Hi Eric,

I am just in process of ordering membranes for my D60 dessalator. The price of SW30-2540 on the site you have in your mail is very affordable. What is your experience with them. I would need membranes in Slovenia, EU.

Regards,
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Portoroz


Re: great source for watermaker membranes.

 

 
AirWaterIce in Florida sales@... or 772-461-0256
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 12:00 PM Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill , Is there a dealer here in the States that you would recommend that have fair prices? A bit chilly down there ,I hope you have electricity ,take care.
Thanks, 
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Feb 17, 2021 12:32 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] great source for watermaker membranes.

😀 Filmtech makes special-length membranes for some watermaker manufacturers. I assume that the reason some watermaker manufacturers would want a membrane that is slightly shorter or longer is so that they can charge you a lot for the membrane.😀

The most common size saltwater membrane is the SW30 2540 (2.5" X 40") which is sold for near 200 euro. Of course, you can buy the exact same Filmtech membrane from some suppliers for as much as 600 euro. It's your choice, but you will receive exactly the same membrane.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 11:18 AM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:
Except, from what I have been taught by THE MASTER, you have a SPECTRA water maker. Then the length is slightly shorter and you are forced to buy from SPECTRA .
 
Best Regards Teun
SV AMELIT  A54  #128
 
In Storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
February 17, 2021 10:18:00
 
USA cell: +1 832 477 8842
AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909
 
 
 
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 07:57
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] great source for watermaker membranes.
 
Remember there is one manufacturer of membranes in the world. Regardless of where you buy them, they are the same and made by Filmtech
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
 
 
 
On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 6:17 PM Slavko Despotovic <slavko@...> wrote:
Hi Eric,

I am just in process of ordering membranes for my D60 dessalator. The price of SW30-2540 on the site you have in your mail is very affordable. What is your experience with them. I would need membranes in Slovenia, EU.

Regards,
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Portoroz


Re: great source for watermaker membranes.

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill , Is there a dealer here in the States that you would recommend that have fair prices? A bit chilly down there ,I hope you have electricity ,take care.
Thanks, 
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Feb 17, 2021 12:32 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] great source for watermaker membranes.

😀 Filmtech makes special-length membranes for some watermaker manufacturers. I assume that the reason some watermaker manufacturers would want a membrane that is slightly shorter or longer is so that they can charge you a lot for the membrane.😀

The most common size saltwater membrane is the SW30 2540 (2.5" X 40") which is sold for near 200 euro. Of course, you can buy the exact same Filmtech membrane from some suppliers for as much as 600 euro. It's your choice, but you will receive exactly the same membrane.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 11:18 AM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:
Except, from what I have been taught by THE MASTER, you have a SPECTRA water maker. Then the length is slightly shorter and you are forced to buy from SPECTRA .
 
Best Regards Teun
SV AMELIT  A54  #128
 
In Storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
February 17, 2021 10:18:00
 
USA cell: +1 832 477 8842
AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909
 
 
 
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 07:57
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] great source for watermaker membranes.
 
Remember there is one manufacturer of membranes in the world. Regardless of where you buy them, they are the same and made by Filmtech
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
 
 
 
On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 6:17 PM Slavko Despotovic <slavko@...> wrote:
Hi Eric,

I am just in process of ordering membranes for my D60 dessalator. The price of SW30-2540 on the site you have in your mail is very affordable. What is your experience with them. I would need membranes in Slovenia, EU.

Regards,
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Portoroz


Re: great source for watermaker membranes.

 

😀 Filmtech makes special-length membranes for some watermaker manufacturers. I assume that the reason some watermaker manufacturers would want a membrane that is slightly shorter or longer is so that they can charge you a lot for the membrane.😀

The most common size saltwater membrane is the SW30 2540 (2.5" X 40") which is sold for near 200 euro. Of course, you can buy the exact same Filmtech membrane from some suppliers for as much as 600 euro. It's your choice, but you will receive exactly the same membrane.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 11:18 AM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

Except, from what I have been taught by THE MASTER, you have a SPECTRA water maker. Then the length is slightly shorter and you are forced to buy from SPECTRA .

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

In Storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

February 17, 2021 10:18:00

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 07:57
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] great source for watermaker membranes.

 

Remember there is one manufacturer of membranes in the world. Regardless of where you buy them, they are the same and made by Filmtech

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 6:17 PM Slavko Despotovic <slavko@...> wrote:

Hi Eric,

I am just in process of ordering membranes for my D60 dessalator. The price of SW30-2540 on the site you have in your mail is very affordable. What is your experience with them. I would need membranes in Slovenia, EU.

Regards,
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Portoroz


Re: great source for watermaker membranes.

Teun BAAS
 

Except, from what I have been taught by THE MASTER, you have a SPECTRA water maker. Then the length is slightly shorter and you are forced to buy from SPECTRA .

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

In Storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

February 17, 2021 10:18:00

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 07:57
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] great source for watermaker membranes.

 

Remember there is one manufacturer of membranes in the world. Regardless of where you buy them, they are the same and made by Filmtech

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 6:17 PM Slavko Despotovic <slavko@...> wrote:

Hi Eric,

I am just in process of ordering membranes for my D60 dessalator. The price of SW30-2540 on the site you have in your mail is very affordable. What is your experience with them. I would need membranes in Slovenia, EU.

Regards,
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Portoroz


Re: Where best to locate Raymarine Evolution Autopilot EV-1 Sensor Core on Santorin

antonio scipioni
 

Hi Grant,
Last year I installed a second pilot Raymarine gyro evo with tiller in aft cabin. I use the old 6000 like a spare pilot.
I have the cpu under the berth in the saloon in the starboard side. The fluxgate is located under the chart table in the space near the passage to stern. The biggest is to create the space in the aft cabin. 


Inviato da iPhone

Il giorno 9 feb 2021, alle ore 18:35, Grant Starling via groups.io <grantstarling@...> ha scritto:

Hi Juan,

Good to hear that, thanks for the response.  I suspected it would be fine, but it’s always good to have confirmation from someone who has actually installed the EV-1 in the port-side position.

Enjoy Guadeloupe!  We have heavy snow and freezing weather at the moment in England...I know where I would rather be!!!

best
Grant

SN#42 - ALLONZEE


Re: Have any of you looked at the Integral System?

Brent Cameron
 

John Harries over at Morgan’s Cloud did a pretty good analysis of the issues surrounding this concept.  I don’t agree with everything John posts but he’s generally right and always puts a lot of thought into his articles.   After more than 5 years, I gave up my subscription to them this year for some reason so can’t go back and see the articles (he did a two or three part series on it) but the net of it was that it significantly reduced the redundancy in the system, didn’t really lower the cost, and put more stress on the one component you really need when you need it (your main engine).  I thought it was really well done and came away with the impression that while Nigel’s heart was in the right place, it was far too complicated to ever be retrofitted to an Amel and would take away a lot of the benefits we already have on it given that we already have much of the redundancies in place already.  Perhaps one of the existing subscribers to Morgan’s Cloud could do a better synopsis….   

Net is there is no such thing as a free lunch - going to 48V doesn’t reduce the load on the system as P=VI.  This system says it can run 8.3KW.  That’s a hell of a lot of a load to hang off a belt driven pulley that imposes significant side loading on the crankshaft.  The Onan generators on Amel’s certainly don’t try that.  They have all of the thrust mounted shaft to shaft longitudinally like your C-Drive  - AND they still recommend replacing the thrust bearings on a regular basis as noted in a recent post..

Here’s the teaser on it.  https://www.morganscloud.com/2019/02/13/nigel-calders-generator-replacement-machine-part-1-what-you-need-to-know/

Brent

On Feb 17, 2021, 11:15 AM -0500, Justin Maguire <justin_maguire@...>, wrote:
All - 

in our collective efforts to be more off-grid, and to simplify our already complex boats the Integral System (introduced to me by Matt Salatino) seems interesting /  promising albeit expensive. Following the conversation around lithium from you all over the last month has made me realize the number of nuances around this newer tech that i really need to "go to school" on :) 

Anyway.. i'm curious if any of you have looked at this and what your conclusions/thoughts are on it. Certainly having Nigel Calder back it bodes well. Not having a second engine to care for, combined with the premise that this will load the engine appropriately in ways that won't damage it even at idle is very cool... 

Cheers, 
-Justin  

--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Have any of you looked at the Integral System?

Justin Maguire
 

All - 

in our collective efforts to be more off-grid, and to simplify our already complex boats the Integral System (introduced to me by Matt Salatino) seems interesting /  promising albeit expensive. Following the conversation around lithium from you all over the last month has made me realize the number of nuances around this newer tech that i really need to "go to school" on :) 

Anyway.. i'm curious if any of you have looked at this and what your conclusions/thoughts are on it. Certainly having Nigel Calder back it bodes well. Not having a second engine to care for, combined with the premise that this will load the engine appropriately in ways that won't damage it even at idle is very cool... 

Cheers, 
-Justin  


Re: Multiplexer Wi-Fi

Rink De Haan
 

Hi Bill,

 

I am interested in your on line service Amel Book, but it looks like the PayPal environment is only a sandbox/test environment.

Is the service already available?

 

Many thanks,

Rink

 

Van: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> namens CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Datum: dinsdag, 16 februari 2021 om 16:30
Aan: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Onderwerp: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Multiplexer Wi-Fi

Jose,

 

 

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 9:20 AM JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:

Perfect Bill!

You saved my life again! :)

thanks

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


Re: Alternator charging a Lithium bank

Scott SV Tengah
 

Dominique:

See https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/50689

I banged my head against the engine room firewall for over a year until I had a very smart non-marine engineer help me implement that solution. I've run it for over a year now and it works perfectly.

That will solve your problem. 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Alternator charging a Lithium bank

Scott SV Tengah
 

Hi Doug,

Seems you read what I wrote but it didn't provide the answers you needed? Probably the result of someone who studied economics trying to explain something way out of his pay grade. :)

I'll try to answer your questions, though.

- As Dean alluded to, you do not want to base your alternator charging cutoff on battery bank level voltages. Your Victron chargers, interfaced to your Victron BMS will do that automatically. The Quattro does it through ethernet but my Skylla-i 24/80 needed an interface wire, which of course Victron sells. I have seen my Victron BMS, which monitors cell level voltage, cut off charging while the bank voltages and my BMV-712 (which I think is a coulomb counter?) showed it was not even 90% SOC and the bank level voltage seemed fine at around 28.0v. The voltage spike on the one problematic cell was hidden by the other (4x6-1=23) cells that were not spiking.  As an aside, this imbalance occurred because I didn't charge to 100% for a few months and small cell imbalances started accumulating. That was resolved with few hours at 100% with solar and a temporarily extended (4 hr) absorption time, which allowed the batteries to self-balance at a cell level.

I cannot remember exactly where I set the alternator absorption voltage to, but I recall it being somewhere around 27.4v on the Alpha Pro II. This makes it such that my lithium batteries are never fully charged by the alternator, but I'm ok with that, especially when I find myself unhappily motoring for 24 hours in the doldrums! The 27.4v usually represents anywhere from 80-92% bank SOC - again a reminder that you can't rely on voltage to represent SOC on lithium.

I assume you wanted to install the Cyrix relay to abruptly disconnect the alternator from the battery bank if the BMS detects a cell overvolt/overtemp condition? I would not suggest that as it could damage the alternator. Maybe not, but why take the risk when you can simply use the Ve.BUS BMS "charge disconnect" wire to control the relays as I suggested in this post:
https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/50689

As Dominique stated, the Victron BMS cannot power a normal Hella relay. I tried many times and had senior techs at Victron helping me, but it simply didn't have enough power to do so.  That's why I had to put in a much lower draw solid state relay in combination with Hella relays. See the post I linked for details. It has worked perfectly for 10,000nm over a year of full time cruising since I installed that alternator cutoff system. A real engineer, who built a well known company hacking into car ECU and control systems helped me implement it, so that should give you more confidence that it works. :) The low absorption voltage is an additional protection in case one of those relays fail.

- How do you intend to have your Victron BMS control your Mastervolt battery chargers? I don't have MV chargers, so can't provide advice, but you need to make sure the MV chargers stop charging when the BMS detects a problem. 

- Clarification: the 24v alternator is a Mastervolt too, not a Volvo charger. The Volvo charger (Bosch, really) is the 12v charger and doesn't have anything to do with my lifepo4 system. Get the alt temp sensor and install it on the MV. I have never seen my alternator taper charging current due to alternator overtemp, even when it charged the bank from 30%-90% SOC. That's roughly 3.5 hours at full output on my system. But you can never be too safe if you're in the middle of the Pacific without a MV dealer nearby.

- I did not install the Cerbo, Touch GX or the DMC. I found that I could replicate most of their functions without the additional complication and parasitic power draw of those devices. It's cool stuff for sure, but there is a draw and it's simply more components to fail. 

- Make sure you can turn off your Quattro inverter easily. I think Victron says it draws 30w at idle, but I am seeing more like 45-50w. That's almost 50amps a day of parasitic loss if you kept your inverter on 24/7, equivalent to the power output of a 250w solar panel, more or less! We have a simple switch (see post linked above) that we turn on right when we use it and off when we're done. 

- I use the BMV-712 right now to keep the batteries from being kept at a high SOC by the solar, per the solution I detailed on my previous post. We are sadly away from Tengah for 3 months due to visa issues but the boat watcher tells me the batteries cycle between 65%-85% range as I intended. The bonus is that the dehumidifier I am using to burn off excess solar energy is keeping the boat dry inside. For this possible use and also the reasons mentioned above, I wouldn't use this BMV-712 programmable relay to control your alternator.

Hope this helps clarify things a bit. 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Alternator charging a Lithium bank

Dean Gillies
 

Dominique,
I am considering a hybrid 24V system using lead acid and lithium, but without the Cyrix Li CT.
I wonder if you could elaborate a little on the disadvantages you mention?
many thanks
Dean
SY Stella
A54-154


Re: Alternator charging a Lithium bank

Dean Gillies
 

Hello Doug,
Good points above from the other members.

I would not recommend the use of any alternator cut-off mechanism that is not based upon direct cell-level monitoring.  You must ensure that the alternator ceases charging before the BMS disconnects due to a cell over-voltage.  This is not guaranteed to happen if you only monitor the battery (24V) voltage to control the alternator.

If you planning on using the Victron Lithium batteries and BMS then I think Scott has a solution. Scott?

Dean
SV Stella
A54-154

 

 


Re: Climma Air Conditioning from shore power

 

Thanks, Peter.

As expected, proof that the Ground Fault cause was seawater intrusion into the Calpeda Motor Stator as a result of a mechanical seal failure in the pump housing coupled with a missing Slinger Washer.

The good news is that the pump lasted more than 20 years. I believe if the Slinger Washer had been on the shaft that you would have noticed the leak from the mechanical seal early enough to own that pump for another 20 years. Calpeda makes a great pump.

Bill


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 3:08 PM Peter de Groot <pandmdegroot@...> wrote:

Here’s the conclusion
Thanks all for your help and suggestions
Saludos
Peter
La Querida SM 207
Barra de Navidad, Mexico





1361 - 1380 of 57941