Date   

Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Gary,
Yes, the reply Alan got from Dessaltator sounds very much like the reply I got from Alden Barbour that you can only use sea water to cool your refrig. At least they were straightforward enough to say that's because of the remote possibility of the freon line breaking into your water tank and you might sue them, not for any engineering reason.

The U-Tube link you gave in your post is the one I noted earlier of Rich Boren of Cruise RO saying there's no problem running your watermaker in fresh water, just keep the pressure down. So, he says, go ahead and sail the brackish Chesapeake or fresh Great Lakes and clean with fresh. Combine that with the Filmtec letter saying no problem and it's pretty clear Dessalator is simply in PYA mode. 

It would be interesting to see if Filmtec would supply an explanation of any technical difference in their membranes designated for salt/brackish/fresh water membranes? It sounds like marketing, not engineering, or, possibly, the BW and FW membranes are engineered such that they will pass salts but not bacteria so one could use  the SW in BW or FW but not vice versa, but I'm just guessing on that. 

Cheers, Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <gary@...> wrote :

I find that reply from Dessalator quite intriguing.  I cannot speak to that statement exactly, because my watermaker was 'hybridized' some time ago and is not purely Dessalator any more but here is one possibility why they (Dessalator) would be so adamant about fresh water usage. 

Even though the the membrane(s) are fine pushing low volumes of fresh water through them when rinsing or even when doing the "double-RO" function, it is not what they were designed for.  The membranes from Filmetch come in specific version for salt water, brackish water and fresh water.  The one I have installed is definitely bred for saltwater (Model SW30-2540).  The SW actually stands for Sea Water.  There are BW (Brackish Water, TW (freshwater or Tap Water) and a couple of others I think (a nano-filter and a low energy usage membrane). 

At any rate, the SW30-2540 membrane is indeed technically designed for Sea Water so I get where Dessalator is coming from.  However, talking with two different water maker experts (Cruise RO and Dessalator Malta) and coupled with my own experience I will say that testing and backflushing with filtered fresh water, even running the high pressure pump to provide a testable water sample would not cause harm. As mentioned, don't let the flow go high, as fresh water will pass cleanly through the membrane at much lower pressure). 

I would not, however, use the watermaker in fresh or brackish water for the long term without swapping to a purpose-designed membrane for it. 

Here's a brief video on the subject.  ... https://youtu.be/Ht2B3lpFbdQ 


There you have an "official" 2 cents worth :)

Gary W.
s/v Adagio
Malta



Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Gary Wells
 

I find that reply from Dessalator quite intriguing.  I cannot speak to that statement exactly, because my watermaker was 'hybridized' some time ago and is not purely Dessalator any more but here is one possibility why they (Dessalator) would be so adamant about fresh water usage. 

Even though the the membrane(s) are fine pushing low volumes of fresh water through them when rinsing or even when doing the "double-RO" function, it is not what they were designed for.  The membranes from Filmetch come in specific version for salt water, brackish water and fresh water.  The one I have installed is definitely bred for saltwater (Model SW30-2540).  The SW actually stands for Sea Water.  There are BW (Brackish Water, TW (freshwater or Tap Water) and a couple of others I think (a nano-filter and a low energy usage membrane). 

At any rate, the SW30-2540 membrane is indeed technically designed for Sea Water so I get where Dessalator is coming from.  However, talking with two different water maker experts (Cruise RO and Dessalator Malta) and coupled with my own experience I will say that testing and backflushing with filtered fresh water, even running the high pressure pump to provide a testable water sample would not cause harm. As mentioned, don't let the flow go high, as fresh water will pass cleanly through the membrane at much lower pressure). 

I would not, however, use the watermaker in fresh or brackish water for the long term without swapping to a purpose-designed membrane for it. 

Here's a brief video on the subject.  ... https://youtu.be/Ht2B3lpFbdQ 


There you have an "official" 2 cents worth :)

Gary W.
s/v Adagio
Malta



Engine fuel filters

eric freedman
 

Thanks to Ian Jenkins, I had Amel install a third fuel filter on Kimberlite when it was built.

When fuel goes into the tank , it is first pumped through a huge racor filter similar to that which you find on a fuel pump.  After that filter  I have always used a 2 micron filter before it enters the third filter on the engine.

At full rpm’s I see no increase on the vacuum gauge on my racor filter. I have been running this setup for 6400 engine hours so far.

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 9:15 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Long block failure on a Volvo D3-110 Amel 54-152

 

 

Hi All,

   with our TAMD22 we ran a 2 micon Racor without issue.    

 

                  John

SV Annie SM #37

Le Marin  

 

 

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 4:42 AM Rudolf Waldispuehl Rudolf@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thomas and Bill 

Good points. I’m still learning to handle a modern Diesel Engine. 

 

Maybe it is better to go for 1-2 micron Racor filter instead of the recommended 10 micron in order to filter out as much as possible. Or does the Engine suffer from the reduced flow rate?

 

Cheers

Ruedi 

Ruedi & Sabina Waldispuehl

"SY WASABI“, Amel 54. #55

Korfu

 

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Mittwoch, 22. August 2018 um 21:24
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Long block failure on a Volvo D3-110 Amel 54-152

 

 

 

That’s a great article, Bill, thanks for sharing. 

 

It’s good to see Nigel opening the debate about what needs to happen to adress the issues of modern engines in marine environments. It seems to point towards fuel quality. The corollary being inadaquate onboard filtering. 

I wonder what it means for fuel additives and their adequacy for our problems. Naively I would think that any product that dissolves contaminants simply makes them smaller so potentially riskier for high pressure common rail injectors (ie pass through filters but still too big for injectors)? 

 

Another topic is the established advice that a diesel engine enjoys being run at 80%, and failing that, at least push it hard from time to time. How much of this is still relevant to modern engines with better fuel efficiency (so less residue at low regime I presume) and variable geometry turbos?

 

I don’t have the first clue about those questions but i would like to understand what bits of the marine diesel knowledge base apply to our modern engines. 

 

 

Best,

 

 

Thomas

soon back onboard 

GARULFO

A54-122

Curaçao

 

 

 

On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 at 04:07, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

There was a good article on the worrisome trend in the design of small marine diesels in Yachting Monthly last year. 

 

 

I am beginning to wonder if we have almost seen the end of diesels that reliably run for more than 10,000 hours.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

eric freedman
 

Hi Alan,

Thanks

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 5:23 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

 

 

Hi Eric,

 

In New Zealand..I posted a reply about that..it's available in Sweden also it seems...probably, certainly made in China , it should be available everywhere...and yes, it is a great seat, very comfortable...sitting on it right now !!

 

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437  


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Alan Leslie
 

This is what we have and everyone finds it quite comfortable.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Alan Leslie
 

We don't have any of that stuff either...we have the dummies version. Our manual is extremely simple.

It would be very interesting to see.

I emailed Dessalator to ask them about this fresh water business and this is their reply:

Dear Sir,

 

As I said before, our water makers are made for sea water, no fresh water, and even less Brackish water.

 

I don’t know what Filmtec says but I can assure you that if you use your Dessalator in Fresh or Brackish water, you will damage your membranes.

 

With our best regards,

 

Nicolas Bouffartigue

Secretary Dessalator

 

http://www.dessalator.fr/

tel : +33 (0)4 93 95 04 55

 

De : Yacht Elyse [mailto:S.V.Elyse@...]
Envoyé : vendredi 24 août 2018 12:09
À : Dessalator
Objet : RE: Dessalator "Fresh water"

 

Thank you for your reply....

 

But the membranes are made by Filmtec, yes?

 

And they say that they can be used in Brackish water, and even in series to RO the RO water to produce ultrapure water

 

So, I don’t understand what the issue is with “fresh” water.....

 

Thanks

 

Best regards

 

Alan




So they assume we are all stupid !


Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Kaplan,Andre
 

Thanks Mark
Will look forward to any info you get
Andre


On Aug 24, 2018, at 1:59 PM, mfmcgovern@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Alan's nav station seat appears to be manufactured in China by a company called Eastsun Marine:  http://www.eastsunmarine.com/eastsun/EnProductShow.asp?ID=152


I could not find it for sale anywhere except for where Alan purchased it, Burnsco in New Zealand:  https://www.burnsco.co.nz/shop/boating/seating-carpet-covers/seating/deluxe-flip-back-seat

I sent the company an email to see if they would ship to the USA, and if so, how much.  I will let you know if I hear back from them.

Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Patrick McAneny
 

Danny, I really can't see where the such a seat would be unsafe , I am just concerned and want to be assured,that there would be zero movement. That would bother me. The pedestal is thru bolted with six 5/16 s.s. into a s.s.1/4" x 10"'x 10' backing plate. Years ago, I had welded an extension onto the back to give back support up higher and fabricated armrest , all which greatly improved the original seat , but its still not what I would call comfortable. I like to sit at the helm most of the time to monitor things. No decision yet, and I may try to make further improvements to what I have. I guess its a sign of age ,when comfort becomes a little more important.
Pat
SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Fri, Aug 24, 2018 3:41 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

 
I understand where you are coming from Pat. So long as you go into it with your eyes open. I have often thought of getting molded padding  bottom sides and back while retaining the stability and grab bars. Just never got uncomfortable enough to make it a priority
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean pearl
On 24 August 2018 at 12:21 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Danny, All good points and I don't disagree that safety comes first , before all else.. The seat I am considering would have s.s handholds and  it would not be free to swivel . A prior owner just emailed me and told me his seat was rock solid ,held him snugly in the seat and he felt safer than with his old seat in ext reme conditions. We just came off the boat and remembered  one reason I always thought I would like something different. The seat is a little high for me, I would like it about 2 or 3 inches lower. In the past I had thought about cutting a couple of inches off the bottom and re glassing the foot back in. You have a newer design and I am sure its more comfortable than mine . This thread has run long enough, I was hoping to hear from anyone that has replaced the helm seat, two so far and both positive. I will probably seek out other sources to determine how solid and secure they, are and will not make a change unless I am sure .
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyac htowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Aug 23, 2018 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

 
 
Hi Pat,
I regard the SM helm seat as a great design and a vital safety item. I have a lot of ocean miles behind me and in the vigorous seaways we encounter out there its fixed place stability is a huge safety factor. I would never have a swiveling seat. In big rough seas, oh boy. Likewise, even more so the tube up the sides and across the back. When you are moving around the cockpit in rough conditions it is a fantastic "grab when I'm off balance" hand hold. Moving around the cockpit in a seaway I am using that hand hold all the time. Bad accidents on yachts at sea are often caused by falls.As we age our bones become brittle and our balance less. Henri gave us hand holds every where for good reason. Swiveling padded comfort seats are for the marina and harbour set. Not for serious off shore.
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 24 August 2018 at 01:19 "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
 
Pat,

You know what I am going to say...yada, yada, don't change it because...yada, yada.

But, FYI, Judy and I sat in that seat in a cyclone in the middle of the IO. It is perfect! Don't change it.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be con strued as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system  referred to  above..


On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 8:01 AM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Pat,

The concern I’d have about sitting in a typical pede stal seat is not rough seas, but rather heeling. There are many very comfortable helm seat built for high end motor yachts, but they all assume that the boat is basically flat. I have not yet seen a pedestal seat I’d want to sit in when heeled at 15 degrees.

The other issue around a pedestal is structural. The deck in that area might need strengthening to support a single point of attachment of a pedestal.. Note for example, the way the nav station seat pedestal is built into the boat.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA
 
 
 

 

 
 
 
 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Mark Erdos
 

Bill,

 

Would you be so kind as to upload the graphs and instruction manual you have. My manual did not include this stuff and has little info on preserving membranes. If you could put it in the Amel files section, this would be great. Thanks!

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 4:50 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

 

 

Our Dessalitor was installed in 1996, and has a gauge only marked in PSI and Bar--no red/green zones. Also, unlike later models installed on Amels it also has an actual. real, working product water conductivity sensor--not a dumb timer.  

 

The instruction manual carefully explains the complex relationship between pressure, flow rate of product water, and the temperature and salinity of the feed water.  They present graphs so you can pick a pressure and product flow rate to optimize product quality and membrane life.

 

This was also before they decided that cleaning and pickling chemicals could be a profit center, and they gave instructions for cleaning and pickling the membranes with actual chemical names, not Dessalitor part numbers.

 

Apparently it was sometime after that when Dessalitor assumed their customers no longer could read and think...

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

greatketch@...
 

Our Dessalitor was installed in 1996, and has a gauge only marked in PSI and Bar--no red/green zones. Also, unlike later models installed on Amels it also has an actual. real, working product water conductivity sensor--not a dumb timer.  

The instruction manual carefully explains the complex relationship between pressure, flow rate of product water, and the temperature and salinity of the feed water.  They present graphs so you can pick a pressure and product flow rate to optimize product quality and membrane life.

This was also before they decided that cleaning and pickling chemicals could be a profit center, and they gave instructions for cleaning and pickling the membranes with actual chemical names, not Dessalitor part numbers.

Apparently it was sometime after that when Dessalitor assumed their customers no longer could read and think...

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Micron 66 Caribbean experience

greatketch@...
 


Dan & Lori,

We use a similar ablative paint, and put on two coats every haul out. In the Caribbean 24 months is pushing it, but it you clean regularly it works.  With ablative paints be sure to clean gently, you do not want to be scrubbing off the paint!

An extra coat within a foot of the waterline, the bow, and the leading edge of the keel, and rudder also help.

I have had excellent experience with Micron66 in the colder waters of San Francisco Bay on my old boat.  We have avoided using it on Harmonie because we regularly end up going places with relatively fresh water (e.g., Florida Rivers, and the upper Chesapeake).  Micron 66 fails in very short order in freshwater. 

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA




---In amelyachtowners@..., <mcerdos@...> wrote :

Dan,

 

I slap a couple of coats on whenever I haul. The Micron 66 is ablative and is going to flake off as it is designed to do. Last summer in Grenada, we put three coats on. It had been two and half year since the last haul and the bottom paint was thin.  When we hauled in Curacao (unexpectedly) a couple of months ago, we had them put two coats on after a light sand. We have no issues with growth or barnacles.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 10:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Micron 66 Caribbean experience

 

 

Hello Amel owners,  I know from discussions that many of you use Micron 66 bottom paint in the Caribbean. I'm looking for responses from those with specific experience.  I put 2 coats on the bottom of my boat in Nov of 2017 and sailed the eastern Caribbean for 7 months. We hauled in Curacao last June (the bottom was very clean). We go back in November to sail the western Caribbean for the next 7 months with plans to haul again in June of 2019.  Question for those who have done something similar. Do you just scuff the boat and relaunch and only paint every other year? Or do you put a fresh coat on each year while the boat is out and dry? Looking for boaters with actual experience with this scenario.  As an added note, when the water is clean I regularly go for a swim with a scrubber to keep the bottom clean.  I have the idea that we may be in more places in the western Caribben where I might not want to do that as often.  

 

Thanks, Dan and Lori Carlson, SM387, sv BeBe


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Danny,
Kinda figured as much (would be odd without). So cranking the high pressure into the green zone and blowing the membrane when the boat is in fresh water is unlikely, assuming one monitors the product flow tube, which I would guess the Dessalator instructions call for.
Cheers, Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <simms@...> wrote :

Hi Craig, My Duo 60 has a clear tube graduated to show product flow.

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Craig, My Duo 60 has a clear tube graduated to show product flow.

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 25 August 2018 at 04:54 "sangaris@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Bill,

Not sure that's "another" perspective, but one certainly can't blame any manufacturer for making things "idiot proof" or "child proof", although that can be a turnoff for customers who are neither. 

My watermaker has a high pressure gauge marked in bars and psi plus a product water flow gauge (clear tube thingy with ball float and graduations marked for lpm and gph), Crank up the pressure until the product flow is 20 gph and check the hi pressure for fine tuning. Does the Dessalator not have a product water flow gauge?  Ah, those Frenchies!

Cheers, Craig SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig,

Here is another prospective...I am not sure which is right.

I was in manufacturing for many years. All manufactures have to be very careful that their products are not misused because the umbrella generation will sue when something goes wrong that they were "allowed" to do. 

The Dessalator system has a "green" zone for the high pressure setting, which makes it simple and easy to use for half of users that do not know what they do not know. Probably, what many of us would like to see is BAR at specific salinity and temperature...BUT, Dessalator knows that they have to design something for the simple-minded user. Therefore, since they are basically forced to make the watermaker "child proof" we have the green zone on the HP gauge. And, since we have the green zone, a non-expert could and probably would over-pressurize for fresh or brackish water, which will cause issues.

I used the term "child proof" with the product development folks that reported to me. I would always ask if the new product was child proof and for their explanation...they knew what I meant.

Best,

Bill Rouse

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 9:39 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Alan,


You should be able to find CruiseRO Water and Power on the internet.  Try this link.
He very effectively clears up the no-fresh-water myth and also gives the technical explanation of how fresh water at high pressure will destroy a membrane.

The Filmtec notes you quote are pretty clear that fresh (or brackish) water is no problem.

The Dessalator warning is clearly one of those cover-your-ass disclaimers to prevent customer complaints and claims like the one discussed here recently from Alden Barbour warning against using tank water to cool the refrigerant. That was because of the remote possibility the line might rupture in the tank and contaminate the drinking water and kill you when you drink it, or the user might let the tank water run low and have inadequate cooling and complain on some cruisers' forum and give Alden Barbour a bad name.

Sure, you can, indeed, blow out your RO membrane if you run it with fresh feed water at high pressure. 
Uh, don't do that.

Cheers,
Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <divanz620@...> wrote :

I'm now not so sure about this fresh water business.


In the Dessalator Duo 60 manual  it says:

Remember: The biggest enemy of the membranes is fresh water.

Fresh water should be always used with no pressure when going through the system
(pressure dial turned all the way anti clockwise) and the system should always run with no
pressure after a fresh water flush to dump all the fresh water that are in it, before making
freshwater from sea water (also with the pressure dial all the way anti clockwise).
When running the watermaker with the dial all the way anti clockwise, it will shut it self
down automatically after 1 minute. Only then, the watermaker is ready for use.


I have the Filmtec Membrane Technical Manual and I can find no discussion of this at all anywhere.

In fact a number of systems are illustrated that
1. Treat Brackish water
2. RO the RO water (double RO) to make ultrapure water.

So I don;t know where this freshwater enemy story comes from......nothing on a Google search.

If it really was a problem I would think Filmtec would warn about it.

Alan
Elyse SM437


 

 


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Micron 66 Caribbean experience

John Clark
 

I certainly hope Micron 66 is OK as we have 7 gallons onboard for our upcoming haulout.  Boat has 2 year old ablative already.  My intention is like Mark to have a light sanding then two coats of 66.  Will let you know how it works out over next two years. 

                   John
John Clark
SV Annie SM #37
Le Marin

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 3:11 PM 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dan,

 

I slap a couple of coats on whenever I haul. The Micron 66 is ablative and is going to flake off as it is designed to do. Last summer in Grenada, we put three coats on. It had been two and half year since the last haul and the bottom paint was thin.  When we hauled in Curacao (unexpectedly) a couple of months ago, we had them put two coats on after a light sand. We have no issues with growth or barnacles.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 10:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Micron 66 Caribbean experience

 

 

Hello Amel owners,  I know from discussions that many of you use Micron 66 bottom paint in the Caribbean. I'm looking for responses from those with specific experience.  I put 2 coats on the bottom of my boat in Nov of 2017 and sailed the eastern Caribbean for 7 months. We hauled in Curacao last June (the bottom was very clean). We go back in November to sail the western Caribbean for the next 7 months with plans to haul again in June of 2019.  Question for those who have done something similar. Do you just scuff the boat and relaunch and only paint every other year? Or do you put a fresh coat on each year while the boat is out and dry? Looking for boaters with actual experience with this scenario.  As an added note, when the water is clean I regularly go for a swim with a scrubber to keep the bottom clean.  I have the idea that we may be in more places in the western Caribben where I might not want to do that as often.  

 

Thanks, Dan and Lori Carlson, SM387, sv BeBe


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Long block failure on a Volvo D3-110 Amel 54-152 [1 Attachment]

John Clark
 

Hi Porter, that was the size the previous owners used.  Changed annually(according to the logs) for the 16 yrs they owned the vessel.  The racor I have is rated for gallons per minute, not sure the number but much more than our sailboat engines will ever consume.  

The filter on the motor(s) looked very old from the outside and were also 2 micron.  I don't think they were changed like the racor.  The inside of the motor filters looked clean and new. 

           John 

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 1:39 PM Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from Porter McRoberts included below]

For how long John?  

I am thinking a double double racor would be the way to go. 
What’s the internal rail diameter on these engines? Should not the last filter be smaller that the rail?

New long block in as we speak. 

Thank you everyone for all the help. 





Porter 
Ibis A54-110 
Panama City


Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 24, 2018, at 8:14 AM, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi All,
   with our TAMD22 we ran a 2 micon Racor without issue.    

                  John
SV Annie SM #37
Le Marin  


On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 4:42 AM Rudolf Waldispuehl Rudolf@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thomas and Bill 
Good points. I’m still learning to handle a modern Diesel Engine. 

Maybe it is better to go for 1-2 micron Racor filter instead of the recommended 10 micron in order to filter out as much as possible. Or does the Engine suffer from the reduced flow rate?

Cheers
Ruedi 
Ruedi & Sabina Waldispuehl
"SY WASABIAmel 54. #55
Korfu

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Mittwoch, 22. August 2018 um 21:24
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Long block failure on a Volvo D3-110 Amel 54-152

 


That’s a great article, Bill, thanks for sharing. 

It’s good to see Nigel opening the debate about what needs to happen to adress the issues of modern engines in marine environments. It seems to point towards fuel quality. The corollary being inadaquate onboard filtering. 
I wonder what it means for fuel additives and their adequacy for our problems. Naively I would think that any product that dissolves contaminants simply makes them smaller so potentially riskier for high pressure common rail injectors (ie pass through filters but still too big for injectors)? 

Another topic is the established advice that a diesel engine enjoys being run at 80%, and failing that, at least push it hard from time to time. How much of this is still relevant to modern engines with better fuel efficiency (so less residue at low regime I presume) and variable geometry turbos?

I don’t have the first clue about those questions but i would like to understand what bits of the marine diesel knowledge base apply to our modern engines. 


Best,


Thomas
soon back onboard 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curaçao



On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 at 04:07, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

There was a good article on the worrisome trend in the design of small marine diesels in Yachting Monthly last year. 



I am beginning to wonder if we have almost seen the end of diesels that reliably run for more than 10,000 hours.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Micron 66 Caribbean experience

Mark Erdos
 

Dan,

 

I slap a couple of coats on whenever I haul. The Micron 66 is ablative and is going to flake off as it is designed to do. Last summer in Grenada, we put three coats on. It had been two and half year since the last haul and the bottom paint was thin.  When we hauled in Curacao (unexpectedly) a couple of months ago, we had them put two coats on after a light sand. We have no issues with growth or barnacles.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 10:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Micron 66 Caribbean experience

 

 

Hello Amel owners,  I know from discussions that many of you use Micron 66 bottom paint in the Caribbean. I'm looking for responses from those with specific experience.  I put 2 coats on the bottom of my boat in Nov of 2017 and sailed the eastern Caribbean for 7 months. We hauled in Curacao last June (the bottom was very clean). We go back in November to sail the western Caribbean for the next 7 months with plans to haul again in June of 2019.  Question for those who have done something similar. Do you just scuff the boat and relaunch and only paint every other year? Or do you put a fresh coat on each year while the boat is out and dry? Looking for boaters with actual experience with this scenario.  As an added note, when the water is clean I regularly go for a swim with a scrubber to keep the bottom clean.  I have the idea that we may be in more places in the western Caribben where I might not want to do that as often.  

 

Thanks, Dan and Lori Carlson, SM387, sv BeBe


Re: Nigel Calder & Aric Euler at the SSCA Annapolis GAM

Mike Ondra
 

I am interested in attending this event on Sunday in advance of the Rendezvous in St. Michaels. Anyone Else?
 Logistically the Maryland YC is across the Bay from Rock Hall in Pasadena, MD and about 40nm from St. Michaels. Since Aletes in in Rock Hall (about 10 nm from Pasadena) I plan to sail over to Pasadena Saturday afternoon/evening, attend the events on Sunday, and sail on to St. Michaels on Monday. If anyone is interested in hitchhiking let me know.
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM#240
Rock Hall, MD


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

 

Craig,

Yes, Dessalator has a flow gauge and a pressure gauge. The pressure gauge on all since about 1990 only has a "green zone" without any indication of actual pressure.

I believe that Dessalator's intention is to make it very simple for the least informed of their customers, and to include instructions, which if followed, cannot harm the system. Frankly, I would do the same if I were them.

I have had a difficult time becoming accustomed with a society that has to seek out others to blame for personal mistakes. The good news is I have much less time to deal with that, than I have spent dealing with it. I am definitely on the downhill side.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system referred to above.


On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 11:55 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill,

Not sure that's "another" perspective, but one certainly can't blame any manufacturer for making things "idiot proof" or "child proof", although that can be a turnoff for customers who are neither. 

My watermaker has a high pressure gauge marked in bars and psi plus a product water flow gauge (clear tube thingy with ball float and graduations marked for lpm and gph), Crank up the pressure until the product flow is 20 gph and check the hi pressure for fine tuning. Does the Dessalator not have a product water flow gauge?  Ah, those Frenchies!

Cheers, Craig SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig,

Here is another prospective...I am not sure which is right.

I was in manufacturing for many years. All manufactures have to be very careful that their products are not misused because the umbrella generation will sue when something goes wrong that they were "allowed" to do. 

The Dessalator system has a "green" zone for the high pressure setting, which makes it simple and easy to use for half of users that do not know what they do not know. Probably, what many of us would like to see is BAR at specific salinity and temperature...BUT, Dessalator knows that they have to design something for the simple-minded user. Therefore, since they are basically forced to make the watermaker "child proof" we have the green zone on the HP gauge. And, since we have the green zone, a non-expert could and probably would over-pressurize for fresh or brackish water, which will cause issues.

I used the term "child proof" with the product development folks that reported to me. I would always ask if the new product was child proof and for their explanation...they knew what I meant.

Best,

Bill Rouse

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 9:39 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Alan,


You should be able to find CruiseRO Water and Power on the internet.  Try this link.
He very effectively clears up the no-fresh-water myth and also gives the technical explanation of how fresh water at high pressure will destroy a membrane.

The Filmtec notes you quote are pretty clear that fresh (or brackish) water is no problem.

The Dessalator warning is clearly one of those cover-your-ass disclaimers to prevent customer complaints and claims like the one discussed here recently from Alden Barbour warning against using tank water to cool the refrigerant. That was because of the remote possibility the line might rupture in the tank and contaminate the drinking water and kill you when you drink it, or the user might let the tank water run low and have inadequate cooling and complain on some cruisers' forum and give Alden Barbour a bad name.

Sure, you can, indeed, blow out your RO membrane if you run it with fresh feed water at high pressure. 
Uh, don't do that.

Cheers,
Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@...,
I'm now not so sure about this fresh water business.


In the Dessalator Duo 60 manual  it says:

Remember: The biggest enemy of the membranes is fresh water.

Fresh water should be always used with no pressure when going through the system
(pressure dial turned all the way anti clockwise) and the system should always run with no
pressure after a fresh water flush to dump all the fresh water that are in it, before making
freshwater from sea water (also with the pressure dial all the way anti clockwise).
When running the watermaker with the dial all the way anti clockwise, it will shut it self
down automatically after 1 minute. Only then, the watermaker is ready for use.


I have the Filmtec Membrane Technical Manual and I can find no discussion of this at all anywhere.

In fact a number of systems are illustrated that
1. Treat Brackish water
2. RO the RO water (double RO) to make ultrapure water.

So I don;t know where this freshwater enemy story comes from......nothing on a Google search.

If it really was a problem I would think Filmtec would warn about it.

Alan
Elyse SM437



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Bill,
Not sure that's "another" perspective, but one certainly can't blame any manufacturer for making things "idiot proof" or "child proof", although that can be a turnoff for customers who are neither. 

My watermaker has a high pressure gauge marked in bars and psi plus a product water flow gauge (clear tube thingy with ball float and graduations marked for lpm and gph), Crank up the pressure until the product flow is 20 gph and check the hi pressure for fine tuning. Does the Dessalator not have a product water flow gauge?  Ah, those Frenchies!

Cheers, Craig SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig,

Here is another prospective...I am not sure which is right.

I was in manufacturing for many years. All manufactures have to be very careful that their products are not misused because the umbrella generation will sue when something goes wrong that they were "allowed" to do. 

The Dessalator system has a "green" zone for the high pressure setting, which makes it simple and easy to use for half of users that do not know what they do not know. Probably, what many of us would like to see is BAR at specific salinity and temperature...BUT, Dessalator knows that they have to design something for the simple-minded user. Therefore, since they are basically forced to make the watermaker "child proof" we have the green zone on the HP gauge. And, since we have the green zone, a non-expert could and probably would over-pressurize for fresh or brackish water, which will cause issues.

I used the term "child proof" with the product development folks that reported to me. I would always ask if the new product was child proof and for their explanation...they knew what I meant.

Best,

Bill Rouse

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 9:39 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Alan,


You should be able to find CruiseRO Water and Power on the internet.  Try this link.
He very effectively clears up the no-fresh-water myth and also gives the technical explanation of how fresh water at high pressure will destroy a membrane.

The Filmtec notes you quote are pretty clear that fresh (or brackish) water is no problem.

The Dessalator warning is clearly one of those cover-your-ass disclaimers to prevent customer complaints and claims like the one discussed here recently from Alden Barbour warning against using tank water to cool the refrigerant. That was because of the remote possibility the line might rupture in the tank and contaminate the drinking water and kill you when you drink it, or the user might let the tank water run low and have inadequate cooling and complain on some cruisers' forum and give Alden Barbour a bad name.

Sure, you can, indeed, blow out your RO membrane if you run it with fresh feed water at high pressure. 
Uh, don't do that.

Cheers,
Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <divanz620@...> wrote :

I'm now not so sure about this fresh water business.


In the Dessalator Duo 60 manual  it says:

Remember: The biggest enemy of the membranes is fresh water.

Fresh water should be always used with no pressure when going through the system
(pressure dial turned all the way anti clockwise) and the system should always run with no
pressure after a fresh water flush to dump all the fresh water that are in it, before making
freshwater from sea water (also with the pressure dial all the way anti clockwise).
When running the watermaker with the dial all the way anti clockwise, it will shut it self
down automatically after 1 minute. Only then, the watermaker is ready for use.


I have the Filmtec Membrane Technical Manual and I can find no discussion of this at all anywhere.

In fact a number of systems are illustrated that
1. Treat Brackish water
2. RO the RO water (double RO) to make ultrapure water.

So I don;t know where this freshwater enemy story comes from......nothing on a Google search.

If it really was a problem I would think Filmtec would warn about it.

Alan
Elyse SM437



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Kaplan,Andre
 

Alan,
Seat looks real nice and would fit perfectly on my Mango... where did you get it?

Andre Kaplan
“Renaissance 2000”
Mango “7188”
Westbrook, CT


On Aug 23, 2018, at 4:16 PM, Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Greeting,

On my Santorin SN24 the pedestal seat is bolted in place and does not move. Even with cushions on the backrest and seat it is just hard enough to keep the crew from falling asleep on watch. Hence 90% of the time we just push the autopilot button and kickup our feet on the cockpit seats. Only had 1 crew who would ever sit there for hours pushing buttons to scroll thru the plotter, change light intensity, go to port 1 degree then strbd 3 degrees and try to calibrate the depth sounder in the gulf stream  

Ric Gottschalk

SN24 Bali Hai

Annapolis

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 2:59 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

 

 

The Santorin has a pedestal seat. Ours sits on the pedestal post (not bolted) and therefore does 2 handy things.
1. It can be lifted off at anchor and gives more cockpit space
2. It swivels, so that when heeled you can turn the seat so your back is always dead downhill.
No problems with the fitting, but the moulded base support does give it the strength required.

Ian ‘Ocean Hobo’ SN96