Date   
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Batteries

eric freedman
 

Bill,

Batteries are less expensive than a genset.

Thank You for the explanation.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:18 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Batteries

 

 

Eric,

 

Yes, that is the cost. Expensive.

 

They are very expensive, and as I wrote, NOT for everybody.  They only make sense if:

  • you can reduce the number of batteries you need based on the tolerance for a much deeper routine discharge without damage, or if;
  • the higher charge rate is important, or if;
  • tolerance for consistent operation at partial state of charge is economically important to your application.

If you look at battery technology, the cost per kilowatt-hour stored over the life span of the battery is pretty much a constant. That is not an accident, but I am sure the way the bean-counters price things. The very long forecast life of these batteries makes them very expensive in upfront cost. That the factory is running at capacity, and can barely keep up with demand, puts constant upward pressure on the price.

 

If your objective function is simply the time weighted cost of batteries, I doubt you can do better than the simplest flooded lead acid batteries. 

 

In my specific case, a potentially postponed genset replacement justified the higher battery cost. Even if the overall lifespan does not ultimately live up to the manufacturer's expectations, I expect to come out ahead.  That cost/benefit analysis is likely to be different for everyone.



So far, the reduced charging time has not only met, but well exceeded my expectations.  The lifespan of the batteries without regular recharging to "full" is something that can only wait for the passage of years to know if it will be what was promised.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Cape Eleuthera, Bahamas

 



---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

Hi Bill,

Congratulations on your long life aboard an Amel. !!

May I ask what you paid for the batteries. I went to the link you posted and it seems that they are over $400- US each.

Is that correct?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 1:32 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Batteries

 

 

Kent,

 

Just to throw a bit of extra information on the pile, here is my update for our batteries.

 

 

They aren't for everybody, but they seem to be doing what we asked of them above and beyond the standard choices.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Cape Eleuthera, Bahamas

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Batteries

karkauai
 

Very interesting Bill.  It will be interesting to see how long they last.  Can the Firefly’s be desulfated if they seem to be showing signs that all isn’t well?

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243

Kent,

Just to throw a bit of extra information on the pile, here is my update for our batteries.


They aren't for everybody, but they seem to be doing what we asked of them above and beyond the standard choices.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Cape Eleuthera, Bahamas

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Batteries

greatketch@...
 

Eric,

Yes, that is the cost. Expensive.

They are very expensive, and as I wrote, NOT for everybody.  They only make sense if:
  • you can reduce the number of batteries you need based on the tolerance for a much deeper routine discharge without damage, or if;
  • the higher charge rate is important, or if;
  • tolerance for consistent operation at partial state of charge is economically important to your application.
If you look at battery technology, the cost per kilowatt-hour stored over the life span of the battery is pretty much a constant. That is not an accident, but I am sure the way the bean-counters price things. The very long forecast life of these batteries makes them very expensive in upfront cost. That the factory is running at capacity, and can barely keep up with demand, puts constant upward pressure on the price.

If your objective function is simply the time weighted cost of batteries, I doubt you can do better than the simplest flooded lead acid batteries. 

In my specific case, a potentially postponed genset replacement justified the higher battery cost. Even if the overall lifespan does not ultimately live up to the manufacturer's expectations, I expect to come out ahead.  That cost/benefit analysis is likely to be different for everyone.

So far, the reduced charging time has not only met, but well exceeded my expectations.  The lifespan of the batteries without regular recharging to "full" is something that can only wait for the passage of years to know if it will be what was promised.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Cape Eleuthera, Bahamas



---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

Hi Bill,

Congratulations on your long life aboard an Amel. !!

May I ask what you paid for the batteries. I went to the link you posted and it seems that they are over $400- US each.

Is that correct?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 1:32 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Batteries

 

 

Kent,

 

Just to throw a bit of extra information on the pile, here is my update for our batteries.

 

 

They aren't for everybody, but they seem to be doing what we asked of them above and beyond the standard choices.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Cape Eleuthera, Bahamas

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

eric freedman
 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 7:11 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

 

 

I figured it out  please see photos of the spring and the brake pads.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 7:06 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

 

 

Hi,

I have photos of the brake pads from Kimberlite. How do I include photos in this text?

I know I can’t add them as an attachment.

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 6:41 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

 

 

Yes..."contacts the piston pin"

Its a standard hex head bolt

 

Maud does have pads, it was only that none of the ones she has look like ours...apparently there are three different types

 

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437



---In amelyachtowners@..., <no_reply@...> wrote :

Whoa. Interesting solution. Just to be clear (before I start drilling holes) when you said "where it contracts the piston pin"......you meant "contacts the piston pin", right ? What kind of head do you have on the M8 bolt ? Does it matter ?

 

I'm going to verify that Maud doesn't have the pads.......kind of surprising given that everyone will need to change the pads at some point.......but if they aren't easily obtained, I will follow your lead.

 

Thanks for the idea........this is exactly why I love this site.

 

Tom Kleman

SV L'ORIENT SM2K 422

Bonaire

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

eric freedman
 

I figured it out  please see photos of the spring and the brake pads.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 7:06 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

 

 

Hi,

I have photos of the brake pads from Kimberlite. How do I include photos in this text?

I know I can’t add them as an attachment.

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 6:41 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

 

 

Yes..."contacts the piston pin"

Its a standard hex head bolt

 

Maud does have pads, it was only that none of the ones she has look like ours...apparently there are three different types

 

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437



---In amelyachtowners@..., <no_reply@...> wrote :

Whoa. Interesting solution. Just to be clear (before I start drilling holes) when you said "where it contracts the piston pin"......you meant "contacts the piston pin", right ? What kind of head do you have on the M8 bolt ? Does it matter ?

 

I'm going to verify that Maud doesn't have the pads.......kind of surprising given that everyone will need to change the pads at some point.......but if they aren't easily obtained, I will follow your lead.

 

Thanks for the idea........this is exactly why I love this site.

 

Tom Kleman

SV L'ORIENT SM2K 422

Bonaire

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

eric freedman
 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 6:41 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

 

 

Yes..."contacts the piston pin"

Its a standard hex head bolt

 

Maud does have pads, it was only that none of the ones she has look like ours...apparently there are three different types

 

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437



---In amelyachtowners@..., <no_reply@...> wrote :

Whoa. Interesting solution. Just to be clear (before I start drilling holes) when you said "where it contracts the piston pin"......you meant "contacts the piston pin", right ? What kind of head do you have on the M8 bolt ? Does it matter ?

 

I'm going to verify that Maud doesn't have the pads.......kind of surprising given that everyone will need to change the pads at some point.......but if they aren't easily obtained, I will follow your lead.

 

Thanks for the idea........this is exactly why I love this site.

 

Tom Kleman

SV L'ORIENT SM2K 422

Bonaire

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

eric freedman
 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 6:41 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

 

 

Yes..."contacts the piston pin"

Its a standard hex head bolt

 

Maud does have pads, it was only that none of the ones she has look like ours...apparently there are three different types

 

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437



---In amelyachtowners@..., <no_reply@...> wrote :

Whoa. Interesting solution. Just to be clear (before I start drilling holes) when you said "where it contracts the piston pin"......you meant "contacts the piston pin", right ? What kind of head do you have on the M8 bolt ? Does it matter ?

 

I'm going to verify that Maud doesn't have the pads.......kind of surprising given that everyone will need to change the pads at some point.......but if they aren't easily obtained, I will follow your lead.

 

Thanks for the idea........this is exactly why I love this site.

 

Tom Kleman

SV L'ORIENT SM2K 422

Bonaire

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

eric freedman
 

Hi,

I have photos of the brake pads from Kimberlite. How do I include photos in this text?

I know I can’t add them as an attachment.

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 6:41 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

 

 

Yes..."contacts the piston pin"

Its a standard hex head bolt

 

Maud does have pads, it was only that none of the ones she has look like ours...apparently there are three different types

 

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437



---In amelyachtowners@..., <no_reply@...> wrote :

Whoa. Interesting solution. Just to be clear (before I start drilling holes) when you said "where it contracts the piston pin"......you meant "contacts the piston pin", right ? What kind of head do you have on the M8 bolt ? Does it matter ?

 

I'm going to verify that Maud doesn't have the pads.......kind of surprising given that everyone will need to change the pads at some point.......but if they aren't easily obtained, I will follow your lead.

 

Thanks for the idea........this is exactly why I love this site.

 

Tom Kleman

SV L'ORIENT SM2K 422

Bonaire

Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

Alan Leslie
 

Yes..."contacts the piston pin"
Its a standard hex head bolt

Maud does have pads, it was only that none of the ones she has look like ours...apparently there are three different types

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


---In amelyachtowners@..., <no_reply@...> wrote :

Whoa. Interesting solution. Just to be clear (before I start drilling holes) when you said "where it contracts the piston pin"......you meant "contacts the piston pin", right ? What kind of head do you have on the M8 bolt ? Does it matter ?

I'm going to verify that Maud doesn't have the pads.......kind of surprising given that everyone will need to change the pads at some point.......but if they aren't easily obtained, I will follow your lead.

Thanks for the idea........this is exactly why I love this site.

Tom Kleman
SV L'ORIENT SM2K 422
Bonaire

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Prop Shaft Brake Pads

eric freedman
 

Hi,

I had the same problem. At the time Amel did not have the brake pads. I had them  relined by a brake clutch relining shop.

I still had a problem. I received a new spring from Amel and it fixed the problem.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 2:38 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Prop Shaft Brake Pads

 

 

I own SM2K #422 (L'ORIENT). On the way from Grenada to Bonaire, I heard.....then noticed.... that my prop shaft brake was no longer holding the prop shaft. I was going faster than normal......8+ knots straight down wind with the Genoa and Balooner set.  I'm hoping this hasn't been going on a long time, but I think I would have noticed. Anyway, I cranked down the adjustment screw all the way in (it had been all the way out prior to this adjustment). I can still turn the prop by hand when the engine is off. I tested the brake cylinder and pin by turning on and off the engine and noting the position of the pin and clamps.......the pin comes out of the cylinder when the engine is off, and retracts when the engine is on. It doesn't seem to be leaking. I'm assuming I need brake pads.........I obviously can't tell how thick they should be because I don't have a new set to compare it to. Any thoughts ? I'm assuming this is an Amel sourced item.

 

Tom and Kirstin

SV L'ORIENT

Bonaire

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Batteries

eric freedman
 

Hi Bill,

Congratulations on your long life aboard an Amel. !!

May I ask what you paid for the batteries. I went to the link you posted and it seems that they are over $400- US each.

Is that correct?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 1:32 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Batteries

 

 

Kent,

 

Just to throw a bit of extra information on the pile, here is my update for our batteries.

 

 

They aren't for everybody, but they seem to be doing what we asked of them above and beyond the standard choices.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Cape Eleuthera, Bahamas

Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

thomas.kleman <no_reply@...>
 

Whoa. Interesting solution. Just to be clear (before I start drilling holes) when you said "where it contracts the piston pin"......you meant "contacts the piston pin", right ? What kind of head do you have on the M8 bolt ? Does it matter ?

I'm going to verify that Maud doesn't have the pads.......kind of surprising given that everyone will need to change the pads at some point.......but if they aren't easily obtained, I will follow your lead.

Thanks for the idea........this is exactly why I love this site.

Tom Kleman
SV L'ORIENT SM2K 422
Bonaire

Re: Prop Shaft Brake Pads

Alan Leslie
 

We have had the same problem.
The issue with adjusting the bolt on the end of the cylinder is that it only puts pressure on the spring. If the piston has bottomed out at the end of the cylinder, no amount of adjusting the bolt will do any good.
You are right, your pads have worn to the point where there is no adjustment left.
Amel have pads, but neither of thew two Maud showed me were like our pads, which seem to have quite a bit of material still on them. 
So, what to do?

I took off the cylinder and caliper assembly, disassembled the floating caliper and drilled a 7mm hole through it where it contracts the piston pin, threaded the hole M8 and put in a bolt with a lock nut, so now I can adjust the distance between the caliper and the piston pin.Put it all back together and adjust the bolt so that the shaft can't spin, test with engine on that it is able to turn....

That's fixed it.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 Levuka, Fiji

Prop Shaft Brake Pads

thomas.kleman <no_reply@...>
 

I own SM2K #422 (L'ORIENT). On the way from Grenada to Bonaire, I heard.....then noticed.... that my prop shaft brake was no longer holding the prop shaft. I was going faster than normal......8+ knots straight down wind with the Genoa and Balooner set.  I'm hoping this hasn't been going on a long time, but I think I would have noticed. Anyway, I cranked down the adjustment screw all the way in (it had been all the way out prior to this adjustment). I can still turn the prop by hand when the engine is off. I tested the brake cylinder and pin by turning on and off the engine and noting the position of the pin and clamps.......the pin comes out of the cylinder when the engine is off, and retracts when the engine is on. It doesn't seem to be leaking. I'm assuming I need brake pads.........I obviously can't tell how thick they should be because I don't have a new set to compare it to. Any thoughts ? I'm assuming this is an Amel sourced item.


Tom and Kirstin

SV L'ORIENT

Bonaire

Re: SM Batteries

greatketch@...
 

Kent,

Just to throw a bit of extra information on the pile, here is my update for our batteries.


They aren't for everybody, but they seem to be doing what we asked of them above and beyond the standard choices.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Cape Eleuthera, Bahamas

Re: SM Batteries

karkauai
 

Thank you all for your replies. I will look into these various options and let you know what I decide.
Kent

Second-hand Spinnaker for A54?

Oscar de schaetzen
 

Hello,

On Sept 1st we will leave Port Leucate in the Mediterranean. We’ll cross the Atlantic probably as early as mid-November as we need to be in Panama early January. We’ll be sailing on ESTRAN, AMEL 54, 2005, n° 4 (ex-demonstration boat in Hyères).  

I’m preparing the boat and unfortunately, we don’t have any downwind sails, such as a symmetric spinnaker. If one of you has a spinnaker that he doesn’t use and if it is in good shape, I would be interested purchasing it.

We’re facing some unexpected costs and the selling of our house is not running very smoothly, therefore I’m looking for second-hand stuff in order to push costs down and still realize this dream. 

FYI, I’m from Belgium, 37 yrs old. My wife is 34 and we’ll be leaving with our 3 kids aged 4 to 9.

If you have other second-hand stuff that is now un-useful to you, I might be interested as well. Even things like pilots, charts, fenders, life raft, automatic life vests for children, …

I look forward to meet as many as possible AMEL owners around the world. Know that if we meet somewhere in a berth, there’s always a couple of beers in our fridge and you’re always welcome for an aperitive.

Kind regards,

Oscar


Re: SM Batteries

Miles
 

Hi Kent,

 

I am using 8 group 31 deep cycle batteries from NAPA.  I don’t know who that real manufacturer is but they have worked well now for the last three years and they are cheap enough to replace when they start to age.  For starting, I use a NAPA group 31 truck starting battery.  It spins the engine.

In Europe, I had a set of calcium batteries.  They were very good for more than 4 years.  If left alone for 4 months, they didn’t discharge.  They don’t seem to be available in the US.  I have not looked in the Caribbean.  

 

Regards,

 

Miles s/y Ladybug, sm 216 , Le Marin, Martinique

Re: Raising the waterline aft on SM

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Miles, Ian & Judy, and Bill:

Thanks for your input, it is valued.  I just got back to the boat yesterday and looked at the waterline issue with Ken Towne of Island Marine Inc here at Puerto Del Rey in Puerto Rico and measuring the existing water "marking" there is 9 inches of bottom paint above the waterline / watermark at the bow, tapering to 0 inches of anti-fouling above the water line aft.  We have decided to raise the antifouling by three inches aft and shoot a laser level along the side of the boat so it is a straight line from the existing 9 inches forward.  She still won't be level on her lines but she will be "more level" than before by a long shot. 

I think 3 inches of bottom paint showing at the stern will give me some leeway if I add a stern solar arch (about 200 lbs I believe, for either an Atlantic Arch or an Emek Marine Arch.

In case you are wondering I had previous place a lot of weight in the bow to try and level the boat but it head to pronounced "hobby horsing" in heavy seas. 

Thanks again all, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000  #335
Fajardo Puerto Rico - Puerto Del Rey Marina Yard

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Batteries

Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

Hi Kent,

My old girl is hull 007… yet I managed to change the layout to 8 batteries below the passage berth.  I need new batteries soon and will buy GET Mastervolt 185 AH X6.  Will fit my battery box and give me 25% more amperage while reducing the wiring mess in the box.

Just for your thoughts.

Jean-Pierre Germain, SY Eleuthera, SM 007 Fakarava Atoll French Polynesia.



On 19 May 2018, at 13:44, karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi Amel Cousins,
I know this has been discussed before, but I’m not having any luck searching the site.

I want to replace my current 8 group 27 hybrid batteries (between cranking and deep cycle characteristics) with deep cycle higher AHr batteries. They are only 90 AHr for a total of 360AHr at 24v.I’ve found Crown 130A hrs group 31’s. My battery compartment (very early SM2K) will only hold 8 group 31’s + 1 cranking battery. That would give me a total of 520 A hrs. Does anyone have experience with these?

I know others have used 6v deep cycle batteries. How many can you fit in your battery compartment? Total A-Hrs? Do you have pics of the installation?

I want to stay with lead acid wet cells on the advice of others who say finding AGMs or GelCells may be difficult in remote places (heading for the S Pacific next Spring).

Any/all advice or experience greatly appreciated.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy
St Michaels, MD