Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Porter McRoberts
 

Thanks Mark. 
If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal?
Thanks again!
Porter


On Jul 7, 2018, at 11:13 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

It really doesn’t matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is done with a load on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.

 

This is true for all diesel engines.

 

Where you run the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too much strain. This is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.

 

How long? At least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently.. We run ours up every hour for about five minutes. This works for us.

 

Keep in mind, this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will cause carbon buildup. Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge cycle.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 11:35 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Ok. Bullshit aside. 

I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while. 

It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?  

Is “racing” out of gear best?  I would think load would be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2 raw water flow. 

Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle?  100% down? 80%?  

And for how long?  

 

Many thanks, as always to this great group. 

 

Porter

A54-152. 

 

 

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 


On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:02 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

 

Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If  I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And, please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.

 

But if you want specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”

This is below the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while underway.

 

Regardless of whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.

 

I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can you tell?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 3:20 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Hi Mark,

Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."

 

This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you quote what it says. 

 

What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is: 

 

"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve.  Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".

 

In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.

 

Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm.  We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically.  However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.  There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive as well.  Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.

 

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429

La Maddalena, Sardegna

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

Mark Erdos
 

Duane,

 

I opted to install an in-line strainer. It has worked very well and I wish I had done it sooner. The strainer is made by Banjo and is heavy-duty glass reinforced polypropylene. It contains a stainless steel mesh screen. The basket can be checked by removing a plug at the bottom but I prefer to remove the basket covering to check for impeller blades. I found this to be the less messy method

 

Here is a pic:

 

 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/1867763827/lightbox/303227963?orderBy=ordinal&sortOrder=asc&photoFilter=ALL#zax/303227963

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 2:41 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

 

 

There was some discussion in 2015 about adding a strainer to the Onan raw water hose going before the heat exchanger.  I'm supposing several people might have done that and I was wondering if sometone could post a photo of the installation and your opinion on the operation.  

 

Here is a sample of what I thought was being installed (perhaps a different manufacturer):

 

file:///C:/Users/Duane/Downloads/Y%20Strainers%20-%20Filtration%20-%20Grainger%20Industrial%20Supply.pdf

 

Thanks,

Duane

Wanderer, SM#477

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

 

The Onan 4 cylinder and the Onan 3 cylinder Kubota take the same water pump (Onan 132-0459 132−0358) (Sherwood G-702)...probably year 1995 to 2015...maybe more years.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be taken when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any referred to mechanical and/or electrical device or system.


On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 9:39 AM Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Mark,
I found the G702 on Amazon and would like to order one as a spare.
However, I need to be sure that pump is the right one for my MDKAW model from 2005. Do all ONAN that we use on our AMELS have the same pump? Where can i  ask/research to be sure in case there are different Sherwood pumps for our ONANS available?
Thans, Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54 #15

On Saturday, July 7, 2018, 8:58:29 AM GMT-4, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 


Duane,
Actually, you're right - it is easy-peasy and you definitely don't need to go to the expense of a shop rebuilt. I agree with Mark that having two pumps works great - you can rebuild one at your leisure after popping the new one on. I do this with both my genset and my main engine water pumps - have rebuilt them both many times over the years.
In lieu of a press you can just carefully tap out the shaft using a socket from your socket wrench set as a "pusher". On reassembly you may want to put parts in the freezer and/or hot water to make them go together more easily. Sourcing parts is easy.
Have fun with it!
Cheers, Craig Briggs

---In amelyachtowners@... om, wrote :

Bill R.,

Thank for your post.  I actually had a rebuild kit on board (memory is an occasional thing for me these days it seems) and though easi-peasi, just rebuild the pump!  But it will take a shop to get this one apart.

I agree with you, another pump is the way to go.

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

I have this Y installed plus a one way check. Valve with spring ball to keep the water trapped upon genes shutdown.

Adds a lot to peace of mind and definitely adds 50 hours to the “now junk” time.

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM007

On 7 Jul 2018, at 08:37, amelyachtowners@... wrote:

Hello


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Courtney Gorman
 

Porter both Joel and Bill told me to run my engine max 1 hr out of every to to keep it and the turbo happy 
I just wait until I want to hurry then kick ass 
Not fuel efficient but if everything else stays happy then........
Same with cars run them hard sometimes or they have issues 
Cheers 
Courtney 
sv Trippin 54 #101
Grenada 


On Jul 7, 2018, at 11:36 AM, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Ryan,
  TAMD22 with fixed prop,  at survey with fresh bottom and clean prop we maxed out at 2700rpm and 7-8 knots.  19 no later waiting for haul out and fresh paint we are maxing out around 2400 rpm and 6.5 kts.  Prop had some groth that a diver scraped a few months ago...probably not the cleanest prop at the moment.

John
SV Annie
about to run south from Beryl....

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018, 2:36 PM Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all,

I've dug through the forum history on the topic of the "correct" RPM range for the Super Maramu, and I haven't quite found what I want.  What I have learned is there probably is no single, correct answer -- it depends on the engine and the prop.  But what I really want to know is not what RPM I should be seeing at wide open throttle, but what RPM I should be cruising at?  By this I mean the RPM you would use if you needed to motor for a long period of time.  If the max RPM is different for everyone, it stands to reason that cruising RPM should also be different for everyone.  Is there some way of calculating this RPM from the max?  I've heard a rule of thumb of 80% of max RPM, but given that some of our engines are "over-propped" by design, I don't know if it applies, or even if it's a good rule in the first place.  Should we rev to whatever is necessary to go a certain speed?  Is there any harm in operating the engine close to/at wide open throttle for extended periods of time?

For the record, I have a Volvo TMD22 (B?)...  I typically cruise at around 2400rpm, which yields a boat speed of about 6.5kts.  I have a fixed three-blade prop (probably the original spare).  I think the boat went faster at this RPM last year when I first bought her, but that could be me misremembering the RPM, or the tachometer going out of calibration, or the fact that I badly need a bottom job (though I had it scraped only a couple weeks ago).  I do not know my max RPM; my engine needs a new timing belt and I don't think it's prudent to stress it until that is replaced.  The fastest I've gone is about 2600 and I'm sure it can go higher.  I saw around 7.2kts STW at that speed.

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


Re: Onan Water Pump

Duane Siegfri
 

There was some discussion in 2015 about adding a strainer to the Onan raw water hose going before the heat exchanger.  I'm supposing several people might have done that and I was wondering if sometone could post a photo of the installation and your opinion on the operation.  

Here is a sample of what I thought was being installed (perhaps a different manufacturer):

file:///C:/Users/Duane/Downloads/Y%20Strainers%20-%20Filtration%20-%20Grainger%20Industrial%20Supply.pdf

Thanks,
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

amelyachtowners@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the amelyachtowners
group.

File : /Onan Genset Information/Y Strainers - Filtration - Grainger Industrial Supply.pdf
Uploaded by : sailor63109 <sailor63109@...>
Description : Strainer to catch impeller debris on hose to heat exchanger.

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/files/Onan%20Genset%20Information/Y%20Strainers%20-%20Filtration%20-%20Grainger%20Industrial%20Supply.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398

Regards,

sailor63109 <sailor63109@...>


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Kim Kimball <dhk@...>
 

Nicely put, Mark.  The "... this isn't FaceBook" got many a laugh here.

And I also like to know why my rubbish is rubbish, so to speak.  As Chief I broke a lot of stuff before I learned to ask others, and "rubbish" was a perfectly common reply in many of our chief'y discussions ... as long as there was a "why" to go along with it.

Kim

(Lapsed USCG licensed Chief Engineer, soon to be Amel sailor  ... just the minor detail of selling my house in the mountains ... and clearing out 20 years of acquired rubbish.)


On 7/6/18 4:07 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Barry,

 

Rather than just trash another member’s post, perhaps you could support your argument with some cold hard facts. After all, this isn’t FaceBook.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2018 5:41 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

I would not do what Pat suggests, that’s rubbish.

 

Kind regards

Barry & Robyn

Tradwinds III SM 171

--

Kind Regards
Barry Ferguson

Email: seagasm@...
Mobile/cell: +61 477 652 046
PO Box 1339
Hervey Bay Qld 4655
Australia



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

Mark Erdos
 

Alex,

 

Hope you are doing well.

 

I have a 1999 MDKAL Onan. The Onan part number for the complete raw water pump is 132-0358. This matches the same part number in your MDKAW parts manual and the same pump fits both models.  (page 46).  http://www.gemo-online.de/pdf/onan/MDKAV_parts.pdf in your manual

 

 

This is the correct part that will fit:

https://www.amazon.com/Sherwood-G702-PUMP-ONAN-132-0358/dp/B002IV69K4/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1530980928&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=132-0358

 

 

US$ 250.  Plus shipping – not bad.

 

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 10:37 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

 

 

Mark,

I found the G702 on Amazon and would like to order one as a spare.

However, I need to be sure that pump is the right one for my MDKAW model from 2005. Do all ONAN that we use on our AMELS have the same pump? Where can i  ask/research to be sure in case there are different Sherwood pumps for our ONANS available?

Thans, Alex

SY NO STRESS

AMEL54 #15

 

On Saturday, July 7, 2018, 8:58:29 AM GMT-4, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

 

 

 

Duane,

Actually, you're right - it is easy-peasy and you definitely don't need to go to the expense of a shop rebuilt. I agree with Mark that having two pumps works great - you can rebuild one at your leisure after popping the new one on. I do this with both my genset and my main engine water pumps - have rebuilt them both many times over the years.

In lieu of a press you can just carefully tap out the shaft using a socket from your socket wrench set as a "pusher". On reassembly you may want to put parts in the freezer and/or hot water to make them go together more easily. Sourcing parts is easy.

Have fun with it!

Cheers, Craig Briggs

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill R.,

 

Thank for your post.  I actually had a rebuild kit on board (memory is an occasional thing for me these days it seems) and though easi-peasi, just rebuild the pump!  But it will take a shop to get this one apart.

 

I agree with you, another pump is the way to go.

 

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Mark Erdos
 

Porter,

 

It really doesn’t matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is done with a load on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.

 

This is true for all diesel engines.

 

Where you run the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too much strain. This is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.

 

How long? At least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently. We run ours up every hour for about five minutes. This works for us.

 

Keep in mind, this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will cause carbon buildup. Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge cycle.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 11:35 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Ok. Bullshit aside. 

I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while. 

It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?  

Is “racing” out of gear best?  I would think load would be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2 raw water flow. 

Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle?  100% down? 80%?  

And for how long?  

 

Many thanks, as always to this great group. 

 

Porter

A54-152. 

 

 

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 


On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:02 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

 

Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If  I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And, please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.

 

But if you want specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”

This is below the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while underway.

 

Regardless of whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.

 

I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can you tell?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 3:20 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Hi Mark,

Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."

 

This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you quote what it says. 

 

What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is: 

 

"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve.  Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".

 

In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.

 

Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm.  We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically.  However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.  There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive as well.  Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.

 

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429

La Maddalena, Sardegna

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

Stephen Morrison <steve_morrison@...>
 

I can tell you that that is the exact one I bought on Amazon this fall and installed on my Onan, though mine is an MDKAV 7kw on a 2003 Super Maramu.

Steve Morrison
SM 380 TouRai
Hilton Head, SC


On Jul 7, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Mark,
I found the G702 on Amazon and would like to order one as a spare.
However, I need to be sure that pump is the right one for my MDKAW model from 2005. Do all ONAN that we use on our AMELS have the same pump? Where can i  ask/research to be sure in case there are different Sherwood pumps for our ONANS available?
Thans, Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54 #15

On Saturday, July 7, 2018, 8:58:29 AM GMT-4, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 


Duane,
Actually, you're right - it is easy-peasy and you definitely don't need to go to the expense of a shop rebuilt. I agree with Mark that having two pumps works great - you can rebuild one at your leisure after popping the new one on. I do this with both my genset and my main engine water pumps - have rebuilt them both many times over the years.
In lieu of a press you can just carefully tap out the shaft using a socket from your socket wrench set as a "pusher". On reassembly you may want to put parts in the freezer and/or hot water to make them go together more easily. Sourcing parts is easy.
Have fun with it!
Cheers, Craig Briggs

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill R.,

Thank for your post.  I actually had a rebuild kit on board (memory is an occasional thing for me these days it seems) and though easi-peasi, just rebuild the pump!  But it will take a shop to get this one apart.

I agree with you, another pump is the way to go.

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

John Clark
 

Hi Ryan,
  TAMD22 with fixed prop,  at survey with fresh bottom and clean prop we maxed out at 2700rpm and 7-8 knots.  19 no later waiting for haul out and fresh paint we are maxing out around 2400 rpm and 6.5 kts.  Prop had some groth that a diver scraped a few months ago...probably not the cleanest prop at the moment.

John
SV Annie
about to run south from Beryl....

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018, 2:36 PM Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all,

I've dug through the forum history on the topic of the "correct" RPM range for the Super Maramu, and I haven't quite found what I want.  What I have learned is there probably is no single, correct answer -- it depends on the engine and the prop.  But what I really want to know is not what RPM I should be seeing at wide open throttle, but what RPM I should be cruising at?  By this I mean the RPM you would use if you needed to motor for a long period of time.  If the max RPM is different for everyone, it stands to reason that cruising RPM should also be different for everyone.  Is there some way of calculating this RPM from the max?  I've heard a rule of thumb of 80% of max RPM, but given that some of our engines are "over-propped" by design, I don't know if it applies, or even if it's a good rule in the first place.  Should we rev to whatever is necessary to go a certain speed?  Is there any harm in operating the engine close to/at wide open throttle for extended periods of time?

For the record, I have a Volvo TMD22 (B?)..  I typically cruise at around 2400rpm, which yields a boat speed of about 6.5kts.  I have a fixed three-blade prop (probably the original spare).  I think the boat went faster at this RPM last year when I first bought her, but that could be me misremembering the RPM, or the tachometer going out of calibration, or the fact that I badly need a bottom job (though I had it scraped only a couple weeks ago).  I do not know my max RPM; my engine needs a new timing belt and I don't think it's prudent to stress it until that is replaced.  The fastest I've gone is about 2600 and I'm sure it can go higher.  I saw around 7.2kts STW at that speed.

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Porter McRoberts
 

Ok. Bullshit aside. 
I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while. 
It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?  
Is “racing” out of gear best?  I would think load would be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2 raw water flow. 
Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle?  100% down? 80%?  
And for how long?  

Many thanks, as always to this great group. 

Porter
A54-152. 



Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:02 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

 

Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If  I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And, please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.

 

But if you want specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”

This is below the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while underway.

 

Regardless of whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.

 

I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can you tell?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 3:20 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Hi Mark,

Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."

 

This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you quote what it says. 

 

What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is: 

 

"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve.  Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".

 

In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.

 

Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm.  We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically.  However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.  There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive as well.  Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.

 

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429

La Maddalena, Sardegna

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

Alex Ramseyer <alexramseyer@...>
 

Mark,
I found the G702 on Amazon and would like to order one as a spare.
However, I need to be sure that pump is the right one for my MDKAW model from 2005. Do all ONAN that we use on our AMELS have the same pump? Where can i  ask/research to be sure in case there are different Sherwood pumps for our ONANS available?
Thans, Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54 #15

On Saturday, July 7, 2018, 8:58:29 AM GMT-4, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 


Duane,
Actually, you're right - it is easy-peasy and you definitely don't need to go to the expense of a shop rebuilt. I agree with Mark that having two pumps works great - you can rebuild one at your leisure after popping the new one on. I do this with both my genset and my main engine water pumps - have rebuilt them both many times over the years.
In lieu of a press you can just carefully tap out the shaft using a socket from your socket wrench set as a "pusher". On reassembly you may want to put parts in the freezer and/or hot water to make them go together more easily. Sourcing parts is easy.
Have fun with it!
Cheers, Craig Briggs

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill R.,

Thank for your post.  I actually had a rebuild kit on board (memory is an occasional thing for me these days it seems) and though easi-peasi, just rebuild the pump!  But it will take a shop to get this one apart.

I agree with you, another pump is the way to go.

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Mark Erdos
 

Bob,

 

Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If  I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And, please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.

 

But if you want specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”

This is below the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while underway.

 

Regardless of whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.

 

I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can you tell?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 3:20 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Hi Mark,

Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."

 

This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you quote what it says. 

 

What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is: 

 

"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve.  Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".

 

In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.

 

Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm.  We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically.  However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.  There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive as well.  Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.

 

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429

La Maddalena, Sardegna

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge Continuous Running

Mark Garver
 

Thank you everyone. Alex, that was specifically my question. Upon further checking the float stick had somehow came up past the float switch holding it open. So I now have the Puisard back on and everything seems good. 

I really want to thank everyone for their quick and meaningful replies.

Best,

Mark


On Jul 7, 2018, at 7:03 AM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning Mark,

Generally speaking:
The switch (called “puisard”) that you find on the forward bulkhead should always be on, except when you want to work on the pump and disconnect it.
The Switch on the 24 Volt panel in the galley should be on “Auto” except when you want to use it to empty the bilge (for example before you leave for the day).

Now:
I think your bilge pump is not emptying anything, probably a leak in the valve (this happened to me). Following that I took as a rule, to always empty the bilge before I left the boat for the day.
Could be the on/off switch on the tube, but I doubt.

So you must switch off the pump before you burn it, by switching off the “puisard” switch you located (on the forward bulkhead). Sure they have a fuse inside, etc. but no need to let it run.

Then open it, inspect the flaps, etc.
It is not a good illustration, but here is what to expect inside:
http://www.nikimat.com/bilge_pump_electric_amfa_marina_zz.html
it could also be the little arm turning around the shaft that is turning empty, you will find out by opening it.

Meanwhile you can use the hand pump to empty your bilge.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 7/6/18, mgarver@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge Continuous Running
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Friday, July 6, 2018, 11:41 PM


 









I tried searching for this, but
couldn’t find the answer. My wife and I just returned to
our boat and today I noticed that the bilge is running
non-stop. I went to the engine room and noticed that the
bilge switch appears to be turned on, but am unsure if I
turn it to the lower position if I am turning off the
auto-bilge or not. When I turn the switch off, obviously the
bilge ceases to run, but not sure if it will kick in if
water builds up again. Question is if turned to the botttom
position, does that turn off the bilge pump including
automatic?
THanks,
Mark




Re: Onan Water Pump

Craig Briggs
 


Duane,
Actually, you're right - it is easy-peasy and you definitely don't need to go to the expense of a shop rebuilt. I agree with Mark that having two pumps works great - you can rebuild one at your leisure after popping the new one on. I do this with both my genset and my main engine water pumps - have rebuilt them both many times over the years.
In lieu of a press you can just carefully tap out the shaft using a socket from your socket wrench set as a "pusher". On reassembly you may want to put parts in the freezer and/or hot water to make them go together more easily. Sourcing parts is easy.
Have fun with it!
Cheers, Craig Briggs

---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailor63109@...> wrote :

Bill R.,

Thank for your post.  I actually had a rebuild kit on board (memory is an occasional thing for me these days it seems) and though easi-peasi, just rebuild the pump!  But it will take a shop to get this one apart.

I agree with you, another pump is the way to go.

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge Continuous Running

karkauai
 

All advice you are getting is correct.  It may be confusing because there are three switches controlling the pump:
*there is a breaker on a panel with other breakers on the forward bulkhead of the engine room. This powers the pump, and when the breaker is open (green button is “out” like when you trip a breaker with the red button), there is no power to the pump.
*On the 24v panel the switch has two positions.  When switch is ON (MANUAL) the pump runs continuously.  When in the AUTO position, the float switch controls the pump.
*On the pipe coming up from the sump is the Float Switch.  It is controlled by a string that turns the pump on when the sump fills enough to float the piston up enough to turn the switch on, and when the pump removes enough water from the sump, the string pulls on the float switch and turns the pump off.  My float switch failed in the off mode, the pump wouldn’t run in AUTO mode.  Another time the string became fouled and prevented the float piston from falling as water level went down, so the pump didn’t turn off.

You can determine if the AUTO mode is working properly by moving the Float Switch with your fingers.  Check that the string moves freely as the float goes up and down, and that the switch turns on and off as the float goes up and down.

Everything seems to be working properly, but the sump isn’t emptying, check for leaks in the intake hose (most likely a fitting, but could be the hose itself given your boat is 24y old).  While you have it out, check the one-way flapper valve at the bottom of the intake hose.

While you are working at the sump, clean the sump and hoses and float switch mechanism, and make sure the bonding strap is intact. (It is a copper strap connecting the bonding system to a keel bolt at the bottom of the sump, and is important to prevent galvanic corrosion of the keel.) A wet/dry vacuum will get the last bit of water out so you can see the bolt.

If the intake hose has no leaks, you will have to take the pump apart to find why the pump isn’t working.  As Alexandre’s and Danny’s posts say, it’s most likely a flapper valve, the plastic part that moves the diaphragm up and down, or the diaphragm itself.

Let us know what you find.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge Continuous Running

karkauai
 

On Kristy, (SM243) the switch on the 24v panel has two positions.  Auto and On.  To turn it off completely, open the breaker on the panel on the forward engine room bulkhead, or turn switch to Auto and disconnect the float switch.  If your 24v panel switch is On, moving it to the Auto position will allow the float switch to control the pump.
If the float switch is working properly and the pump runs continuously, you have a problem with the pump or an air leak in the intake hose that prevents the pump from pulling water up.

Is your sump full or empty?

Kent


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge Continuous Running

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Mark,

Generally speaking:
The switch (called “puisard”) that you find on the forward bulkhead should always be on, except when you want to work on the pump and disconnect it.
The Switch on the 24 Volt panel in the galley should be on “Auto” except when you want to use it to empty the bilge (for example before you leave for the day).

Now:
I think your bilge pump is not emptying anything, probably a leak in the valve (this happened to me). Following that I took as a rule, to always empty the bilge before I left the boat for the day.
Could be the on/off switch on the tube, but I doubt.

So you must switch off the pump before you burn it, by switching off the “puisard” switch you located (on the forward bulkhead). Sure they have a fuse inside, etc. but no need to let it run.

Then open it, inspect the flaps, etc.
It is not a good illustration, but here is what to expect inside:
http://www.nikimat.com/bilge_pump_electric_amfa_marina_zz.html
it could also be the little arm turning around the shaft that is turning empty, you will find out by opening it.

Meanwhile you can use the hand pump to empty your bilge.

Sincerely, Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 7/6/18, @Itsgood [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge Continuous Running
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Friday, July 6, 2018, 11:41 PM


 









I tried searching for this, but
couldn’t find the answer. My wife and I just returned to
our boat and today I noticed that the bilge is running
non-stop. I went to the engine room and noticed that the
bilge switch appears to be turned on, but am unsure if I
turn it to the lower position if I am turning off the
auto-bilge or not. When I turn the switch off, obviously the
bilge ceases to run, but not sure if it will kick in if
water builds up again. Question is if turned to the botttom
position, does that turn off the bilge pump including
automatic?
THanks,
Mark