On 23 April 2020 at 02:25 Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

 

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

 

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

 

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

 

 

	CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School   +1 832-380-4970 | brouse@... Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550  Website: www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

 

--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

Thanks to you Ian.
I am planning to cross the Atlantic in december and to go to Florida. 
I see that you are in Fort Lauderdale, so we will be able to meet each other in the real world :-) 
All the best,

Diego.

Jean-Pierre
I think it‘s unfair to broadcast such negative things about Desal, . Amel is still installing Desal Watermakers and I had very good experiances with SAV Dessalator. Mr Wagner jun. and his team is helpful and have a amazing knowledge about H2O makers.
So pls. we know us , be specific what was your problem with SAV. Maybe I can help you, cause I have a very good contact with Wagner
best
en confinité à St. Martin
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16

------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 20. Apr, 2020 um 20:55, Germain Jean-Pierre schrieb:

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks.  I also took the entire holder to the shop… to verify the interior measurements.  I suspect the new ones will be made to a closer tolerance.

 

Dessalator after sales service has been non existent. 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Jean-Pierre Germain

jp.germain45@...

 

 

 

On 21 Apr 2020, at 06:51, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

 

FYI, Dessalator originally made the membrane tube end caps out of white nylon. Emek copied Dessalator. Dessalator's choice of Nylon proved to be the wrong choice. Dessalator later made end caps from a harder material which was black. I am not sure of what the black material is, but, in my experience is that there have been very few issues with the Dessalator black end caps.
--

 

Best,

 

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

My Calendar 

 

Hi Danny,

I made a change to the endcaps to solve this problem once and for all. I drilled 3 holes in the side of the cap, making sure not to drill too deep and ending up in the inner cavity. Then I cut some thread in the hole (M6) and put a very short bolt with a hex head in the hole using 3M 5200.
Now I have three points on the cap I put the blade of a screwdriver to and gently tap the cap from the tube.
What Desalator should have done is make the cap diameter lager then the tube diameter so you can develop some grip on the cap. Also the price is insane.
I'm a bit underwhelmed with the way this watermaker is designed, although the dual voltage thing is very clever. The control logic is well below par for the price I would say.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

On Apr 22, 2020, at 7:22 AM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:



Matt,

1. We were never in cold climates
2. We were on the boat continuously with very few exceptions
3. I installed a 24-volt timer and solenoid valve to flush 2x weekly when we were off the boat for a month

	CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School +1 832-380-4970 | brouse@... Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550  Website: www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com

View My Training Calendar

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:17 AM Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

So what did you use, if you stored the boat?

I heard that propylene glycol (RV water system antifreeze) is a good substitute?......

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:10 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

	CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School +1 832-380-4970 | brouse@... Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550  Website: www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com

View My Training Calendar

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

Hi Arnold;

 

I had placed an order for about 10 packs a few years ago. At the time they were 5 Euros per pack. I do see now that they have increased their price to 27.53 Euros on their website. That is an unexpected increase.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arnold Mente via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 9:13 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

Hi Mohammad and Atypisch,

 

wehre did you buy the sterilizing powder? My last bill from Desallator was € 22,95 +20% VAT for the powder!

 

Best and be save

 

Arnold

SY Zephyr

SM203

 

Am 22.04.2020 um 18:05 schrieb Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>:

 

We have followed Dessalator instructions for storage during the off season. We have used the reusable cartridge and powder provided by Dessalator. (5 Euros per use). We have not had any issues.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:36 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

Paul,

 

I was referring to the fact that Dessalator recommends using the ST2 sterilizing cartridge and 1 packet of their "sterilizing" powder." This is regardless of the size.

<image001.png>

	CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School +1 832-380-4970 | brouse@... Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550  Website: www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:24 AM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

 

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

 

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

 

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

 

 

<image002.jpg>	CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School  +1 832-380-4970 | brouse@... Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550   Website: www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com  <image003.jpg><image003.jpg><image003.jpg>

 

View My Training Calendar <image004.jpg>

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121 

-- 
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 

 

--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203

Hi Mohammad and Atypisch,

--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

	CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School +1 832-380-4970 | brouse@... Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550  Website: www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com

View My Training Calendar

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

Am 21.04.2020 um 17:39 schrieb CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>:



[Edited Message Follows]

A poll has been updated:

We would like to ask you which Topics you prefer to be discussed during the ZOOM meeting and if you are OK with the Tentative Schedule.

The following is the Tentative Schedule for the ZOOM meeting. By selecting GMT at 2000 hours, we can include members worldwide:

Country	GMT +/-	Scheduled Time	Scheduled Date
(GMT)	0	2000	4/25/2020
UK Summer Time	100	2100	4/25/2020
NZ	1200	800	4/26/2020
AU Queensland	1000	600	4/26/2020
Tahiti	-1000	1000	4/25/2020
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USA East	-400	1600	4/25/2020
USA Central	-600	1400	4/25/2020
Martinique	-400	1600	4/25/2020
Germany	200	2200	4/25/2020
Central EU Summer Time	200	2200	4/25/2020
Note: The above was checked with: https://greenwichmeantime.com/time-gadgets/time-zone-converter/

You can select multiple answers.

We plan a 30-minute ZOOM meeting with 15 minutes to discuss each of 2 Topics. We currently have 35 members that have expressed the wish to participate. I have a list of those members and will send an email to you today.

1. I am OK with the Tentative Schedule
2. Sourcing parts
3. SM & SN furler maintenance (Genoa & Main)
4. Hard Dodger plexiglass replacement
5. Galley Upgrades
6. Standing Rigging
7. Navigation Equipment Upgrades from B&G Hydra and B&G 3000

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