Date   
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upwind with staysail

Paul Osterberg
 

Paul

Hello!

My thoughts about stay sail.

We did invest in a stay sail, unfortunately the equipment we got was substandard and shape of sail very poor. However we have numerus times encounter conditions when we wish it had worked better. In The Mediterranean wind was often 25 to 30 knots true and “of course” up wind, in The Caribbean we had a lot of up wind sailing between the islands, the same going up from The Bahamas to The Chesapeake bay.  our new Genoa does not furl very well a fot or two, if we furl more the shape is not very good and we lose height. When true wind approaching +25 knots, we do not fancy going up wind but unfortunately, we have had much more of that then expected, so we will in connection with changing of our standing rig when in Le Marine, make sure we get a proper installation of our stay sail, alternatively invest in a smaller Genoa the 130% that has been discussed recently on the forum. BUT the engine in the SM is definitely the Genoa, I say up to 22-24 knots apparent wind a furled Genoa gives much higher speed and VMG then a stay sail, first at higher wind strengths one has a benefit of a stay sail. Concerning tacking we do not find it a problem with the stay sail, even before installing the stay sail we found it easier to tack when partly furling the Genoa, now we have to furl it a little bit more. I found it very rare that we do “short” tacking, I guess the shortest period between tacks on very rare occasions are 15 minutes, we often go several hours on the same tack so if we are forced to furl the Genoa at that time is a very minor obstacle. More of a obstacle is when taking down the Balooner, as one should do that with the wind forward of the beam the ballooner does blow in to the furled stay sail and the friction at high wind make it difficult to take down the balooner, however by furling the twin head sails and unfurl them so that the ballooner are in the wind shade of the Genoa one can relatively easy take down the ballooner.


Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259


  


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upwind with staysail

Peter Forbes
 

All,

We use our staysail on Carango [Amel 54] a lot and it definitely enables us to point higher. We use it with a 'barber hauler' too to get an even closer turning point closer to the centre line of the yacht. We use the running backstays which are I think vital to balance the pressure on the mast from the staysail.


Peter Forbes
0044 7836 209730
Carango  Sailing Ketch
Amel 54 #035
In Bermuda

On 9 Apr 2018, at 06:49, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Hi Paul;
 
On our 54, we find that the staysail in combination with the Genoa does help us point higher, or at least the boat can stay in the groove at closer wind angles. We have never measured it, so I do not have a great answer for you, but how much higher we can point does depend on the wind strength. The stronger the wind the higher we can point due to the staysail sheeted inboard of the deck and the small size of the sail needing the power to drive the boat up wind. This is not however a significant amount. I  think we are talking anything between 2-5 degrees depending on wind strength.
 
With wind over 30 knots, the staysail has sufficient power to fly alone and very comfortable. Especially if we are close hauled. The heal angle of the boat is significantly reduced, the effect of wind gusts on changing the heal angle is much less and the boat is well balanced and under control. In our opinion the staysail on the 54 is a great asset to have. You can set it in the heavy conditions and not have concerns about the safety of the rig and have sufficient power to approach hull speed in most points of sail, except maybe being close hauled. There have been a couple of occasions I can think of that we have had to slightly furl the staysail for comfort.
 
For us, the staysail is a great asset, that does get used, although not often and usually in winds over 25-30 knots.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2018 4:43 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upwind with staysail

 

Paul, I have a 55 that came with a staysail, it has been used very rarely and in fact never really been needed, it causes more problems being there than it would ever hope to be useful or effective. When I buy another Amel, it won’t have a staysail.


Bob Grey
Renaissance III
55 #25

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Monday, April 9, 2018, 00:34, paul.cooper74@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful responses.  My previous boat (a PSC) had a removable inner forestay which I rigged for offshore sailing only.   Used, and loved, it for heavy weather not upwind sailing.  With the single rig, a double-reefed main and staysail combo was perfectly balanced in heavy winds.  I suspect with the ketch rig the advantages would not be so great, which I actually experienced on our friend's SM2K in 40+ kt winds in the med.  No trinkette and no problem.


Bill, thank you for your advice on new ownership.  So much food for thought, I think my brain must be getting obese.

Paul C.



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upwind with staysail

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Paul;
 
On our 54, we find that the staysail in combination with the Genoa does help us point higher, or at least the boat can stay in the groove at closer wind angles. We have never measured it, so I do not have a great answer for you, but how much higher we can point does depend on the wind strength. The stronger the wind the higher we can point due to the staysail sheeted inboard of the deck and the small size of the sail needing the power to drive the boat up wind. This is not however a significant amount. I  think we are talking anything between 2-5 degrees depending on wind strength.
 
With wind over 30 knots, the staysail has sufficient power to fly alone and very comfortable. Especially if we are close hauled. The heal angle of the boat is significantly reduced, the effect of wind gusts on changing the heal angle is much less and the boat is well balanced and under control. In our opinion the staysail on the 54 is a great asset to have. You can set it in the heavy conditions and not have concerns about the safety of the rig and have sufficient power to approach hull speed in most points of sail, except maybe being close hauled. There have been a couple of occasions I can think of that we have had to slightly furl the staysail for comfort.
 
For us, the staysail is a great asset, that does get used, although not often and usually in winds over 25-30 knots.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2018 4:43 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upwind with staysail

 

Paul, I have a 55 that came with a staysail, it has been used very rarely and in fact never really been needed, it causes more problems being there than it would ever hope to be useful or effective. When I buy another Amel, it won’t have a staysail.


Bob Grey
Renaissance III
55 #25

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Monday, April 9, 2018, 00:34, paul.cooper74@... [amelyachtowners]

 

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful responses.  My previous boat (a PSC) had a removable inner forestay which I rigged for offshore sailing only.   Used, and loved, it for heavy weather not upwind sailing.  With the single rig, a double-reefed main and staysail combo was perfectly balanced in heavy winds.  I suspect with the ketch rig the advantages would not be so great, which I actually experienced on our friend's SM2K in 40+ kt winds in the med.  No trinkette and no problem.


Bill, thank you for your advice on new ownership.  So much food for thought, I think my brain must be getting obese.

Paul C.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upwind with staysail

Bob Grey
 

Paul, I have a 55 that came with a staysail, it has been used very rarely and in fact never really been needed, it causes more problems being there than it would ever hope to be useful or effective. When I buy another Amel, it won’t have a staysail.

Bob Grey
Renaissance III

On Monday, April 9, 2018, 00:34, paul.cooper74@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful responses.  My previous boat (a PSC) had a removable inner forestay which I rigged for offshore sailing only.   Used, and loved, it for heavy weather not upwind sailing.  With the single rig, a double-reefed main and staysail combo was perfectly balanced in heavy winds.  I suspect with the ketch rig the advantages would not be so great, which I actually experienced on our friend's SM2K in 40+ kt winds in the med.  No trinkette and no problem.


Bill, thank you for your advice on new ownership.  So much food for thought, I think my brain must be getting obese.

Paul C.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

eric freedman
 

Hi David,

How high above the mast head does the wind gen have to be to clear the triadic stay?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2018 4:48 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

 

Hi Danny,

Thanks for the concern, and dialogue.  Sorry about the cold-sweats.  I agree, needing to rotate the unit out-of-wind &/or to physically tether the blades due to an operating limitation/requirement, is not a viable option for anything mounted above, say, 2 meters.  That is not the case here.

I am not thinking on doing a mast-climb to lower the wind-turbine at sea or in adverse conditions.

What I am thinking is to lower the unit (or remove the blades) if hauling out, or leaving the boat, for an extended period in a high-wind-prone area/season.  Not just for the survivability of the unit itself, but because of the wind-loads such additions would place on the attachment points, mast, and boat as a whole. Just as one would for solar panels, or other removable deck-ware.  It may be that the insurance company requires the masts to be taken off if secured on-land in the hurricane belt in-season, in which case this aspect becomes moot.

As an aside, in addition to a manual switch that stops/slows the blades (by shorting out the coils), the Rutland 1200 starts to electronically self-limit at wind-speeds above 35 knots (or when charging current is no longer needed). To my mind this is better than simply letting the the blades spin to dump excess current to a resistive load (&/or trying to slow/stop a rotor already exposed to high winds).  I have heard of Rutland 1200 units successfully self-limiting and surviving hurricane-force winds.  On that basis, I reckon that the unit can stay up in all conditions I am likely to encounter at sea.  Of course, as we have seen with IRMA, nothing, not even the masts themselves, can necessarily survive a full-on Cat5 or, more properly, the debris that is often associated with such conditions.

David
Perigee, SM#396
St Maarten




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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

SV Perigee
 

Hi Danny,

Thanks for the concern, and dialogue.  Sorry about the cold-sweats.  I agree, needing to rotate the unit out-of-wind &/or to physically tether the blades due to an operating limitation/requirement, is not a viable option for anything mounted above, say, 2 meters.  That is not the case here.

I am not thinking on doing a mast-climb to lower the wind-turbine at sea or in adverse conditions.

What I am thinking is to lower the unit (or remove the blades) if hauling out, or leaving the boat, for an extended period in a high-wind-prone area/season.  Not just for the survivability of the unit itself, but because of the wind-loads such additions would place on the attachment points, mast, and boat as a whole. Just as one would for solar panels, or other removable deck-ware.  It may be that the insurance company requires the masts to be taken off if secured on-land in the hurricane belt in-season, in which case this aspect becomes moot.

As an aside, in addition to a manual switch that stops/slows the blades (by shorting out the coils), the Rutland 1200 starts to electronically self-limit at wind-speeds above 35 knots (or when charging current is no longer needed). To my mind this is better than simply letting the the blades spin to dump excess current to a resistive load (&/or trying to slow/stop a rotor already exposed to high winds).  I have heard of Rutland 1200 units successfully self-limiting and surviving hurricane-force winds.  On that basis, I reckon that the unit can stay up in all conditions I am likely to encounter at sea.  Of course, as we have seen with IRMA, nothing, not even the masts themselves, can necessarily survive a full-on Cat5 or, more properly, the debris that is often associated with such conditions.

David
Perigee, SM#396
St Maarten

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] RE: Rebuild genoa furler, yes or no

eric freedman
 

David,

Gaetan’s shop re rigs the boat and does all mast work with the masts up.

They replace the rigging in pairs port and starboard of the same stay. They then move on to the

next pair of stays. I elected to not install the triadic insulators and install a turnbuckle instead. That stay was used for my now extinct weather fax. It also saves $500- by not using the Amel mast insulation kit.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2018 2:04 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] RE: Rebuild genoa furler, yes or no

 

 

Hi Eric,

>>> re: Why are your masts coming off?

When we checked with FKG, they said that when replacing Standing Rigging, they routinely un-step the mast/s.  Easier and quicker that way, also to be able to better rectify anything else that needs to be done up the top, if necessary.

We did a cost comparison with Gaétan in Martinique, with of Caraibe Greement // Caribbean Rigging making up the rigging locally using ACMO parts as you describe.  With FKG, the cost for the actual work was less, but then almost the same when including the cost of the crane (2x$400-).

For the ACMO rigging tax-free from the factory, add a little more due to the EUR1,200- air-freight.  But FKG is having container-loads of masts coming out from France, so we could get our pallet of rigging delivered here to SXM for an add-on coast of only USD250-, covering ground transport from ACMO factory to Z-Spars and some 'administrative' costs.

So, overall, about the same cost-wise to have the ACMO factory rigging exactly to AMEL specs rigging, done in SXM.

When I am up the mast, I can see some corrosion starting under the paint, so now would be a good time to do some cleaning, check the pulleys and sheaves, and so on.  We are upgrading our wind mast-head unit with a NMEA2000 unit. And we are starting to see some problems with radio aerials and lighting - I guess to be expected for a 2003 boat - so I will be running new VHF cables, and replacing those lighting fittings that are starting to deteriorate. 

As part of the 'wait 12 months' philosophy, we are also only now getting around to install our wind generator on the top of the mizzen.  This in particular easier done at waist height, than aloft.

So we elected to un-step the masts, and do everything we can here and now.  But with the forestay and genoa furler left for the AMEL specialists in Martinique.  I will probably get a rig-check and tune in MQ as well, just to be sure everything is as it should be.

Once all the work is done, I will report back to the group about our experience overall with FKG.

Cheers,

David
Perigee, SM#396
St Maarten

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi David, You make me break out in a cold sweat.

If you are mounting a wind generator on top of the mizzen get one that can stay there in all conditions. Imagine you are at sea in building conditions and you get a forecast of wind strength beyond your generators ability. There is no way you will be going up there to get it down. There are many stories out there of wind generators disintegrating and losing blades in high winds. One I heard of recently a blade came off and speared through the deck. The Super Wind unit is one that can stay up there in all conditions for two reasons. The mechanically feathering blades and its very robust design and construction.It also has a stop switch that can be used if a hurricane comes through that exceeds 100 mph. A lot of others have blades that feather by flexing and require to be tethered to stop them in high winds. Not an option at the top of the mast.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 09 April 2018 at 03:28 "David Vogel dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Greetings all.

And thanks for the discussion on these topics.

Answering firstly aspects of the wind generator.

I am about to mount our new wind-gen on top of the mizzen.  I was concerned about the weight of a D400 up there.  This siting chosen for best wind speed & clean air, giving maximum output for any given conditions.

I decided upon a Rutland 1200, weighing less than 8kg, vs 17kg for the D400.  Roughly the same power output curve.  Even though this is a relatively new unit (launched 2016), having spoken to owners and listened to installed units, nothing adverse to be heard on either of these fronts. Any support issues have by all accounts been resolved quickly by Marlec UK.

An extra benefit of this unit, is that the included charge controller is a MPPT unit, which also accepts input from up to 500W of solar panels (@24V) - reducing the problems of voltage mis-match than can occur when combining charging sources.  Although this does introduce a single-point-of-failure, having a standard Victron or blue-Sky controller on-hand might alleviate this to some extent.

Another decision point was that the Rutland units puts 'wild' or raw AC down the past, minimising voltage losses that might otherwise be incurred for mounting at the top of the mizzen, compared to a unit that puts out already-rectified DC down the wire.

The unit is a 'maintenance/service free' so, apart from new bearing every 5-7-10 years, hopefully nothing to be done there. 

One downside is that, in the event of needing to fix a broken unit, or in the event of forecast high winds, getting the unit down could be a handful.

Any insights on how to quickly and easily do this (from a bosun's chair and using standard rigging equipment) gratefully accepted.

David
Perigee SM#396
St Maarten
 


On Sunday, 8 April 2018, 9:19, "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups..com> wrote:


 
 
Thanks Danny.
Greatly appreciated.
Best Regards,
Jeff


On Sun, Apr 08, 2018 at 12:33 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 
Hi Jeff,
the comments were on this forum a few months ago, probably directed at wind generators in general but he had a D 400 he would have been pleased to dispose of. I did wonder if there was something wrong with his install as he had had trouble getting it to work at all. 
For the replacement in the first instance I communicated with Super Wind in Germany to discuss possible servicing options. They were incredibly helpful sending me detailed annotated drawings and diagrams showing tests and then instructions on dismantling. In the event we found the housing worn from failing bearings. After 9 years continuous service you might expect that. So I went with the replacement. As I had installed the original with a knowledgeable technician I needed no help there. The owners manual provided has quite detailed instructions, clear, concise and understandable. It is a bit of a trick lifting the unit onto the top of the mizzen from the bosuns chair. If you go down this path Ill tell you my method. As to advice, you could do no better than contact Klaus Krieger at Super Wind even if you buy elsewhere although they are happy to ship. You will need the stop switch, two fuses, the controller and the dump elements as well as the generator. I got my originals all at once at the Annapolis  boat show and the extras were usable with the new unit.
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 08 April 2018 at 13:56 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@opt online.net [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
 

Will do.
I'm  surprised at any negative comments on the d400. I've only heard good things. 
I need to educate myself on the different components involved. what dealer did you use, and how was their support in helping on the install?
I thought Ocean Energy's people were extremely knowledgeable and helpful, however they don't offer any wind generating systems, only solar and hydro.
I'm skeptical on the hydro, due to my thoughts previously expressed..
Thanks for answering my questions.
Best Regards,
Jeff

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 08:21 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 
Hi Jeff,
Weight: Superwind 11.5 kg D 400 17 kg or 33% heavier. At the top of a mast that is significant. Output. Superwind is rated for 350 watts and the D400 400 watts. I have been happy with the output from my Superwind, I have read on the forum an owners scathing comments about the lack of out put from a D400. Perhaps we had different expectations. As I said before. Not much output below 10 knots apparent, 15 knots quite good, 20 knots plus, terrific. When the batteries are full the Superwind diverts to two heater type elements to absorb the surplus, means you don't have to monitor the battery status. Its whole design is aimed to independent long term operation. The new 353 model is even more robust designed to withstand ice falls. The output is the same. I saw no reason to change. Google them, they have a good web site.
Regards
Danny
On 08 April 2018 at 10:08 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
 
Danny,
It helps a lot.. The rail mounting was recommended by someone else, who contacted me directly. Never thought of that, and it makes a lot of sense. Outside the rail wiring isn't a major asthetically disturbing concept. 
I think that the wiring through the locker is also a good idea.
What is the weight comparison between the super wind and the d400? Any idea?
What are the output specs comparatively? Any idea?
A plate to mount the wind generator on top of the mizzen attaching it to the existing extruding plate sounds like an excellent option.  
When I return to the boat later this month, I'm going to envision the options and get a better feel for the actual deployment. 
I greatly appreciate your feedback.
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 03:44 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 
Hi Jeff, The top of the Mizzen has a flat plate on it that extends beyond the extrusion. When we bought Ocean Pearl it had a hole at each corner. We made the mast for the wind generator with a matching plate that we bolted to the top of the mast with a strip of 3mm thick rubber between the two plates. Any wind generator you mount on the top of the mizzen must not need servicing or physical stopping, for obvious reasons. It must be vibration free, some will make the mizzen mast sing, and it must be genuinely quiet.. The D400 was one I looked at closely when we bought ours at the Annapolis boat show. We went around and around looking at all the options. The D400 is very bulky and heavy and I didn't like its clumsy swing to the side feathering in strong winds which is achieved by having a very short tail
Our wind generator is German made Super Wind. It is designed for remote locations and needs no service. I described its feathering and silence in my previous. After 9 years with no need for service at any time the bearings were worn and we replaced it this year. The technology remains the same. I contacted the company in Germany and they could not have been more helpful. We bought the replacement unit from and agent in New Zealand. I posted photos of the mast and month or two back while it was off for the change. Sadly I recently deleted them from my camera.
Solar panels. We have two 130 watt 12 volt panels linked together to give 24 volts, hence just 130 watts. We got them at Island Water world in St Maarten and they provided a clamp system that we used to attach them to the port side rail just aft of the cockpit, about 1/3 in 2/3 out if you get my meaning.Thy sit happily there and are easy to swing up out of harms way when docking.  Because I thought this may be a temporary site I surface ran the wiring down a staunchon across the deck, up and over the coaming and into the big cockpit locker and from there to the batteries via appropriate fuses and a controller. It has worked so well and is so unobtrusive we have left them there for 9 years. A cheap as chips solution and added benefit, works well. The surface mounted wiring is just not noticed so I've left that too I have in the past posted photos.
Hope this helps
Regards
Danny
On 08 April 2018 at 00:33 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
 
Danny,
A couple questions if you don't mind.
How did you mount the wind generator? What type is it? Have you heard of the d400, and any thoughts on it? How large, and where did you mount your solar panels?  9 years is a long time, and I have to assume that improvements have been made on the technology of both the wind and solar components. With that said, you seem to have a great combination that have got the job done with flying colors! That is amazing battery life, and speaks to an opitimal generating efficiency. Bravo!
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14



On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:19 AM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 
Hi Paul. I'll repeat my thoughts from past posts. We have had for 9 years a super wind generator on top of the mizzen.  mast. There is no vibration and no noise. It cannot be heard.. It has mechanially auto feathering blades and a stop switch which because of the auto feathering never needs to be used in strong winds. It never has to be used because of the sensibilities of night wstch crew or marins neighbours because you cant hear it.
I agree. Under 10 knots apparent wind the charge is slight. 15 knots good. 20 knots plus terrific. We only have 130 watts solar plus the 350 watt wind generator. I like having my bases covered. Sunny and windless ok. Windy and cloudy. Ok. Windy and sunny. Wow. Hiwever it was never my desire to be able to run all my high draw systems on these secondary chargers. I did not want to cross oceeans relying on diesel engines for my electrcity. Mid ocean storms can go for days with heavy cloud cover. Hence the wind gen. If i lost diesel generation i wanted to be able to keep my esential eletronics going. I could live without air con etc. As an aside. In my experience electric auto helms are not big current users. Radar is as are inverters. Auto helms should not be set too finely... A little bit of wandering does no harm and use a lot less juice.
Lastly I attribute the 8 years I got from.my flooded lead acid batteries to the combination of wind generator and solar. I thrashed them at times but mostly that constant charge looked after them
Regards
Danny
AM 299
Ocean Pearl



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 7/04/18 01:38 (GMT+12:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 
 
Paul,
 
We have an Air Breeze generator.. It is okay, not great.
 
It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch.. This is also a big plus when at dock..
 
When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.
 
On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds.
 
Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Guadeloupe
www.creampuff.us
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator
 
 
We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.
I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.
Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice?
 
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 

 
 
 

 
 
 


 


 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upwind with staysail

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Paul, watch for paralysis by analysis. Can be fatal.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl 

On 09 April 2018 at 02:34 "paul.cooper74@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful responses.  My previous boat (a PSC) had a removable inner forestay which I rigged for offshore sailing only.   Used, and loved, it for heavy weather not upwind sailing.  With the single rig, a double-reefed main and staysail combo was perfectly balanced in heavy winds.  I suspect with the ketch rig the advantages would not be so great, which I actually experienced on our friend's SM2K in 40+ kt winds in the med.  No trinkette and no problem.


Bill, thank you for your advice on new ownership.  So much food for thought, I think my brain must be getting obese.

Paul C.

 


 

Re: Rebuild genoa furler, yes or no

SV Perigee
 

Hi Eric,

>>> re: Why are your masts coming off?

When we checked with FKG, they said that when replacing Standing Rigging, they routinely un-step the mast/s.  Easier and quicker that way, also to be able to better rectify anything else that needs to be done up the top, if necessary.

We did a cost comparison with Gaétan in Martinique, with of Caraibe Greement // Caribbean Rigging making up the rigging locally using ACMO parts as you describe.  With FKG, the cost for the actual work was less, but then almost the same when including the cost of the crane (2x$400-).

For the ACMO rigging tax-free from the factory, add a little more due to the EUR1,200- air-freight.  But FKG is having container-loads of masts coming out from France, so we could get our pallet of rigging delivered here to SXM for an add-on coast of only USD250-, covering ground transport from ACMO factory to Z-Spars and some 'administrative' costs.

So, overall, about the same cost-wise to have the ACMO factory rigging exactly to AMEL specs rigging, done in SXM.

When I am up the mast, I can see some corrosion starting under the paint, so now would be a good time to do some cleaning, check the pulleys and sheaves, and so on.  We are upgrading our wind mast-head unit with a NMEA2000 unit. And we are starting to see some problems with radio aerials and lighting - I guess to be expected for a 2003 boat - so I will be running new VHF cables, and replacing those lighting fittings that are starting to deteriorate. 

As part of the 'wait 12 months' philosophy, we are also only now getting around to install our wind generator on the top of the mizzen.  This in particular easier done at waist height, than aloft.

So we elected to un-step the masts, and do everything we can here and now.  But with the forestay and genoa furler left for the AMEL specialists in Martinique.  I will probably get a rig-check and tune in MQ as well, just to be sure everything is as it should be.

Once all the work is done, I will report back to the group about our experience overall with FKG.

Cheers,

David
Perigee, SM#396
St Maarten

Re: Bilge alarm - but what happens if ...

SV Perigee
 

>>> but what happens if ...

Good point.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

eric freedman
 

Years ago I had a KISS wind generator on my last boat.

From an engineering standpoint it was elegant—it was so simple .

One of the good points of the generator was that it also sent AC down the wiring to a rectifier at the battery bank.

Using AC vs DC allows you to use a significantly smaller wire from the wind generator to the battery bank.



Just for my info , those of you that have a DC wind generator, what size wire did you run from the generator to the batteries?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2018 11:28 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator





Greetings all.



And thanks for the discussion on these topics.



Answering firstly aspects of the wind generator.



I am about to mount our new wind-gen on top of the mizzen. I was concerned about the weight of a D400 up there. This siting chosen for best wind speed & clean air, giving maximum output for any given conditions.



I decided upon a Rutland 1200, weighing less than 8kg, vs 17kg for the D400. Roughly the same power output curve. Even though this is a relatively new unit (launched 2016), having spoken to owners and listened to installed units, nothing adverse to be heard on either of these fronts. Any support issues have by all accounts been resolved quickly by Marlec UK.



An extra benefit of this unit, is that the included charge controller is a MPPT unit, which also accepts input from up to 500W of solar panels (@24V) - reducing the problems of voltage mis-match than can occur when combining charging sources. Although this does introduce a single-point-of-failure, having a standard Victron or blue-Sky controller on-hand might alleviate this to some extent.



Another decision point was that the Rutland units puts 'wild' or raw AC down the past, minimising voltage losses that might otherwise be incurred for mounting at the top of the mizzen, compared to a unit that puts out already-rectified DC down the wire.



The unit is a 'maintenance/service free' so, apart from new bearing every 5-7-10 years, hopefully nothing to be done there.



One downside is that, in the event of needing to fix a broken unit, or in the event of forecast high winds, getting the unit down could be a handful.



Any insights on how to quickly and easily do this (from a bosun's chair and using standard rigging equipment) gratefully accepted.



David

Perigee SM#396

St Maarten



On Sunday, 8 April 2018, 9:19, "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups..com> wrote:





Thanks Danny.

Greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Jeff


On Sun, Apr 08, 2018 at 12:33 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:



Hi Jeff,

the comments were on this forum a few months ago, probably directed at wind generators in general but he had a D 400 he would have been pleased to dispose of. I did wonder if there was something wrong with his install as he had had trouble getting it to work at all.

For the replacement in the first instance I communicated with Super Wind in Germany to discuss possible servicing options. They were incredibly helpful sending me detailed annotated drawings and diagrams showing tests and then instructions on dismantling. In the event we found the housing worn from failing bearings. After 9 years continuous service you might expect that. So I went with the replacement. As I had installed the original with a knowledgeable technician I needed no help there. The owners manual provided has quite detailed instructions, clear, concise and understandable. It is a bit of a trick lifting the unit onto the top of the mizzen from the bosuns chair. If you go down this path Ill tell you my method. As to advice, you could do no better than contact Klaus Krieger <https://webmail.xtra.co.nz/appsuite/> at Super Wind even if you buy elsewhere although they are happy to ship. You will need the stop switch, two fuses, the controller and the dump elements as well as the generator. I got my originals all at once at the Annapolis boat show and the extras were usable with the new unit.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl





On 08 April 2018 at 13:56 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@opt online.net [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:






Will do.

I'm surprised at any negative comments on the d400. I've only heard good things.

I need to educate myself on the different components involved. what dealer did you use, and how was their support in helping on the install?

I thought Ocean Energy's people were extremely knowledgeable and helpful, however they don't offer any wind generating systems, only solar and hydro.

I'm skeptical on the hydro, due to my thoughts previously expressed..

Thanks for answering my questions.

Best Regards,

Jeff

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 08:21 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:





Hi Jeff,

Weight: Superwind 11.5 kg D 400 17 kg or 33% heavier. At the top of a mast that is significant. Output. Superwind is rated for 350 watts and the D400 400 watts. I have been happy with the output from my Superwind, I have read on the forum an owners scathing comments about the lack of out put from a D400. Perhaps we had different expectations. As I said before. Not much output below 10 knots apparent, 15 knots quite good, 20 knots plus, terrific. When the batteries are full the Superwind diverts to two heater type elements to absorb the surplus, means you don't have to monitor the battery status. Its whole design is aimed to independent long term operation. The new 353 model is even more robust designed to withstand ice falls. The output is the same. I saw no reason to change. Google them, they have a good web site.

Regards

Danny

On 08 April 2018 at 10:08 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:





Danny,

It helps a lot.. The rail mounting was recommended by someone else, who contacted me directly. Never thought of that, and it makes a lot of sense. Outside the rail wiring isn't a major asthetically disturbing concept.

I think that the wiring through the locker is also a good idea.

What is the weight comparison between the super wind and the d400? Any idea?

What are the output specs comparatively? Any idea?

A plate to mount the wind generator on top of the mizzen attaching it to the existing extruding plate sounds like an excellent option.

When I return to the boat later this month, I'm going to envision the options and get a better feel for the actual deployment.

I greatly appreciate your feedback.

Best Regards,

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 03:44 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:





Hi Jeff, The top of the Mizzen has a flat plate on it that extends beyond the extrusion. When we bought Ocean Pearl it had a hole at each corner. We made the mast for the wind generator with a matching plate that we bolted to the top of the mast with a strip of 3mm thick rubber between the two plates. Any wind generator you mount on the top of the mizzen must not need servicing or physical stopping, for obvious reasons. It must be vibration free, some will make the mizzen mast sing, and it must be genuinely quiet.. The D400 was one I looked at closely when we bought ours at the Annapolis boat show. We went around and around looking at all the options. The D400 is very bulky and heavy and I didn't like its clumsy swing to the side feathering in strong winds which is achieved by having a very short tail

Our wind generator is German made Super Wind. It is designed for remote locations and needs no service. I described its feathering and silence in my previous. After 9 years with no need for service at any time the bearings were worn and we replaced it this year. The technology remains the same. I contacted the company in Germany and they could not have been more helpful. We bought the replacement unit from and agent in New Zealand. I posted photos of the mast and month or two back while it was off for the change. Sadly I recently deleted them from my camera.

Solar panels. We have two 130 watt 12 volt panels linked together to give 24 volts, hence just 130 watts. We got them at Island Water world in St Maarten and they provided a clamp system that we used to attach them to the port side rail just aft of the cockpit, about 1/3 in 2/3 out if you get my meaning.Thy sit happily there and are easy to swing up out of harms way when docking. Because I thought this may be a temporary site I surface ran the wiring down a staunchon across the deck, up and over the coaming and into the big cockpit locker and from there to the batteries via appropriate fuses and a controller. It has worked so well and is so unobtrusive we have left them there for 9 years. A cheap as chips solution and added benefit, works well. The surface mounted wiring is just not noticed so I've left that too I have in the past posted photos.

Hope this helps

Regards

Danny

.

On 08 April 2018 at 00:33 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:





Danny,

A couple questions if you don't mind.

How did you mount the wind generator? What type is it? Have you heard of the d400, and any thoughts on it? How large, and where did you mount your solar panels? 9 years is a long time, and I have to assume that improvements have been made on the technology of both the wind and solar components. With that said, you seem to have a great combination that have got the job done with flying colors! That is amazing battery life, and speaks to an opitimal generating efficiency. Bravo!

Best Regards,

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14




On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:19 AM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:





Hi Paul. I'll repeat my thoughts from past posts. We have had for 9 years a super wind generator on top of the mizzen. mast. There is no vibration and no noise. It cannot be heard.. It has mechanially auto feathering blades and a stop switch which because of the auto feathering never needs to be used in strong winds. It never has to be used because of the sensibilities of night wstch crew or marins neighbours because you cant hear it.

I agree. Under 10 knots apparent wind the charge is slight. 15 knots good. 20 knots plus terrific. We only have 130 watts solar plus the 350 watt wind generator. I like having my bases covered. Sunny and windless ok. Windy and cloudy. Ok. Windy and sunny. Wow. Hiwever it was never my desire to be able to run all my high draw systems on these secondary chargers. I did not want to cross oceeans relying on diesel engines for my electrcity. Mid ocean storms can go for days with heavy cloud cover. Hence the wind gen. If i lost diesel generation i wanted to be able to keep my esential eletronics going. I could live without air con etc. As an aside. In my experience electric auto helms are not big current users. Radar is as are inverters. Auto helms should not be set too finely... A little bit of wandering does no harm and use a lot less juice.

Lastly I attribute the 8 years I got from.my flooded lead acid batteries to the combination of wind generator and solar. I thrashed them at times but mostly that constant charge looked after them

Regards

Danny

AM 299

Ocean Pearl







Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.



-------- Original message --------

From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>

Date: 7/04/18 01:38 (GMT+12:00)

To: amelyachtowners@...

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator







Paul,



We have an Air Breeze generator.. It is okay, not great.



It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch.. This is also a big plus when at dock..



When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.



On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds.



Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.





With best regards,



Mark



Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Guadeloupe

www.creampuff.us



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator





We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.

I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.

Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice?



Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] RE: Rebuild genoa furler yes or no

eric freedman
 

Hi David,

Why are your  masts coming off?

 

2 years ago FKG changed 3 stays that were in need of changing. ( please say hello to Raul at FKG for me).

I also just changed the rigging due to its age and 80,000 miles.

When Gaetan changed the rigging in Martinique he cut a few of the old swages open.

They were like new. However you never know what the wire is like at the point where it joins the swages.

They did an amazing job in Martinique, changing all the rigging in 2 days.

They were meticulous and even polished the chain plates before installing the

New rigging. The rotary swage machine they have is amazing.

They fabricated the rigging on site using Acmo fittings.

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2018 10:34 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] RE: Rebuild genoa furler yes or no

 

 

Thanks Eric, for the extra information.

 

With the masts coming off this week, I will do the stays _except_ the forestay, which I am happy to defer* until Martinique, and then do that and the service on the Genoa furler at the same time.

 

{* I think it is quite OK to defer, for the shor thop down to MQ, as the rig is not in 'need' of replacement due to any obvious deterioration or \ imminent failure.  I am being precautionary due to age - it is 15 yo original - and, of course, to also keep the folks over at the insurance company on-side should any rig-related misfortune later happen. }

 

Best,

 

David

Perigee SM#396

St Maarten (outside,
  Simpsons Bay)

 

 

 

 

 

On Saturday, 7 April 2018, 21:57, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Sorry wrong subject

 

 

David,

I had the genoa furler serviced by Amel in Martinique in November.

The gears were fine however they replaced 5 bearings and 9 seals or the other way around. They also replaced the electrical wire. The cost was 1200- euros. However this was while Amel was changing my rigging.

The cost was about 10,000 euros.

You will have to pat the rigger to remove the headstay and the motor and then replace the grease in the foil and mount the motor again. I would strongly suggest you have this done. Removing the motor from the headstay is a serious project.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2018 12:57 PM
To:
amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: St Martin

 

 

Hi Porter,

 

Sorry - dropped by, but missed you..  Hope things are going well in Martinique.

 

Our standing rigging has arrived - finally.  If was made-up and shipped by ACMO in good time, but we opted to piggy-back our pallet into a container, that was scheduled for a good connection by sea-freight from Z-Spars in France to FKG here in SXM.  We saved a stack of money over air-freight (3 days), but somehow the container was delayed out of France by 4 weeks . . .   

 

Anyway, after we finish here, we will be skipping down-chain, with the mandatory stop in AMEL HQ in MQ - for a little AMEL-specific spares & service, and maybe a rig-check.  Still pondering whether to service the Genoa Furler there.

 

Anyway, hope to catch up somewhere down the track.

 

Best,

 

David

Perigee, SM#396

Back in St Maarten, after Easter in St Baarths

 

 

On Thursday, 22 March 2018, 7:35, "Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

David!  

Hello. We’re over in the IWW Marina. Provisioning and deciding on new sails. 

Looks like you’re wearing out your Visa card!!

Went to FKG yesterday. Looks like a serious outfit!!

 

What wind gen are you thinking?  

 

Please stop by if you’re  around. 

We leave probably sat or Sunday for Martinique and a haulout Tuesday. 

 

What are your Sailing plans after the refit?

Good to hear from you

 

Porter

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 


On Mar 21, 2018, at 4:01 PM,
dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Porter, 

Where are you?  We are in anchored the lagoon, Dutch side, awaiting our standing rigging, which we are doing with FKG.  Plus a host of other projects kicking in while the masts will be off (wind gen on mizzen, VHF & AIS aerials,  N2K wind sensors, cabling, new A/P, and so on).

Cheers,

David
Perigee, SM#396

 

 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

SV Perigee
 

Shaft-driven alternator
I have one of these units on Perigee, SM#396.
As a refinement of earlier set-ups described in earlier posts, according to the AMEL Owner's manual, this unit can be run at the same time as the engine, without any adverse effects.  This would be useful, for example, if the 24V alternator, or the external 'smart' regulator, becomes unserviceable.
To use this unit, one has the engine running in neutral, then selects reverse at idle.  This extends the blades (of the Bruton's Autoprop).  An electrical switch at the helm is then selected, which activates an electro-mechanical lock to prevent the shaft-brake from closing when the engine is shut-down.  This switch also energises the alternator.  The engine is then shut-down, but the shaft remains free to rotate.
The shaft drives a 40A/24V alternator via a geared pulley.  The unit starts producing useable power at about 6 knots STW - below this, the charge required to excite the alternator is greater than the current produced.  At about 7.5kt, we are almost covering routine loads (A/P, 3x fridges, LGTs, NAV STN + digital radar).  At 8kt and above, we are seeing a slow charging of the battery bank.
I see a drop in speed of about 0.5 to 1.0 knot, so do not normally run the unit if time/speed is a consideration, and also not normally below sustained 7kt STW.  Below this, the speed penalty, as a percentage of achievable speed, does not make it worthwhile.

The only downside is that one can hear the alternator whirring away.  I guess there could be an issue of lack of cooling water for the gearbox cooler (YANMAR not running = no raw-water pump); but I have seen it somewhere that the Hurth ZF box can, by design, accept up to 75hp (or thereabouts) without cooling.  I haven't run the numbers, but the 175A/24V high-output alternator take off about 5HP, so think that the shaft-driven alternator would be relatively insignificant in this regard. 
Another issue may be the life of wearing-out bearings, which should be replaced every 900 hours engine running-time.  But so far, we have not seen a problem, but it is early days yet.  I have not heard about any problems of this nature being experienced by other owners running their shaft generator, so do not count the hours being run by the shaft-driven alternator.

BTW, when we did our initial post-purchase round of repairs & maintenance, we did take the precaution of changing out the drive-belt for the shaft-driven alternator, the old belt now held in spares.  But there was no need seen/heard to overhaul the alternator bearings.  But one of these days.
DavidPerigee, SM#396St Maarten

On Sunday, 8 April 2018, 11:28, David Vogel <dbv_au@...> wrote:


Greetings all.
And thanks for the discussion on these topics.

Answering firstly aspects of the wind generator.

I am about to mount our new wind-gen on top of the mizzen.  I was concerned about the weight of a D400 up there.  This siting chosen for best wind speed & clean air, giving maximum output for any given conditions.

I decided upon a Rutland 1200, weighing less than 8kg, vs 17kg for the D400.  Roughly the same power output curve.  Even though this is a relatively new unit (launched 2016), having spoken to owners and listened to installed units, nothing adverse to be heard on either of these fronts. Any support issues have by all accounts been resolved quickly by Marlec UK.

An extra benefit of this unit, is that the included charge controller is a MPPT unit, which also accepts input from up to 500W of solar panels (@24V) - reducing the problems of voltage mis-match than can occur when combining charging sources.  Although this does introduce a single-point-of-failure, having a standard Victron or blue-Sky controller on-hand might alleviate this to some extent.
Another decision point was that the Rutland units puts 'wild' or raw AC down the past, minimising voltage losses that might otherwise be incurred for mounting at the top of the mizzen, compared to a unit that puts out already-rectified DC down the wire.

The unit is a 'maintenance/service free' so, apart from new bearing every 5-7-10 years, hopefully nothing to be done there. 

One downside is that, in the event of needing to fix a broken unit, or in the event of forecast high winds, getting the unit down could be a handful.
Any insights on how to quickly and easily do this (from a bosun's chair and using standard rigging equipment) gratefully accepted.
DavidPerigee SM#396St Maarten


On Sunday, 8 April 2018, 9:19, "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


  Thanks Danny.Greatly appreciated.Best Regards,Jeff


On Sun, Apr 08, 2018 at 12:33 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


  Hi Jeff,the comments were on this forum a few months ago, probably directed at wind generators in general but he had a D 400 he would have been pleased to dispose of. I did wonder if there was something wrong with his install as he had had trouble getting it to work at all.  For the replacement in the first instance I communicated with Super Wind in Germany to discuss possible servicing options. They were incredibly helpful sending me detailed annotated drawings and diagrams showing tests and then instructions on dismantling. In the event we found the housing worn from failing bearings. After 9 years continuous service you might expect that. So I went with the replacement. As I had installed the original with a knowledgeable technician I needed no help there. The owners manual provided has quite detailed instructions, clear, concise and understandable. It is a bit of a trick lifting the unit onto the top of the mizzen from the bosuns chair. If you go down this path Ill tell you my method. As to advice, you could do no better than contact Klaus Krieger at Super Wind even if you buy elsewhere although they are happy to ship. You will need the stop switch, two fuses, the controller and the dump elements as well as the generator. I got my originals all at once at the Annapolis  boat show and the extras were usable with the new unit.Kind RegardsDannySM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 08 April 2018 at 13:56 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@opt online.net [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

   

Will do.I'm  surprised at any negative comments on the d400. I've only heard good things. I need to educate myself on the different components involved. what dealer did you use, and how was their support in helping on the install?I thought Ocean Energy's people were extremely knowledgeable and helpful, however they don't offer any wind generating systems, only solar and hydro.I'm skeptical on the hydro, due to my thoughts previously expressed..Thanks for answering my questions.Best Regards,Jeff

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 08:21 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


  
Hi Jeff,Weight: Superwind 11.5 kg D 400 17 kg or 33% heavier. At the top of a mast that is significant. Output. Superwind is rated for 350 watts and the D400 400 watts. I have been happy with the output from my Superwind, I have read on the forum an owners scathing comments about the lack of out put from a D400. Perhaps we had different expectations. As I said before. Not much output below 10 knots apparent, 15 knots quite good, 20 knots plus, terrific. When the batteries are full the Superwind diverts to two heater type elements to absorb the surplus, means you don't have to monitor the battery status. Its whole design is aimed to independent long term operation. The new 353 model is even more robust designed to withstand ice falls. The output is the same. I saw no reason to change. Google them, they have a good web site.RegardsDanny
On 08 April 2018 at 10:08 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

  
Danny,It helps a lot. The rail mounting was recommended by someone else, who contacted me directly. Never thought of that, and it makes a lot of sense. Outside the rail wiring isn't a major asthetically disturbing concept. I think that the wiring through the locker is also a good idea.What is the weight comparison between the super wind and the d400? Any idea?What are the output specs comparatively? Any idea?A plate to mount the wind generator on top of the mizzen attaching it to the existing extruding plate sounds like an excellent option.  When I return to the boat later this month, I'm going to envision the options and get a better feel for the actual deployment. I greatly appreciate your feedback.Best Regards,Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 03:44 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


  
Hi Jeff, The top of the Mizzen has a flat plate on it that extends beyond the extrusion. When we bought Ocean Pearl it had a hole at each corner. We made the mast for the wind generator with a matching plate that we bolted to the top of the mast with a strip of 3mm thick rubber between the two plates. Any wind generator you mount on the top of the mizzen must not need servicing or physical stopping, for obvious reasons. It must be vibration free, some will make the mizzen mast sing, and it must be genuinely quiet.. The D400 was one I looked at closely when we bought ours at the Annapolis boat show. We went around and around looking at all the options. The D400 is very bulky and heavy and I didn't like its clumsy swing to the side feathering in strong winds which is achieved by having a very short tailOur wind generator is German made Super Wind. It is designed for remote locations and needs no service. I described its feathering and silence in my previous. After 9 years with no need for service at any time the bearings were worn and we replaced it this year. The technology remains the same. I contacted the company in Germany and they could not have been more helpful. We bought the replacement unit from and agent in New Zealand. I posted photos of the mast and month or two back while it was off for the change. Sadly I recently deleted them from my camera.Solar panels. We have two 130 watt 12 volt panels linked together to give 24 volts, hence just 130 watts. We got them at Island Water world in St Maarten and they provided a clamp system that we used to attach them to the port side rail just aft of the cockpit, about 1/3 in 2/3 out if you get my meaning.Thy sit happily there and are easy to swing up out of harms way when docking.  Because I thought this may be a temporary site I surface ran the wiring down a staunchon across the deck, up and over the coaming and into the big cockpit locker and from there to the batteries via appropriate fuses and a controller. It has worked so well and is so unobtrusive we have left them there for 9 years. A cheap as chips solution and added benefit, works well. The surface mounted wiring is just not noticed so I've left that too I have in the past posted photos.Hope this helpsRegardsDanny. 
On 08 April 2018 at 00:33 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

  
Danny,A couple questions if you don't mind.How did you mount the wind generator? What type is it? Have you heard of the d400, and any thoughts on it? How large, and where did you mount your solar panels?  9 years is a long time, and I have to assume that improvements have been made on the technology of both the wind and solar components. With that said, you seem to have a great combination that have got the job done with flying colors! That is amazing battery life, and speaks to an opitimal generating efficiency. Bravo!Best Regards,Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:19 AM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


  
Hi Paul. I'll repeat my thoughts from past posts. We have had for 9 years a super wind generator on top of the mizzen.  mast. There is no vibration and no noise. It cannot be heard.. It has mechanially auto feathering blades and a stop switch which because of the auto feathering never needs to be used in strong winds. It never has to be used because of the sensibilities of night wstch crew or marins neighbours because you cant hear it.I agree. Under 10 knots apparent wind the charge is slight. 15 knots good. 20 knots plus terrific. We only have 130 watts solar plus the 350 watt wind generator. I like having my bases covered. Sunny and windless ok. Windy and cloudy. Ok. Windy and sunny. Wow. Hiwever it was never my desire to be able to run all my high draw systems on these secondary chargers. I did not want to cross oceeans relying on diesel engines for my electrcity. Mid ocean storms can go for days with heavy cloud cover. Hence the wind gen. If i lost diesel generation i wanted to be able to keep my esential eletronics going. I could live without air con etc. As an aside. In my experience electric auto helms are not big current users. Radar is as are inverters. Auto helms should not be set too finely.. A little bit of wandering does no harm and use a lot less juice.Lastly I attribute the 8 years I got from.my flooded lead acid batteries to the combination of wind generator and solar. I thrashed them at times but mostly that constant charge looked after themRegardsDannyAM 299Ocean Pearl


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>Date: 7/04/18 01:38 (GMT+12:00)To: amelyachtowners@...: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator
  
Paul, We have an Air Breeze generator.. It is okay, not great.  It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch. This is also a big plus when at dock.. When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.  On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds. Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.  With best regards, Mark SkipperSailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275Currently cruising - Guadeloupewww.creampuff.us From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator  We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice? Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259  
 
 

 


 

 

 


 

 

 


 


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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upwind with staysail

paul.cooper74@...
 

Yes, I would not add a staysail, but the issue is that there are boats for sale with and without them so I am trying to get some real data about pros and cons to help me make decisions.  And I am getting exactly that here on this forum.  thanks.  

Re: Wind or Water generator

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Many thanks to Thomas for his report on the Watt&Sea.  I had much higher expectations, based on all the adverts and testimonials one often reads about.

With regard to Ian's comments that the Santorin, Maramu, and early SM had the hydrogenerator, it should be mentioned that as late as 2002, it could be ordered on the Super Maramu 2000 during production. 

So Peregrinus has one, for example.  At 4 knots, it produces nothing.  From about 5.5 knots, it will supply the boat's consumers (autopilot, etc.), so it will maintain charge, but if you want to see a 10A charge going to the batteries, you need to be doing 7 knots or more.  We don't really rely on it, but on an ocean crossing it could save your bacon if other power sources become disabled somehow.

Cheerio,

Peregrinus
at anchor, Siracusa (Italy)

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

SV Perigee
 

Greetings all.

And thanks for the discussion on these topics.

Answering firstly aspects of the wind generator.

I am about to mount our new wind-gen on top of the mizzen.  I was concerned about the weight of a D400 up there.  This siting chosen for best wind speed & clean air, giving maximum output for any given conditions.

I decided upon a Rutland 1200, weighing less than 8kg, vs 17kg for the D400.  Roughly the same power output curve.  Even though this is a relatively new unit (launched 2016), having spoken to owners and listened to installed units, nothing adverse to be heard on either of these fronts. Any support issues have by all accounts been resolved quickly by Marlec UK.

An extra benefit of this unit, is that the included charge controller is a MPPT unit, which also accepts input from up to 500W of solar panels (@24V) - reducing the problems of voltage mis-match than can occur when combining charging sources.  Although this does introduce a single-point-of-failure, having a standard Victron or blue-Sky controller on-hand might alleviate this to some extent.

Another decision point was that the Rutland units puts 'wild' or raw AC down the past, minimising voltage losses that might otherwise be incurred for mounting at the top of the mizzen, compared to a unit that puts out already-rectified DC down the wire.

The unit is a 'maintenance/service free' so, apart from new bearing every 5-7-10 years, hopefully nothing to be done there. 

One downside is that, in the event of needing to fix a broken unit, or in the event of forecast high winds, getting the unit down could be a handful.

Any insights on how to quickly and easily do this (from a bosun's chair and using standard rigging equipment) gratefully accepted.

David
Perigee SM#396
St Maarten


On Sunday, 8 April 2018, 9:19, "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Thanks Danny.
Greatly appreciated.
Best Regards,
Jeff


On Sun, Apr 08, 2018 at 12:33 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
Hi Jeff,
the comments were on this forum a few months ago, probably directed at wind generators in general but he had a D 400 he would have been pleased to dispose of. I did wonder if there was something wrong with his install as he had had trouble getting it to work at all. 
For the replacement in the first instance I communicated with Super Wind in Germany to discuss possible servicing options. They were incredibly helpful sending me detailed annotated drawings and diagrams showing tests and then instructions on dismantling. In the event we found the housing worn from failing bearings. After 9 years continuous service you might expect that. So I went with the replacement. As I had installed the original with a knowledgeable technician I needed no help there. The owners manual provided has quite detailed instructions, clear, concise and understandable. It is a bit of a trick lifting the unit onto the top of the mizzen from the bosuns chair. If you go down this path Ill tell you my method. As to advice, you could do no better than contact Klaus Krieger at Super Wind even if you buy elsewhere although they are happy to ship. You will need the stop switch, two fuses, the controller and the dump elements as well as the generator. I got my originals all at once at the Annapolis  boat show and the extras were usable with the new unit.
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 08 April 2018 at 13:56 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@opt online.net [amelyachtowners]" wrote:

 
 

Will do.
I'm  surprised at any negative comments on the d400. I've only heard good things. 
I need to educate myself on the different components involved. what dealer did you use, and how was their support in helping on the install?
I thought Ocean Energy's people were extremely knowledgeable and helpful, however they don't offer any wind generating systems, only solar and hydro.
I'm skeptical on the hydro, due to my thoughts previously expressed..
Thanks for answering my questions.
Best Regards,
Jeff

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 08:21 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 
Hi Jeff,
Weight: Superwind 11.5 kg D 400 17 kg or 33% heavier. At the top of a mast that is significant. Output. Superwind is rated for 350 watts and the D400 400 watts. I have been happy with the output from my Superwind, I have read on the forum an owners scathing comments about the lack of out put from a D400. Perhaps we had different expectations. As I said before. Not much output below 10 knots apparent, 15 knots quite good, 20 knots plus, terrific. When the batteries are full the Superwind diverts to two heater type elements to absorb the surplus, means you don't have to monitor the battery status. Its whole design is aimed to independent long term operation. The new 353 model is even more robust designed to withstand ice falls. The output is the same. I saw no reason to change. Google them, they have a good web site.
Regards
Danny
On 08 April 2018 at 10:08 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:

 
 
Danny,
It helps a lot. The rail mounting was recommended by someone else, who contacted me directly. Never thought of that, and it makes a lot of sense. Outside the rail wiring isn't a major asthetically disturbing concept. 
I think that the wiring through the locker is also a good idea.
What is the weight comparison between the super wind and the d400? Any idea?
What are the output specs comparatively? Any idea?
A plate to mount the wind generator on top of the mizzen attaching it to the existing extruding plate sounds like an excellent option.  
When I return to the boat later this month, I'm going to envision the options and get a better feel for the actual deployment. 
I greatly appreciate your feedback.
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 03:44 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 
Hi Jeff, The top of the Mizzen has a flat plate on it that extends beyond the extrusion. When we bought Ocean Pearl it had a hole at each corner. We made the mast for the wind generator with a matching plate that we bolted to the top of the mast with a strip of 3mm thick rubber between the two plates. Any wind generator you mount on the top of the mizzen must not need servicing or physical stopping, for obvious reasons. It must be vibration free, some will make the mizzen mast sing, and it must be genuinely quiet.. The D400 was one I looked at closely when we bought ours at the Annapolis boat show. We went around and around looking at all the options. The D400 is very bulky and heavy and I didn't like its clumsy swing to the side feathering in strong winds which is achieved by having a very short tail
Our wind generator is German made Super Wind. It is designed for remote locations and needs no service. I described its feathering and silence in my previous. After 9 years with no need for service at any time the bearings were worn and we replaced it this year. The technology remains the same. I contacted the company in Germany and they could not have been more helpful. We bought the replacement unit from and agent in New Zealand. I posted photos of the mast and month or two back while it was off for the change. Sadly I recently deleted them from my camera.
Solar panels. We have two 130 watt 12 volt panels linked together to give 24 volts, hence just 130 watts. We got them at Island Water world in St Maarten and they provided a clamp system that we used to attach them to the port side rail just aft of the cockpit, about 1/3 in 2/3 out if you get my meaning.Thy sit happily there and are easy to swing up out of harms way when docking.  Because I thought this may be a temporary site I surface ran the wiring down a staunchon across the deck, up and over the coaming and into the big cockpit locker and from there to the batteries via appropriate fuses and a controller. It has worked so well and is so unobtrusive we have left them there for 9 years. A cheap as chips solution and added benefit, works well. The surface mounted wiring is just not noticed so I've left that too I have in the past posted photos.
Hope this helps
Regards
Danny
On 08 April 2018 at 00:33 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:

 
 
Danny,
A couple questions if you don't mind.
How did you mount the wind generator? What type is it? Have you heard of the d400, and any thoughts on it? How large, and where did you mount your solar panels?  9 years is a long time, and I have to assume that improvements have been made on the technology of both the wind and solar components. With that said, you seem to have a great combination that have got the job done with flying colors! That is amazing battery life, and speaks to an opitimal generating efficiency. Bravo!
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14



On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:19 AM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 
Hi Paul. I'll repeat my thoughts from past posts. We have had for 9 years a super wind generator on top of the mizzen.  mast. There is no vibration and no noise. It cannot be heard.. It has mechanially auto feathering blades and a stop switch which because of the auto feathering never needs to be used in strong winds. It never has to be used because of the sensibilities of night wstch crew or marins neighbours because you cant hear it.
I agree. Under 10 knots apparent wind the charge is slight. 15 knots good. 20 knots plus terrific. We only have 130 watts solar plus the 350 watt wind generator. I like having my bases covered. Sunny and windless ok. Windy and cloudy. Ok. Windy and sunny. Wow. Hiwever it was never my desire to be able to run all my high draw systems on these secondary chargers. I did not want to cross oceeans relying on diesel engines for my electrcity. Mid ocean storms can go for days with heavy cloud cover. Hence the wind gen. If i lost diesel generation i wanted to be able to keep my esential eletronics going. I could live without air con etc. As an aside. In my experience electric auto helms are not big current users. Radar is as are inverters. Auto helms should not be set too finely.. A little bit of wandering does no harm and use a lot less juice.
Lastly I attribute the 8 years I got from.my flooded lead acid batteries to the combination of wind generator and solar. I thrashed them at times but mostly that constant charge looked after them
Regards
Danny
AM 299
Ocean Pearl



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: 7/04/18 01:38 (GMT+12:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 
 
Paul,
 
We have an Air Breeze generator.. It is okay, not great.
 
It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch. This is also a big plus when at dock..
 
When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.
 
On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds.
 
Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Guadeloupe
www.creampuff.us
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator
 
 
We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.
I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.
Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice?
 
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 

 
 
 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 bilge alarm feedback

SV Perigee
 

Greets,

Yes, I also had a 'learning experience' with the SM grey-water bilge pump not working - discovered by chance when opening the engine-room hatch to hear the engine running, only to see fresh-water visible lapping at the top of the bilge.  This happened during pre-purchase sea-trial, running all of the freshwater faucets together.

The prior owner had taken the precaution of adding another high-water alarm, and another bilge pump located at the head/top of the grey-water bilge in the engine-room.  However, when running the extra hose from the new pump, this was run alongside the grey plastic tube/chamber containing the float switch for the regular electric bilge pump.  The hose from the new bilge-pump had been installed so as to foul the horizontal pin that centers the float as it goes up and down, thereby preventing the float from rising, and hence the main bilge-pump could never switch on.  At the same time, the new switch for the extra bilge pump had failed - it was one of those switches without an external lever to test the functioning OK.  It was an insightful moment.

The fix for the fouled float switch was easy - re-route the new outflow piping away from the grey plastic housing.

The old switch was replaced with a new RULE-A-MATIC PLUS, which has the lever to test that it is working.

The routine bilge-check now includes checking full & free movement of the original float (fill the bilge with water), plus manually flicking the levers on the 3 float switches for the secondary bilge-pump and the two engine-room high-water alarms.

BTW, both the secondary high-water alarm and bilge-pump are powered independent of the 24V circuit board, by-passing the main battery switch.  The secondary high-water alarm is powered from the 12V starter battery, providing another level of redundancy.  Finally, I hold an extra 24V rule-a-matic float switch in spares.

Next: install those extra high-water alarms for the rudder bilge, the under-floor compartment in-front of the stove, and the bilge outside the forward head (am I missing any areas?).  Good idea to put in a 'silence' switch for the aural alarms, but I wonder if this introduces the 'human element'.

Best,

David
Perigee, SM#396
St Maarten


On Sunday, 8 April 2018, 9:19, "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Peter,
On the outside of the switch. I replaced the original. It's easy enough to do, and it certainly is easier then wiring a switch into the circuit. 
I have no idea why a bilge pump switch would be made without a test lever.
Jeff


On Sun, Apr 08, 2018 at 02:31 AM, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
Jeff,

Where is the test lever for bilge alarm?

Peter Forbes
Carango
Bermuda 


On 7 Apr 2018, at 23:05, JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Thomas,
There should be a test lever to raise the float to set off the alarm to test it.
As to moving the switch, remember, offshore you are rocking and rolling often, so if you move the alarm, you may be hearing it more often then you'd like. I've had mine go off a few times, due to various issues, in various conditions, and never felt the water level compromised any pumps or other engine room components. 
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 07:18 PM, 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
Hi all,

Today's maintenance task was testing the bilge alarm. We had heard recently of at least one 54 owner who found out the hard way it didn't work. So it was high on the list and, sure enough, the test failed. It turned out the buzzer was dead and the lamp burnt within 5s. The floater trigger worked ok. 

So we replaced the light bulb and the buzzer. We heard the original buzzer in a friend's SM2K and the new one and they are equally loud. 
Which made me think I'd like to add a 3 way switch to test/silence it, as it would be pretty counterproductive/unsettling to have the siren scream while troubleshooting why you're sinking. 

I also thought the position of the floater trigger in the bilge to be rather high. A few components (pumps, engine, c drive) would have their feet wet before it triggers. So thinking of relocating it lower in the sump, while not compromising access/maintenability.

Any thoughts?

Test your testers!

Fair winds 


Thomas 
GARULFO
A54 #122
Saint Martin, FWI


Re: My first bow thruster service...

Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)
 

Thanks for the help and setting me straight regarding the sizes. I have the correct o-rings on the way now. Florida Bearings were helpful and could help with the lip seals/o-rings/bearings but not the neoprene seals.

I read the original post again and was curious about the spring being removed vs intact for the lip seal on the retracting shaft. Should it be removed before installation? The old seal I took out had the spring but it was severely corroded and there wasn't much left of it (perhaps the reason it's removed?). Probably not a big deal either way but curious if anyone has a definitive answer.

Mike
SV Trilogy SM#23
Ft. Lauderdale

---In amelyachtowners@..., <sangaris@...> wrote :

Hi Mike,
You can get the O rings and Neoprene seals in Ft Lauderdale at Florida Bearings - A Kaman Company; 2686 SW 36th St; 954-462-0825 (they've moved from Broward Ave).

O rings go by ID and CS (Cross Sectional Diameter) so your 78 X 3 would have an 84mm OD. Size charts show it as a 3.0X78.  US sizing is different and a close match would be a Size 151 at 2.62mm X 75.87mm.

Good luck with it.  
Craig Briggs SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <svtrilogy53@...> wrote :

Hi Bill,

I'm also servicing my bow thruster for the first time. Wondering how yours went and whether you decided to use RTV everywhere? 

I'm also trying to figure out what the proper size is for the o-rings. Parts lists I've seen show 78 x 3 mm and 40 x 2.5 mm. Are the 78 and 40 the inner or outer diameters?

Also, any advice on where to find the 10mm neoprene seals? We're currently in the Fort Lauderdale area. Was thinking of getting a 10mm sheet and cutting seals from that.

Thanks,
Mike
SV Trilogy SM#23

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 bilge alarm feedback

greatketch@...
 

I always test my high level alarm with actual high water level.  It is easy, I just unplug the bilge pump while doing a load of laundry :)  It is a good time to test the manual bilge pump too.

If you rely on a lever to lift the float as your test, it is true you test most parts of the system, but what happens if the float has cracked and no longer floats? Your test would pass, but...

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Big Grand Cay, Abacos, Bahamas