Date   

Re: Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Craig Briggs
 

Coincidentally, SAIL Magazine just posted an article on this exact subject with Tom Cunliffe's solution that I've copied below:

manifoldTip02
 

When I bought my boat it had 18 through-hull fittings. To reduce the number of holes in the hull (I ultimately cut them by half), I first re-plumbed the drain hoses from my sinks, scuppers, bilge pumps and shower sump so that they could share many fewer outlets. I then removed the remaining unused fittings, feathered back the holes inside and out with an angle grinder, and filled them by layering on a succession of round fiberglass patches of increasing diameter.

I also reduced the number of intake seacocks to just two—one for the engine’s raw-water intake and one that I plumbed to a manifold that services every other appliance that uses seawater. On my boat this includes the galley sink foot pump, the toilet intake, the watermaker, the deck wash-down pump and a short bilge sump wash-down hose. I made my manifold from off-the-shelf PVC tubes and valves and installed a sea strainer between the seacock and the manifold. It has functioned perfectly for six years now.

Note that if you install a simple manifold, as opposed to a sea chest, to service multiple systems, the through-hull must be large enough to meet the likely maximum demand. A sea chest, which has a tank (capacity is typically a gallon or more), can more easily accommodate surge loads when more than one system is drawing water at the same time. —Tom Cunliffe

--
SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: New rub rail inserts

Craig Briggs
 

Just to add minor notes to Pat McAneny's post, this new insert perfectly matches my old SN insert (identical to the SM insert)  and absolutely looks far better in off-white. Being made of EPDM it will stand up to UV and will not chalk up like the originals. They're made by Techno Rubber Industries in Miami and I visited their plant for an "eyes on" - they're a family business that's the "real deal".  You can Google them for a look-see.

Installation is easily accomplished with a spray bottle of water and dish detergent plus a blunt "pusher". I used a hand held 1/4" socket driver (without a socket) as pusher. Here's a pic - the tool is lying on the deck, but anything similar will work - it does take some force to work the inside edge of the insert down against the outside of the cap rail.

It will take you 5 minutes to remove the old insert - just pry up one end and pull - and about an hour per side to install the new.  Amel carved away the bottom section of the originals in the areas of the chainplates and you'll need to copy that on this new one. 

Before installing the new insert,  I'd recommend taking the time to wash out the empty channel as it really accumulates dirt and then clean and wax the hull and rub rail, patching any gelcoat nicks you may have.

I think it will be a super improvement and Joel says to add 15% to your asking price when you sell. (Well, maybe not an exact quote, but, hey!)

Cheers, Craig - SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Jamie Wendell
 

Just an update. The original manifold on my A54 was actually copper and not bronze as I had originally thought. That explains the corrosion, since copper is lower on the galvanic scale than bronze, which is the more noble.

I am having a fabricator make up a new heavy-gauge 316 SS assembly with individual shut-off valves and a clean-out connection at the end to allow snaking in the future. Stainless may not be as good as bronze in an anaerobic environment, but I will probably be long gone before it fails I am sure. I thought about the fitting approach which would have allowed disassembly, but the original concept manifold is not that difficult to remove - if I ever have to again. I understand that stainless will likely be a bit heavier than copper, but I can deal with that.

I think others have provided good photos of the manifold, but I will be happy to send out pictures of my final installation if there is any interest in my approach.
Thanks,
Jamie
Phantom, A54 #44


Re: Mainsail outhaul on 54

Stefan Schaufert
 

Hi Nick,

yes we did this for some weeks. This is my emergency scenario if the outhaul doesn't work.
It works well (stronger then the electric motor), but it is not that comfortable (extra sheet, occupied winsch ...).
I recommend to disconnect the outhaul when you use the sheet.

Best regards
Stefan
A 54 #119 Lady Charlyette, Aruba


Re: Mainsail outhaul on 54

Arno Luijten
 

Hi,

I'm not sure how that would work. You would need to put the purchase on both sides of the outhaul to keep keep the line speed the same on both sides of he outhaul. That would give you even more problems putting enough tension on the line to prevent it from slipping the line tender. Apart from not having enough space on the boom to do this I think.

Regards,

Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121


New rub rail inserts

Patrick McAneny
 

In a previous post about a month ago I asked if any owners would like to join in a group buy of new rub rail inserts. I had several responses ,a few from as far as Australia to the Med. I urged them to contact Maud at Amel about purchasing directly from Amel ,as it would probably as cheap or probably cheaper shipping from France . The only reason I decided to have the inserts produced in the US was to save the shipping cost overseas ,which due to the size and weight was going to be approx. $1,600. not including duty. I believe we should support Amel sales when possible. I am pretty sure Amel has the inserts produced by a third party and sells them at a small mark up ,as I was unable to have them produced here any cheaper,actually about the same exact price. The only one making money is the shipping /airlines companies.
Before I and the other owners in the group buy, place our orders ,I thought I would report back to the group now that we have the insert produced to announce a (Last Call ),to see if any other owners would like to join us in purchasing new inserts.
Craig on an SN and I on a SM have both received a two foot sample of the new inserts. We both agree that it is virtually a exact copy of the original ,we both installed it on our boats and it fit perfectly . It is produced in South Florida in a very slightly off white and will be shipped from Miami. The cost is $8.90 /ft. plus approx. $128.00 for the die,which will be reduced by more buyers. For a SM that would be approx. $934. + $128. = $1,062. plus shipping to your destination. I estimated my shipping ,east coast US approx. $200.00
Apparently on newer models of the SM Amel changed the insert somewhat and I cannot say if what we have produced will or will not fit or replace the newer design. Our insert gutter is rounded ,the newer design is sort of more square. I am enclosing pictures of the sample of the new white insert as well as a cross section of my original insert for you to compare against what you now have. This production run is only possible because we have a number of buyers , this purchase is a one off ,so if you are in or close to the US and would like to replace your old inserts ,please contact me direct at sailw32@... . If you are outside of the U.S., I would urge you to contact Maud at Amel to make your purchase. I will wait until Sept. 5 for addition orders ,then the final order will be placed.
Thank You,
Pat McAneny
SM Shenanigans #123


Dowty seal on SM 302

ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

 Hello,

 I am in London, Pen Azen in Greece. When we get on board ( next month !) I will need to replace the Dowty seal on the bolt just beneath the prop,  from which drains the oil in the leg.

 Does anyone know the dimensions of the Dowty seal on that bolt ?

 Ian and Judy,
 Pen Azen, SM 302 Kilada Greece


Re: Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Courtney Gorman
 

thanks!


-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond via groups.io <southernadventurer@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io; paul.dowd@... <paul.dowd@...>
Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2020 10:10 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Hi Jamie,

I just replaced ours that was 18 years old. The original was still good when I removed it and there was very little corrosion inside the manifold. I did not like the plastic hose fitting at the raw water intake end. I could have kept the original and reinstalled but decided since I had removed it that I would have a stainless steel one manufactured. I kept the old one for a spare although I am not likely to need it myself.

I had Emek marine in Gocek, Turkey build one as they have built the stainless manifolds for numerous Amels which also have a zinc anode in the end. The price and quality of work was very good.

Attached is a photo of the installed manifold.


Inline image



Kind regards
Ross Hickey
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Currently in Turkey






Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, August 27, 2020, 4:47 pm, Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1@...> wrote:
hi guys would one of you mind sharing some photos of the problem area and your solutions?
Cheers
Courtney
Trippin
54#101


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2020 9:39 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Jamie,
 
I built a new one from off-the-shelf bronze fittings and a short piece of reinforced hose in the middle. Two years on and no problems, and it will be much easier to repair next time as it can be taken apart in the middle before pulling the parts out which is much easier than getting the original out.
 
I would also be interested if anyone else has adopted this solution and how long it has lasted.
 
Cheers,
Paul
S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jamie Wendell
Sent: 27 August 2020 14:54
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54
 
I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44

--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
 

Hi Jamie,

I just replaced ours that was 18 years old. The original was still good when I removed it and there was very little corrosion inside the manifold. I did not like the plastic hose fitting at the raw water intake end. I could have kept the original and reinstalled but decided since I had removed it that I would have a stainless steel one manufactured. I kept the old one for a spare although I am not likely to need it myself.

I had Emek marine in Gocek, Turkey build one as they have built the stainless manifolds for numerous Amels which also have a zinc anode in the end. The price and quality of work was very good.

Attached is a photo of the installed manifold.


Inline image



Kind regards
Ross Hickey
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Currently in Turkey



On Thursday, August 27, 2020, 4:47 pm, Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1@...> wrote:

hi guys would one of you mind sharing some photos of the problem area and your solutions?
Cheers
Courtney
Trippin
54#101


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2020 9:39 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Jamie,
 
I built a new one from off-the-shelf bronze fittings and a short piece of reinforced hose in the middle. Two years on and no problems, and it will be much easier to repair next time as it can be taken apart in the middle before pulling the parts out which is much easier than getting the original out.
 
I would also be interested if anyone else has adopted this solution and how long it has lasted.
 
Cheers,
Paul
S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jamie Wendell
Sent: 27 August 2020 14:54
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54
 
I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44

--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 

Jamie 
I had same issue on my SM.  I sprung a leak while sailing - a small but persistent pin hole leak in manifold base between nipples.  I applied old standby - JB Weld - as temporary fix. When I arrived at Martinique, I had new one fabricated from stainless steel.  A local machine shop copied the original.  Several other SM owners did same. Boat was 14 years old at that time.  

Ben Driver
Formerly SM 347

On Aug 27, 2020, at 5:54 AM, Jamie Wendell <mysticshadow54@...> wrote:

I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44


Re: Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Courtney Gorman
 

hi guys would one of you mind sharing some photos of the problem area and your solutions?
Cheers
Courtney
Trippin
54#101


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2020 9:39 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Jamie,
 
I built a new one from off-the-shelf bronze fittings and a short piece of reinforced hose in the middle. Two years on and no problems, and it will be much easier to repair next time as it can be taken apart in the middle before pulling the parts out which is much easier than getting the original out.
 
I would also be interested if anyone else has adopted this solution and how long it has lasted.
 
Cheers,
Paul
S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jamie Wendell
Sent: 27 August 2020 14:54
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54
 
I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44

--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Jamie,

 

I built a new one from off-the-shelf bronze fittings and a short piece of reinforced hose in the middle. Two years on and no problems, and it will be much easier to repair next time as it can be taken apart in the middle before pulling the parts out which is much easier than getting the original out.

 

I would also be interested if anyone else has adopted this solution and how long it has lasted.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jamie Wendell
Sent: 27 August 2020 14:54
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

 

I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello Jamie,

I had the same issue on my manifold. 

It looked like some kind of electric corrosion, as the worst corroded part at the fridge connector side is the point where the ground wire attaches.

I did the rebuild by brass fittings you suggest and placed at the fridge end an additional anode plug inside.

One more charme with this option is that it can be repaired with standard parts, without involving workshops.

Oliver from Vela Nautica 
A54#39 
Martinique 

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 08:54 Jamie Wendell <mysticshadow54@...> wrote:
I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44


Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Jamie Wendell
 

I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44


Mainsail outhaul on 54

ngtnewington Newington
 

Now I know this idea will be criticised by many but....

I have found that the electric motor for the outhaul on the mainsail is less powerful than I would like. It is fine in light winds but in heavy airs after reefing I often need just a bit more outhaul. I have to completely de-power the main to set the outhaul and then sheet in. This if fine and it works, but in really strong winds that motor just would not have the grunt.
So my idea is to fix a single pulley to the aft side of the outhaul and run the line through that and back to the Aft end of the boom instead of it terminating at the outhaul car.
This would give 2:1 purchase on the outhaul. Obviously when setting and putting away the sail one would need to do more outhaul button pushing than foil rolling.
I believe this would be an improvement and would only cost one block and 15m of 10mm dyneama and an easy experiment to try.
Has anyone tried this?

Nick
S/Y Amelia
AML 54-019
Lakki, Leros GR


Re: Mainsail jammed when furling on A54

ULRICH DANGELMEYER
 

Hi, Laurens,

we have long thought about which sailmaker is suitable for us.In the end, we decided on Incidences, because they took over all original cuts of the predecessor company Demme and are also internationally one of the top sailmakers also in the French racing scene. They are still the OEM for Amel which is important for us. Also as a European manufacturer in France. At the boat show in Düsseldorf we had long discussions with the specialists from Incidence and again decided to use cruising sails made of Hydranet Triradial. They explained to us that with today's material the sail can be cut a little bit bigger than the original and still remain sturdy profile without battens through the fabric.  For this we negotiated a special price at the fair. In another Amel friend with the almost same 54 (from 2008) had just as much trouble furling and ordered new sails online. It was not as expensive but he is not as happy with it as he had imagined.
To your question: the previous sails had only caused us trouble, also because they didn't have a sturdy profile anymore, and without battens it was just too baggy. There was no performance to think about. This year we didn't have the opportunity to test the new sails in practice because of the covid situation, but the easy furling into the mast alone is a great relief for us and when rolled out the sails stand very well and let us hope for a much better performance than before. In case of doubt, problem-free handling and safety is far more important to us than performance. We are cruisers and not racers, the time is over.

Hope this helps.
Happy sailing and stay safe.

Ulrich
„Soleil Bleu“ A54#088
<>


Hi Ulrich,

We’re getting also more problems with a jammed main. Probably it’s because the sails getting older and more out of shape (like most of the skippers 😜). We’re also planning new sails. Sailing with your new Incidences sails was there a drop in speed compared to your main with battens ?

Regards
Laurens Vos
Fun@Sea  - A54 -092 



Re: Engine Vibration

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Ian,
As Arno, James and Bill point out, there could be several sources but your suspicion does seem likely, notwithstanding new mounts. You can easily check if it is a bad engine mount, though. First, stand on the engine and wiggle around with your full weight. If the engine doesn't remain firmly planted you'll easily spot the failed mount(s). (Mine was really wobbly and it was the starboard rear mount!)  You can also rev up the engine and look for one side or the other to lift up, signaling a failed mount. Do it in forward and reverse to identify the bad mount.

However, it being only at high RPM and with having just installed new mounts, that seems it is something else like the suggestions to check the coupling. On my boat years after the failed mount and on two other SN's I've looked at it was loose bolts on the Vetus coupling, and that was, indeed, more noticeable at higher rpm, although there was a rattle on deacceleration.  Put a wrench on all the bolts and check if they are tight - do the same on the engine mounts while you're at it.

One other procedure I've done after popping my engine up to the cockpit to more easily do various maintenance on it is to put it back in place and just loosely tighten the mounting bolts. Then start it up, run it at low rpm in forward and reverse to let it find it's "sweet spot" and then torque up the bolts. You can do that, of course, without uncoupling it or lifting it out of the engine room. It might just let it "settle in" to where it should be.

Keep us posted - would love to hear the final diagnosis.

Craig - SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: Running back stays on A54

Sv Garulfo
 

On Garulfo, we have a variation of Arno’s solution with a knot instead of the hook and a small block to lead the tie (black and white in the pic) back to a cleat near the cockpit.



Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Raiatea, French Polynesia 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 at 09:51, Laurens Vos <laurensrineke@...> wrote:

Hi Arno,

Thanks for sharing your solution regarding the backstays.
Will try it out. But even with this solution one need to still go out the cockpit to unhook the hanging hook. 

Bill’s solution could be also working well but I’m afraid there will be too much stretch to give the mast a good support. 


Regards 
Laurens Vos 
Fun@Sea A54-92


Re: Mainsail jammed when furling on A54

Laurens Vos
 

Hi Ulrich,

We’re getting also more problems with a jammed main. Probably it’s because the sails getting older and more out of shape (like most of the skippers 😜). We’re also planning new sails. Sailing with your new Incidences sails was there a drop in speed compared to your main with battens ?

Regards
Laurens Vos
Fun@Sea  - A54 -092 


Re: Running back stays on A54

amelforme
 

Peter, my Amel 54 # 14 was the best and most satisfying boat I have ever owned. The only thing worse than selling it would have been keeping it but not being able to enjoy it in the manner it was intended for. I still like working at selling all the good used Amels I can find which gets harder every year, especially the ‘good’ part. The guy who owns it now gives it plenty of the two things boats like best, exercise and maintenance. We remain friends so all’s well that ends well.

 

All the best,

Joel

 

           JOEL F. POTTER ~ CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST, L.L.C.

                                         The Experienced AMEL Guy

UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                  Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Forbes
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 1:24 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Running back stays on A54

 

 

Joel,

 

We will meet for sure - keep in touch.

 

I can’t sell my Amel 54 I love her too much.

 

Peter 

 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 at 18:12, amelforme <jfpottercys@...> wrote:

Peter, I’ll send you that 20 quid I promised.

 

Sorry that it looks like our pub lunch in the splendid English summertime will have to wait another year.

 

Everybody say a prayer for Bill Rouse. Hurricane Laura may not be kind to Galveston Texas tonight.

 

All the best,

Joel

 

           JOEL F. POTTER ~ CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST, L.L.C.

                                         The Experienced AMEL Guy

UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                  Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Forbes
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 3:41 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Running back stays on A54

 

Arno,

 

Good solution for the running backstays, I use mine a lot because I love flying the staysail, and much like my own.

 

I agree entirely I wouldn’t want to be a member of a club which would have me as a member but this forum is, in my opinion, excellent thanks to so many great Amel sailors topped off by the brilliance of Bill Rouse and Joel Potter.

 

peter

Peter Forbes

The Old Rectory 

Farnham

Blandford

DT11 8 DE

00447836 209730

07836 209730

 

On 25 Aug 2020, at 23:21, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

The way my running backstays are rigged seems fairly handy to me.

The backstay is made from aramide/kevlar sheet with extreme little stretch. When not in use the sheet comes down from the mast to a little piece of string tied to the end of the Genua-rail ( see picture1). Originally it was just tied, but I put an old fashioned hanking hook from an old jib to the piece of string so I can click it over the backstay. Storing it like this means it is out of the way when walking on the side-deck.

<Picture1.png>



From there the backstay runs to the back of the boat to a block at the same place as where the Genua-sheet turning block resides. See picture 2 (best I have)

<Picture2.png>



Directly after the block there is a knot in the backstay, so it cannot escape the block.
When you want to use the staysail in stronger winds (12+ knots) you unhook the hanking hook and pull the knot at the end of the backstay untill you can use the tail to put it on the small winch. Pull the backstay tight with a little tension on it, using the winch. Now  you can deploy the staysail. The sheet for the staysail will use the winch at the other side so there is no conflict at winch utilization. You don't use the lee-side backstay as it can/will rub the main sail.


Hope this is clear....

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna
A54-121








--

Best wishes

Peter Forbes

+44 (0) 7836 209730