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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Perkins M 4 .154 engine repairs, rescheduling trip

James Alton
 

Christian Alby,

   I have been keeping my eye out for a replacement pump for you but so far no luck.  I think that you are correct that the worn pump is at least part of what is causing the lower than normal oil pressure.  The sudden drop of oil pressure to 0 when you reach 2000 RPM is very strange and I have been pondering a possible cause.  It makes me think that somehow the pump gear has sopped stopped turning.    Did you notice if any of the gears on your oil pump are pinned to the shaft?  I have seen some oil pumps secured with pins but am not sure about the Perkins 4.154, hence this is just an educated guess.  If one of these pins were to shear from the engine runaway and lack of lubrication which you said occurred when the engine failed,  you might still have enough friction present to drive the pump gear at low engine speeds but it could then begin to slip.  Replacement of that pin (if it exists) might solve the problem with the sudden loss of oil pressure.   Please let me know if you someday figure out what is the actual cause of this sudden loss of oil pressure.   I will post here if I am able to find another pump.   Can you tell me from your research if the non-marine version of the 4-154 has the same oil pump as your engine?

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Jan 23, 2018, at 8:15 AM, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Miles,

The  voice of Volvo D2/55 la 3 fold 
Available immediatly in Martinique.
Do not want a turbo on my marine engine, useless & more prone to failures.
Recent model , widely spread, will find parts for a while.

Against volvo
Tied up with agents for service & parts.
Price ...

I still might give up on replacement here in martinique & keep on looking for an oil pump to do repairs, then sail to better deal location.

Note : old faithful M 4.154 is still reliable & so easy to run & maintain. Regrets 

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in le Marin Martinique.






Le mar., janv. 23, 2018 à 8:37, smiles bernard smilesbernard@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :
 

Hi there Christian

As a fellow maramu owner with an older engine I’d be interested in your thoughts about the Volvo D2/55 as a replacement vs other alternatives. 

Size, simplicity, cost etc? What led you to choose the Volvo?

Many thanks and best wishes 

Miles


On 21 Jan 2018, at 14:29, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks for concern & assistance Bill
guess all the advice & analysis of fault helped me come to the conclusion (already uderstood & applied before) that there is no shortcut when repairing engines or sailing boats. 
Oil pump is at fault - 100% sure
camshaft is unllikely eve though showing some wear on,poppets.

I am now in Le Marin, waiting for a firm quote on one Volvo D2/55 available for fit up ... on solution even though unplanned this year;
I am also looking for one Perkins Oil pump .... could replace in situ at no great cost & would postpone replacement by new engine to 2019 
or back to Europ in April & do a change over of engines with Perkins or else ... Selling back my 'Old Faithful'

fair winds 
chrsitian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - Le Marin Martinique



Le ‎dimanche‎ ‎31‎ ‎décembre‎ ‎2017‎ ‎12‎:‎53‎:‎11‎ ‎-04, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :


 


Christian,

I am afraid I have no good ideas that match your symptoms!  Since you have both the gauge and alarm reporting low pressure, I have to assume it is real and not a problem with the measurement.

Sometimes low oil level can cause low pressure at high rpm as the pump sucks so much oil out of the crankcase it sucks air, but you checked that.

A stuck open pressure relief valve that resets itself when the engine shuts down could be an an issue, but that seems unlikely.

Maybe someone else has an idea or two...  in any event do let us know what the solution turns out to be!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Key West, FL



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Here is

Yes - oil pressure gauge and l'os pressure alarme on
When oil pressure below  1 bar, alarme nées
Oil pressure drops quickly at 2000 rpm
Oil pressure remains stable when low or normal
Oil pressure remains low when reducing speed from 2000 

No loss of oil single de started.  
Ran 1hour maneuvring in port at 1300 rpm at 2 bars, went To idle after 1 hour at 700 rpm with 1.1 bar oil pressure.
Did  not  risk acceleration. 

Thks for assiste

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Mindelo Carbo Verde




Le dim., déc. 31, 2017 à 14:58, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :
 

Losing oil pressure at high RPM and having it come back at low RPM is a bit of a puzzle to me.  There are ways it can happen, but they are a bit exotic


Do you have an oil pressure gauge AND an low oil pressure alarm?  
If so, is the gauge showing low pressure AND you get an alarm?  
Does the oil pressure drop quickly at 2000RPM or does it drift down slowly?  
Is it stable, or does it bounce around?
Does it come back quickly when you reduce the RPM, or does it stay low?
Oh no...MOLD

Duane Siegfri
 

We have mold all over the backrest in the midship cabin, and to a lesser extent in the forward cabin.  I tried two mold removers with partial success, but we still have spots.  Amazon's Mildew Stain Away and Concrobrim Mold Control.  Amazon's works quite a bit better but only removed 3/4's of the stain.    


We had gear piled up against the backrests resulting in dead air.  We kept the cabinet doors open and they appear to be clear of mold.


We thought about following the mold removal products with a carpet cleaner, but I'm doubting that would remove the mold.


Any ideas would be appreciated.




Thanks,

Duane

Wanderer, SM#477
Re: Pump out of black water

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 


Much easier method - if the hull is still white under the vent, the tank is not yet full  

---In amelyachtowners@..., <karkauai@...> wrote :

Hi all,
I'm also looking for a way to monitor holding tank levels. There are several monitors that use capacitance sensors that connect to the outside of the tank. Here's an example:

https://tankedge.com/products.html

Has anyone tried these?

Does anyone know the thickness of the tank walls?
Are they solid fiberglass?

Here's another suggestion that involves screws through the walls:
"I put small stainless steel self-tappers through the side at strategic levels and then used the conductivity of the contents to feed a small amount of current to transistors which in turn switched on LEDs."

Any other ideas?

Thanks for any ideas.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy
Ft Lauderdale, FL USA
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Colour code gelcoat hull SM 2K

Ian Park
 

No. Ivoire is the colour for the deck and cockpit. I think it was used to reduce the glare you get from a white deck. I’ve used a standard white on hull repairs with a fair enough match.

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN 96
Guadaloupe
Rebuilding main furler gearbox

Patrick McAneny
 

I want to rebuild my mainsail manual gearbox . In the photo section there is helpful photos placed on there by Sailor63109 , I believe . I would like to contact them with a couple of questions about sourcing bearings , etc. , if you read this could you contact me at sailw32@... or thru the Amel site.

Thanks,

Pat SM Shenanigans
Re :Re: Re :[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Perkins M 4 .154 engine repairs, rescheduling trip

christian alby <calbyy@...>
 

Miles,
The  voice of Volvo D2/55 la 3 fold 
Available immediatly in Martinique.
Do not want a turbo on my marine engine, useless & more prone to failures.
Recent model , widely spread, will find parts for a while.

Against volvo
Tied up with agents for service & parts.
Price ...

I still might give up on replacement here in martinique & keep on looking for an oil pump to do repairs, then sail to better deal location.

Note : old faithful M 4.154 is still reliable & so easy to run & maintain. Regrets 

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in le Marin Martinique.



Le mar., janv. 23, 2018 à 8:37, smiles bernard smilesbernard@... [amelyachtowners]
a écrit :
 

Hi there Christian

As a fellow maramu owner with an older engine I’d be interested in your thoughts about the Volvo D2/55 as a replacement vs other alternatives. 

Size, simplicity, cost etc? What led you to choose the Volvo?

Many thanks and best wishes 

Miles


On 21 Jan 2018, at 14:29, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks for concern & assistance Bill
guess all the advice & analysis of fault helped me come to the conclusion (already uderstood & applied before) that there is no shortcut when repairing engines or sailing boats. 
Oil pump is at fault - 100% sure
camshaft is unllikely eve though showing some wear on,poppets.

I am now in Le Marin, waiting for a firm quote on one Volvo D2/55 available for fit up ... on solution even though unplanned this year;
I am also looking for one Perkins Oil pump .... could replace in situ at no great cost & would postpone replacement by new engine to 2019 
or back to Europ in April & do a change over of engines with Perkins or else ... Selling back my 'Old Faithful'

fair winds 
chrsitian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - Le Marin Martinique



Le ‎dimanche‎ ‎31‎ ‎décembre‎ ‎2017‎ ‎12‎:‎53‎:‎11‎ ‎-04, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :


 


Christian,

I am afraid I have no good ideas that match your symptoms!  Since you have both the gauge and alarm reporting low pressure, I have to assume it is real and not a problem with the measurement.

Sometimes low oil level can cause low pressure at high rpm as the pump sucks so much oil out of the crankcase it sucks air, but you checked that.

A stuck open pressure relief valve that resets itself when the engine shuts down could be an an issue, but that seems unlikely.

Maybe someone else has an idea or two...  in any event do let us know what the solution turns out to be!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Key West, FL



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Here is

Yes - oil pressure gauge and l'os pressure alarme on
When oil pressure below  1 bar, alarme nées
Oil pressure drops quickly at 2000 rpm
Oil pressure remains stable when low or normal
Oil pressure remains low when reducing speed from 2000 

No loss of oil single de started.  
Ran 1hour maneuvring in port at 1300 rpm at 2 bars, went To idle after 1 hour at 700 rpm with 1.1 bar oil pressure.
Did  not  risk acceleration. 

Thks for assiste

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Mindelo Carbo Verde




Le dim., déc. 31, 2017 à 14:58, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :
 

Losing oil pressure at high RPM and having it come back at low RPM is a bit of a puzzle to me.  There are ways it can happen, but they are a bit exotic


Do you have an oil pressure gauge AND an low oil pressure alarm?  
If so, is the gauge showing low pressure AND you get an alarm?  
Does the oil pressure drop quickly at 2000RPM or does it drift down slowly?  
Is it stable, or does it bounce around?
Does it come back quickly when you reduce the RPM, or does it stay low?
Re: Pump out of black water

karkauai
 

Hi all,
I'm also looking for a way to monitor holding tank levels. There are several monitors that use capacitance sensors that connect to the outside of the tank. Here's an example:

https://tankedge.com/products.html

Has anyone tried these?

Does anyone know the thickness of the tank walls?
Are they solid fiberglass?

Here's another suggestion that involves screws through the walls:
"I put small stainless steel self-tappers through the side at strategic levels and then used the conductivity of the contents to feed a small amount of current to transistors which in turn switched on LEDs."

Any other ideas?

Thanks for any ideas.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy
Ft Lauderdale, FL USA
Re: Re :[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Perkins M 4 .154 engine repairs, rescheduling trip

smiles bernard
 

Hi there Christian
As a fellow maramu owner with an older engine I’d be interested in your thoughts about the Volvo D2/55 as a replacement vs other alternatives. 

Size, simplicity, cost etc? What led you to choose the Volvo?

Many thanks and best wishes 

Miles


On 21 Jan 2018, at 14:29, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks for concern & assistance Bill
guess all the advice & analysis of fault helped me come to the conclusion (already uderstood & applied before) that there is no shortcut when repairing engines or sailing boats. 
Oil pump is at fault - 100% sure
camshaft is unllikely eve though showing some wear on,poppets.

I am now in Le Marin, waiting for a firm quote on one Volvo D2/55 available for fit up ... on solution even though unplanned this year;
I am also looking for one Perkins Oil pump .... could replace in situ at no great cost & would postpone replacement by new engine to 2019 
or back to Europ in April & do a change over of engines with Perkins or else ... Selling back my 'Old Faithful'

fair winds 
chrsitian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - Le Marin Martinique



Le ‎dimanche‎ ‎31‎ ‎décembre‎ ‎2017‎ ‎12‎:‎53‎:‎11‎ ‎-04, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :


 


Christian,

I am afraid I have no good ideas that match your symptoms!  Since you have both the gauge and alarm reporting low pressure, I have to assume it is real and not a problem with the measurement.

Sometimes low oil level can cause low pressure at high rpm as the pump sucks so much oil out of the crankcase it sucks air, but you checked that.

A stuck open pressure relief valve that resets itself when the engine shuts down could be an an issue, but that seems unlikely.

Maybe someone else has an idea or two...  in any event do let us know what the solution turns out to be!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Key West, FL



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Here is

Yes - oil pressure gauge and l'os pressure alarme on
When oil pressure below  1 bar, alarme nées
Oil pressure drops quickly at 2000 rpm
Oil pressure remains stable when low or normal
Oil pressure remains low when reducing speed from 2000 

No loss of oil single de started.  
Ran 1hour maneuvring in port at 1300 rpm at 2 bars, went To idle after 1 hour at 700 rpm with 1.1 bar oil pressure.
Did  not  risk acceleration. 

Thks for assiste

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Mindelo Carbo Verde




Le dim., déc. 31, 2017 à 14:58, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :
 

Losing oil pressure at high RPM and having it come back at low RPM is a bit of a puzzle to me.  There are ways it can happen, but they are a bit exotic


Do you have an oil pressure gauge AND an low oil pressure alarm?  
If so, is the gauge showing low pressure AND you get an alarm?  
Does the oil pressure drop quickly at 2000RPM or does it drift down slowly?  
Is it stable, or does it bounce around?
Does it come back quickly when you reduce the RPM, or does it stay low?
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Colour code gelcoat hull SM 2K

Peter Jaeger
 

So the "white" one is Ivoire


Gesendet von Yahoo Mail für iPad

Am Dienstag, Januar 23, 2018, 08:46 schrieb Peter Jaeger mallamok@... [amelyachtowners] :

 

Hi Willem

I asked Maud this question last September, that was the answer

Most of the color codes for the Gelcoat of the Super do not exist as they are special and unique. 

However we have 2 RAL numbers that should be of help:

Rouge liston: RAL 3003

Ivoire: RAL 1013

You could buy both Gelcoats at Amel in La Rochelle.

Hope that helps

Peter


Wilson, SM003, La Rochelle



Gesendet von Yahoo Mail für iPad

Am Montag, Januar 22, 2018, 16:44 schrieb kavanga@... [amelyachtowners] :

 

Is there a SM 2K owner knowing the colour code of the standard white gelcoat used on the hull?


Willem Kroes

SM2K #351 Kavanga
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Colour code gelcoat hull SM 2K

Peter Jaeger
 

Hi Willem
I asked Maud this question last September, that was the answer

Most of the color codes for the Gelcoat of the Super do not exist as they are special and unique. 

However we have 2 RAL numbers that should be of help:

Rouge liston: RAL 3003

Ivoire: RAL 1013

You could buy both Gelcoats at Amel in La Rochelle.

Hope that helps

Peter


Wilson, SM003, La Rochelle



Gesendet von Yahoo Mail für iPad

Am Montag, Januar 22, 2018, 16:44 schrieb kavanga@... [amelyachtowners] :

 

Is there a SM 2K owner knowing the colour code of the standard white gelcoat used on the hull?


Willem Kroes

SM2K #351 Kavanga
Colour code gelcoat hull SM 2K

Willem Kroes
 

Is there a SM 2K owner knowing the colour code of the standard white gelcoat used on the hull?


Willem Kroes

SM2K #351 Kavanga
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Hookah System

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Fair enough, didn't realise the hookah was so cheap.
Regards
Danny

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 22 Jan 2018 14:15, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Danny, I don't have a compressor to fill tanks.  The home-brewed hookah was $125 and I have an air compressor for other uses.  Taking a tank ashore to refill doesn't appeal to me.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

 

Hi, I can't help but feel you guys make life difficult and expensive for yourselves. I have  40 foot hose on my dive  bottle I use for that.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
Mangonui
New Zealand
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Hookah System

karkauai
 

Hi Danny, I don't have a compressor to fill tanks.  The home-brewed hookah was $125 and I have an air compressor for other uses.  Taking a tank ashore to refill doesn't appeal to me.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

 

Hi, I can't help but feel you guys make life difficult and expensive for yourselves. I have  40 foot hose on my dive  bottle I use for that.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
Mangonui
New Zealand
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Hookah System

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi, I can't help but feel you guys make life difficult and expensive for yourselves. I have  40 foot hose on my dive  bottle I use for that.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
Mangonui
New Zealand

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 21 Jan 2018 12:01, "sangaris@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Way to go, Kent!  I trust you referred to David Lynn's (formerly s/v Nine of Cups) article in the October 2012 Ocean Navigator on doing this. Anybody interested should google that article. I'm assembling one now.


The only thing you didn't mention that David included is an air filter/water separator in the regulator supply line - trust you did put it in. 

BTW, what is the CFM rating of your compressor and how many gallons is the tank?

Cheers, Craig - SN#68 Sangaris


---In amelyachtowners@..., <karkauai@...> wrote :

I changed the Subject line...

I bought an oil-less compressor from HarborFreight (pan style, 100psi) for $60 on sale.  With a 50ft hose and used regulator for another $75, I have a hookah system for cleaning the bottom, unfouling the prop, and changing zincs, as well as compressed air for lots of other things.  I run it off of my 1800W 24-110AC inverter.

Kent
S/V Kristy
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Mast prebend Amel 54

Porter McRoberts
 

Agree with you 100% Nick
Re the slight prebend and lack of pumping both. 
Just FYI as a point of confirmation for you
I also do have the reinforced mast

Porter
Ibis
54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Jan 21, 2018, at 7:22 AM, kwzy6vgkpvtfohjddjsrotobzwf2pjeafjwalhur@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Olivier,


Thank you for that information. I will introduce a very slight prebend whilst at anchor, then go and test it as you suggest. 

Whilst on the subject of the mast and rigging. I have not been using the running backstays much as I have been reaching up and down the islands in the West Indies.

 However I will be sailing back to Europe this May and will most likely have a good thrash to windward, at least for the first few days, and will use the runners accordingly. However I feel that they are hardly necessary in all but rough conditions to windward, as the spreaders are swept aft. Thus the lower spreader and the baby stay triangulate and the upper spreader and the staysail stay also triangulate. Up to now I have seen very little or no pumping of the mast, even when sailing upwind in 15-20 knots true wind.

Would you agree with that approach?

Kind regards

Nick
Re: Re :[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Perkins M 4 .154 engine repairs, rescheduling trip

christian alby <calbyy@...>
 

Thanks for concern & assistance Bill
guess all the advice & analysis of fault helped me come to the conclusion (already uderstood & applied before) that there is no shortcut when repairing engines or sailing boats. 
Oil pump is at fault - 100% sure
camshaft is unllikely eve though showing some wear on,poppets.

I am now in Le Marin, waiting for a firm quote on one Volvo D2/55 available for fit up ... on solution even though unplanned this year;
I am also looking for one Perkins Oil pump ... could replace in situ at no great cost & would postpone replacement by new engine to 2019 
or back to Europ in April & do a change over of engines with Perkins or else ... Selling back my 'Old Faithful'

fair winds 
chrsitian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - Le Marin Martinique



Le ‎dimanche‎ ‎31‎ ‎décembre‎ ‎2017‎ ‎12‎:‎53‎:‎11‎ ‎-04, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] a écrit :


 


Christian,

I am afraid I have no good ideas that match your symptoms!  Since you have both the gauge and alarm reporting low pressure, I have to assume it is real and not a problem with the measurement.

Sometimes low oil level can cause low pressure at high rpm as the pump sucks so much oil out of the crankcase it sucks air, but you checked that.

A stuck open pressure relief valve that resets itself when the engine shuts down could be an an issue, but that seems unlikely.

Maybe someone else has an idea or two...  in any event do let us know what the solution turns out to be!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Key West, FL



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Here is

Yes - oil pressure gauge and l'os pressure alarme on
When oil pressure below  1 bar, alarme nées
Oil pressure drops quickly at 2000 rpm
Oil pressure remains stable when low or normal
Oil pressure remains low when reducing speed from 2000 

No loss of oil single de started.  
Ran 1hour maneuvring in port at 1300 rpm at 2 bars, went To idle after 1 hour at 700 rpm with 1.1 bar oil pressure.
Did  not  risk acceleration. 

Thks for assiste

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Mindelo Carbo Verde




Le dim., déc. 31, 2017 à 14:58, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
a écrit :
 

Losing oil pressure at high RPM and having it come back at low RPM is a bit of a puzzle to me.  There are ways it can happen, but they are a bit exotic


Do you have an oil pressure gauge AND an low oil pressure alarm?  
If so, is the gauge showing low pressure AND you get an alarm?  
Does the oil pressure drop quickly at 2000RPM or does it drift down slowly?  
Is it stable, or does it bounce around?
Does it come back quickly when you reduce the RPM, or does it stay low?
Re: Re :[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Perkins M 4 .154 engine repairs, rescheduling trip

christian alby <calbyy@...>
 

Hi there
crankshaft was checked in worrkshop & found to be within 'as new' tolérances; no wear to top part.
what was showing wear is
camshaft & poppets (heavily marked) but mounted back as the were as I could not find replacement. 
Oil pump, inner parts were severely scored; again nio replacement available so mounted old pump back on engine.

now in Le Marin; found one Volvlo D2/55 available - waiting for quote.
Searching for oïl pump for Perkins as an alternative solution ... would do replacement in situ (love oïl)
or return to Europe in April to do all teh the remaining work which was planned for next year ... before reverting on my trail to South Atlantic.

I do love this boat; will keep her in shape so as she can give back in pleasure of sailing.

Fair winds

christian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - Le Marin Martinique




Le ‎dimanche‎ ‎31‎ ‎décembre‎ ‎2017‎ ‎14‎:‎17‎:‎48‎ ‎-04, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] a écrit :


 

I think Joel was right on with his diagnosis:

 

 

More than likely your problem is the crankshaft bearings and the connecting rod bearings clearances are too large. As the engine warms the expansion of components causes the clearances to increase even more and hence the oil pressure to go down.

 

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Martinique

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 12:53 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: Re :[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Perkins M 4 .154 engine repairs, rescheduling trip

 

 

 

Christian,

 

I am afraid I have no good ideas that match your symptoms!  Since you have both the gauge and alarm reporting low pressure, I have to assume it is real and not a problem with the measurement.

 

Sometimes low oil level can cause low pressure at high rpm as the pump sucks so much oil out of the crankcase it sucks air, but you checked that.

 

A stuck open pressure relief valve that resets itself when the engine shuts down could be an an issue, but that seems unlikely.

 

Maybe someone else has an idea or two...  in any event do let us know what the solution turns out to be!

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Key West, FL

 



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Here is

 

Yes - oil pressure gauge and l'os pressure alarme on

When oil pressure below  1 bar, alarme nées

Oil pressure drops quickly at 2000 rpm

Oil pressure remains stable when low or normal

Oil pressure remains low when reducing speed from 2000 

 

No loss of oil single de started.  

Ran 1hour maneuvring in port at 1300 rpm at 2 bars, went To idle after 1 hour at 700 rpm with 1.1 bar oil pressure.

Did  not  risk acceleration. 

 

Thks for assiste

 

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Mindelo Carbo Verde

 

 

 

 

Le dim., déc. 31, 2017 à 14:58, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]

a écrit :

 

Losing oil pressure at high RPM and having it come back at low RPM is a bit of a puzzle to me.  There are ways it can happen, but they are a bit exotic

 

Do you have an oil pressure gauge AND an low oil pressure alarm?  

If so, is the gauge showing low pressure AND you get an alarm?  

Does the oil pressure drop quickly at 2000RPM or does it drift down slowly?  

Is it stable, or does it bounce around?

Does it come back quickly when you reduce the RPM, or does it stay low?

 

 

 
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Perkins M 4.154 engine repairs, rescheduling trip

christian alby <calbyy@...>
 

hi there james
thanks for detailed analysis - Oil pump failure is definetly the problem now;
mounted the damaged one back on engine as I could not find one before we did the rebuild;
I start searching already for a replacement whilst sailing the islands in the Caribean (could be worse).
Engine runs ok to charge batteries, maneuver in port, drop & recover Anchor & even supporting speed at low revs'.

alternatives are now to replace engine by new Volvo D2/55 available in Le Marin ... at a cost which was not planned until 2019
or finding a replacement oïl pump & opening up engine in situ & replacing by new or refurbished pump ... testing & making the most of my old M 4.154
waiting for quotes & offers ...

christian alby - Désirade VIII - maramu 116 - in Le Marin Martinique



Le ‎lundi‎ ‎1‎ ‎janvier‎ ‎2018‎ ‎10‎:‎41‎:‎09‎ ‎-04, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] a écrit :


 

Christian Alby,


   I have never seen a problem where the oil pressure on an engine would drop as engine RPM was increased.  The only explanation that I can think of is a mechanical failure of the oil pump.  As I recall from your previous posts:

1.  Your engine experienced significant dilution of the engine oil with diesel fuel followed by at least two runaways which likely exceeded the maximum RPM rating of the engine.

2.  Apparently due to the loss of lubrication, the oil pump was badly scored.

  My guess is that due to the lack of lubrication,  high engine speed (and perhaps some galling of the oil pump which lead to the  scoring the oil pump) that something in the drive for the oil pump has mostly failed.  Perhaps the gears driving the oil pump are beginning to slip at 2000 RPM now because either the gears or the bearings that should hold the correct clearances have been damaged.  In other words the gears could be only partially engaged due to wear of the gear or the bearings and as the oil pressure rises with engine speed, you reach a point where they begin to slip, causing a rapid drop in oil pressure.  Lowering the engine RPM and oil pressure might be allowing the pump to resume turning as the load on the pump drops and the gears partially reengage.  Certainly unless this problem is corrected, your new engine will not last long.   It is of course impossible to know for sure what the problem is but given that the oil pump is essentially a positive displacement pump which should pump more oil with increasing RPM,  this is the only scenario that I can think of to cause the symptoms that you described.

Best of luck and Happy New Year,

James
SV Sueño,  Maramu #220
 
On Dec 31, 2017, at 11:38 AM, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Here is


Yes - oil pressure gauge and l'os pressure alarme on
When oil pressure below  1 bar, alarme nées
Oil pressure drops quickly at 2000 rpm
Oil pressure remains stable when low or normal
Oil pressure remains low when reducing speed from 2000 

No loss of oil single de started.  
Ran 1hour maneuvring in port at 1300 rpm at 2 bars, went To idle after 1 hour at 700 rpm with 1.1 bar oil pressure.
Did  not  risk acceleration. 

Thks for assiste

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Mindelo Carbo Verde




Le dim., déc.. 31, 2017 à 14:58, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :
 

Losing oil pressure at high RPM and having it come back at low RPM is a bit of a puzzle to me.  There are ways it can happen, but they are a bit exotic


Do you have an oil pressure gauge AND an low oil pressure alarm?  
If so, is the gauge showing low pressure AND you get an alarm?  
Does the oil pressure drop quickly at 2000RPM or does it drift down slowly?  
Is it stable, or does it bounce around?
Does it come back quickly when you reduce the RPM, or does it stay low?
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Perkins M 4.154 engine repairs, rescheduling trip

christian alby <calbyy@...>
 

hi there 
absolutly right
oïl pump is gone - we found it badly scored on inner body & rotating part; as I could not find a replacement I fitted it again in 'as is' condition. 
therefore engine runs smoothly & maintains proper oïl pressure below 1500 rpm (even running for 4 hours in a row); Oil pressure drops fast when going over 1500 rpm.
We did arrive in Le marin on the 16/01 & are currently discussing with local workshop to replace engine by brand new Volvo D2/55 (no turbo).
Alternative being to go back to home port in France by early April & find a new or refurbished oïl pump & replace (easy job apparently, rigging a beam in cockpit to lift top part of engine);
Still checking whilst enjoying the sights in Martinique.
fair trade winds to you

christian alby - Désirade VIIII - Maramu 116 - in Le Marin Martinique




Le ‎lundi‎ ‎1‎ ‎janvier‎ ‎2018‎ ‎20‎:‎45‎:‎16‎ ‎-04, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] a écrit :


 

Hi,

If you are planning to cross to Martinique, I would switch to straight 40 weight oil.

When I first received Kimberlite, The factory Yanmar chief mechanic came to replace the turbo. He said to use only straight 40 weight unless you are heading to somewhere very cold.

 

I think the 40 weight might help the oil pressure a little. However , there is something going on in the bottom end of your engine, either too much tolerance in the main bearings, or a defective oil pump.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 9:41 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Perkins M 4.154 engine repairs, rescheduling trip

 

 

Christian Alby,

 

   I have never seen a problem where the oil pressure on an engine would drop as engine RPM was increased.  The only explanation that I can think of is a mechanical failure of the oil pump.  As I recall from your previous posts:

 

1.  Your engine experienced significant dilution of the engine oil with diesel fuel followed by at least two runaways which likely exceeded the maximum RPM rating of the engine.

 

2.  Apparently due to the loss of lubrication, the oil pump was badly scored.

 

  My guess is that due to the lack of lubrication,  high engine speed (and perhaps some galling of the oil pump which lead to the  scoring the oil pump) that something in the drive for the oil pump has mostly failed.  Perhaps the gears driving the oil pump are beginning to slip at 2000 RPM now because either the gears or the bearings that should hold the correct clearances have been damaged.  In other words the gears could be only partially engaged due to wear of the gear or the bearings and as the oil pressure rises with engine speed, you reach a point where they begin to slip, causing a rapid drop in oil pressure.  Lowering the engine RPM and oil pressure might be allowing the pump to resume turning as the load on the pump drops and the gears partially reengage.  Certainly unless this problem is corrected, your new engine will not last long.   It is of course impossible to know for sure what the problem is but given that the oil pump is essentially a positive displacement pump which should pump more oil with increasing RPM,  this is the only scenario that I can think of to cause the symptoms that you described.

 

Best of luck and Happy New Year,

 

James

SV Sueño,  Maramu #220

 

On Dec 31, 2017, at 11:38 AM, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Here is

 

Yes - oil pressure gauge and l'os pressure alarme on

When oil pressure below  1 bar, alarme nées

Oil pressure drops quickly at 2000 rpm

Oil pressure remains stable when low or normal

Oil pressure remains low when reducing speed from 2000 

 

No loss of oil single de started.  

Ran 1hour maneuvring in port at 1300 rpm at 2 bars, went To idle after 1 hour at 700 rpm with 1.1 bar oil pressure.

Did  not  risk acceleration. 

 

Thks for assiste

 

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Mindelo Carbo Verde

 

 

 

 

Le dim., déc.. 31, 2017 à 14:58, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]

<amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :

 

Losing oil pressure at high RPM and having it come back at low RPM is a bit of a puzzle to me.  There are ways it can happen, but they are a bit exotic

 

Do you have an oil pressure gauge AND an low oil pressure alarm?  

If so, is the gauge showing low pressure AND you get an alarm?  

Does the oil pressure drop quickly at 2000RPM or does it drift down slowly?  

Is it stable, or does it bounce around?

Does it come back quickly when you reduce the RPM, or does it stay low?

 

 

 

 

 
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Mast prebend Amel 54

kwzy6vgkpvtfohjddjsrotobzwf2pjeafjwalhur@...
 

Hello Olivier,

Thank you for that information. I will introduce a very slight prebend whilst at anchor, then go and test it as you suggest. 

Whilst on the subject of the mast and rigging. I have not been using the running backstays much as I have been reaching up and down the islands in the West Indies.

 However I will be sailing back to Europe this May and will most likely have a good thrash to windward, at least for the first few days, and will use the runners accordingly. However I feel that they are hardly necessary in all but rough conditions to windward, as the spreaders are swept aft. Thus the lower spreader and the baby stay triangulate and the upper spreader and the staysail stay also triangulate. Up to now I have seen very little or no pumping of the mast, even when sailing upwind in 15-20 knots true wind.

Would you agree with that approach?

Kind regards

Nick