Date   
Re: Heading Sensor vs. Solid State Compass???

Duane Siegfri
 

Wow!  Lot's of great information/interest.

I spoke to Airmar today and they told me the compass in the 220WX is the same as the GH2183, which had a great review from one of the sailing magazines.

I also spoke to them about the DX900+ (a transducer that is solid state depth/boatspeed/temperature with no paddlewheel).  I was told that they recommend against anti-foul, but that the unit is inherently anti-foul by material selection...  That sounds a bit hokey to me, but I'm thinking that it's not a big deal to pull it prior to a bottom scrape or every three months to give it a rub.

Duane

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: new Genoa

Dave_Benjamin
 

Bill,

If you look at some of my past posts, I've emphasized how important it is that the genoa work well with the poles. Most sailmakers are not well acquainted with this unique system. One of the ways you can tell immediately is if they start discussion of a common size genoa, IE:135%, 150%, etc. 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Mainsail measurements

Dave_Benjamin
 

Pat,

Guesswork is no way to design and build. I'm sure they have a measurement form you could use to record measurements, or if you don't trust your ability to measure, then pay a rigger for a half hour to come to the boat and complete the form. One of the advantages of dealing with a smaller loft that isn't trying to do mass production is that they can take the time to make things perfect as opposed to just having something that fills a triangle. 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Mainsail measurements

Patrick McAneny
 

Dave, In this case the sails are not being made in China , they are being made by a sailmaker that I have over thirty years of experience with , Mack Sails. They have enough experience , to realize that sails stretch over time and would compensate for that, however that is one reason I wanted to have the factory measurements. This will be the fifth sail they have made for me and I am confident that I will be as happy with this one as I have been with the last four. They only use the best sail cloth , do excellent work and are very reasonably priced. 
Thanks , but no worries,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: dave_benjamin@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Mar 15, 2018 10:45 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Mainsail measurements

 
Pat,

To quote another member of the Amel community, "there is no right way to do the wrong thing." Respectable  sailmakers trust only physical rig measurements taken from the rig as opposed to measuring a stretched worn sail. I highly encourage you to work with either a local sailmaker who can measure the rig or work with one of the sailmakers like myself who have enough experience with the SM to produce a sail without a visit to the boat. 

As for the insignia question, most of us sailmakers have a "database" of insignias so they come out matching the factory original well. 

These questions you've asked suggest to me that you're not working with a real sailmaker, perhaps just an agent of some Chinese loft with little working knowledge of sailmaking. Caveat emptor. I've seen similar tales not end well and in some cases had to replace those brand new sail s with one that actually works.  

Re: Heading Sensor vs. Solid State Compass???

SV Perigee
 

re:  My new chartplotter manual says it needs a Heading Sensor in order to overlay the Radar on the chart.

You may not need to install a dedicated heading sensor; but may be able to take Heading data from your autopilot, if it is available as an NMEA output to be placed on your NMEA-183 or -2000 bus.

Further info: our original 400-series Raymarine autopilot was upgraded to the 'G' specification by the addition of a rate gyro input, specifically a Raymarine "Gyroplus2 SHS" (Smart Heading Sensor).   As I understand it this was necessary because the original fluxgate compass (the black puck) did not by itself provide the quality of heading data needed by the new chartplotter+radar combo, for display in the "heading up" mode.  The heading hold and performance of the autopilot is also improved by the additional of the rate gyro input.

The A/P needs to be powered up for the "Heading Up" mode to be available; when the A/P is off, then only "North Up" display is available.

Hope this is helpful.

David
SV Perigee, SM#396
On anchor, Sint Maarten

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Black Smoke From Volvo Penta Engine Exhaust

Alex Ramseyer <alexramseyer@...>
 

When I had similar symptoms my turbo charger was clogged. I had a lot of black smoke instead of power, but after the turbo freed itself, everything went back to normal.
Alex
NO STRESS


On Thursday, March 15, 2018, 12:15:50 PM GMT-4, pacificcool@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

I removed the elbow in Point-a-Pitre and it was almost blocked with very hard carbon deposits.  I'd guess that it was only 30% open. Even so the engine ran well. The turbo turns freely so is probably OK.  Unfortunately, they don't have the elbow here and must order it.  Will be at least a week.  The mechanic who looked at it said the elbow should be replaced every 3 years. He says that it is not possible to just clean out the carbon, but I don;t understand why not.  It's the first I'd heard about the 3 year removal requirement and saw nothing in the Operating Manual which has all of the routine maintenance identified. Just sending this to close out the question.  Thanks for all the good suggestions.  

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Black Smoke From Volvo Penta Engine Exhaust

pacificcool@...
 

I removed the elbow in Point-a-Pitre and it was almost blocked with very hard carbon deposits.  I'd guess that it was only 30% open. Even so the engine ran well. The turbo turns freely so is probably OK.  Unfortunately, they don't have the elbow here and must order it.  Will be at least a week.  The mechanic who looked at it said the elbow should be replaced every 3 years. He says that it is not possible to just clean out the carbon, but I don;t understand why not.  It's the first I'd heard about the 3 year removal requirement and saw nothing in the Operating Manual which has all of the routine maintenance identified. Just sending this to close out the question.  Thanks for all the good suggestions.  

Re: Interfacing B&G Analogue displays to Raymarine system

SV Perigee
 

Hi Terry, are you still investigating this issue?

Best,

David
SV Perigee SM#396
On anchor, St Maarten

Re: Mainsail measurements

Dave_Benjamin
 

Pat,

To quote another member of the Amel community, "there is no right way to do the wrong thing." Respectable  sailmakers trust only physical rig measurements taken from the rig as opposed to measuring a stretched worn sail. I highly encourage you to work with either a local sailmaker who can measure the rig or work with one of the sailmakers like myself who have enough experience with the SM to produce a sail without a visit to the boat. 

As for the insignia question, most of us sailmakers have a "database" of insignias so they come out matching the factory original well. 

These questions you've asked suggest to me that you're not working with a real sailmaker, perhaps just an agent of some Chinese loft with little working knowledge of sailmaking. Caveat emptor. I've seen similar tales not end well and in some cases had to replace those brand new sails with one that actually works.  

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heading Sensor vs. Solid State Compass???

Brent Cameron
 

Your absolutely correct Ryan. Total brain fart on my part. I actually knew that. I plead winter separation from my boat! :-). 

On Mar 15, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Brent,
Thank you for the deep dive on the history of these communication protocols.  There's a lot of good information there, though there are a couple of errors I feel I should correct.  NMEA2000 is not Ethernet-based, it is CAN-based.  The consequence of this is NMEA2000 has its own standardized round connectors, not the familiar RJ45 connectors most people know from their home internet router.  To my knowledge, there is no industry standard Ethernet solution for marine instruments, though there is one under development called OneNet.  Raymarine's proprietary SeaTalkNG is their NMEA2000 extension, and SeaTalkHS/RayNet is their Ethernet technology.

My reading of the Airmar 220WX specification sheet says it supports both NMEA0183 and NMEA2000, so Duane should have plenty of options for interfacing.  I'd recommend NMEA2000 because it's the more modern standard and can have multiple devices on the same bus (cable).  That same document lists a bunch of heading information that comes from the unit, so I think it would suffice for the radar on a technical level (this could be confirmed by comparing the needed data messages in the radar manual to the output messages of the 220WX), though practically might have error introduced by being at the top of the mast.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 9:49 AM, Brent Cameron brentcameron61@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Not (yet) an Amel owner but I have a fair amount of experience wiring up and debugging electrical systems (including NMEA marine systems) so thought I might be able to help.  I’ve learnt untold new things on this excellent forum about the Amel I hope to buy in the next 12 months so want to give back.

Excluding sending charts/radar themselves, there are 4 usual interfaces of various marine systems that are generally put under 2 main categories in two flavours, NMEA and SeaTalk.  NMEA is an industry standard while SeaTalk is RayMarine’s proprietary implementation of NMEA (implements NMEA but adds proprietary(and encrypted)  extensions of questionable value - and I say this as an owner of almost solely RayMarine electronics on my sailboat).   The main categories are the older serial interface (NMEA 0183) and the newer Ethernet based NMEA 2000 interface.  NMEA 0183 (and legacy SeaTalk) is based on a two wire RS-422 hardware standard.  It’s slow (but high speed isn’t necessary anyway) but has disparate connectors for every device so usually results in splices and lose wires that can be problematic if not implemented properly.   NMEA is an open standard (so is supported by everybody) while SeaTalk is generally only supported by RayMarine (and a few vendors who make interface boxes).  Both SeaTalk and NMEA0183 can co-exist over the same wires but they send information under different formats and you generally need an interface box to be able to read and write to both.  Some GPS/ChartPlotter’s (like RayMarine’s) output NMEA0183 in addition to SeaTalk so it’s possible to use other devices like computers to read information generated by SeaTalk devices like wind instruments and autopilots.   Generally SeaTalk allows extra information outside the NMEA standard information to be sent to Raymarine head units but third party devices like computers generally don’t need access to that information anyway and the basic information available over the NMEA 0183 is adequate.  NMEA0183 is a bit more finicky and troubleshooting can be more troublesome due to the wiring challenges.

NMEA 2000 (and SeaTalk NG (Next Generation) send information over a different high speed Ethernet based network (like the hard wired internet connection on your computer).  It uses the same RJ45 six pin connector and the information traverses the network using the IP (Internet Protocol) standard.   Again the main difference between SeaTalkNG and NMEA 2000 is a few proprietary (and encrypted) extensions by SeaTalk but they can co-exist on the same network and connections.  They usually just plug right into the connectors on the back of the devices so can be easier for non-techies to implement.

From a quick review of the Airmar 220WX website, it appears that this device transmits information on the old NMEA0183 serial network.  Since it is only sending wind/gps information, this is fine as it can still update every second without challenges.  You don’t say what Chartplotter you got but most support NMEA0183 while newer ones also support NMEA2000.  

I note that this device does send heading and GPS information in addition to the wind information so your chart plotter (if it reads NMEA0183), should be able to get the heading information from that device without any challenges as the heading information is sent using a standard string whether it comes from a solid state compass or a traditional one.  A bigger challenge might be how accurate that information can be at the top of a 65’ mast rocketing back and forth over a wide arc in any sort of seas...   The site says that the unit is stabilized but I’d be a bit sceptical about that as most of their pictures have it mounted fairly low (except for the one sailboat where it is also mounted beside a traditional wind instrument).   That said, it might be worth picking one up and trying it out as it should be possible to correct for much of this using electronics - that said the more corrections you have the more chances for error.  

Brent Cameron
Future Amel owner.

On Mar 15, 2018, 8:02 AM -0400, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>, wrote:
Airmar 220WX


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heading Sensor vs. Solid State Compass???

Ryan Meador
 

Hi Brent,
Thank you for the deep dive on the history of these communication protocols.  There's a lot of good information there, though there are a couple of errors I feel I should correct.  NMEA2000 is not Ethernet-based, it is CAN-based.  The consequence of this is NMEA2000 has its own standardized round connectors, not the familiar RJ45 connectors most people know from their home internet router.  To my knowledge, there is no industry standard Ethernet solution for marine instruments, though there is one under development called OneNet.  Raymarine's proprietary SeaTalkNG is their NMEA2000 extension, and SeaTalkHS/RayNet is their Ethernet technology.

My reading of the Airmar 220WX specification sheet says it supports both NMEA0183 and NMEA2000, so Duane should have plenty of options for interfacing.  I'd recommend NMEA2000 because it's the more modern standard and can have multiple devices on the same bus (cable).  That same document lists a bunch of heading information that comes from the unit, so I think it would suffice for the radar on a technical level (this could be confirmed by comparing the needed data messages in the radar manual to the output messages of the 220WX), though practically might have error introduced by being at the top of the mast.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 9:49 AM, Brent Cameron brentcameron61@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Not (yet) an Amel owner but I have a fair amount of experience wiring up and debugging electrical systems (including NMEA marine systems) so thought I might be able to help.  I’ve learnt untold new things on this excellent forum about the Amel I hope to buy in the next 12 months so want to give back.

Excluding sending charts/radar themselves, there are 4 usual interfaces of various marine systems that are generally put under 2 main categories in two flavours, NMEA and SeaTalk.  NMEA is an industry standard while SeaTalk is RayMarine’s proprietary implementation of NMEA (implements NMEA but adds proprietary(and encrypted)  extensions of questionable value - and I say this as an owner of almost solely RayMarine electronics on my sailboat).   The main categories are the older serial interface (NMEA 0183) and the newer Ethernet based NMEA 2000 interface.  NMEA 0183 (and legacy SeaTalk) is based on a two wire RS-422 hardware standard.  It’s slow (but high speed isn’t necessary anyway) but has disparate connectors for every device so usually results in splices and lose wires that can be problematic if not implemented properly.   NMEA is an open standard (so is supported by everybody) while SeaTalk is generally only supported by RayMarine (and a few vendors who make interface boxes).  Both SeaTalk and NMEA0183 can co-exist over the same wires but they send information under different formats and you generally need an interface box to be able to read and write to both.  Some GPS/ChartPlotter’s (like RayMarine’s) output NMEA0183 in addition to SeaTalk so it’s possible to use other devices like computers to read information generated by SeaTalk devices like wind instruments and autopilots.   Generally SeaTalk allows extra information outside the NMEA standard information to be sent to Raymarine head units but third party devices like computers generally don’t need access to that information anyway and the basic information available over the NMEA 0183 is adequate.  NMEA0183 is a bit more finicky and troubleshooting can be more troublesome due to the wiring challenges.

NMEA 2000 (and SeaTalk NG (Next Generation) send information over a different high speed Ethernet based network (like the hard wired internet connection on your computer).  It uses the same RJ45 six pin connector and the information traverses the network using the IP (Internet Protocol) standard.   Again the main difference between SeaTalkNG and NMEA 2000 is a few proprietary (and encrypted) extensions by SeaTalk but they can co-exist on the same network and connections.  They usually just plug right into the connectors on the back of the devices so can be easier for non-techies to implement.

From a quick review of the Airmar 220WX website, it appears that this device transmits information on the old NMEA0183 serial network.  Since it is only sending wind/gps information, this is fine as it can still update every second without challenges.  You don’t say what Chartplotter you got but most support NMEA0183 while newer ones also support NMEA2000.  

I note that this device does send heading and GPS information in addition to the wind information so your chart plotter (if it reads NMEA0183), should be able to get the heading information from that device without any challenges as the heading information is sent using a standard string whether it comes from a solid state compass or a traditional one.  A bigger challenge might be how accurate that information can be at the top of a 65’ mast rocketing back and forth over a wide arc in any sort of seas..   The site says that the unit is stabilized but I’d be a bit sceptical about that as most of their pictures have it mounted fairly low (except for the one sailboat where it is also mounted beside a traditional wind instrument).   That said, it might be worth picking one up and trying it out as it should be possible to correct for much of this using electronics - that said the more corrections you have the more chances for error.  

Brent Cameron
Future Amel owner.

On Mar 15, 2018, 8:02 AM -0400, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>, wrote:
Airmar 220WX


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heading Sensor vs. Solid State Compass???

Brent Cameron
 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heading Sensor vs. Solid State Compass???

Ryan Meador
 

Hi Duane,
I'm fairly confident a solid state compass is a heading sensor, but I've never seen a formal definition of those terms.  The GPS will definitely be subject to error due to the mast movement.  My AIS instruction manual specifically warns against mounting the GPS on a mast for this reason.  I'd imagine a compass would be less susceptible to error from mast motion because it is mostly roll and pitch, not the yaw the compass measures, but that's just a hunch.  It can only be better for performance to mount these sensors near the center of motion of the boat.

Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 8:00 AM, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I'm confused with the terminology.


My new chartplotter manual says it needs a Heading Sensor in order to overlay the Radar on the chart.


I'm thinking of using the Airmar 220WX for wind at the top of the mast, especially since it incorporates a GPS and a "three axis solid state compass with dynamic stabilization".


Is "Heading Sensor" just another term for "solid state compass"?  


One other thing: Is a compass at the top of the mast subject to error or wide swings due to mast movement in a sea?  What about the GPS...same question?


Thanks,

Duane



Heading Sensor vs. Solid State Compass???

Duane Siegfri
 

I'm confused with the terminology.


My new chartplotter manual says it needs a Heading Sensor in order to overlay the Radar on the chart.


I'm thinking of using the Airmar 220WX for wind at the top of the mast, especially since it incorporates a GPS and a "three axis solid state compass with dynamic stabilization".


Is "Heading Sensor" just another term for "solid state compass"?  


One other thing: Is a compass at the top of the mast subject to error or wide swings due to mast movement in a sea?  What about the GPS...same question?


Thanks,

Duane


survey

michael winand
 

Hi everyone.
I am interested a survey recommendation in Australia . Any suggestions would be great

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Early Amel in-mast furling (c1985)

James Alton
 

Joel,

   This is a big help to me, thank you.  I will address all of the points that you brought up.  Would you by chance know where I could obtain replacement bearings for my Nirvana Swivels?  Also,  if  you might have a set of Nirvana swivels that I could buy from you let me know.  The manual back up system on the Main so far can be moved very easily thankfully but I will make it a point to lubricate it on a regular basis.  Where would you suggest is the best place to have the motors rebuilt?  I should have the boat back in Florida by 2020, coming from the Med.   A stop in Martinique would be possible.

   Thanks for the guidance on taking it easy on my furling systems.  

Thanks,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Mar 14, 2018, at 5:41 PM, Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

The manual back up system on the main often freezes up from corrosion so be sure to exercise it and lubricate it frequently. The bearings in the swivel dry out and die. The motors should be rebuilt when they slow down well before they stop.


Although your furlers are working well I would strongly urge you to operate them carefully and smoothly and never make them work harder than they need to. Like all such things there is X amount of work that they can do before they wear out. You can extract this ‘work’ rather quickly by not easing sheets judiciously or bearing off a bit when you have the room, or you can take it out over a longer period by being a bit more carefully thoughtful. I have sold boats that have gone around the world without rebuilding any of the motors or gearboxes. I have had to do extensive maintenance on Amel furling systems that are barely a year old.
The difference is always operator technique. Smooth and easy, ease early....

JOEL F. POTTER
CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST LLC
THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY
Office 954-462-5869 

On Mar 14, 2018, at 5:03 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Joel,


   Thank you for the background on the Nirvana spars which indeed are what I have on my Maramu.  Access to spares to me is a critical part of boat ownership, especially if that ownership turns out to be long term.  As I will soon be preparing my boat for some long passages, if you or anyone else familiar with the Nirvana mast furling systems could list some of the typical areas of failure of this system, it would certainly be appreciated so that I can try to obtain or have spares manufactured as indicated.

   I should add that I have been quite pleased with the amount  of support that Amel has given me even though my boat is now 30 + years old. Thanks to your excellent post, I now better understand the reason that Amel has not been able to help me much with spar related inquiries on my non Amel made Nirvana spars.  Can you tell me if any of the Maramu’s had the Amel manufactured spars?

Thanks,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Mar 14, 2018, at 4:00 PM, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Can you reference the article you mention as to what publication, when it was published and who wrote it? Thanks in advance.

 

When Amel introduced in the mast furling on the Sharki, Maramu and Mango for the 1985 model year, the spars were built by a Swiss firm, NIRVANA. Unfortunately, NIRVANA  soon went suddenly out of business and Amel had to really scramble to obtain spars for their production. Remember, at this time, every Amel boat was delivered on a specific date specified in the contract which was another one of the unique features that endeared cruises to the Amel brand agreement. No one else did this and Amel was very proud of an absolutely perfect record of delivering every boat they built on time and for the exact price contained in the purchase agreement. After an incredible effort, Amel designed furling gear of their own design for the masts and had  tools made to extrude raw aluminum spars and booms to their exact specifications. These spars were delivered to Amel where the furling systems were installed after the spars were painted by a subcontractor.. Rather than buy someone else’s spars, Amel took the path of making their own so they would never be put in a situation where on time delivery of an Amel depended on someone other than themselves.

 

The problem with the NIRVANA built spars is that NIRVANA went back into business under different ownership but they did not offer support for the furling masts thay had built before. Many parts of these NIRVANA spars must be created by talented people if they fail and can be quite costly.

 

Have Fun With Your Amel, Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY 

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

 



.







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Early Amel in-mast furling (c1985)

amelforme
 

The manual back up system on the main often freezes up from corrosion so be sure to exercise it and lubricate it frequently. The bearings in the swivel dry out and die. The motors should be rebuilt when they slow down well before they stop.

Although your furlers are working well I would strongly urge you to operate them carefully and smoothly and never make them work harder than they need to. Like all such things there is X amount of work that they can do before they wear out. You can extract this ‘work’ rather quickly by not easing sheets judiciously or bearing off a bit when you have the room, or you can take it out over a longer period by being a bit more carefully thoughtful. I have sold boats that have gone around the world without rebuilding any of the motors or gearboxes. I have had to do extensive maintenance on Amel furling systems that are barely a year old.
The difference is always operator technique. Smooth and easy, ease early....

JOEL F. POTTER
CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST LLC
THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY
Office 954-462-5869 

On Mar 14, 2018, at 5:03 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Joel,


   Thank you for the background on the Nirvana spars which indeed are what I have on my Maramu.  Access to spares to me is a critical part of boat ownership, especially if that ownership turns out to be long term.  As I will soon be preparing my boat for some long passages, if you or anyone else familiar with the Nirvana mast furling systems could list some of the typical areas of failure of this system, it would certainly be appreciated so that I can try to obtain or have spares manufactured as indicated.

   I should add that I have been quite pleased with the amount  of support that Amel has given me even though my boat is now 30 + years old. Thanks to your excellent post, I now better understand the reason that Amel has not been able to help me much with spar related inquiries on my non Amel made Nirvana spars.  Can you tell me if any of the Maramu’s had the Amel manufactured spars?

Thanks,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Mar 14, 2018, at 4:00 PM, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Can you reference the article you mention as to what publication, when it was published and who wrote it? Thanks in advance.

 

When Amel introduced in the mast furling on the Sharki, Maramu and Mango for the 1985 model year, the spars were built by a Swiss firm, NIRVANA. Unfortunately, NIRVANA  soon went suddenly out of business and Amel had to really scramble to obtain spars for their production. Remember, at this time, every Amel boat was delivered on a specific date specified in the contract which was another one of the unique features that endeared cruises to the Amel brand agreement. No one else did this and Amel was very proud of an absolutely perfect record of delivering every boat they built on time and for the exact price contained in the purchase agreement. After an incredible effort, Amel designed furling gear of their own design for the masts and had  tools made to extrude raw aluminum spars and booms to their exact specifications. These spars were delivered to Amel where the furling systems were installed after the spars were painted by a subcontractor.. Rather than buy someone else’s spars, Amel took the path of making their own so they would never be put in a situation where on time delivery of an Amel depended on someone other than themselves.

 

The problem with the NIRVANA built spars is that NIRVANA went back into business under different ownership but they did not offer support for the furling masts thay had built before. Many parts of these NIRVANA spars must be created by talented people if they fail and can be quite costly.

 

Have Fun With Your Amel, Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY 

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

 



.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Early Amel in-mast furling (c1985)

James Alton
 

Joel,

   Thank you for the background on the Nirvana spars which indeed are what I have on my Maramu.  Access to spares to me is a critical part of boat ownership, especially if that ownership turns out to be long term.  As I will soon be preparing my boat for some long passages, if you or anyone else familiar with the Nirvana mast furling systems could list some of the typical areas of failure of this system, it would certainly be appreciated so that I can try to obtain or have spares manufactured as indicated.

   I should add that I have been quite pleased with the amount  of support that Amel has given me even though my boat is now 30 + years old. Thanks to your excellent post, I now better understand the reason that Amel has not been able to help me much with spar related inquiries on my non Amel made Nirvana spars.  Can you tell me if any of the Maramu’s had the Amel manufactured spars?

Thanks,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Mar 14, 2018, at 4:00 PM, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Can you reference the article you mention as to what publication, when it was published and who wrote it? Thanks in advance.

 

When Amel introduced in the mast furling on the Sharki, Maramu and Mango for the 1985 model year, the spars were built by a Swiss firm, NIRVANA. Unfortunately, NIRVANA  soon went suddenly out of business and Amel had to really scramble to obtain spars for their production. Remember, at this time, every Amel boat was delivered on a specific date specified in the contract which was another one of the unique features that endeared cruises to the Amel brand agreement. No one else did this and Amel was very proud of an absolutely perfect record of delivering every boat they built on time and for the exact price contained in the purchase agreement. After an incredible effort, Amel designed furling gear of their own design for the masts and had  tools made to extrude raw aluminum spars and booms to their exact specifications. These spars were delivered to Amel where the furling systems were installed after the spars were painted by a subcontractor. Rather than buy someone else’s spars, Amel took the path of making their own so they would never be put in a situation where on time delivery of an Amel depended on someone other than themselves.

 

The problem with the NIRVANA built spars is that NIRVANA went back into business under different ownership but they did not offer support for the furling masts thay had built before. Many parts of these NIRVANA spars must be created by talented people if they fail and can be quite costly.

 

Have Fun With Your Amel, Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY 

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

 



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Re: Early Amel in-mast furling (c1985)

jdbedforduk@...
 

Thank you James, that is what I suspected but really wanted confirmation.

From the comments received from yourself and Joel I surmise that the reefing is perfectly reliable but if spares are required then these will require local fabrication as off the shelf spares are not available.

What a wonderful source of help and information this group is!

Re: Early Amel in-mast furling (c1985)

jdbedforduk@...
 

Thank you Joel for a very comprehensive response. The article I am referring to is here > http://www.jordanyachts.com/archives/2948

Many thanks

John