Date   

Raising the waterline aft on SM

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hello all:


As the hull repairs progress on our hull #335 SM from the Hurricane Maria/Irma damage, the idea of raising the waterline aft is being considered.  


Every Amel I have ever seen, regardless of model, does not set level on their lines ( waterline level with the water).  They  all have the waterline higher, by a significant amount, forward.  I noted this when I toured the factory when our boat was being built (looking at the waterline on the boats in the test tank at Chantiers Amel) and asked Jean-Jacque Lemonier (the CEO of Amel at the time) about it.  He replied that it was just because the rigging wasn't in place and assured me that it would be level once the rigging was in place.  Either we mis-communicated or every Amel ever built was intentionally made with the waterline higher forward.  


My aft anti-fouling isn't high enough to be effect, especially under the overhang of the transom and I am always scrubbing soft growth off that area as well as the bootstirpe for about 10 ft forward.  


Bill Rouse raised his waterline slightly along the entire length of the boat by eliminating the white stripe below the original bootstripe.  What I am proposing is leaving the bootstripe where it is forward and raising it 6 inches aft with a continuous level-line between.  It would still be higher forward than aft, but less of a gradient than the original.


I am seeking info from anyone with inside knowledge of why Amel made the boats like this and any experience with raising the waterline aft (both cosmetically and in solving the scrubbing problem). 


Thanks, 


Gary S. Silver, original and only owner

Amel SM 2000 #335

s/v Liahona

At Island Marine, Inc. yard at Puerto Del Rey Marina, Puerto Rico




Re: Propshaft wearing ring

rossirossix4
 

BTW--during the correspondence and postings I referred to the surface as "stainless".  I realize that the material is most likely chromed.
Bob


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh Water Pump

Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

Hi Peter,

I installed a constant pressure/variable output Marco Pump E12 a few months ago.

No accumulator tank needed either and sufficient pressure to wash your decks!

Jean-Pierre



On 12 May 2018, at 01:02, Denis Elborn delborn@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi Peter,


Penguin refrigeration sell them in the UK.

Denis
Aventura 54-113


On 11 May 2018, at 1:13 pm, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,


Yes and Maud said she couldn’t get one. Now I know what you say I will try again.

Many thanks - where is your boat 152?

Peter

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730

On 11 May 2018, at 10:48, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Peter

Just 6 months ago I got a new one from Maud. 
Expensive, but it was there in a week. 
Have you asked Amel?

Porter
54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On May 11, 2018, at 4:23 AM, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I am finding great difficulty finding a European source for the fresh water pump on my 54. The existing seems to draw 1 amp and pump 6 litres a minute. I can find one that draws 3.7 amps but I don’t know if that will be too much for that frigoboat circuit.

Any ideas?

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Props and rpm

Patrick McAneny
 

Jean- Pierre, I assume that would be logical considering the torque curve. I agree, I don't want to know what 4500 revs sounds like. Looks like you find yourself in a Bit of Paradise !
Enjoy I'm envious,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air jgermain@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, May 15, 2018 7:43 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Props and rpm

 
Hi Pat,

Volvo says their engine can deliver unto 4500 rpm.  However, because power is not fully dependent on rpm but on torque, Amel decided to accept 3000 rpm as the normal maximum rpm.  This is because the torque curve of the TDM22 is such that near full HP is available at that rpm.

My previous boat had a TDM22 as well and that was set to 4500 rpm… tou don’t want to do this… trust me!!!

Just ensure your TC is on full open for 1 hour every 10.  Your engine will remain healthy with this small bit of Italian tune up!

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007,
Fakarava Atoll, Tuamotus, French Polynesia.


On 13 May 2018, at 07:29, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I had flexofold suggest a prop and pitch that would allow the engine reach its max rpm , in my case 4500 . I now just read on the Max prop website , that their prop would also allow the engine to reach full rpm ,"in flat water." I wrote back to Flexofold that this did not sound correct , as my fixed prop does not allow me to get beyond 3000, and I have not read about anyone else able to reach rpms that high. I would think  reaching max torque would be the goal . Should a prop/ pitch allow an engine to obtain max rpms ? I don't know what to think or what is correct on this subject, and I may owe Flexofold a retraction.
Thanks,
Pat
SM #123



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] clean the sea water intake

Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

EASY.  Close the Through hull.  Use a manual bilge pump/wet and dry vacuum cleaner and empty the pipe.

Then fill the pipe with household white vinegar.. let stand 24 hours and reopen the through hull.

Watch all the scum flow out.

Good luck,

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007
Fakarava Atoll, Tuamotus, French Polynesia

On 10 May 2018, at 15:10, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Cear amelians,
what is the best tool / method to clean the WHOLE pipe that goes from the sea water filter all the way down to the sea water intake in the hull (while boat is in water)?

Thanks for your advice,
Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Props and rpm

Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

Hi Pat,

Volvo says their engine can deliver unto 4500 rpm.  However, because power is not fully dependent on rpm but on torque, Amel decided to accept 3000 rpm as the normal maximum rpm.  This is because the torque curve of the TDM22 is such that near full HP is available at that rpm.

My previous boat had a TDM22 as well and that was set to 4500 rpm… tou don’t want to do this… trust me!!!

Just ensure your TC is on full open for 1 hour every 10.  Your engine will remain healthy with this small bit of Italian tune up!

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007,
Fakarava Atoll, Tuamotus, French Polynesia.


On 13 May 2018, at 07:29, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I had flexofold suggest a prop and pitch that would allow the engine reach its max rpm , in my case 4500 . I now just read on the Max prop website , that their prop would also allow the engine to reach full rpm ,"in flat water." I wrote back to Flexofold that this did not sound correct , as my fixed prop does not allow me to get beyond 3000, and I have not read about anyone else able to reach rpms that high. I would think  reaching max torque would be the goal . Should a prop/ pitch allow an engine to obtain max rpms ? I don't know what to think or what is correct on this subject, and I may owe Flexofold a retraction.

Thanks,

Pat

SM #123




Replacement Head/Shower Faucets for SM

Dan Taylor
 

Greetings all, I am a first time poster and proud Amel Owner. 


First off, I want to thank publicly Joel Potter and Bill Rouse. They went the extra effort in answering and guiding me through the section and buying process.  


Secondly, I have contacted numerous Amel owners that Joel and Bill have introduced, the feedback and information has reinforced my decision that Amel owners take care of their own. Thank you all for your support as I become familiar with my Amel.


Finally, I would like to replace the head faucets and handles.  Has anyone performed this and if so, what make/model/size did you use?


Thanks,

Dan

SV FlyGirl 

San Diego, CA

SM 116




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Propshaft wearing ring

karkauai
 

Hmmm, have you tried it yet? Maybe not an ideal situation.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On May 15, 2018, at 3:36 PM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Does anybody know the size of the Speedi-Sleeve needed for the WOB? I remember someone posted it but can’t find it now.
If 316 stainless isn’t hard enough, what material is recommended for a machined WOB or Speedi-Sleeve?

Thanks
Kent
-----------------------------------------
Hi Kent, 
I posted the recommendation of the SKF engineer last week - if you missed it I've copied it below. Bottom line, though was he recommended 17-4 stainless, not 316.

I found the Speedi-Sleeve problematic. They don't come long enough to cover 3 seals, so you have to install two of them, removing the flange on the second one. That leaves a bit of a burr that you have to slide the seals over. The size would be the same diameter as your lip seal.

Cheers, Craig
Original message copied below:
:Hi Jose, see my original post under your question below.  Bottom line from the SKF engineer, inner seal facing oil, two outer ones facing the water. Use MUCH harder metal for the bearing than Amel used.
Cheers, Craig, SN68 Sangaris, Ft. Pierce, FL
---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :
Thank you, Craig,
That makes sense.  What did the SFK expert tell you about the orientation of the seals?
Good winds
Jose
---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

As we've all experienced, the bronze "wearing-out bushing" (as Amel refers it) gets, well, worn out and grooved from the lip seals. Then water leaks into the oil and we see the tell-tale "chocolate milk" colored oil that says it's time to haul out and replace the seals (cheap) and the "wearing-out bushing" (typically dear in price if supplied by Amel.)
I've had two thoughts on this: switch to a harder bushing of stainless steel and/or try a new (to me) lip seal design by SKF called the Wave Seal. It has the lip in a sinusoidal pattern that spreads the wearing area on the bushing. (SKF is "the world leader in bearing technology.")
I ran this by SKF's engineering department who were most responsive. Here's what their take was on the issue:
"Craig, 
My educated guess is that the seals are not an issue in this application. The problem is with the Bronze bushing that is being used as a sealing surface. Bronze is generally quite soft and might not have the required hardness of Rockwell C 30 or higher. You have a few options to solve this issue:
• You can put SKF speedi-sleeve gold on the shaft (P/N 99830). You will probably have to install multiple sleeves as you have 3 seals next to each other.
• You can replace the bronze bushing with a hardened wear sleeve for better abrasion resistance. We can offer you a custom wear sleeve if needed.
• You can plate your bushing with a harder material (Chrome, ceramic, etc) to make it wear resistant.
Essentially, the harder the shaft is, the less grooving it will see. I also suggest you to make sure that you grease pack the area between the seals to make sure that the seals not in contact with the oil are well lubricated. A lack of lubrication can cause the seal and surface to wear quicker. Finally I would arrange the seals with 2 facing the water and one facing the oil as long as there is no pressure difference. 
Best regards, Jaydeep Laljani, Application Engineer, SKF USA

I wrote back and said:
"Many thanks for your analysis. Frankly, I have wondered why the manufacturer used Bronze in the first place and not stainless - they actually call it a "wearing-out bushing" (but then they do charge a lot for replacements :-). 
Next month I'm returning to the boat, which is in Turkey, and I can easily have a local shop turn a new bushing in 316 Stainless (the same material as the shaft and propeller, so no electrolysis issues.) I think that would solve the problem without going to sleeves or plating. 
As for the orientation of the seals, I like your suggestion of two facing the water and will do that the next time I change the seals. After all, we're really trying to keep the water out more than keeping the oil in. And, yes, indeed, I always pack the seals with a good water-proof grease and that helps, I'm sure. "

Jaydeep replied with:
"I think you might not get as much life as you want with 316 SS as it is still not up to the required hardness. If you want to go Stainless I recommend 17-4 Stainless steel which is harder. If you are going with the 316 SS I would recommend you to passivate it to improve corrosion resistance. "

So that's the story which I thought might be of interest to the group. I hauled last year and only haul every three years, plus the new seals I put on then only have 300 hours and are not yet leaking so I'll report back in 2015 when I haul again and install a new 17-4 Stainless Steel "Not Wearing-Out Bushing" with two seals facing out!

Cheers, Craig Briggs
s/v SANGARIS, 1992 Santorin #68, Didim Turkey

PS; Update in 2018; never did get around to the 17-4 SS bearing, but used SKF speedie sleeves with inconclusive results; Next tried centrifugal rebabitting of the WOB; again, not much difference. Just last week installed a new Amel bronze bearing, "by-the-book" with two seals toward oil and one toward water. We'll see.


Re: Propshaft wearing ring

Craig Briggs
 

---In amelyachtowners@..., <karkauai@...> wrote :

Does anybody know the size of the Speedi-Sleeve needed for the WOB? I remember someone posted it but can’t find it now.
If 316 stainless isn’t hard enough, what material is recommended for a machined WOB or Speedi-Sleeve?

Thanks
Kent
-----------------------------------------
Hi Kent, 
I posted the recommendation of the SKF engineer last week - if you missed it I've copied it below. Bottom line, though was he recommended 17-4 stainless, not 316.

I found the Speedi-Sleeve problematic. They don't come long enough to cover 3 seals, so you have to install two of them, removing the flange on the second one. That leaves a bit of a burr that you have to slide the seals over. The size would be the same diameter as your lip seal.

Cheers, Craig
Original message copied below:
:Hi Jose, see my original post under your question below.  Bottom line from the SKF engineer, inner seal facing oil, two outer ones facing the water. Use MUCH harder metal for the bearing than Amel used.
Cheers, Craig, SN68 Sangaris, Ft. Pierce, FL
---In amelyachtowners@..., <jvenegas@...> wrote :
Thank you, Craig,
That makes sense.  What did the SFK expert tell you about the orientation of the seals?
Good winds
Jose
---In amelyachtowners@..., <sangaris@...> wrote :

As we've all experienced, the bronze "wearing-out bushing" (as Amel refers it) gets, well, worn out and grooved from the lip seals. Then water leaks into the oil and we see the tell-tale "chocolate milk" colored oil that says it's time to haul out and replace the seals (cheap) and the "wearing-out bushing" (typically dear in price if supplied by Amel.)
I've had two thoughts on this: switch to a harder bushing of stainless steel and/or try a new (to me) lip seal design by SKF called the Wave Seal. It has the lip in a sinusoidal pattern that spreads the wearing area on the bushing. (SKF is "the world leader in bearing technology.")
I ran this by SKF's engineering department who were most responsive. Here's what their take was on the issue:
"Craig, 
My educated guess is that the seals are not an issue in this application. The problem is with the Bronze bushing that is being used as a sealing surface. Bronze is generally quite soft and might not have the required hardness of Rockwell C 30 or higher. You have a few options to solve this issue:
• You can put SKF speedi-sleeve gold on the shaft (P/N 99830). You will probably have to install multiple sleeves as you have 3 seals next to each other.
• You can replace the bronze bushing with a hardened wear sleeve for better abrasion resistance. We can offer you a custom wear sleeve if needed.
• You can plate your bushing with a harder material (Chrome, ceramic, etc) to make it wear resistant.
Essentially, the harder the shaft is, the less grooving it will see. I also suggest you to make sure that you grease pack the area between the seals to make sure that the seals not in contact with the oil are well lubricated. A lack of lubrication can cause the seal and surface to wear quicker. Finally I would arrange the seals with 2 facing the water and one facing the oil as long as there is no pressure difference. 
Best regards, Jaydeep Laljani, Application Engineer, SKF USA

I wrote back and said:
"Many thanks for your analysis. Frankly, I have wondered why the manufacturer used Bronze in the first place and not stainless - they actually call it a "wearing-out bushing" (but then they do charge a lot for replacements :-). 
Next month I'm returning to the boat, which is in Turkey, and I can easily have a local shop turn a new bushing in 316 Stainless (the same material as the shaft and propeller, so no electrolysis issues.) I think that would solve the problem without going to sleeves or plating. 
As for the orientation of the seals, I like your suggestion of two facing the water and will do that the next time I change the seals. After all, we're really trying to keep the water out more than keeping the oil in. And, yes, indeed, I always pack the seals with a good water-proof grease and that helps, I'm sure. "

Jaydeep replied with:
"I think you might not get as much life as you want with 316 SS as it is still not up to the required hardness. If you want to go Stainless I recommend 17-4 Stainless steel which is harder. If you are going with the 316 SS I would recommend you to passivate it to improve corrosion resistance. "

So that's the story which I thought might be of interest to the group. I hauled last year and only haul every three years, plus the new seals I put on then only have 300 hours and are not yet leaking so I'll report back in 2015 when I haul again and install a new 17-4 Stainless Steel "Not Wearing-Out Bushing" with two seals facing out!

Cheers, Craig Briggs
s/v SANGARIS, 1992 Santorin #68, Didim Turkey

PS; Update in 2018; never did get around to the 17-4 SS bearing, but used SKF speedie sleeves with inconclusive results; Next tried centrifugal rebabitting of the WOB; again, not much difference. Just last week installed a new Amel bronze bearing, "by-the-book" with two seals toward oil and one toward water. We'll see.


Re: Propshaft wearing ring

karkauai
 

Does anybody know the size of the Speedi-Sleeve needed for the WOB? I remember someone posted it but can’t find it now.
If 316 stainless isn’t hard enough, what material is recommended for a machined WOB or Speedi-Sleeve?

Thanks
Kent


Re: Propshaft wearing ring

Jose Venegas
 

Bob, 
thanks for the report.  The results you show are impressive.

Craig,  
we are in total agreement.  One way or another this problem will be resolved, at least for those of us who seem unable to follow Amel's recommendations correctly.    It may take some time since each experiment takes at least 2 years to get results but the combination of theory and experimentation will get us there, I am sure.

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SMK2 278
Boston


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, The quote described it as 22x16 70 mm hub , I took a couple of measurements of the diameter with a caliper , two as it is tapered . I will confirm with Maud before placing an order.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Mon, May 14, 2018 9:15 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

 
Pat,

For the classic model MaxProp, the pitch is adjustable over a wide range, so for purchase the numbers that are critical are the prop diameter and the bore for the shaft.  If you need confirmation, I am in the Bahamas, so can go overboard with a tape measure and confirm the prop diameter...   My recollection for the shaft dimension is 35mm... but confirm that before you sign anything!

The primary thing about the Classic that is different on the newer models is changing the pitch requires complete disassembly of the hub. PYI officially says this must be done out of the water, but they do have a list of divers who can tackle the job that they will share if asked.  The only one I personally know works in San Francisco Bay...

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Little San Salvador, Bahamas


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Experiemental Chromed WOB Provided by Amel

Mark Erdos
 

Ruedi,

 

Here is her contact information:

 

Maud TOUILLET

Service clientèle – Customer service

sav@...

Phone : +33 (0) 546 55 00 75

 

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 3:15 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Experiemental Chromed WOB Provided by Amel

 

 

Dear Amelies

 

I have seen that some of you are talking about a lady called Maud @AMEL where you can get parts from.

Can someone give me her e-Mail Address? 

 

I’m new with AMEL and I would very much appreciate to get some useful e-mail address at AMEL. For technical questions, Parts ordering, etc…

 

Thanks to the group and 

Btw: This user group is a great source for may questions, … its my preferred reading, I love it;-)

Ruedi

 

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "sangaris@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Freitag, 11. Mai 2018 um 15:27
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Experiemental Chromed WOB Provided by Amel

 

 

Bob and Suzanne,

Many thanks for updating us on the WOB. It sounds like Amel recognizes the problem and is working to fix it. Good to hear that Bill Rouse is also encouraging Amel to improve the original design and that the "Amel Way" can evolve when shortcomings are found. A little disappointing, though, that Amel hasn't moved more quickly and is still supplying the original WOB's that are clearly not hard enough.

Cheers,

Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Hi Everyone,

Given recent postings on the WOB and my experience about a month ago I think it is a good time to post regarding an experiemental WOB that I had received from Amel.  I had received it in March, 2014 and thought, mistakenly that this was simply the new design that AMEL provided.  Instead, I learned later that these were trial versions that Amel had somehow provided to me.  Not sure if anyone else got them.  So here are the pics I posted back in September,  2014 -- https://www.dropbox.com/sc/1tompsdjss3rr0r/AACGUoVzzawY5RnlyKpnjwRga

.

In a phone conversation with Maud she confirmed that Amel was trying these out.  About 2 years ago I had installed this new type WOB in Turkey and changed it here in Malta and examined it carefully (note we visited Croatia and Venice on the way back, so the miles are there).  Please also note that I am making no claims about whether Amel should convert to these but I will tell you what I reported to Amel--which is that I was replacing the O ring inside and re-using the WOB!  Below is the content of my email to Maud and her response back to me.  I thought it was important to provide the information to Amel and give them time before placing it in front of the group.  Please also note that Adm Bill was privy to the info and he has contacted Amel to suggest they consider switching to the new WOB.

 

OK...the email to Maud on April 4 and her response on April 5.

 

"Hi Maud,

 

About 3.5 years ago you sent me an "experimental" WOB that Amel was trying out.  It is a normal bronze WOB with a stainless surface where the lip seals mount.  I was confused about it but in a later telephone conversation you talked with someone at Amel and then explained to me that Amel was trying out the new special WOB.  I promised to mount it and report back to you.

 

I serviced the Amel drive on my Super Maramu KAIMI #429 about 2 years ago and installed the special WOB.  Last week I serviced it again. There was virtually no wear on the WOB.  There was no evidence of water in the drive oil (90 wt) and the springs inside the seals were not rusted (I pack them with grease).

 

It is my impression that the WOB did very well.  While I could see some "polishing" could not detect any ridge or groove with my fingernail and I replaced the O ring inside the WOB and am re-using the WOB.   I plan to report back again on the next service in a year or 2.

 

I have included a link to photos of the removed WOB.  For comparison I show a regular used WOB.  You are welcome to forward this email to any others at Amel and I will be happy to answer any other questions that you have.

 

Click on individual images for larger photo --

 

Robert Rossi  SM#429 KAIMI"



Response back from Maud-- 

"Dear Robert,

Thank you for your nice message and detailed report. I will forward the results of your test to the AMEL technical department and I am certain they will be glad to hear it is very positive.

Thank you again for being such a supportive customer!!

Have a nice day.

With my kindest regards,

 

Maud TOUILLET

Service clientèle/Customer service"

 

Highlights--I could detect NO wear other than a bit of polishing where normally you would see a groove...note the used bronze version as a comparison.  There was no evidence of water in the 90 wt oil which I actually ran back through my Mr.Funnel to see if there was water--none-- and now have re-stored for possible future use.  Note also that there was no noticeable rust on the springs in the seals.  And, as noted, I am re-using the WOB.  We plan on pulling out for hurricane season in the Caribbean 14 months from now and I will re-check it.  Ironically, the entire process left me kind of upset with myself for even doing the change! 

 

 

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM429 Gozo in the Maltese archipelago

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage

Barry Connor
 

Hi Ruedi,
When I tracked down the leak it was the cables from the control box on the shelf going to the TV. Took out the old TV and can still use the Bose system for radio only. The CD/DVD in the control unit does not work and needs to be replaced, but with latest technology we don’t bother with CD’s and DVD’s now. I have not changed much, trying to keep all as original.
Best Regards 

Barry and Penny Connor
“Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Sailing ⛵️the Adriatic


On May 15, 2018, at 09:28, Rudolf Waldispuehl Rudolf@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Barry 
Yes I have Bose installed, GOOD idea.. Have check-it out without success :-(
The problem is that the leak is appearing very erratical and I haven’t found the pattern yet.
Thanks,… will follow-up

Ruedi & Sabina Waldispuehl
"SY WASABI"
Amel 54. #55

Sailing in Ägäis, Greece 

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "Barry Connor connor_barry@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Sonntag, 13. Mai 2018 um 13:56
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage

 

Hi Ruedi,

Do you have the Bose entertainment? I had a leak and disconnected things one by one. I found the leak was the salon TV. Disconnected the TV from the system and have not had any current leaks since.

Best Regards
Barry

Barry and Penny Connor
“Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Sailing in the Adriatic 


On May 13, 2018, at 10:30, Rudolf Waldispuehl Rudolf@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi everyone 

I do have the same strange behaviour with the 24V negative leak. Sorry, I’m late with my response because I was not on WASABI and tried to trace down last few days.

I found a leak at the Furuno heading sensor box. But from time to time (comes and goes daily) I have a strong Neg. leak. Which I found initially on the forward toilette pump and was happy I could reproduce the leak. Problem solved! 

Few days later I got the same pattern back with the strong Negative leak again.. At this time it in not the Furuno sensor, nor the toilet pump. 
I have to disconnect all potential sources one by one again, which I have no time right now. Will do it later and report back.  

Fair winds
Ruedi 
"SY WASABI"
Amel 54. #55

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Mittwoch, 25. April 2018 um 16:06
An: Yahoo Group Amel <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage

 

Hi everyone, 

Our DC leakage detector is showing a leak on the negative. I investigated any AC charger + DC USB potential issue as mentioned previously on the group and didn't find any culprit. 

However, it highlighted this strange fact: when I push the switch up to test for bad connection between negative and grounding, the light comes on and slowly goes off in about 3 seconds. If I test again, it doesn't come on. I need to wait for 10 , 15 minutes for it to 'recharge'. It looks like a capacitor discharging. 

Has anybody experienced this before? Does it give a clue to what could be the source of the leak?

Otherwise I'll start the usual investigation disconnecting everything from the batteries end.

Thanks in advance,

Fair winds 

Thomas

S\V GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Saint Martin, FWI


Re: Propshaft wearing ring

mfmcgovern@...
 

Ruedi,

You can email Maud at "sav at amel.fr"

Mark McGovern
SM 440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Hi Barry 
Yes I have Bose installed, GOOD idea. Have check-it out without success :-(
The problem is that the leak is appearing very erratical and I haven’t found the pattern yet.
Thanks,… will follow-up

Ruedi & Sabina Waldispuehl
"SY WASABI"
Amel 54. #55

Sailing in Ägäis, Greece 

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "Barry Connor connor_barry@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Sonntag, 13. Mai 2018 um 13:56
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage

 

Hi Ruedi,

Do you have the Bose entertainment? I had a leak and disconnected things one by one. I found the leak was the salon TV. Disconnected the TV from the system and have not had any current leaks since.

Best Regards
Barry

Barry and Penny Connor
“Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Sailing in the Adriatic 


On May 13, 2018, at 10:30, Rudolf Waldispuehl Rudolf@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi everyone 

I do have the same strange behaviour with the 24V negative leak. Sorry, I’m late with my response because I was not on WASABI and tried to trace down last few days.

I found a leak at the Furuno heading sensor box. But from time to time (comes and goes daily) I have a strong Neg. leak. Which I found initially on the forward toilette pump and was happy I could reproduce the leak. Problem solved! 

Few days later I got the same pattern back with the strong Negative leak again.. At this time it in not the Furuno sensor, nor the toilet pump. 
I have to disconnect all potential sources one by one again, which I have no time right now. Will do it later and report back.  

Fair winds
Ruedi 
"SY WASABI"
Amel 54. #55

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Mittwoch, 25. April 2018 um 16:06
An: Yahoo Group Amel <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange 24DC leakage

 

Hi everyone, 

Our DC leakage detector is showing a leak on the negative. I investigated any AC charger + DC USB potential issue as mentioned previously on the group and didn't find any culprit. 

However, it highlighted this strange fact: when I push the switch up to test for bad connection between negative and grounding, the light comes on and slowly goes off in about 3 seconds. If I test again, it doesn't come on. I need to wait for 10 , 15 minutes for it to 'recharge'. It looks like a capacitor discharging. 

Has anybody experienced this before? Does it give a clue to what could be the source of the leak?

Otherwise I'll start the usual investigation disconnecting everything from the batteries end.

Thanks in advance,

Fair winds 

Thomas

S\V GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Saint Martin, FWI


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Experiemental Chromed WOB Provided by Amel

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Dear Amelies

I have seen that some of you are talking about a lady called Maud @AMEL where you can get parts from.
Can someone give me her e-Mail Address? 
 
I’m new with AMEL and I would very much appreciate to get some useful e-mail address at AMEL. For technical questions, Parts ordering, etc…

Thanks to the group and 
Btw: This user group is a great source for may questions, … its my preferred reading, I love it;-)
Ruedi

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "sangaris@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Freitag, 11. Mai 2018 um 15:27
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Experiemental Chromed WOB Provided by Amel

 

Bob and Suzanne,

Many thanks for updating us on the WOB. It sounds like Amel recognizes the problem and is working to fix it. Good to hear that Bill Rouse is also encouraging Amel to improve the original design and that the "Amel Way" can evolve when shortcomings are found. A little disappointing, though, that Amel hasn't moved more quickly and is still supplying the original WOB's that are clearly not hard enough.
Cheers,
Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Hi Everyone,
Given recent postings on the WOB and my experience about a month ago I think it is a good time to post regarding an experiemental WOB that I had received from Amel.  I had received it in March, 2014 and thought, mistakenly that this was simply the new design that AMEL provided.  Instead, I learned later that these were trial versions that Amel had somehow provided to me.  Not sure if anyone else got them.  So here are the pics I posted back in September,  2014 -- https://www.dropbox.com/sc/1tompsdjss3rr0r/AACGUoVzzawY5RnlyKpnjwRga
.
In a phone conversation with Maud she confirmed that Amel was trying these out.  About 2 years ago I had installed this new type WOB in Turkey and changed it here in Malta and examined it carefully (note we visited Croatia and Venice on the way back, so the miles are there).  Please also note that I am making no claims about whether Amel should convert to these but I will tell you what I reported to Amel--which is that I was replacing the O ring inside and re-using the WOB!  Below is the content of my email to Maud and her response back to me.  I thought it was important to provide the information to Amel and give them time before placing it in front of the group.  Please also note that Adm Bill was privy to the info and he has contacted Amel to suggest they consider switching to the new WOB.

OK...the email to Maud on April 4 and her response on April 5.

"Hi Maud,

About 3.5 years ago you sent me an "experimental" WOB that Amel was trying out.  It is a normal bronze WOB with a stainless surface where the lip seals mount.  I was confused about it but in a later telephone conversation you talked with someone at Amel and then explained to me that Amel was trying out the new special WOB.  I promised to mount it and report back to you.

I serviced the Amel drive on my Super Maramu KAIMI #429 about 2 years ago and installed the special WOB.  Last week I serviced it again. There was virtually no wear on the WOB.  There was no evidence of water in the drive oil (90 wt) and the springs inside the seals were not rusted (I pack them with grease).

It is my impression that the WOB did very well.  While I could see some "polishing" could not detect any ridge or groove with my fingernail and I replaced the O ring inside the WOB and am re-using the WOB.   I plan to report back again on the next service in a year or 2.

I have included a link to photos of the removed WOB.  For comparison I show a regular used WOB.  You are welcome to forward this email to any others at Amel and I will be happy to answer any other questions that you have.

Click on individual images for larger photo --

Robert Rossi  SM#429 KAIMI"

Response back from Maud-- 
"Dear Robert,
Thank you for your nice message and detailed report. I will forward the results of your test to the AMEL technical department and I am certain they will be glad to hear it is very positive.
Thank you again for being such a supportive customer!!
Have a nice day.
With my kindest regards,

Maud TOUILLET
Service clientèle/Customer service"

Highlights--I could detect NO wear other than a bit of polishing where normally you would see a groove...note the used bronze version as a comparison.  There was no evidence of water in the 90 wt oil which I actually ran back through my Mr.Funnel to see if there was water--none-- and now have re-stored for possible future use.  Note also that there was no noticeable rust on the springs in the seals.  And, as noted, I am re-using the WOB.  We plan on pulling out for hurricane season in the Caribbean 14 months from now and I will re-check it.  Ironically, the entire process left me kind of upset with myself for even doing the change! 


Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM429 Gozo in the Maltese archipelago
 
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

greatketch@...
 

Pat,

For the classic model MaxProp, the pitch is adjustable over a wide range, so for purchase the numbers that are critical are the prop diameter and the bore for the shaft.  If you need confirmation, I am in the Bahamas, so can go overboard with a tape measure and confirm the prop diameter...   My recollection for the shaft dimension is 35mm... but confirm that before you sign anything!

The primary thing about the Classic that is different on the newer models is changing the pitch requires complete disassembly of the hub. PYI officially says this must be done out of the water, but they do have a list of divers who can tackle the job that they will share if asked.  The only one I personally know works in San Francisco Bay...

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Little San Salvador, Bahamas
http://fetchinketch.net


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

Ian Townsend
 

Roger that. Interested. Standing by.

Ian
S/V Loca Lola II 
SM153

On May 14, 2018, at 7:47 PM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ian, They just sent me a quote for a 3 blade classic 22x16 for $3450. Per Joels suggestion I am going to speak with Maud and see what the pitch was when Amel  installed Max props on the SM years ago,I need to talk to her anyway.  PYI quote was higher $3,750., they suggested I call PYachts in Annapolis to see if I could get a discount and did. I am going to provide them with a wholesale number a friend gave me today and see if they can do better. Maybe buying two would get a better price.

Thanks,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Townsend smlocalola@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, May 14, 2018 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

 
That's great Pat. If you don't mind, can you please share what they tell you? Size, pitch and pricing. We are also considering a MaxProp to replace our three bladed fixed. Thx a bunch.

Ian
S/V Loca Lola II 
SM153

On May 14, 2018, at 1:30 PM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Bill, I spoke to Max Prop and he seemed pretty familiar with Amels and I am awaiting a quote. Thanks for the info.
Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, May 14, 2018 11:48 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

 
Pat, 

At full throttle, and a clean bottom, I motor at 8.1 knots at 3100 RPM.

My normal "around the harbor" cruising speed is 6 knots at 2000-2100 RPM

Once you go away from a fixed prop, it is my overall opinion is that the relative differences between the various prop options is so small in normal operation you'll never notice, so if I had to pick a new prop, I would pick the cheapest one that I felt was robust and well designed, and minimized maintenance.  If my passion was racing, I might be paying a premium for low drag, if I was on a motorsailor and put 1000 hours a year on my engine I might pay extra for improved motoring performance, but neither of those are on my valued added radar.

Only once have I ever feel like the boat could have used more power.  Coming out of the southern end of the Cape Cod Canal, with a following tide, into the te eth of the afternoon southeasterlies. (All the New England sailors on the forum are smiling knowingly about now...) 

The 25 knot winds driving straight into the south tidal current had kicked up miles of the shortest, steepest chop I have ever had the misfortune to have to motor into.  And motor was the only choice, the narrow channel was straight into the wind.  We made progress, but it was slow and very uncomfortable. As a small consolation, we were making slightly better time than the other boats around us. 

Once we got to deeper water where we could bear off and sail without the engine our VMG went way up, and we were a lot more comfortable--and we left those other boats, still motoring,  further behind on each tack.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie,
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill, I was going to buy a Autoprop from Alexandre , when Olivier informed me that the boats were modified to fit the Autoprop. I would be interested in the performance , eg. cruising speed /rpm ,max speed/rpm and appreciate your overall assessment of the Max prop on a SM.,particularly as you have the same engine I do.
Thanks
Pat SM#123



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

Patrick McAneny
 

Ian, They just sent me a quote for a 3 blade classic 22x16 for $3450. Per Joels suggestion I am going to speak with Maud and see what the pitch was when Amel  installed Max props on the SM years ago,I need to talk to her anyway.  PYI quote was higher $3,750., they suggested I call PYachts in Annapolis to see if I could get a discount and did. I am going to provide them with a wholesale number a friend gave me today and see if they can do better. Maybe buying two would get a better price.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Townsend smlocalola@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Mon, May 14, 2018 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

 
That's great Pat. If you don't mind, can you please share what they tell you? Size, pitch and pricing. We are also considering a MaxProp to replace our three bladed fixed. Thx a bunch.

Ian
S/V Loca Lola II 
SM153

On May 14, 2018, at 1:30 PM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Bill, I spoke to Max Prop and he seemed pretty familiar with Amels and I am awaiting a quote. Thanks for the info.
Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, May 14, 2018 11:48 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

 
Pat, 

At full throttle, and a clean bottom, I motor at 8.1 knots at 3100 RPM.

My normal "around the harbor" cruising speed is 6 knots at 2000-2100 RPM

Once you go away from a fixed prop, it is my overall opinion is that the relative differences between the various prop options is so small in normal operation you'll never notice, so if I had to pick a new prop, I would pick the cheapest one that I felt was robust and well designed, and minimized maintenance.  If my passion was racing, I might be paying a premium for low drag, if I was on a motorsailor and put 1000 hours a year on my engine I might pay extra for improved motoring performance, but neither of those are on my valued added radar.

Only once have I ever feel like the boat could have used more power.  Coming out of the southern end of the Cape Cod Canal, with a following tide, into the te eth of the afternoon southeasterlies. (All the New England sailors on the forum are smiling knowingly about now...) 

The 25 knot winds driving straight into the south tidal current had kicked up miles of the shortest, steepest chop I have ever had the misfortune to have to motor into.  And motor was the only choice, the narrow channel was straight into the wind.  We made progress, but it was slow and very uncomfortable. As a small consolation, we were making slightly better time than the other boats around us. 

Once we got to deeper water where we could bear off and sail without the engine our VMG went way up, and we were a lot more comfortable--and we left those other boats, still motoring,  further behind on each tack.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie,
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill, I was going to buy a Autoprop from Alexandre , when Olivier informed me that the boats were modified to fit the Autoprop. I would be interested in the performance , eg. cruising speed /rpm ,max speed/rpm and appreciate your overall assessment of the Max prop on a SM.,particularly as you have the same engine I do.
Thanks
Pat SM#123