Date   

Re: File /disk brake A54 slipping shaky.mov uploaded

 

Ralph,

I can explain the hydraulic part to you. The brake release hydraulic cylinder gets the hydraulic fluid and pressure from the ZF Hurth reversing transmission mounted on the main engine output. There is a bleed screw on the cylinder that you cannot miss. You will want to bleed all air from the cylinder, replacing lost fluid by adding it to the ZF Hurth reversing transmission. Probably any engine mechanic will have no problem helping you. 

I would be surprised if Maud helps you diagnose your problem from the video. One more issue is that the last time one of my clients tried to order the style brake pads that you have, he was told by Amel that these are no longer available and the only thing my client could do is order the entire new brake unit (photo in my previous email). This new brake unit does not fit exactly the same pattern as the older one, so there are some minor modifications needed to install the new one, again an engine mechanic will be able to help. 

I looked at the video again. I believe that there is something mechanically wrong and it has nothing to do with hydraulics, or worn brake shoes (which look good in the video). Possibly you would see the problem if you removed the bolt circled in the photo below. Maybe it is something simple.
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:28 PM Ralph Heilig <ralph.heilig@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Thank you Bill for your feedback!

I have ordered new brake pads from Maud. I also sent the video and waiting for a feedback.

I wanted to remove the whole brake but I have NO experience with hydraulics. Do I need a specialist for the hydraulic line to remove and remount? My fear is, if I decouple the hydraulic line from the braker I will lose hydraulic oil and air will get into the system. Also the two screws, that hold the brake on the bar look pretty hard to access.

So until now I could not evaluate the reason for the shaking. It is hard to find a marine mechanic in Italy with hydraulic disk brake know how....something very special.

Ralph


Re: File /disk brake A54 slipping shaky.mov uploaded

Courtney Gorman
 

If the pads are not pressing enough A short-term fix is to place a quarter or similar coin where the ram press is to engage the brakes this will stop your shaft from spinning while Sailing and get rid of the irritating noise


On Aug 2, 2020, at 1:28 PM, Ralph Heilig <ralph.heilig@...> wrote:



[Edited Message Follows]

Thank you Bill for your feedback!

I have ordered new brake pads from Maud. I also sent the video and waiting for a feedback.

I wanted to remove the whole brake but I have NO experience with hydraulics. Do I need a specialist for the hydraulic line to remove and remount? My fear is, if I decouple the hydraulic line from the braker I will lose hydraulic oil and air will get into the system. Also the two screws, that hold the brake on the bar look pretty hard to access.

So until now I could not evaluate the reason for the shaking. It is hard to find a marine mechanic in Italy with hydraulic disk brake know how....something very special.

Ralph


Re: File /disk brake A54 slipping shaky.mov uploaded

Ralph Heilig
 
Edited

Thank you Bill for your feedback!

I have ordered new brake pads from Maud. I also sent the video and waiting for a feedback.

I wanted to remove the whole brake but I have NO experience with hydraulics. Do I need a specialist for the hydraulic line to remove and remount? My fear is, if I decouple the hydraulic line from the braker I will lose hydraulic oil and air will get into the system. Also the two screws, that hold the brake on the bar look pretty hard to access.

So until now I could not evaluate the reason for the shaking. It is hard to find a marine mechanic in Italy with hydraulic disk brake know how....something very special.

Ralph


Re: File /disk brake A54 slipping shaky.mov uploaded

 

Ralph,

I saw your uploaded video.

I believe that either the nut circled in the below photo is loose, or the caliper frame next to the hydraulic ram is broken.
image.png

The caliper you have is no longer available and replaced by the same manufacturer with this one:
image.png

Contact SAV@...

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 11:20 AM main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io> wrote:

The following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io group.

By: ralph.heilig

Description:
A54 #144 disk brake is shaky, slipping in 6 kts +,


Change your notification settings


Our Group will be shut down for maintenance on 4 August 2020

 

Our Amel Yacht Owners Group and Subgroups will be shut down for up to 9 hours on 4 August 2020

Reason: Routine Maintenance
 
When: 0600 4 August UTC to 1500 4 August UTC
If you need a time/date converter from UTC to your local time, this link may help you: https://www.worldtimebuddy.com/
 
Description: The groups.io hosting provider is upgrading its hardware and during that period our group will be down.

Best,
 
CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


Mangonui Visit

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Charlie and Heather, you came to see us on Friday. I dont have any contact details for you. Can you contact me on simms@...

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl


Re: Onan Generator exhaust temperature switch - great price.

rossirossix4
 

I'll take one.  Bob Rossi, KAIMI  SM 429


Re: A54 Refrigeration Cooling Water Circulation Pump - Brushless Motor

Jamie Wendell
 

OK got it.


ZOOM Meeting with Battle Born LiFePO4 Lithium Batteries - Sat, 08/08/2020 20:00-21:00, Please RSVP #cal-reminder

main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Calendar <main@...>
 

Reminder: ZOOM Meeting with Battle Born LiFePO4 Lithium Batteries

When: Saturday, 8 August 2020, 20:00 to 21:00, (GMT+00:00) UTC

An RSVP is requested. Click here to RSVP

Description: If you are interested in Lithium batteries for your Amel, you should attend this presentation by Battle Born Batteries. Many of you know that Battle Born LiFePO4 Lithium batteries were installed in s/y DELOS. They have since been installed in several other Amels. 

I encourage you to RSVP early for this presentation.

Join Zoom Meeting
https://epfl.zoom.us/j/96789511226

Meeting ID: 967 8951 1226

Join by SIP
96789511226@...


Re: A54 Refrigeration Cooling Water Circulation Pump - Brushless Motor

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hi Jamie,

I think this is now a personal message? 

Anyway to avoid issues with the forum I think its better to discuss the technical details via Email. 
Please contact me under :


Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54 #39 
Martinique 

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 12:29 Jamie Wendell <mysticshadow54@...> wrote:
Oliver, are you going to market and produce the custom board you show in your video? If you can help me better understand what you are saying, I am assuming the following:
  1. You developed and have built a board that integrates the functions of the VESC with a VESC interface signal controller and now the N2K interface for the temperature sensors - an all-in-one board that will drive the BLDC motor directly via 3 temperature inputs that can be read on our standard NMEA 2000 bus?
  2. You will provide that to us Amelians if we want to order one from you, and if so, are you ready to sell the board you created and provide us wiring diagrams, etc.?
Are you still developing it? I can make what I am doing work, but certainly an all-in-one board would be far better than having a bunch of connected parts. I really want to keep it simple, but having the ability to read the temperatures over my N2K bus would really be a big plus. Doing so would allow us to be sure the pump is running and the refrigerators are not failing from a loss of coolant flow. I have digital readouts that give me visual temperature displays, but they are local only.
Thanks,

Jamie
Phantom A54 #44


Re: A54 Refrigeration Cooling Water Circulation Pump - Brushless Motor

 

I really hate to do this, but I am going to limit the number of posts to this thread to 15 total. 

Jamie, you and Oliver are halfway there and all of your posts are more or less brainstorming between only 2 people. I had a lot of complaints the last time where we had something approaching 100 posts on this subject, and as you know, there was never a solution except in one person's mind.

I am sure there are a lot of owners that want your final solution. I would love to see it, as well.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 11:29 AM Jamie Wendell <mysticshadow54@...> wrote:
Oliver, are you going to market and produce the custom board you show in your video? If you can help me better understand what you are saying, I am assuming the following:
  1. You developed and have built a board that integrates the functions of the VESC with a VESC interface signal controller and now the N2K interface for the temperature sensors - an all-in-one board that will drive the BLDC motor directly via 3 temperature inputs that can be read on our standard NMEA 2000 bus?
  2. You will provide that to us Amelians if we want to order one from you, and if so, are you ready to sell the board you created and provide us wiring diagrams, etc.?
Are you still developing it? I can make what I am doing work, but certainly an all-in-one board would be far better than having a bunch of connected parts. I really want to keep it simple, but having the ability to read the temperatures over my N2K bus would really be a big plus. Doing so would allow us to be sure the pump is running and the refrigerators are not failing from a loss of coolant flow. I have digital readouts that give me visual temperature displays, but they are local only.
Thanks,

Jamie
Phantom A54 #44


Re: A54 holding tank drain seasock

Peter de Groot
 

Hi Mike
I just went through the similar fix on SM207
We cut away the bottom half of the discharge funnel to be able to remove the stupid hose. Then we glassed in a fiberglass round tube, and reattached the bottom of the funnel
Nasty job for sure. But it beats find your holding tank contents flowing back through a leaking joker valve


Peter de Groot
La Querida sm207
Moss landing CA


Re: A54 Refrigeration Cooling Water Circulation Pump - Brushless Motor

Jamie Wendell
 

Oliver, are you going to market and produce the custom board you show in your video? If you can help me better understand what you are saying, I am assuming the following:
  1. You developed and have built a board that integrates the functions of the VESC with a VESC interface signal controller and now the N2K interface for the temperature sensors - an all-in-one board that will drive the BLDC motor directly via 3 temperature inputs that can be read on our standard NMEA 2000 bus?
  2. You will provide that to us Amelians if we want to order one from you, and if so, are you ready to sell the board you created and provide us wiring diagrams, etc.?
Are you still developing it? I can make what I am doing work, but certainly an all-in-one board would be far better than having a bunch of connected parts. I really want to keep it simple, but having the ability to read the temperatures over my N2K bus would really be a big plus. Doing so would allow us to be sure the pump is running and the refrigerators are not failing from a loss of coolant flow. I have digital readouts that give me visual temperature displays, but they are local only.
Thanks,

Jamie
Phantom A54 #44


Re: A54 Refrigeration Cooling Water Circulation Pump - Brushless Motor

Jamie Wendell
 

Thanks Oliver. Yes, I did see your posting, but I did not see any details about the controller you built.
Appreciate the tip about the ADUM and the reliability issues. I am looking but cannot find anything when I search.
What new motor are you using?
Jamie
Phantom A54 #44


Re: A54 Refrigeration Cooling Water Circulation Pump - Brushless Motor

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello Jamie,

You found this post about integrated motor controller? 


That includes all what is needed, no more VESC and an other controller to controll the VESC what is kind of double. 

An ADUMxxxx is not a board its a isolator to electrically isolate units.
Specially important as the VESC tends to backfire. 
I lost some chips by not using isolators.
With ADUM you will find siutable components. 
Also an USB isolator should be placed for safty when you experiment it might kill the USB port without. You are handling high power and inductive loads. 

I do not use the old frigoboat wires, its replaced by CAT7 wires with CANbus (and NMEA2000) 

The temperature sensors are on their own bus system.

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54#39 
Martinique 

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 11:09 Jamie Wendell <mysticshadow54@...> wrote:

Agree about the motor back-fire possibility. I will be using a MOSFET to prevent that, and carry a few spare systems - they are cheap to build. Plus, as you no doubt understand, systems will develop and improve over time as we think of new features and control schemes. Presumably, you installed temp sensors in your refrigerator boxes and used the original Amel wiring from the compressors to the E51385, thereby bypassing that box entirely. That certainly would be the best approach, but I have not yet gotten there.

What is the ARDUM xxxx board? Don't forget, my system is still in the prototype phase. I looked on your website and could not find anything new, other than the running motor video.

Thanks,

Jamie

Phantom A54 #44


Re: A54 Refrigeration Cooling Water Circulation Pump - Brushless Motor

Jamie Wendell
 

Oliver, I forgot to mention that the motor I bought is the H6368 190KV, which was I believe your original recommendation. That has a 10mm D-shaft, and we need an 8mm D-shaft. So I need to order an H5065 140KV.
Jamie
Phantom A54 #44


Re: A54 Refrigeration Cooling Water Circulation Pump - Brushless Motor

Jamie Wendell
 

Agree about the motor back-fire possibility. I will be using a MOSFET to prevent that, and carry a few spare systems - they are cheap to build. Plus, as you no doubt understand, systems will develop and improve over time as we think of new features and control schemes. Presumably, you installed temp sensors in your refrigerator boxes and used the original Amel wiring from the compressors to the E51385, thereby bypassing that box entirely. That certainly would be the best approach, but I have not yet gotten there.

What is the ARDUM xxxx board? Don't forget, my system is still in the prototype phase. I looked on your website and could not find anything new, other than the running motor video.

Thanks,

Jamie

Phantom A54 #44


Re: Winter berth between Livorno and Roma

richarddemuynck
 

We're in Porto Turistico di Roma since 7 years and very pleased with the vicinity of the most beautiful town of Rome, and the airport of Fiumicino. For servicing the boat we use the shipyard located in the harbour, which dispose over a huge travel lift.
If you are interested you can contact the harbour office with my greetings.


Re: A54 Refrigeration Cooling Water Circulation Pump - Brushless Motor

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hi Jamie,

I forgot to mention, if you wotk the VESC with an Arduino u need mandatory an isolater in between. 
It might burn the Arduino as they are on differen potentials. Or the motor fires back in some conditions. 
So better use an ARDUM xxxx to get it more stable. 
The way is also to controll the VESC by software not by switching it on and of and using a potentiometer, at last as final setup.

Hope that helped

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54#39 
Martinique 

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 10:32 Jamie Wendell <mysticshadow54@...> wrote:

By now most are familiar with the problems many of us have experienced with the Flojet/Frigoboat refrigeration water circulation pumps. Several of us who have Amel 54's have noted the very short life of the motors for these pumps when we are in very warm climates. There have been 2 long and potentially confusing threads on this complicated issue, so I decided to create a new one devoted to my solution…………..

The original goal was hopefully a new type of pump driven by a brushless DC motor. Unfortunately, finding a pump with a brushless motor that will work in the Amel service has proven quite elusive, as there are pluses and minuses with every type of pump available. While there are brushless motor-driven pumps out there, they are generally unsuitable, as they are centrifugal and hence need a constant prime. Additionally, some who have tested other types of pumps (gear driven for example) have reported that they are very loud and do not circulate the correct amount of cooling water. Then there is the issue of power requirements. We want a low-current solution.

As a new approach, a few of us have been pursuing a custom brushless motor design coupled to the normal Flojet pump. The Flojet pump is really a good design, as it is quiet and self-priming. Well, I have finally developed a working brushless motor using some of the hardware recommended by Oliver on Vela Nautica. He successfully implemented a brushless motor connected to the Flojet pump through an electronic speed controller, but the missing ingredient has always been the interface to the refrigeration compressors/pump interface.

I now have a prototype functioning system that includes the following components: Flipsky Brushless Motor, Flipsky VESC (controller), and the key component - a mini programmable control board called Arduino. I have not yet built the brackets needed to hold the motor, nor have I yet put all the parts into a small box to install in the engine room. I had to make sure the setup would work first, and I have just now confirmed that.

The motor will be attached to the pump body (cannibalized from the Flojet), eliminating the problematic brushed motor on the pump. Then you will connect the VESC to the motor and program it (using a PC/MAC) with included software (very simple to do through an automated setup and USB connection). And finally, you will connect the Arduino to the VESC and the Frigoboat pump interface (E51385). You have to program the Arduino as well, but again it is quite basic to do so through Arduino software (provided with the controller board). I also use a simple 10K-ohm potentiometer to control the motor speed in real time.
Here is the way my setup is going to work - sorry to have to be so technical, but figuring all this out has been an engineering challenge, and I do not want to overly confuse anyone.


The Frigoboat E51385 sends out a voltage signal (yes it is ultimately 12 volts) to the Arduino (can be direct through a 12V-5V voltage converter, an electronic 12V relay that connects to the Arduino through a NO dry contact, or via temperature sensors inside the refrigeration units). At the moment I am using the relay approach but may shift to temperature-sensor control, as that would allow the Arduino to change the motor speed in response to the fridge temperature(s), which I believe is what Oliver does. The Arduino senses the voltage, contact closing, or temperatures and then turns on the VESC, which then drives the motor at the speed selected by the potentiometer. You would not need the potentiometer if you use the temperature sensors, but that also means reconfiguring the wiring from the refrigeration units and installing sensors in the fridge boxes.
IT WORKS, and the power demand is quite low. Plus, the sky is the limit (with the Arduino), and anything you can dream up is possible with a few extra wires, sensors, and some basic programming. As noted, I still have to install all the components in a box, connect the motor to the Flojet pump body (need to fabricate a bracket of some sort), and mount everything in the engine room. All that is work for sure but not at all technical. Unfortunately, the motor I bought is not the right size to mate with the pump body, and I need to order the right one - yuk.
Once I get everything installed and finalized in my engine room, I will provide a parts list and a schematic for everyone to follow if they would like to make one of these. I will also provide photos so that all this stuff becomes clear.
Stay tuned. I hope to have the final setup within the next couple of weeks or so. If anyone wants to dive in now and get the parts, let me know. I can provide a list of components and better instructions.
Thanks,
Jamie
Phantom, A54 #44


Re: A54 Refrigeration Cooling Water Circulation Pump - Brushless Motor

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hi Jamie,

Good to hear u make progress. 

What motor did u get? 

I use now different motors than in the start. With improved bearings. 

I use now also stronger motors of my own custom order but still working without load on 150mA and with pump load on 500mA.
So very efficient. 
On our webside you can see a post about an integrated motor controller. It incorporates all and has ports for temperature sensors for. 
All Fridges or freezers inside, all compressor temperatures and Raw water manifold.
Adapting cooling pump to watertemperature and compressor temerature. 

So this is the way ahead. 

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54#39 
Martinique 

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 10:32 Jamie Wendell <mysticshadow54@...> wrote:

By now most are familiar with the problems many of us have experienced with the Flojet/Frigoboat refrigeration water circulation pumps. Several of us who have Amel 54's have noted the very short life of the motors for these pumps when we are in very warm climates. There have been 2 long and potentially confusing threads on this complicated issue, so I decided to create a new one devoted to my solution…………..

The original goal was hopefully a new type of pump driven by a brushless DC motor. Unfortunately, finding a pump with a brushless motor that will work in the Amel service has proven quite elusive, as there are pluses and minuses with every type of pump available. While there are brushless motor-driven pumps out there, they are generally unsuitable, as they are centrifugal and hence need a constant prime. Additionally, some who have tested other types of pumps (gear driven for example) have reported that they are very loud and do not circulate the correct amount of cooling water. Then there is the issue of power requirements. We want a low-current solution.

As a new approach, a few of us have been pursuing a custom brushless motor design coupled to the normal Flojet pump. The Flojet pump is really a good design, as it is quiet and self-priming. Well, I have finally developed a working brushless motor using some of the hardware recommended by Oliver on Vela Nautica. He successfully implemented a brushless motor connected to the Flojet pump through an electronic speed controller, but the missing ingredient has always been the interface to the refrigeration compressors/pump interface.

I now have a prototype functioning system that includes the following components: Flipsky Brushless Motor, Flipsky VESC (controller), and the key component - a mini programmable control board called Arduino. I have not yet built the brackets needed to hold the motor, nor have I yet put all the parts into a small box to install in the engine room. I had to make sure the setup would work first, and I have just now confirmed that.

The motor will be attached to the pump body (cannibalized from the Flojet), eliminating the problematic brushed motor on the pump. Then you will connect the VESC to the motor and program it (using a PC/MAC) with included software (very simple to do through an automated setup and USB connection). And finally, you will connect the Arduino to the VESC and the Frigoboat pump interface (E51385). You have to program the Arduino as well, but again it is quite basic to do so through Arduino software (provided with the controller board). I also use a simple 10K-ohm potentiometer to control the motor speed in real time.
Here is the way my setup is going to work - sorry to have to be so technical, but figuring all this out has been an engineering challenge, and I do not want to overly confuse anyone.


The Frigoboat E51385 sends out a voltage signal (yes it is ultimately 12 volts) to the Arduino (can be direct through a 12V-5V voltage converter, an electronic 12V relay that connects to the Arduino through a NO dry contact, or via temperature sensors inside the refrigeration units). At the moment I am using the relay approach but may shift to temperature-sensor control, as that would allow the Arduino to change the motor speed in response to the fridge temperature(s), which I believe is what Oliver does. The Arduino senses the voltage, contact closing, or temperatures and then turns on the VESC, which then drives the motor at the speed selected by the potentiometer. You would not need the potentiometer if you use the temperature sensors, but that also means reconfiguring the wiring from the refrigeration units and installing sensors in the fridge boxes.
IT WORKS, and the power demand is quite low. Plus, the sky is the limit (with the Arduino), and anything you can dream up is possible with a few extra wires, sensors, and some basic programming. As noted, I still have to install all the components in a box, connect the motor to the Flojet pump body (need to fabricate a bracket of some sort), and mount everything in the engine room. All that is work for sure but not at all technical. Unfortunately, the motor I bought is not the right size to mate with the pump body, and I need to order the right one - yuk.
Once I get everything installed and finalized in my engine room, I will provide a parts list and a schematic for everyone to follow if they would like to make one of these. I will also provide photos so that all this stuff becomes clear.
Stay tuned. I hope to have the final setup within the next couple of weeks or so. If anyone wants to dive in now and get the parts, let me know. I can provide a list of components and better instructions.
Thanks,
Jamie
Phantom, A54 #44