Date   
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Copper-Coat AntiFouling

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Thank you Mark

You’re right C-Drive Maintenance needs to be done anyhow all 2-3 years; … and bottom cleaning every 1-2 month in all cases, (with copper as well).
I have not discovered a qualified yard nearby by now. I have searched the Web and it seems that there are more arguments against. 

With best regards
Ruedi

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 15. Februar 2018 um 23:56
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Copper-Coat AntiFouling

 

Ruedi, if you search here you will find many opinions for and against. Perhaps less for Copper-Coat. My question to you is, where are the savings if you need to haul your Amel every couple of years anyway for prop and c-drive maintenance? A big factor in the savings talked about in the Copper-Coat literature is not having to haul the boat and the boat yard savings. This is not the case with Amels.

 

You don’t say where you are located. Is there a qualified yard that knows how to mix and apply Copper-Coat near you. I was told by Copper-Coat there was are yard near me when I was in Florida. I asked the yard how many boats they had done. The answer was only one.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Dominica

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 6:09 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Copper-Coat AntiFouling

 

 

Dear Amel'ies 

 

Maybe you had an earlier conversation on this topic already? I'm new here so I don't know.

 

Copper-coat AF seems to be attractive if it lasts 10 and more years, despite the fact of the high price. 

But I'm not sure all is right what I have read in the Internet.I have seen many articles and different opinions about copper-coat antifouling, some of them are very controversial. 



So I would like to know from this group your experience with it, if someone have done this. 

 

Thanks and best regards

Ruedi

Change of seals for gearbox oil change

Peter Forbes
 

Fellow Amelians,

Does any one know of a mechanic experienced enough to undertake change of prop gearbox seals on Amel 54 in Antigua.

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730
Carango
Amel 54
St Lucia en route to Antigua

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Boat Insurance///transmission Amel 54 IBIS

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Porter,

Yes, taking into consideration all of the history, I agree you only have 1 realistic and dependable choice. Do you plan to do it in St. Thomas?

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 6:54 AM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks Bill. Appreciated. 


Had a guy come out to the boat. We took the old filter back to his shop. Cut it open. Lots of metal inside. I am going to get a new transmission unless you argue against it. It solves both problems. Mystery air ( transmission guy here was also scratching his head as to a solution, and no he doesn’t sell tranny’s,) and metal loss on gears. 
I spoke to the ZF dealer in Florida. He said on all ZFs older than 4-5 years they would routinely machine off 10/1000” to make the cup fit into the cylinder. This was a common problem. 

Problem is I am dead in the water without a good tranny. 

Any guidance is always appreciated. 

Thanks
Porter. 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Anchor Locker

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

Moldy pywood can be saved. Just clean it, dry well and apply penetrating epoxy. Follow instructions. Your can add a layer of fiberglass on top if needed. 

Vladimir
SM 345 "LIFE IS GOOD"

On Feb 21, 2018 05:01, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Gerhard,


This has been a popular topic recently.  It seems that this year many Super Maramus (mine included) have reached the age where the plywood in the chain locker reached the end of its useful life.  The only reason I can see for not fully encapsulating the plywood in the chain locker is just manufacturing expedience. There are very few places where Amel took shortcuts, so I guess I can forgive them this one.  Where our wood was coated, it was coated with glass and resin, not simply paint.

If the plywood is "moldy" it is almost certainly past the point where it can be saved, although others with more wooden boat experience than I might have some useful suggestions.

We replaced the horizontal plywood in our boat completely, and ground off a layer or two from the vertical bulkhead down to hard, dry wood before covering it with fiberglass and resin.  If you dig back a few months in the forum archives you'll find a lot of discussion about the various approaches to this project.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Freeport, Bahamas



---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@...> wrote :


I take all the chain out every year to clean the anchor locker and as has been noted on previous posts, the plywood ceiling is always mouldy.  Does anybody know why the anchor locker is painted halfway up with white paint and the rest of the fiberglass is left bare and the plywood ceiling is left unpainted?  Has anybody painted the sides and especially the plywood ceiling?  If so, what paint was used?  Does anybody know what the existing white paint is?


Gerhard Hoffmann

Pepino SM381

Greece

 




On Feb 21, 2018 05:01, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Gerhard,


This has been a popular topic recently.  It seems that this year many Super Maramus (mine included) have reached the age where the plywood in the chain locker reached the end of its useful life.  The only reason I can see for not fully encapsulating the plywood in the chain locker is just manufacturing expedience. There are very few places where Amel took shortcuts, so I guess I can forgive them this one.  Where our wood was coated, it was coated with glass and resin, not simply paint.

If the plywood is "moldy" it is almost certainly past the point where it can be saved, although others with more wooden boat experience than I might have some useful suggestions.

We replaced the horizontal plywood in our boat completely, and ground off a layer or two from the vertical bulkhead down to hard, dry wood before covering it with fiberglass and resin.  If you dig back a few months in the forum archives you'll find a lot of discussion about the various approaches to this project.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Freeport, Bahamas



---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@...> wrote :


I take all the chain out every year to clean the anchor locker and as has been noted on previous posts, the plywood ceiling is always mouldy.  Does anybody know why the anchor locker is painted halfway up with white paint and the rest of the fiberglass is left bare and the plywood ceiling is left unpainted?  Has anybody painted the sides and especially the plywood ceiling?  If so, what paint was used?  Does anybody know what the existing white paint is?


Gerhard Hoffmann

Pepino SM381

Greece

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver

amelforme
 

Hanspeter, you can quit taking those crabby pills. They obviously work.

JOEL F. POTTER
CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST LLC
THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY
Office 954-462-5869 

On Feb 21, 2018, at 8:26 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

LOL

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Guadeloupe

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 8:39 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver

 

 

Hanspeter, I have owned my Amel and been a member of this group for 11 years and never realized that this group was strictly a "technical exchange platform" thanks for enlightening me and the rest of the group  . OOPS , I guess technically , this was was a technical post. Please disregard , Sorry !

Pat

SM#123

-----Original Message-----
From: 'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Feb 20, 2018 11:45 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver

 

Dear Mr.  Baileys and Danny

I don't like that you use this forum as an add and marketing platform. Insurance are different by countries. 

Mr. Baileys; you mentioned that we need an avocate at claim? My question ? who is paying the avocate ?

Looking forward that this platform remains as a technical exchange platform 

PS: there are lots of other social platforms to share individuels needs.

kr

Hanspeter

Tamango 2

SM16; Las Palmas



Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Am 19.02.2018 um 20:49 schrieb Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi All,

I received a personal email asking the name of the insurance company that disappointed us. It was Haven Knox Johnson, a Lloyds of London Company. The broker was The Marina Shop of Opua NZ and the Assessor was Steve Lott of New Zealand.

We have a new Broker, Baileys Insurance brokers of Auckland NZ, and a new insurer recommended by them. QBE Marine insurers. Steve Bailey the principal of the company is a sailor himself. As always until you have a claim you don't know the quality of the insurer and we have yet to have a claim under this cover.(and hope we never will) However we have confidence in our broker.

Regards

Danny 

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 17 February 2018 at 07:24 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,

Further to my below, no one said no so I copy here an email from my new broker sent after he read some of the posts.

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Hi all,

I’ve been reading some of the comments posted by many of you about pleasure craft insurance policies.

I feel very sorry for you, and agreed it is not a good situation at all – but it shouldn’t be that way, and sounds like you’ve not been getting the right advice or support here.  We always use “agreed value” policies and they have worked for us and our clients as they should, many, many times.  One just less than a week ago in fact.

What you need is an advocate at claim time to ensure the claims process goes as it should – in addition t o ensuring your policy is set up correctly.  This is where an experienced Marine Insurance Broker comes in – well, a good one anyway!

There are also certain Insurance Companies to avoid out there.  Their policies aren’t worth the paper they are written on.

Sincere regards,

Neil Bailey

Director

Bailey Insurance Brokers

Auckland

New Zealand

On 16 February 2018 at 14:27 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 60;

 

Hi all,

As I said before I was burned badly by an insurance company. I changed brokers and have a "agreed value" policy with my new broker.

I forwarded him some of the correspondence because, firstly I wanted him to know what was going on and secondly to see what he said regarding my "agreed Value" policy. He has sent me a response which is helpful. He does have a good name. Is it OK for me to share his reply with the group. I'm not trying to promote him, just to add something that may be helpful.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Mangonui 
New Zealand

 

On 16 February 2018 at 06:42 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Alexandre, Trust me, I for one will reread my policy with a more critical eye. Its disgusting how an insurance company would look for any excuse , even an invalid one to escape their responsibly .. I will guarantee that the vast majority of boaters are not aware of these practices, and believe that they have an umbrella of protection , that in reality does not exist. I urge you guys to find a way to tell your story to a wider audience. 

Pat 

SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 9:11 a m
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

 

Hello Pat,

I totally agree with you Danny.

This is why my lawyer said it was a rip off to start with.
You are paying in good faith a higher premium thinking you are covered, but you are not.

I URGE everybody to read their insurance policies.
Most of you probably never even receive it (I had to ask for mine).

I think as a boating community, if we group ourselves we have a way to make things better.

Example on my insurance policy it says in case of a name storm approaching you have to:
remove anything that offers wind resistance which is: bimini, sails, lazy bags, blade of wind turbine, dinghy, etc. these items must be removed and store inside the boat. As Rafael tragically find out, this also include barbecues.. That is why they say “anything” even if not listed....
Then it says the boom must be attached to the deck.
Then you have to close all unnecessary sea cock.
Valuable objects such as electronics must be disassembled and store on land....
Then you have to “triple” the number of normal fenders, dock lines, etc.
IF YOU FAIL TO DO ANY OF THESE, the policy is canceled.

I really implore Rafael to tell his story…

Last week I met a french guy, so we chat, he used to be hired by insurance adjuster to find “anything” on a boat. He said, if there was a fire, the insurance adjuster would hire him to find any electrical welding (if I u nderstood properly), as soon as they find 1, even if it is at the top of the mast, the policy is void and they don’t reimburse.
He said he was disgusted and like many sailor I met now simply has liability.

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/15/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups..com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:15 AM


 









The
insurance company based the premiums on the Agreed value ,
and then only will pay out based on what they determine the
market value is, because they don't want you to be
enriched ! Did they not e nrich themselves by charging
excessive premiums for coverage they probably never intended
to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to the
entire boating community through the internet and sailing
magazines . I encourage anyone treated unfairly to relate
their story , if  it results in lost business maybe they
will get the message. If 10% of those covered by a company
cancelled and took their business elsewhere and gave the
reason why , it would get their attention. Its sad to lose a
dream .
Pat 

SM Shenanigans






-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owne rs] Amel owner saying
goodbye








 













Good morning Danny,





I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de
Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it
is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right
to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market
value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case
of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the
agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more
than the market value).


That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to
compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that
1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value,
2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher
agreed value) 3) that my expens es were higher than the
average, etc...


So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all
the details.


We have been working since November on this.





So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an
“agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you
want I can show the specific section where what I just
explained is written. That will be in french in my case.





Sincerely, Alexandre





--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye


To: amely achtowners@...


Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM








 
































I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now


have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope
that


would help in the case of a write off.DannySM


299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19


"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...


[amelyachtowners]"


<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





  Dear Rafael,








I think you need to tell


the Group “your” story about the insu rance.





We have the same insurance


Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think


every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they


used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.





It is not “my” place to


tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I
will


write mine with all the details when it will be settled.






I am definitely sorry that


your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and
did


not had the joy of sailing her.





Sincerely, Alexandre








--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie


<no_reply@...>
wrote:





Subject: [Am el Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying


goodbye


To:


amelyachtowners@...


Date:


Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM








 





























Dear


friends AMEL ownersProbably this


will be


the last email that I send and I will withdraw from


the group. The reason is that Hurricane


Irma


destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be


impossible for me to


recover it.The


insurance will only pay a fraction of


what


it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and


other reasons.This situation not only


destroyed my< br>

ship but my dreams. My dreams


of living on board with my


wife, my dreams


of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my





dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other


seas


and finally returning to the beautiful


South of


Chile.


In this


group I gained friends


and knowledge and


for that, I thank each and every one of





you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the
beginning


helped me with their advice.





If


you sail to Chile you will have a


friend


here.Greetings to





all


Fair


windsRafaelSM2k


246










 
< /div>

 


 

 


 

 


 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Hanspeter, 

When I read your email regarding "marketing," I again read the thread. I can see no direct marketing by anyone.

Our group does not have published rules, but we have evolved with some unwritten rules of etiquette that have made this group one of the best available. The owner of the group is the only moderator, and I can think of only 2 times in 10 years that he moderated a discussion thread.

Many of us freely share successes and failures. These can involve parts, materials, vendors, and anything else involved with owning and maintaining or Amel. I believe that at least a few owners benefit with the shared information.

I urge you to re-read the post. I believe you will agree.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Feb 21, 2018 08:04, "simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear Hanspeter,
I am sorry you see my contributions as 'marketing'. It is not. It is no more or less than sharing information and experience to the benefit of everyone. In this case it is regarding insurance experience, A very troubled area. No different to sharing where to source a hard to find part. It is to the benefit of all. As with all sharing it is up to individual members to make their own judgement.
Kind regards
Danny

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 21 Feb 2018 1:46 p.m., "'hanspeter.baettig@bluemail.ch' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Dear Mr.  Baileys and Danny
I don't like that you use this forum as an add and marketing platform. Insurance are different by countries. 
Mr. Baileys; you mentioned that we need an avocate at claim? My question ? who is paying the avocate ?
Looking forward that this platform remains as a technical exchange platform 
PS: there are lots of other social platforms to share individuels needs.
kr
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16; Las Palmas


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 19.02.2018 um 20:49 schrieb Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>:

 

Hi All,

I received a personal email asking the name of the insurance company that disappointed us. It was Haven Knox Johnson, a Lloyds of London Company. The broker was The Marina Shop of Opua NZ and the Assessor was Steve Lott of New Zealand.

We have a new Broker, Baileys Insurance brokers of Auckland NZ, and a new insurer recommended by them. QBE Marine insurers. Steve Bailey the principal of the company is a sailor himself. As always until you have a claim you don't know the quality of the insurer and we have yet to have a claim under this cover.(and hope we never will) However we have confidence in our broker.

Regards

Danny 

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 17 February 2018 at 07:24 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,

Further to my below, no one said no so I copy here an email from my new broker sent after he read some of the posts.

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Hi all,

I’ve been reading some of the comments posted by many of you about pleasure craft insurance policies.

I feel very sorry for you, and agreed it is not a good situation at all – but it shouldn’t be that way, and sounds like you’ve not been getting the right advice or support here.  We always use “agreed value” policies and they have worked for us and our clients as they should, many, many times.  One just less than a week ago in fact.

What you need is an advocate at claim time to ensure the claims process goes as it should – in addition t o ensuring your policy is set up correctly.  This is where an experienced Marine Insurance Broker comes in – well, a good one anyway!

There are also certain Insurance Companies to avoid out there.  Their policies aren’t worth the paper they are written on.

Sincere regards,

Neil Bailey

Director

Bailey Insurance Brokers

Auckland

New Zealand

On 16 February 2018 at 14:27 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

60;

 

Hi all,

As I said before I was burned badly by an insurance company. I changed brokers and have a "agreed value" policy with my new broker.

I forwarded him some of the correspondence because, firstly I wanted him to know what was going on and secondly to see what he said regarding my "agreed Value" policy. He has sent me a response which is helpful. He does have a good name. Is it OK for me to share his reply with the group. I'm not trying to promote him, just to add something that may be helpful.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Mangonui 
New Zealand


On 16 February 2018 at 06:42 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Alexandre, Trust me, I for one will reread my policy with a more critical eye. Its disgusting how an insurance company would look for any excuse , even an invalid one to escape their responsibly .. I will guarantee that the vast majority of boaters are not aware of these practices, and believe that they have an umbrella of protection , that in reality does not exist. I urge you guys to find a way to tell your story to a wider audience. 

Pat 
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 9:11 a m
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

 
Hello Pat,

I totally agree with you Danny.

This is why my lawyer said it was a rip off to start with.
You are paying in good faith a higher premium thinking you are covered, but you are not.

I URGE everybody to read their insurance policies.
Most of you probably never even receive it (I had to ask for mine).

I think as a boating community, if we group ourselves we have a way to make things better.

Example on my insurance policy it says in case of a name storm approaching you have to:
remove anything that offers wind resistance which is: bimini, sails, lazy bags, blade of wind turbine, dinghy, etc. these items must be removed and store inside the boat. As Rafael tragically find out, this also include barbecues. That is why they say “anything” even if not listed...
Then it says the boom must be attached to the deck.
Then you have to close all unnecessary sea cock.
Valuable objects such as electronics must be disassembled and store on land...
Then you have to “triple” the number of normal fenders, dock lines, etc.
IF YOU FAIL TO DO ANY OF THESE, the policy is canceled.

I really implore Rafael to tell his story…

Last week I met a french guy, so we chat, he used to be hired by insurance adjuster to find “anything” on a boat. He said, if there was a fire, the insurance adjuster would hire him to find any electrical welding (if I u nderstood properly), as soon as they find 1, even if it is at the top of the mast, the policy is void and they don’t reimburse.
He said he was disgusted and like many sailor I met now simply has liability.

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/15/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:15 AM


 









The
insurance company based the premiums on the Agreed value ,
and then only will pay out based on what they determine the
market value is, because they don't want you to be
enriched ! Did they not e nrich themselves by charging
excessive premiums for coverage they probably never intended
to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to the
entire boating community through the internet and sailing
magazines . I encourage anyone treated unfairly to relate
their story , if  it results in lost business maybe they
will get the message. If 10% of those covered by a company
cancelled and took their business elsewhere and gave the
reason why , it would get their attention. Its sad to lose a
dream .
Pat 

SM Shenanigans






-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>

To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owne rs] Amel owner saying
goodbye








 













Good morning Danny,





I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de
Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it
is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right
to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market
value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case
of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the
agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more
than the market value).


That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to
compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that
1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value,
2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher
agreed value) 3) that my expens es were higher than the
average, etc...


So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all
the details.


We have been working since November on this.





So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an
“agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you
want I can show the specific section where what I just
explained is written. That will be in french in my case.





Sincerely, Alexandre





--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:





Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye


To: amely achtowners@...


Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM








 
































I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now


have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope
that


would help in the case of a write off.DannySM


299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19


"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...


[amelyachtowners]"


<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:





  Dear Rafael,








I think you need to tell


the Group “your” story about the insu rance.





We have the same insurance


Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think


every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they


used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.





It is not “my” place to


tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I
will


write mine with all the details when it will be settled.






I am definitely sorry that


your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and
did


not had the joy of sailing her.





Sincerely, Alexandre








--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie


<no_reply@...>
wrote:





Subject: [Am el Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying


goodbye


To:


amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com


Date:


Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM








 





























Dear


friends AMEL ownersProbably this


will be


the last email that I send and I will withdraw from


the group. The reason is that Hurricane


Irma


destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be


impossible for me to


recover it.The


insurance will only pay a fraction of


what


it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and


other reasons.This situation not only


destroyed my< br>

ship but my dreams. My dreams


of living on board with my


wife, my dreams


of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my





dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other


seas


and finally returning to the beautiful


South of


Chile.


In this


group I gained friends


and knowledge and


for that, I thank each and every one of





you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the
beginning


helped me with their advice.





If


you sail to Chile you will have a


friend


here.Greetings to





all


Fair


windsRafaelSM2k


246











 
< /div>

 


 

 


 

 


 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver

Ian Townsend
 

I agree with Danny and would like to see this conversation continue as may be relevant to us. Given what we, general Caribbean boaters and AMEL owners, have experienced this season, it is particularly relevant this year. Perhaps not as much if you are in other areas of the world. I use the last conversation string about Pantaenius as an example. No boats below 31. Saved me time from applying. Our insurer is/was Falvey who announced their exit from the yacht insurance business leaving us adrift so to speak. Now we are scrambling and trying to adjust our cruising plans for this summer. It's a big deal to us. So we appreciate all the advice given by our fellow AMEL owners.

Last thought, you don't have to read it if you don't want.

Ian Townsend
S/V Loca Lola II 
SM153
George Town, Exuma, Bahamas

On Feb 21, 2018, at 4:01 AM, simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Dear Hanspeter,
I am sorry you see my contributions as 'marketing'. It is not. It is no more or less than sharing information and experience to the benefit of everyone. In this case it is regarding insurance experience, A very troubled area. No different to sharing where to source a hard to find part. It is to the benefit of all. As with all sharing it is up to individual members to make their own judgement.
Kind regards
Danny

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 21 Feb 2018 1:46 p.m., "'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear Mr.  Baileys and Danny
I don't like that you use this forum as an add and marketing platform. Insurance are different by countries. 
Mr. Baileys; you mentioned that we need an avocate at claim? My question ? who is paying the avocate ?
Looking forward that this platform remains as a technical exchange platform 
PS: there are lots of other social platforms to share individuels needs.
kr
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16; Las Palmas


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 19.02.2018 um 20:49 schrieb Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi All,

I received a personal email asking the name of the insurance company that disappointed us. It was Haven Knox Johnson, a Lloyds of London Company. The broker was The Marina Shop of Opua NZ and the Assessor was Steve Lott of New Zealand.

We have a new Broker, Baileys Insurance brokers of Auckland NZ, and a new insurer recommended by them. QBE Marine insurers. Steve Bailey the principal of the company is a sailor himself. As always until you have a claim you don't know the quality of the insurer and we have yet to have a claim under this cover.(and hope we never will) However we have confidence in our broker.

Regards

Danny 

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 17 February 2018 at 07:24 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,

Further to my below, no one said no so I copy here an email from my new broker sent after he read some of the posts.

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Hi all,

I’ve been reading some of the comments posted by many of you about pleasure craft insurance policies.

I feel very sorry for you, and agreed it is not a good situation at all – but it shouldn’t be that way, and sounds like you’ve not been getting the right advice or support here.  We always use “agreed value” policies and they have worked for us and our clients as they should, many, many times.  One just less than a week ago in fact.

What you need is an advocate at claim time to ensure the claims process goes as it should – in addition t o ensuring your policy is set up correctly.  This is where an experienced Marine Insurance Broker comes in – well, a good one anyway!

There are also certain Insurance Companies to avoid out there.  Their policies aren’t worth the paper they are written on.

Sincere regards,

Neil Bailey

Director

Bailey Insurance Brokers

Auckland

New Zealand

On 16 February 2018 at 14:27 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 60;

 

Hi all,

As I said before I was burned badly by an insurance company. I changed brokers and have a "agreed value" policy with my new broker.

I forwarded him some of the correspondence because, firstly I wanted him to know what was going on and secondly to see what he said regarding my "agreed Value" policy. He has sent me a response which is helpful. He does have a good name. Is it OK for me to share his reply with the group. I'm not trying to promote him, just to add something that may be helpful.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Mangonui 
New Zealand


On 16 February 2018 at 06:42 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Alexandre, Trust me, I for one will reread my policy with a more critical eye. Its disgusting how an insurance company would look for any excuse , even an invalid one to escape their responsibly .. I will guarantee that the vast majority of boaters are not aware of these practices, and believe that they have an umbrella of protection , that in reality does not exist. I urge you guys to find a way to tell your story to a wider audience. 

Pat 
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 9:11 a m
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

 
Hello Pat,

I totally agree with you Danny.

This is why my lawyer said it was a rip off to start with.
You are paying in good faith a higher premium thinking you are covered, but you are not.

I URGE everybody to read their insurance policies.
Most of you probably never even receive it (I had to ask for mine).

I think as a boating community, if we group ourselves we have a way to make things better.

Example on my insurance policy it says in case of a name storm approaching you have to:
remove anything that offers wind resistance which is: bimini, sails, lazy bags, blade of wind turbine, dinghy, etc. these items must be removed and store inside the boat. As Rafael tragically find out, this also include barbecues. That is why they say “anything” even if not listed...
Then it says the boom must be attached to the deck.
Then you have to close all unnecessary sea cock.
Valuable objects such as electronics must be disassembled and store on land...
Then you have to “triple” the number of normal fenders, dock lines, etc.
IF YOU FAIL TO DO ANY OF THESE, the policy is canceled.

I really implore Rafael to tell his story…

Last week I met a french guy, so we chat, he used to be hired by insurance adjuster to find “anything” on a boat. He said, if there was a fire, the insurance adjuster would hire him to find any electrical welding (if I u nderstood properly), as soon as they find 1, even if it is at the top of the mast, the policy is void and they don’t reimburse.
He said he was disgusted and like many sailor I met now simply has liability.

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/15/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:15 AM


 









The
insurance company based the premiums on the Agreed value ,
and then only will pay out based on what they determine the
market value is, because they don't want you to be
enriched ! Did they not e nrich themselves by charging
excessive premiums for coverage they probably never intended
to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to the
entire boating community through the internet and sailing
magazines . I encourage anyone treated unfairly to relate
their story , if  it results in lost business maybe they
will get the message. If 10% of those covered by a company
cancelled and took their business elsewhere and gave the
reason why , it would get their attention. Its sad to lose a
dream .
Pat 

SM Shenanigans






-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owne rs] Amel owner saying
goodbye








 













Good morning Danny,





I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de
Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it
is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right
to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market
value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case
of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the
agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more
than the market value).


That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to
compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that
1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value,
2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher
agreed value) 3) that my expens es were higher than the
average, etc...


So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all
the details.


We have been working since November on this.





So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an
“agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you
want I can show the specific section where what I just
explained is written. That will be in french in my case.





Sincerely, Alexandre





--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye


To: amely achtowners@...


Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM








 
































I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now


have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope
that


would help in the case of a write off.DannySM


299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19


"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...


[amelyachtowners]"


<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





  Dear Rafael,








I think you need to tell


the Group “your” story about the insu rance.





We have the same insurance


Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think


every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they


used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.





It is not “my” place to


tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I
will


write mine with all the details when it will be settled.






I am definitely sorry that


your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and
did


not had the joy of sailing her.





Sincerely, Alexandre








--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie


<no_reply@...>
wrote:





Subject: [Am el Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying


goodbye


To:


amelyachtowners@...


Date:


Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM








 





























Dear


friends AMEL ownersProbably this


will be


the last email that I send and I will withdraw from


the group. The reason is that Hurricane


Irma


destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be


impossible for me to


recover it.The


insurance will only pay a fraction of


what


it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and


other reasons.This situation not only


destroyed my< br>

ship but my dreams. My dreams


of living on board with my


wife, my dreams


of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my





dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other


seas


and finally returning to the beautiful


South of


Chile.


In this


group I gained friends


and knowledge and


for that, I thank each and every one of





you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the
beginning


helped me with their advice.





If


you sail to Chile you will have a


friend


here.Greetings to





all


Fair


windsRafaelSM2k


246











 
< /div>

 


 

 


 

 


 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver

Mark Erdos
 

LOL

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Guadeloupe

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 8:39 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver

 

 

Hanspeter, I have owned my Amel and been a member of this group for 11 years and never realized that this group was strictly a "technical exchange platform" thanks for enlightening me and the rest of the group  . OOPS , I guess technically , this was was a technical post. Please disregard , Sorry !

Pat

SM#123

-----Original Message-----
From: 'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Feb 20, 2018 11:45 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver

 

Dear Mr.  Baileys and Danny

I don't like that you use this forum as an add and marketing platform. Insurance are different by countries. 

Mr. Baileys; you mentioned that we need an avocate at claim? My question ? who is paying the avocate ?

Looking forward that this platform remains as a technical exchange platform 

PS: there are lots of other social platforms to share individuels needs.

kr

Hanspeter

Tamango 2

SM16; Las Palmas



Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Am 19.02.2018 um 20:49 schrieb Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi All,

I received a personal email asking the name of the insurance company that disappointed us. It was Haven Knox Johnson, a Lloyds of London Company. The broker was The Marina Shop of Opua NZ and the Assessor was Steve Lott of New Zealand.

We have a new Broker, Baileys Insurance brokers of Auckland NZ, and a new insurer recommended by them. QBE Marine insurers. Steve Bailey the principal of the company is a sailor himself. As always until you have a claim you don't know the quality of the insurer and we have yet to have a claim under this cover.(and hope we never will) However we have confidence in our broker.

Regards

Danny 

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 17 February 2018 at 07:24 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,

Further to my below, no one said no so I copy here an email from my new broker sent after he read some of the posts.

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Hi all,

I’ve been reading some of the comments posted by many of you about pleasure craft insurance policies.

I feel very sorry for you, and agreed it is not a good situation at all – but it shouldn’t be that way, and sounds like you’ve not been getting the right advice or support here.  We always use “agreed value” policies and they have worked for us and our clients as they should, many, many times.  One just less than a week ago in fact.

What you need is an advocate at claim time to ensure the claims process goes as it should – in addition t o ensuring your policy is set up correctly.  This is where an experienced Marine Insurance Broker comes in – well, a good one anyway!

There are also certain Insurance Companies to avoid out there.  Their policies aren’t worth the paper they are written on.

Sincere regards,

Neil Bailey

Director

Bailey Insurance Brokers

Auckland

New Zealand

On 16 February 2018 at 14:27 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 60;

 

Hi all,

As I said before I was burned badly by an insurance company. I changed brokers and have a "agreed value" policy with my new broker.

I forwarded him some of the correspondence because, firstly I wanted him to know what was going on and secondly to see what he said regarding my "agreed Value" policy. He has sent me a response which is helpful. He does have a good name. Is it OK for me to share his reply with the group. I'm not trying to promote him, just to add something that may be helpful.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Mangonui 
New Zealand

 

On 16 February 2018 at 06:42 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Alexandre, Trust me, I for one will reread my policy with a more critical eye. Its disgusting how an insurance company would look for any excuse , even an invalid one to escape their responsibly .. I will guarantee that the vast majority of boaters are not aware of these practices, and believe that they have an umbrella of protection , that in reality does not exist. I urge you guys to find a way to tell your story to a wider audience. 

Pat 

SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 9:11 a m
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

 

Hello Pat,

I totally agree with you Danny.

This is why my lawyer said it was a rip off to start with.
You are paying in good faith a higher premium thinking you are covered, but you are not.

I URGE everybody to read their insurance policies.
Most of you probably never even receive it (I had to ask for mine).

I think as a boating community, if we group ourselves we have a way to make things better.

Example on my insurance policy it says in case of a name storm approaching you have to:
remove anything that offers wind resistance which is: bimini, sails, lazy bags, blade of wind turbine, dinghy, etc. these items must be removed and store inside the boat. As Rafael tragically find out, this also include barbecues. That is why they say “anything” even if not listed....
Then it says the boom must be attached to the deck.
Then you have to close all unnecessary sea cock.
Valuable objects such as electronics must be disassembled and store on land...
Then you have to “triple” the number of normal fenders, dock lines, etc.
IF YOU FAIL TO DO ANY OF THESE, the policy is canceled.

I really implore Rafael to tell his story…

Last week I met a french guy, so we chat, he used to be hired by insurance adjuster to find “anything” on a boat. He said, if there was a fire, the insurance adjuster would hire him to find any electrical welding (if I u nderstood properly), as soon as they find 1, even if it is at the top of the mast, the policy is void and they don’t reimburse.
He said he was disgusted and like many sailor I met now simply has liability.

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/15/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:15 AM


 









The
insurance company based the premiums on the Agreed value ,
and then only will pay out based on what they determine the
market value is, because they don't want you to be
enriched ! Did they not e nrich themselves by charging
excessive premiums for coverage they probably never intended
to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to the
entire boating community through the internet and sailing
magazines . I encourage anyone treated unfairly to relate
their story , if  it results in lost business maybe they
will get the message. If 10% of those covered by a company
cancelled and took their business elsewhere and gave the
reason why , it would get their attention. Its sad to lose a
dream .
Pat 

SM Shenanigans






-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owne rs] Amel owner saying
goodbye








 













Good morning Danny,





I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de
Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it
is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right
to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market
value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case
of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the
agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more
than the market value).


That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to
compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that
1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value,
2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher
agreed value) 3) that my expens es were higher than the
average, etc...


So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all
the details.


We have been working since November on this.





So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an
“agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you
want I can show the specific section where what I just
explained is written. That will be in french in my case.





Sincerely, Alexandre





--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye


To: amely achtowners@...


Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM








 
































I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now


have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope
that


would help in the case of a write off.DannySM


299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19


"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...


[amelyachtowners]"


<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





  Dear Rafael,








I think you need to tell


the Group “your” story about the insu rance.





We have the same insurance


Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think


every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they


used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.





It is not “my” place to


tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I
will


write mine with all the details when it will be settled.






I am definitely sorry that


your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and
did


not had the joy of sailing her.





Sincerely, Alexandre








--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie


<no_reply@...>
wrote:





Subject: [Am el Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying


goodbye


To:


amelyachtowners@...


Date:


Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM








 





























Dear


friends AMEL ownersProbably this


will be


the last email that I send and I will withdraw from


the group. The reason is that Hurricane


Irma


destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be


impossible for me to


recover it.The


insurance will only pay a fraction of


what


it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and


other reasons.This situation not only


destroyed my< br>

ship but my dreams. My dreams


of living on board with my


wife, my dreams


of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my





dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other


seas


and finally returning to the beautiful


South of


Chile.


In this


group I gained friends


and knowledge and


for that, I thank each and every one of





you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the
beginning


helped me with their advice.





If


you sail to Chile you will have a


friend


here.Greetings to





all


Fair


windsRafaelSM2k


246










 
< /div>

 


 

 


 

 


 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Well said Pat,

And Thanks Danny for taking the time to share your experience with us regarding the insurance.

Sincerely Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 2/21/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:39 AM


 









Hanspeter, I have owned my Amel and been a
member of this group for 11 years and never realized that
this group was strictly a "technical exchange
platform" thanks for enlightening me and the rest of
the group  . OOPS , I guess technically , this was was a
technical post. Please disregard , Sorry !
Pat

SM#123






-----Original
Message-----

From: 'hanspeter.baettig@...'
hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners
<amelyachtowners@...>

Sent: Tue, Feb 20, 2018 11:45 pm

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it
deliver








 















Dear Mr.  Baileys and Danny

I
don't like that you use this forum as an add and
marketing platform. Insurance are different by
countries. 

Mr.
Baileys; you mentioned that we need an avocate at claim? My
question ? who is paying the avocate ?

Looking
forward that this platform remains as a technical exchange
platform 

PS: there
are lots of other social platforms to share individuels
needs.

kr

Hanspeter

Tamango
2

SM16; Las
Palmas





Von meinem iPhone gesendet



Am 19.02.2018 um 20:49 schrieb Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:




















 











Hi All,

I received a personal email asking the name of the
insurance company that disappointed us. It was Haven Knox
Johnson, a Lloyds of London Company. The broker was The
Marina Shop of Opua NZ and the Assessor was Steve Lott of
New Zealand.

We have a new Broker, Baileys Insurance brokers of
Auckland NZ, and a new insurer recommended by them. QBE
Marine insurers. Steve Bailey the principal of the company
is a sailor himself. As always until you have a claim you
don't know the quality of the insurer and we have yet to
have a claim under this cover.(and hope we never will)
However we have confidence in our broker.



Regards

Danny 

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 17 February 2018 at 07:24
"Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:



 


 



Hi all,

Further to my below, no one said no so I copy here an
email from my new broker sent after he read some of the
posts.

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Hi
all,

I’ve
been reading some of the comments posted by many of you
about pleasure craft insurance policies.

I
feel very sorry for you, and agreed it is not a good
situation at all – but it shouldn’t be that way, and
sounds like you’ve not been getting the right advice or
support here.  We always use “agreed value” policies
and they have worked for us and our clients as they should,
many, many times.  One just less than a week ago in
fact.

What
you need is an advocate at claim time to ensure the claims
process goes as it should – in addition t
o ensuring your policy is set up correctly.  This is where
an experienced Marine Insurance Broker comes in – well, a
good one anyway!

There
are also certain Insurance Companies to avoid out there. 
Their policies aren’t worth the paper they are written
on.

Sincere
regards,

Neil
Bailey

Director

Bailey
Insurance Brokers

Auckland

New
Zealand

On 16 February 2018 at 14:27
"Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:




60;

 



Hi all,

As I said before I was burned badly by an insurance
company. I changed brokers and have a "agreed
value" policy with my new broker.

I forwarded him some of the correspondence because,
firstly I wanted him to know what was going on and secondly
to see what he said regarding my "agreed Value"
policy. He has sent me a response which is helpful. He does
have a good name. Is it OK for me to share his reply with
the group. I'm not trying to promote him, just to add
something that may be helpful.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Mangonui 

New Zealand





On 16 February 2018 at 06:42
"Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:



 

Alexandre,
Trust me, I for one will reread my policy with a more
critical eye. Its disgusting how an insurance company would
look for any excuse , even an invalid one to escape their
responsibly .. I will guarantee that the vast majority of
boaters are not aware of these practices, and believe that
they have an umbrella of protection , that in reality does
not exist. I urge you guys to find a way to tell your story
to a wider audience. 

Pat 

SM Shenanigans






-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>

Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 9:11 a
m

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye





 



Hello Pat,



I totally agree with you Danny.



This is why my lawyer said it was a rip off to start with.


You are paying in good faith a higher premium thinking you
are covered, but you are not.



I URGE everybody to read their insurance policies.

Most of you probably never even receive it (I had to ask
for mine).



I think as a boating community, if we group ourselves we
have a way to make things better.



Example on my insurance policy it says
in case of a name storm approaching you have to:

remove anything that offers wind resistance which is:
bimini, sails, lazy bags, blade of wind turbine, dinghy,
etc. these items must be removed and store inside the boat.
As Rafael tragically find out, this also include barbecues.
That is why they say “anything” even if not listed....


Then it says the boom must be attached to the deck.

Then you have to close all unnecessary sea cock.

Valuable objects such as electronics must be disassembled
and store on land...

Then you have to “triple” the number of normal fenders,
dock lines, etc.

IF YOU FAIL TO DO ANY OF THESE, the policy is canceled.



I really implore Rafael to tell his story…



Last week I met a french guy, so we chat, he used to be
hired by insurance adjuster to find “anything” on a
boat. He said, if there was a fire, the insurance adjuster
would hire him to find any electrical welding (if I u
nderstood properly), as soon as they find 1, even if it is
at the top of the mast, the policy is void and they don’t
reimburse.

He said he was disgusted and like many sailor I met now
simply has liability.



Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 2/15/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:



Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye

To: amelyachtowners@...

Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:15 AM





 



















The

insurance company based the premiums on the Agreed value
,

and then only will pay out based on what they determine
the

market value is, because they don't want you to be

enriched ! Did they not e
nrich themselves by charging

excessive premiums for coverage they probably never
intended

to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to
the

entire boating community through the internet and
sailing

magazines . I encourage anyone treated unfairly to
relate

their story , if  it results in lost business maybe
they

will get the message. If 10% of those covered by a
company

cancelled and took their business elsewhere and gave the

reason why , it would get their attention. Its sad to lose
a

dream .

Pat 



SM Shenanigans













-----Original

Message-----



From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...

[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>



To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtown



Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am



Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owne
rs] Amel owner saying

goodbye

















 



























Good morning Danny,











I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through
de

Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as,
it

is written on the contrat that the insurance has the
right

to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the
market

value because the owner would “enrich” himself if
case

of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the

agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting
more

than the market value).





That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me
to

compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove
that

1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed
value,

2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher

agreed value) 3) that my expens
es were higher than the

average, etc...





So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with
all

the details.





We have been working since November on this.











So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an

“agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If
you

want I can show the specific section where what I just

explained is written. That will be in french in my case.











Sincerely, Alexandre











--------------------------------------------





On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...

[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

wrote:











Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying

goodbye





To: amely
achtowners@...





Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM

















 

































































I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now





have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope

that





would help in the case of a write off.DannySM





299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19





"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...





[amelyachtowners]"





<amelyachtowners@...>

wrote:











  Dear Rafael,

















I think you need to tell





the Group “your” story about the insu
rance.











We have the same insurance





Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think





every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they





used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.











It is not “my” place to





tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I

will





write mine with all the details when it will be settled.













I am definitely sorry that





your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and

did





not had the joy of sailing her.











Sincerely, Alexandre

















--------------------------------------------





On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie





<no_reply@...>

wrote:











Subject: [Am
el Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying





goodbye





To:





amelyachtowners@...





Date:





Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM

















 



























































Dear





friends AMEL ownersProbably this





will be





the last email that I send and I will withdraw from





the group. The reason is that Hurricane





Irma





destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be





impossible for me to





recover it.The





insurance will only pay a fraction of





what





it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and





other reasons.This situation not only





destroyed my<
br>



ship but my dreams. My dreams





of living on board with my





wife, my dreams





of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my











dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other





seas





and finally returning to the beautiful





South of





Chile.





In this





group I gained friends





and knowledge and





for that, I thank each and every one of











you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the

beginning





helped me with their advice.











If





you sail to Chile you will have a





friend





here.Greetings to











all





Fair





windsRafaelSM2k





246

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Boat Insurance

Porter McRoberts
 

Thanks Bill. Appreciated. 

Had a guy come out to the boat. We took the old filter back to his shop. Cut it open. Lots of metal inside. I am going to get a new transmission unless you argue against it. It solves both problems. Mystery air ( transmission guy here was also scratching his head as to a solution, and no he doesn’t sell tranny’s,) and metal loss on gears. 
I spoke to the ZF dealer in Florida. He said on all ZFs older than 4-5 years they would routinely machine off 10/1000” to make the cup fit into the cylinder. This was a common problem. 

Problem is I am dead in the water without a good tranny. 

Any guidance is always appreciated. 

Thanks
Porter. 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Feb 20, 2018, at 6:55 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

Insurance is something that changes like the wind.

You might try Velos Insurance UK. 
Insurance"at"velosgroup.co.uk

They'll be good for you, except not in US waters. They will allow US territorial waters of the Caribbean, and cover you most everywhere except the US.

Ask for Chris Bassett and tell him that Bill Rouse Ex-BeBe referred you.

I have sent you some more information directly.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver

Patrick McAneny
 

Hanspeter, I have owned my Amel and been a member of this group for 11 years and never realized that this group was strictly a "technical exchange platform" thanks for enlightening me and the rest of the group  . OOPS , I guess technically , this was was a technical post. Please disregard , Sorry !
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: 'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Feb 20, 2018 11:45 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver

 
Dear Mr.  Baileys and Danny
I don't like that you use this forum as an add and marketing platform. Insurance are different by countries. 
Mr. Baileys; you mentioned that we need an avocate at claim? My question ? who is paying the avocate ?
Looking forward that this platform remains as a technical exchange platform 
PS: there are lots of other social platforms to share individuels needs.
kr
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16; Las Palmas


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 19.02.2018 um 20:49 schrieb Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 
Hi All,
I received a personal email asking the name of the insurance company that disappointed us. It was Haven Knox Johnson, a Lloyds of London Company. The broker was The Marina Shop of Opua NZ and the Assessor was Steve Lott of New Zealand.
We have a new Broker, Baileys Insurance brokers of Auckland NZ, and a new insurer recommended by them. QBE Marine insurers. Steve Bailey the principal of the company is a sailor himself. As always until you have a claim you don't know the quality of the insurer and we have yet to have a claim under this cover.(and hope we never will) However we have confidence in our broker.
Regards
Danny 
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 17 February 2018 at 07:24 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
 
Hi all,
Further to my below, no one said no so I copy here an email from my new broker sent after he read some of the posts.
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
Hi all,
I’ve been reading some of the comments posted by many of you about pleasure craft insurance policies.
I feel very sorry for you, and agreed it is not a good situation at all – but it shouldn’t be that way, and sounds like you’ve not been getting the right advice or support here.  We always use “agreed value” policies and they have worked for us and our clients as they should, many, many times.  One just less than a week ago in fact.
What you need is an advocate at claim time to ensure the claims process goes as it should – in addition t o ensuring your policy is set up correctly.  This is where an experienced Marine Insurance Broker comes in – well, a good one anyway!
There are also certain Insurance Companies to avoid out there.  Their policies aren’t worth the paper they are written on.
Sincere regards,
Neil Bailey
Director
Bailey Insurance Brokers
Auckland
New Zealand
On 16 February 2018 at 14:27 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 60;
 
Hi all,
As I said before I was burned badly by an insurance company. I changed brokers and have a "agreed value" policy with my new broker.
I forwarded him some of the correspondence because, firstly I wanted him to know what was going on and secondly to see what he said regarding my "agreed Value" policy. He has sent me a response which is helpful. He does have a good name. Is it OK for me to share his reply with the group. I'm not trying to promote him, just to add something that may be helpful.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
Mangonui 
New Zealand

On 16 February 2018 at 06:42 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Alexandre, Trust me, I for one will reread my policy with a more critical eye. Its disgusting how an insurance company would look for any excuse , even an invalid one to escape their responsibly .. I will guarantee that the vast majority of boaters are not aware of these practices, and believe that they have an umbrella of protection , that in reality does not exist. I urge you guys to find a way to tell your story to a wider audience. 
Pat 
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 9:11 a m
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

 
Hello Pat,

I totally agree with you Danny.

This is why my lawyer said it was a rip off to start with.
You are paying in good faith a higher premium thinking you are covered, but you are not.

I URGE everybody to read their insurance policies.
Most of you probably never even receive it (I had to ask for mine).

I think as a boating community, if we group ourselves we have a way to make things better.

Example on my insurance policy it says in case of a name storm approaching you have to:
remove anything that offers wind resistance which is: bimini, sails, lazy bags, blade of wind turbine, dinghy, etc. these items must be removed and store inside the boat. As Rafael tragically find out, this also include barbecues. That is why they say “anything” even if not listed...
Then it says the boom must be attached to the deck.
Then you have to close all unnecessary sea cock.
Valuable objects such as electronics must be disassembled and store on land...
Then you have to “triple” the number of normal fenders, dock lines, etc.
IF YOU FAIL TO DO ANY OF THESE, the policy is canceled.

I really implore Rafael to tell his story…

Last week I met a french guy, so we chat, he used to be hired by insurance adjuster to find “anything” on a boat. He said, if there was a fire, the insurance adjuster would hire him to find any electrical welding (if I u nderstood properly), as soon as they find 1, even if it is at the top of the mast, the policy is void and they don’t reimburse.
He said he was disgusted and like many sailor I met now simply has liability.

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/15/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:15 AM


 









The
insurance company based the premiums on the Agreed value ,
and then only will pay out based on what they determine the
market value is, because they don't want you to be
enriched ! Did they not e nrich themselves by charging
excessive premiums for coverage they probably never intended
to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to the
entire boating community through the internet and sailing
magazines . I encourage anyone treated unfairly to relate
their story , if  it results in lost business maybe they
will get the message. If 10% of those covered by a company
cancelled and took their business elsewhere and gave the
reason why , it would get their attention. Its sad to lose a
dream .
Pat 

SM Shenanigans






-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owne rs] Amel owner saying
goodbye








 













Good morning Danny,





I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de
Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it
is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right
to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market
value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case
of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the
agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more
than the market value).


That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to
compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that
1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value,
2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher
agreed value) 3) that my expens es were higher than the
average, etc...


So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all
the details.


We have been working since November on this.





So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an
“agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you
want I can show the specific section where what I just
explained is written. That will be in french in my case.





Sincerely, Alexandre





--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye


To: amely achtowners@...


Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM








 
































I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now


have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope
that


would help in the case of a write off.DannySM


299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19


"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...


[amelyachtowners]"


<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





  Dear Rafael,








I think you need to tell


the Group “your” story about the insu rance.





We have the same insurance


Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think


every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they


used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.





It is not “my” place to


tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I
will


write mine with all the details when it will be settled.






I am definitely sorry that


your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and
did


not had the joy of sailing her.





Sincerely, Alexandre








--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie


<no_reply@...>
wrote:





Subject: [Am el Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying


goodbye


To:


amelyachtowners@...


Date:


Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM








 





























Dear


friends AMEL ownersProbably this


will be


the last email that I send and I will withdraw from


the group. The reason is that Hurricane


Irma


destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be


impossible for me to


recover it.The


insurance will only pay a fraction of


what


it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and


other reasons.This situation not only


destroyed my< br>

ship but my dreams. My dreams


of living on board with my


wife, my dreams


of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my





dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other


seas


and finally returning to the beautiful


South of


Chile.


In this


group I gained friends


and knowledge and


for that, I thank each and every one of





you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the
beginning


helped me with their advice.





If


you sail to Chile you will have a


friend


here.Greetings to





all


Fair


windsRafaelSM2k


246











 
< /div>
 

 
 

 
 

 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver

Porter McRoberts
 

I do too. Very sorry to hear this. 
Also I agree with Alexandre’s sentiments, especially on the eve of our buying new insurance. Ian sure you have much to teach us. 

Porter 
54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Feb 16, 2018, at 2:24 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,

Further to my below, no one said no so I copy here an email from my new broker sent after he read some of the posts.

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Hi all,

I’ve been reading some of the comments posted by many of you about pleasure craft insurance policies.

I feel very sorry for you, and agreed it is not a good situation at all – but it shouldn’t be that way, and sounds like you’ve not been getting the right advice or support here.  We always use “agreed value” policies and they have worked for us and our clients as they should, many, many times.  One just less than a week ago in fact.

What you need is an advocate at claim time to ensure the claims process goes as it should – in addition to ensuring your policy is set up correctly.  This is where an experienced Marine Insurance Broker comes in – well, a good one anyway!

There are also certain Insurance Companies to avoid out there.  Their policies aren’t worth the paper they are written on.

Sincere regards,

Neil Bailey

Director

Bailey Insurance Brokers

Auckland

New Zealand

On 16 February 2018 at 14:27 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,

As I said before I was burned badly by an insurance company. I changed brokers and have a "agreed value" policy with my new broker.

I forwarded him some of the correspondence because, firstly I wanted him to know what was going on and secondly to see what he said regarding my "agreed Value" policy. He has sent me a response which is helpful. He does have a good name. Is it OK for me to share his reply with the group. I'm not trying to promote him, just to add something that may be helpful.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Mangonui 
New Zealand


On 16 February 2018 at 06:42 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Alexandre, Trust me, I for one will reread my policy with a more critical eye. Its disgusting how an insurance company would look for any excuse , even an invalid one to escape their responsibly . I will guarantee that the vast majority of boaters are not aware of these practices, and believe that they have an umbrella of protection , that in reality does not exist. I urge you guys to find a way to tell your story to a wider audience. 

Pat 
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 9:11 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

 
Hello Pat,

I totally agree with you Danny.

This is why my lawyer said it was a rip off to start with.
You are paying in good faith a higher premium thinking you are covered, but you are not.

I URGE everybody to read their insurance policies.
Most of you probably never even receive it (I had to ask for mine).

I think as a boating community, if we group ourselves we have a way to make things better.

Example on my insurance policy it says in case of a name storm approaching you have to:
remove anything that offers wind resistance which is: bimini, sails, lazy bags, blade of wind turbine, dinghy, etc. these items must be removed and store inside the boat. As Rafael tragically find out, this also include barbecues. That is why they say “anything” even if not listed...
Then it says the boom must be attached to the deck.
Then you have to close all unnecessary sea cock.
Valuable objects such as electronics must be disassembled and store on land...
Then you have to “triple” the number of normal fenders, dock lines, etc.
IF YOU FAIL TO DO ANY OF THESE, the policy is canceled.

I really implore Rafael to tell his story…

Last week I met a french guy, so we chat, he used to be hired by insurance adjuster to find “anything” on a boat. He said, if there was a fire, the insurance adjuster would hire him to find any electrical welding (if I understood properly), as soon as they find 1, even if it is at the top of the mast, the policy is void and they don’t reimburse.
He said he was disgusted and like many sailor I met now simply has liability.

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/15/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:15 AM


 









The
insurance company based the premiums on the Agreed value ,
and then only will pay out based on what they determine the
market value is, because they don't want you to be
enriched ! Did they not enrich themselves by charging
excessive premiums for coverage they probably never intended
to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to the
entire boating community through the internet and sailing
magazines . I encourage anyone treated unfairly to relate
their story , if  it results in lost business maybe they
will get the message. If 10% of those covered by a company
cancelled and took their business elsewhere and gave the
reason why , it would get their attention. Its sad to lose a
dream .
Pat 

SM Shenanigans






-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye








 













Good morning Danny,





I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de
Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it
is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right
to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market
value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case
of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the
agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more
than the market value).


That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to
compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that
1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value,
2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher
agreed value) 3) that my expenses were higher than the
average, etc...


So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all
the details.


We have been working since November on this.





So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an
“agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you
want I can show the specific section where what I just
explained is written. That will be in french in my case.





Sincerely, Alexandre





--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye


To: amelyachtowners@...


Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM








 
































I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now


have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope
that


would help in the case of a write off.DannySM


299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19


"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...


[amelyachtowners]"


<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





  Dear Rafael,








I think you need to tell


the Group “your” story about the insurance.





We have the same insurance


Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think


every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they


used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.





It is not “my” place to


tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I
will


write mine with all the details when it will be settled.






I am definitely sorry that


your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and
did


not had the joy of sailing her.





Sincerely, Alexandre








--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie


<no_reply@...>
wrote:





Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying


goodbye


To:


amelyachtowners@...


Date:


Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM








 





























Dear


friends AMEL ownersProbably this


will be


the last email that I send and I will withdraw from


the group. The reason is that Hurricane


Irma


destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be


impossible for me to


recover it.The


insurance will only pay a fraction of


what


it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and


other reasons.This situation not only


destroyed my


ship but my dreams. My dreams


of living on board with my


wife, my dreams


of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my





dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other


seas


and finally returning to the beautiful


South of


Chile.


In this


group I gained friends


and knowledge and


for that, I thank each and every one of





you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the
beginning


helped me with their advice.





If


you sail to Chile you will have a


friend


here.Greetings to





all


Fair


windsRafaelSM2k


246











 

 


 

 


 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor Locker

Mark Erdos
 

When Amel repaired ours recently they used white gel-coat, not paint to finished the inside of the locker.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Guadeloupe

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of pepinoamel
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 4:22 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor Locker

 

 

I take all the chain out every year to clean the anchor locker and as has been noted on previous posts, the plywood ceiling is always mouldy.  Does anybody know why the anchor locker is painted halfway up with white paint and the rest of the fiberglass is left bare and the plywood ceiling is left unpainted?  Has anybody painted the sides and especially the plywood ceiling?  If so, what paint was used?  Does anybody know what the existing white paint is?

 

Gerhard Hoffmann

Pepino SM381

Greece

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Dear Hanspeter,
I am sorry you see my contributions as 'marketing'. It is not. It is no more or less than sharing information and experience to the benefit of everyone. In this case it is regarding insurance experience, A very troubled area. No different to sharing where to source a hard to find part. It is to the benefit of all. As with all sharing it is up to individual members to make their own judgement.
Kind regards
Danny

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 21 Feb 2018 1:46 p.m., "'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear Mr.  Baileys and Danny
I don't like that you use this forum as an add and marketing platform. Insurance are different by countries. 
Mr. Baileys; you mentioned that we need an avocate at claim? My question ? who is paying the avocate ?
Looking forward that this platform remains as a technical exchange platform 
PS: there are lots of other social platforms to share individuels needs.
kr
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16; Las Palmas


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 19.02.2018 um 20:49 schrieb Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi All,

I received a personal email asking the name of the insurance company that disappointed us. It was Haven Knox Johnson, a Lloyds of London Company. The broker was The Marina Shop of Opua NZ and the Assessor was Steve Lott of New Zealand.

We have a new Broker, Baileys Insurance brokers of Auckland NZ, and a new insurer recommended by them. QBE Marine insurers. Steve Bailey the principal of the company is a sailor himself. As always until you have a claim you don't know the quality of the insurer and we have yet to have a claim under this cover.(and hope we never will) However we have confidence in our broker.

Regards

Danny 

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 17 February 2018 at 07:24 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,

Further to my below, no one said no so I copy here an email from my new broker sent after he read some of the posts.

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Hi all,

I’ve been reading some of the comments posted by many of you about pleasure craft insurance policies.

I feel very sorry for you, and agreed it is not a good situation at all – but it shouldn’t be that way, and sounds like you’ve not been getting the right advice or support here.  We always use “agreed value” policies and they have worked for us and our clients as they should, many, many times.  One just less than a week ago in fact.

What you need is an advocate at claim time to ensure the claims process goes as it should – in addition t o ensuring your policy is set up correctly.  This is where an experienced Marine Insurance Broker comes in – well, a good one anyway!

There are also certain Insurance Companies to avoid out there.  Their policies aren’t worth the paper they are written on.

Sincere regards,

Neil Bailey

Director

Bailey Insurance Brokers

Auckland

New Zealand

On 16 February 2018 at 14:27 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 60;

 

Hi all,

As I said before I was burned badly by an insurance company. I changed brokers and have a "agreed value" policy with my new broker.

I forwarded him some of the correspondence because, firstly I wanted him to know what was going on and secondly to see what he said regarding my "agreed Value" policy. He has sent me a response which is helpful. He does have a good name. Is it OK for me to share his reply with the group. I'm not trying to promote him, just to add something that may be helpful.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Mangonui 
New Zealand


On 16 February 2018 at 06:42 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Alexandre, Trust me, I for one will reread my policy with a more critical eye. Its disgusting how an insurance company would look for any excuse , even an invalid one to escape their responsibly .. I will guarantee that the vast majority of boaters are not aware of these practices, and believe that they have an umbrella of protection , that in reality does not exist. I urge you guys to find a way to tell your story to a wider audience. 

Pat 
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 9:11 a m
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

 
Hello Pat,

I totally agree with you Danny.

This is why my lawyer said it was a rip off to start with.
You are paying in good faith a higher premium thinking you are covered, but you are not.

I URGE everybody to read their insurance policies.
Most of you probably never even receive it (I had to ask for mine).

I think as a boating community, if we group ourselves we have a way to make things better.

Example on my insurance policy it says in case of a name storm approaching you have to:
remove anything that offers wind resistance which is: bimini, sails, lazy bags, blade of wind turbine, dinghy, etc. these items must be removed and store inside the boat. As Rafael tragically find out, this also include barbecues. That is why they say “anything” even if not listed...
Then it says the boom must be attached to the deck.
Then you have to close all unnecessary sea cock.
Valuable objects such as electronics must be disassembled and store on land...
Then you have to “triple” the number of normal fenders, dock lines, etc.
IF YOU FAIL TO DO ANY OF THESE, the policy is canceled.

I really implore Rafael to tell his story…

Last week I met a french guy, so we chat, he used to be hired by insurance adjuster to find “anything” on a boat. He said, if there was a fire, the insurance adjuster would hire him to find any electrical welding (if I u nderstood properly), as soon as they find 1, even if it is at the top of the mast, the policy is void and they don’t reimburse.
He said he was disgusted and like many sailor I met now simply has liability.

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/15/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:15 AM


 









The
insurance company based the premiums on the Agreed value ,
and then only will pay out based on what they determine the
market value is, because they don't want you to be
enriched ! Did they not e nrich themselves by charging
excessive premiums for coverage they probably never intended
to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to the
entire boating community through the internet and sailing
magazines . I encourage anyone treated unfairly to relate
their story , if  it results in lost business maybe they
will get the message. If 10% of those covered by a company
cancelled and took their business elsewhere and gave the
reason why , it would get their attention. Its sad to lose a
dream .
Pat 

SM Shenanigans






-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtown

Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owne rs] Amel owner saying
goodbye








 













Good morning Danny,





I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de
Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it
is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right
to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market
value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case
of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the
agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more
than the market value).


That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to
compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that
1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value,
2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher
agreed value) 3) that my expens es were higher than the
average, etc...


So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all
the details.


We have been working since November on this.





So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an
“agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you
want I can show the specific section where what I just
explained is written. That will be in french in my case.





Sincerely, Alexandre





--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye


To: amely achtowners@...


Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM








 
































I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now


have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope
that


would help in the case of a write off.DannySM


299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19


"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...


[amelyachtowners]"


<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





  Dear Rafael,








I think you need to tell


the Group “your” story about the insu rance.





We have the same insurance


Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think


every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they


used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.





It is not “my” place to


tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I
will


write mine with all the details when it will be settled.






I am definitely sorry that


your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and
did


not had the joy of sailing her.





Sincerely, Alexandre








--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie


<no_reply@...>
wrote:





Subject: [Am el Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying


goodbye


To:


amelyachtowners@...


Date:


Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM








 





























Dear


friends AMEL ownersProbably this


will be


the last email that I send and I will withdraw from


the group. The reason is that Hurricane


Irma


destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be


impossible for me to


recover it.The


insurance will only pay a fraction of


what


it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and


other reasons.This situation not only


destroyed my< br>

ship but my dreams. My dreams


of living on board with my


wife, my dreams


of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my





dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other


seas


and finally returning to the beautiful


South of


Chile.


In this


group I gained friends


and knowledge and


for that, I thank each and every one of





you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the
beginning


helped me with their advice.





If


you sail to Chile you will have a


friend


here.Greetings to





all


Fair


windsRafaelSM2k


246











 
< /div>

 


 

 


 

 


 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Raymarine Ray240 VHF

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Duane;
 
We are also experiencing intermittent issues with the VHF. Our issue is reception, we seem to be transmitting fine. So when we have issue we transmit on the main VHF with the mast mounted antenna and receive on the handheld.
 
We have done numerous power and transmission tests and get intermittent results. We are going to replace the antenna at this year's haul out.
 
Does any one have a good recommendation for an antenna for a 54?
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 2:59 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Raymarine Ray240 VHF

 

Our VHF has a history of not working for completely inexplicable reasons.  It will receive but will not send, even at very close ranges.  It will work for a time and then not work for a time.  Thank goodness I bought a handheld for a backup.


It doesn't seem like it could be the antenna.  We listened to the USCG Charleston SC when we were at the FL/GA border, almost two hundred miles away (they must have a very tall antenna)


I'm planning on replacing it (after all, it's 12 years old), but thought I would see if there was a simple repair answer.


If you replaced it, what did you pick? 


Thanks,

Duane

Wanderer, SM#477

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Pole height at shroud?

greatketch@...
 


Steve,

We are away from our boat at the moment, so I can not measure, but it is obvious that the two sides should be the same.  

I would say having them NOT match means they were done by eye instead of by matching the original measurement.  That's kind of sloppy work, unless--they were not tightened enough and one or the other slipped up or down the shrouds?

Our inboard jockey poles do angle downward a bit.  Not quite sure I understand the reason, but they do match the angle on the mast fittings pretty closely.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Freeport, Bahamas

---In amelyachtowners@..., <steve_morrison@...> wrote :






On Feb 19, 2018, at 6:05 PM, Stephen Morrison steve_morrison@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello all. I recently had Nance and Underwood install new standing rigging here in Florida and noticed that the height of the pole support on the shrouds varied noticeably. I was also on another Amel this morning that also had a new rig from Nance and Underwood and his brackets varied more than mine one side to the other, and were both several inches lower than either of mine.

I had assumed that the inner pole wants to be set perpendicular to the mast and that when set, the outer pole wants to maintain that same line perpendicular to the water(when the boat is level), however I am noticing that the receiving fitting on the mast is welded with an obvious downward cant suggesting perhaps that maybe the pole should dip outboard (alternatively, it could be welded that way so that water doesn’t collect in the welded cup).

My question is whether anyone knows a proper height above deck for the support arm mounted on the shrouds? I have photos of mine as measured from the outboard edge of the decking to the underside of the mounting bracket with a port side height of 77” and a starboard height of 79.25”..

All the best,
Steve Morrison
SM380 TouRai
Ft Lauderdale

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Boat Insurance

greatketch@...
 

Porter,

We have been with Pantaenius America for 3 years, and did see a jump this year of about 20%.  Our premium cost per insured dollar value is almost identical to what you were quoted.  The big change this year was that they no longer covered ANY sailing in the Caribbean (south of 31N) from July 1 to Oct 31.  They would only cover a boat on the hard, strapped down in a keel pit, and that at double the premium.

We asked if there was a corner of the southwestern Caribbean where they would cover during storm season, and their answer was simple: "No."

One big change in the overall insurance market for midrange yachts like ours, is the number of companies writing policies is greatly reduced from last year.  The good news is that these should be the best managed and most carefully run companies, the bad news is that the reduced competition will not be good for rates in the future.

I can only imagine the insurance cost increase that the large charter companies are seeing for the fleets they keep in the Caribbean hurricane belt year round!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Freeport, Bahamas


---In amelyachtowners@..., <portermcroberts@...> wrote :

This is really great information Thank you!: 
Especially since Jack Martin can only come up with one quote for our boat starting April: Pantaenius America.  Its 10k  we were paying 6k with Falvey which is not writing yachts anymore.
Thats a big jump as i was told it would go down after our first year of ownership.  

Are others seeing the same situation?

Our specs: 520k and sailing Caribbean and south of the 12 by July.

Always appreciated.

Porter
  
Porter McRoberts
S/V Ibis: Amel 54-#152
St. Thomas AYH Red Hook
www.fouribis.com
portermcroberts@...




Re: Anchor Locker

greatketch@...
 

Gerhard,

This has been a popular topic recently.  It seems that this year many Super Maramus (mine included) have reached the age where the plywood in the chain locker reached the end of its useful life.  The only reason I can see for not fully encapsulating the plywood in the chain locker is just manufacturing expedience. There are very few places where Amel took shortcuts, so I guess I can forgive them this one.  Where our wood was coated, it was coated with glass and resin, not simply paint.

If the plywood is "moldy" it is almost certainly past the point where it can be saved, although others with more wooden boat experience than I might have some useful suggestions.

We replaced the horizontal plywood in our boat completely, and ground off a layer or two from the vertical bulkhead down to hard, dry wood before covering it with fiberglass and resin.  If you dig back a few months in the forum archives you'll find a lot of discussion about the various approaches to this project.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Freeport, Bahamas



---In amelyachtowners@..., <no_reply@...> wrote :

I take all the chain out every year to clean the anchor locker and as has been noted on previous posts, the plywood ceiling is always mouldy.  Does anybody know why the anchor locker is painted halfway up with white paint and the rest of the fiberglass is left bare and the plywood ceiling is left unpainted?  Has anybody painted the sides and especially the plywood ceiling?  If so, what paint was used?  Does anybody know what the existing white paint is?


Gerhard Hoffmann

Pepino SM381

Greece

 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Raymarine Ray240 VHF

Warren Traill
 

Hi Duane. We had a similar problem and in the end it was the wire connection to the speaker. So we were transmitting but didn’t realise it because we heard no reply.

The simple solution in our case was to plug in a remote speaker with a volume control.

Regards,

Warren

Manon2

Sharki #15

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 20 February 2018 6:59 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Raymarine Ray240 VHF

 

 

Our VHF has a history of not working for completely inexplicable reasons.  It will receive but will not send, even at very close ranges.  It will work for a time and then not work for a timeHi Duane. We had similar problems.  Thank goodness I bought a handheld for a backup.



It doesn't seem like it could be the antenna.  We listened to the USCG Charleston SC when we were at the FL/GA border, almost two hundred miles away (they must have a very tall antenna)

 

I'm planning on replacing it (after all, it's 12 years old), but thought I would see if there was a simple repair answer.

 

If you replaced it, what did you pick? 

 

Thanks,

Duane

Wanderer, SM#477

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver

hanspeter baettig
 

Dear Mr.  Baileys and Danny
I don't like that you use this forum as an add and marketing platform. Insurance are different by countries. 
Mr. Baileys; you mentioned that we need an avocate at claim? My question ? who is paying the avocate ?
Looking forward that this platform remains as a technical exchange platform 
PS: there are lots of other social platforms to share individuels needs.
kr
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16; Las Palmas


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 19.02.2018 um 20:49 schrieb Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi All,

I received a personal email asking the name of the insurance company that disappointed us. It was Haven Knox Johnson, a Lloyds of London Company. The broker was The Marina Shop of Opua NZ and the Assessor was Steve Lott of New Zealand.

We have a new Broker, Baileys Insurance brokers of Auckland NZ, and a new insurer recommended by them. QBE Marine insurers. Steve Bailey the principal of the company is a sailor himself. As always until you have a claim you don't know the quality of the insurer and we have yet to have a claim under this cover.(and hope we never will) However we have confidence in our broker.

Regards

Danny 

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 17 February 2018 at 07:24 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,

Further to my below, no one said no so I copy here an email from my new broker sent after he read some of the posts.

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Hi all,

I’ve been reading some of the comments posted by many of you about pleasure craft insurance policies.

I feel very sorry for you, and agreed it is not a good situation at all – but it shouldn’t be that way, and sounds like you’ve not been getting the right advice or support here.  We always use “agreed value” policies and they have worked for us and our clients as they should, many, many times.  One just less than a week ago in fact.

What you need is an advocate at claim time to ensure the claims process goes as it should – in addition t o ensuring your policy is set up correctly.  This is where an experienced Marine Insurance Broker comes in – well, a good one anyway!

There are also certain Insurance Companies to avoid out there.  Their policies aren’t worth the paper they are written on.

Sincere regards,

Neil Bailey

Director

Bailey Insurance Brokers

Auckland

New Zealand

On 16 February 2018 at 14:27 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 60;

 

Hi all,

As I said before I was burned badly by an insurance company. I changed brokers and have a "agreed value" policy with my new broker.

I forwarded him some of the correspondence because, firstly I wanted him to know what was going on and secondly to see what he said regarding my "agreed Value" policy. He has sent me a response which is helpful. He does have a good name. Is it OK for me to share his reply with the group. I'm not trying to promote him, just to add something that may be helpful.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Mangonui 
New Zealand


On 16 February 2018 at 06:42 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Alexandre, Trust me, I for one will reread my policy with a more critical eye. Its disgusting how an insurance company would look for any excuse , even an invalid one to escape their responsibly . I will guarantee that the vast majority of boaters are not aware of these practices, and believe that they have an umbrella of protection , that in reality does not exist. I urge you guys to find a way to tell your story to a wider audience. 

Pat 
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 9:11 a m
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

 
Hello Pat,

I totally agree with you Danny.

This is why my lawyer said it was a rip off to start with.
You are paying in good faith a higher premium thinking you are covered, but you are not.

I URGE everybody to read their insurance policies.
Most of you probably never even receive it (I had to ask for mine).

I think as a boating community, if we group ourselves we have a way to make things better.

Example on my insurance policy it says in case of a name storm approaching you have to:
remove anything that offers wind resistance which is: bimini, sails, lazy bags, blade of wind turbine, dinghy, etc. these items must be removed and store inside the boat. As Rafael tragically find out, this also include barbecues. That is why they say “anything” even if not listed...
Then it says the boom must be attached to the deck.
Then you have to close all unnecessary sea cock.
Valuable objects such as electronics must be disassembled and store on land...
Then you have to “triple” the number of normal fenders, dock lines, etc.
IF YOU FAIL TO DO ANY OF THESE, the policy is canceled.

I really implore Rafael to tell his story…

Last week I met a french guy, so we chat, he used to be hired by insurance adjuster to find “anything” on a boat. He said, if there was a fire, the insurance adjuster would hire him to find any electrical welding (if I u nderstood properly), as soon as they find 1, even if it is at the top of the mast, the policy is void and they don’t reimburse.
He said he was disgusted and like many sailor I met now simply has liability.

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/15/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:15 AM


 









The
insurance company based the premiums on the Agreed value ,
and then only will pay out based on what they determine the
market value is, because they don't want you to be
enriched ! Did they not e nrich themselves by charging
excessive premiums for coverage they probably never intended
to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to the
entire boating community through the internet and sailing
magazines . I encourage anyone treated unfairly to relate
their story , if  it results in lost business maybe they
will get the message. If 10% of those covered by a company
cancelled and took their business elsewhere and gave the
reason why , it would get their attention. Its sad to lose a
dream .
Pat 

SM Shenanigans






-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owne rs] Amel owner saying
goodbye








 













Good morning Danny,





I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de
Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it
is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right
to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market
value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case
of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the
agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more
than the market value).


That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to
compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that
1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value,
2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher
agreed value) 3) that my expens es were higher than the
average, etc...


So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all
the details.


We have been working since November on this.





So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an
“agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you
want I can show the specific section where what I just
explained is written. That will be in french in my case.





Sincerely, Alexandre





--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye


To: amely achtowners@...


Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM








 
































I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now


have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope
that


would help in the case of a write off.DannySM


299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19


"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...


[amelyachtowners]"


<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





  Dear Rafael,








I think you need to tell


the Group “your” story about the insu rance.





We have the same insurance


Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think


every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they


used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.





It is not “my” place to


tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I
will


write mine with all the details when it will be settled.






I am definitely sorry that


your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and
did


not had the joy of sailing her.





Sincerely, Alexandre








--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie


<no_reply@...>
wrote:





Subject: [Am el Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying


goodbye


To:


amelyachtowners@...


Date:


Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM








 





























Dear


friends AMEL ownersProbably this


will be


the last email that I send and I will withdraw from


the group. The reason is that Hurricane


Irma


destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be


impossible for me to


recover it.The


insurance will only pay a fraction of


what


it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and


other reasons.This situation not only


destroyed my< br>

ship but my dreams. My dreams


of living on board with my


wife, my dreams


of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my





dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other


seas


and finally returning to the beautiful


South of


Chile.


In this


group I gained friends


and knowledge and


for that, I thank each and every one of





you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the
beginning


helped me with their advice.





If


you sail to Chile you will have a


friend


here.Greetings to





all


Fair


windsRafaelSM2k


246











 
< /div>