Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

mfmcgovern@...
 

James,

I found a lot of anecdotes and very little hard data.  I actually did find one study that while it did NOT support the claim that Phillips Head allows more torque transfer, it did conclude the ratio of axial effort to torque transfer was better with Phillips head:  https://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1226&context=theses_open

My main "tip" from the automotive words is to use some kind of anti-seize if you ever have plans to remove the fastener.  

Otherwise, "Heat it and Beat it" is the name of the game.  Heat being the best if you can use it.  Unfortunately, on a boat there's usually too much plastic, fiberglass or wood around to really use it a lot.  However, a MAPP Gas torch was invaluable to me in getting the clutch cones off my bone dry (and slightly bent) windlass shaft. No amount of prying would move them.  Last, use an Impact Driver vs a regular electric drill when trying to remove any fasteners you think might cause you trouble.

Mark McGovern
SM 440 Cara
Deale, MD USA      
 


---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Mark,

   Thanks for your input.  I am really curious to know if you found any data confirming that the Phillips head can transfer more torque to the screw than a slotted head because I would really like to know!   I have generally had worse luck with removing old Phillips screws than slotted but that could be the tools and or technique.  If you have learned any tricks l would be interested to know. 
     Without a doubt the slotted head fastener can be the most difficult to deal with in regards to slippage since there is nothing there to keep the centering.  Also the slot width seems to vary and the available tools seldom fit properly which is critical as Bill K. also states to successfully avoid slippage when applying high torque.  Proper fit usually requires me to grind a fatter tool down.   Finally, the shape of the tool tip is very critical.  Many of the tips I buy are tapered which will cause the tool to cam out of the slot.  What you want is a tip that is actually slightly undercut in that the very end/ tip of the tool is slightly thicker than the part of the tool that would otherwise contact the top of the screw head.  You want to put the pressure on the very bottom of the screw slot, not the top or else the pressure tends to open the slot creating the dreaded Vee shape that wants to cam out.  The bottom edges of the tool should be sharp which seems to cause the tool to bite into the fastener eliminating slippage and allowing the maximum torque to be applied.   I also like to apply a very slight undercut to the bottom face of the tool tip which helps to insure that the tips of the tool are fully engaged.  If you follow all of these steps I think that you will find that the tip will lock into the screw slot quite well so long as the screw itself has the original square slot.  If the screw slot has become Veed in shape due to using an improper tip, corrosion or slippage, carefully reshaping the slot with a dremel, or a tiny sharp file can often restore the slot.  This ability to recover the slotted head shape and potentially the maximum torque for another try at removal is unique I believe to the slotted head as compared to the center drive type fasteners.    I have recut a lot of slotted screw heads and often cut the slot a bit deeper in the process.  

    In the Automotive world I believe that you have another factor that makes the slotted fastener difficult to deal with.  It seems that  corrosion of steel slotted fasteners tends to round off the sharp edges of the slot.  Add that to a bit of oil and they can be almost impossible to remove!

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Aug 8, 2018, at 9:08 AM, mfmcgovern@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I work in automotive and have dealt with my share of seized fasteners.  Which bolt head type is "best" is an age-old question and one that does not really seem to have a definitive, scientific answer.  Here's a pretty good run-down of most of the available options:  https://www.wiha.com/en/screw-head-types/


In reality, the four head types that you can find relatively easy in 316 Stainless Steel in the sizes we would use on an Amel are:

1. Slot Head 
2.  Phillips Head
3.  Socket Head/Allen Head (internal hex)
< div>4.  Hex Head (external hex)

In my experience, Slot Head is by far the worst choice in terms of both the amount of torque you can apply and in keeping the tool on the fastener head.  However, it is available in the most sizes/lengths and is usually the cheapest option.  

Phillips Head will let you apply the most torque to the screw head.  However, you have to be able to apply a good bit of axial force (pushing the screwdriver down into the screw head) in order to avoid the screwdriver slipping out.  

Socket Head/Allen Head/Hex Head is a good choice when you have limited access to the screw head and you can't apply a lot of axial force.  However, you cannot apply a lot of torque to the head before stripping it out.  Socket Head/Allen head are "prettier" and come in a flat head version which can sit flush in countersunk holes like the ones in the SM stanchion bases that we are talking about in this thread.

www.mcmaster.com and www.grainger.com are two good places to find 316 Stainless Steel fasteners in the USA.  


Mark McGovern
SM 440 Cara
Deale, MD USA



Re: Drawer/cupboard pulls

John Clark
 

I would be in for ten of the aluminium as well.  I am open to whatever option has the majority.  I will say that at least on Annie we have a few drawers that are loaded heavily; the aluminium handles would probably be better suited for those spots.  Probably also the frequent use placed like the galley would benefit from the aluminium.

Has anyone contacted Maud to see if Amel would be willing to purchase enough to push the order above 100?

              John

SV Annie SM 37
Le Marin MQ
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] paying Amel for parts order

karkauai
 

I’ve not had a problem Ryan.  I just give Maud the credit card info and it gets charged.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243



 

Hi all,

I recently placed my first parts order with Amel, and I'm having trouble paying them.  I've given them two different US-based credit cards from different issuers and they say both were declined.  Neither card issuer has any record of an attempted charge, so they can't tell me why they were declined, and this implies the problem is on Amel's end.

Amel also gave me wire instructions, but my bank is not able to send wires.

How do you folks pay for your orders?

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Drawer/cupboard pulls

Stephen Davis
 

Hi Kent,

I need the mechanism parts as well. As a guy with a older boat, I can tell you all that those parts do eventually start to fail. 

Mahalo,

Steve Davis
S/V Aloha

On Aug 7, 2018, at 1:29 PM, karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

We are still waiting to hear from Mark McGovern about using his or a friend's 3D printer to do this job....maybe in aluminum???

My printer guy says he'll forego the design fee and work up a price for the mechanism parts there are 3 different parts for each mechanism) on a per each basis if anyone wants some of those.  Please let me know.

So far I have the following people interested, black ABS plastic at $7 each for an order of 100.
Jose 5
Ryan 2
Craig 5
Bill K 14
Steve 20
Kent 15
John 10

That's 71 handles total.  If anyone else is interested, please let me know ASAP
Contact me directly at karkauai "at" yahoo "dot" com

Thanks,
Kent
SM 243
Kristy


Re: paying Amel for parts order

John Clark
 

Yes US banks can be troublesome.  Last year I did a lot of air travel and gave my two primary banks (Bank of America and Chase) my itinerary.  They assured me there would be no problems.  Cards issued by both banks were declined everywhere in Europe, even after I called repeatedly to remind them I was traveling.  Luckily I had a credit card from Capital One, an issuer whom I did not inform that I was traveling.  The Capital One card worked throughout the trip.  After that fiasco I upped the limit on the Capital One card and use it exclusively when traveling outside the US.  I have not had an issue since.  

For Amel, in April 2017 I used Capital One with Amel in Le Marin without issue.    

I am totally confused that two supposedly "big sophisticated international banks" cannot get their act together but the low end Capital One upstart works seamlessly across the globe.

 John
SV Annie SM37
Le Marin, MQ


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] paying Amel for parts order

Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

What an odd bank that can't do an international payment.

Try www.transferwise.com they are fast and cheap.

If your cards were anythingelse than Visa or Mastercard, it could explain the trouble.

/Ann-Sofie
S/Y Lady Annila, SM232



Skickat från min iPad

8 aug. 2018 kl. 15:42 skrev Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi all,

I recently placed my first parts order with Amel, and I'm having trouble paying them.  I've given them two different US-based credit cards from different issuers and they say both were declined.  Neither card issuer has any record of an attempted charge, so they can't tell me why they were declined, and this implies the problem is on Amel's end.

Amel also gave me wire instructions, but my bank is not able to send wires.

How do you folks pay for your orders?

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

James Alton
 

Mark,

   Thanks for your input.  I am really curious to know if you found any data confirming that the Phillips head can transfer more torque to the screw than a slotted head because I would really like to know!   I have generally had worse luck with removing old Phillips screws than slotted but that could be the tools and or technique.  If you have learned any tricks l would be interested to know. 
     Without a doubt the slotted head fastener can be the most difficult to deal with in regards to slippage since there is nothing there to keep the centering.  Also the slot width seems to vary and the available tools seldom fit properly which is critical as Bill K. also states to successfully avoid slippage when applying high torque.  Proper fit usually requires me to grind a fatter tool down.   Finally, the shape of the tool tip is very critical.  Many of the tips I buy are tapered which will cause the tool to cam out of the slot.  What you want is a tip that is actually slightly undercut in that the very end/ tip of the tool is slightly thicker than the part of the tool that would otherwise contact the top of the screw head.  You want to put the pressure on the very bottom of the screw slot, not the top or else the pressure tends to open the slot creating the dreaded Vee shape that wants to cam out.  The bottom edges of the tool should be sharp which seems to cause the tool to bite into the fastener eliminating slippage and allowing the maximum torque to be applied.   I also like to apply a very slight undercut to the bottom face of the tool tip which helps to insure that the tips of the tool are fully engaged.  If you follow all of these steps I think that you will find that the tip will lock into the screw slot quite well so long as the screw itself has the original square slot.  If the screw slot has become Veed in shape due to using an improper tip, corrosion or slippage, carefully reshaping the slot with a dremel, or a tiny sharp file can often restore the slot.  This ability to recover the slotted head shape and potentially the maximum torque for another try at removal is unique I believe to the slotted head as compared to the center drive type fasteners.    I have recut a lot of slotted screw heads and often cut the slot a bit deeper in the process.  

    In the Automotive world I believe that you have another factor that makes the slotted fastener difficult to deal with.  It seems that  corrosion of steel slotted fasteners tends to round off the sharp edges of the slot.  Add that to a bit of oil and they can be almost impossible to remove!

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Aug 8, 2018, at 9:08 AM, mfmcgovern@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I work in automotive and have dealt with my share of seized fasteners.  Which bolt head type is "best" is an age-old question and one that does not really seem to have a definitive, scientific answer.  Here's a pretty good run-down of most of the available options:  https://www.wiha.com/en/screw-head-types/


In reality, the four head types that you can find relatively easy in 316 Stainless Steel in the sizes we would use on an Amel are:

1. Slot Head 
2.  Phillips Head
3.  Socket Head/Allen Head (internal hex)
< div>4.  Hex Head (external hex)

In my experience, Slot Head is by far the worst choice in terms of both the amount of torque you can apply and in keeping the tool on the fastener head.  However, it is available in the most sizes/lengths and is usually the cheapest option.  

Phillips Head will let you apply the most torque to the screw head.  However, you have to be able to apply a good bit of axial force (pushing the screwdriver down into the screw head) in order to avoid the screwdriver slipping out.  

Socket Head/Allen Head/Hex Head is a good choice when you have limited access to the screw head and you can't apply a lot of axial force.  However, you cannot apply a lot of torque to the head before stripping it out.  Socket Head/Allen head are "prettier" and come in a flat head version which can sit flush in countersunk holes like the ones in the SM stanchion bases that we are talking about in this thread.

www.mcmaster.com and www.grainger.com are two good places to find 316 Stainless Steel fasteners in the USA.  


Mark McGovern
SM 440 Cara
Deale, MD USA



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] paying Amel for parts order

greatketch@...
 

Ryan,

We have had the same problem  In our experience the issue is with your bank's security program.  They see a local charge in France, especially one run manually without the card present, and decline it because they know you are in Boston (they know all kinds of stuff...)

Our standard routine with Bank of America is to give Maud the credit card information, she runs it, it is declined.  We call BofA and say "please approve the charge in France".  We tell Maud to run it again.  It is approved.  She gets this all the time, and is very patient with the process.

You can short circuit this if your bank is on the ball by calling ahead and telling them you will be making a charge of "x" dollars in France, and to please pre-approve it.  Sometimes this has worked for us--sometimes not.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Running Rigging

greatketch@...
 

On any lines working with an Andersen Line Tender you'll need to follow Andersen's insistance


and use 12 mm line. This is the mainsail outhaul line, and the mainsail traveler line.

The story is that the 10 mm line used by Amel was bigger and better than everybody else's 10 mm line.  But whatever the cause, in my experience, if you go to your local chandlery and buy 10 mm line as specified in the Amel documents, it WILL slip under load.
 
I installed one of these Andersen Line Tenders as part of my mizzen traveler upgrade.  (one of the best things I did to the boat!) https://fetchinketch.net/boat-projects/mizzen-traveler/ When I first installed it I used 10mm lines because that is what Amel documents specified for the identical application on the main traveller...  they didn't work. When I actually measured the main traveller lines, they were 12 mm OD not 10mm.  Swapping up to 12 mm line solved the issue.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <karkauai@...> wrote :

Thanks, Miles.  I hope you’re having a good Summer.

  I think I have a good picture of the manual furling rig in my mind.  Makes sense to use the same line as the one to drop the main sail.  Do you know if it’s 10 mm? 12mm?

The lists of SM rigging already have lines listed for the outhaul and traveler and jib car lines.  Yes, same material, but I guess 12mm may be what’s recommended now instead of 10mm.  So the “Tack Line” is listed as something different.  Still trying to guess what they’re talking about.

I’ll post pics of everything when the upfit is complete.

Hi to Carol.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] paying Amel for parts order

Mark Erdos
 

Ryan and Kelly,

 

We have had no issues paying Amel by VISA card (from a USA bank).

 

If your bank can’t wire money, time to get a better bank. Wire transfers are common place in the world of cruising.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 10:20 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] paying Amel for parts order

 

 

Hi all,

 

I recently placed my first parts order with Amel, and I'm having trouble paying them.  I've given them two different US-based credit cards from different issuers and they say both were declined.  Neither card issuer has any record of an attempted charge, so they can't tell me why they were declined, and this implies the problem is on Amel's end.

 

Amel also gave me wire instructions, but my bank is not able to send wires.

 

How do you folks pay for your orders?

 

Thanks,

Ryan and Kelly

SM 233 Iteration

Boston, MA, USA

 

 

 


Re: paying Amel for parts order

Craig Briggs
 

Hi again , with an after thought.  If your bank can't send international wire transfers that seems it may not be a "main line" bank, like Chase etc. Perhaps that's the issue.
Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <ryan.d.meador@...> wrote :

Hi all,

I recently placed my first parts order with Amel, and I'm having trouble paying them.  I've given them two different US-based credit cards from different issuers and they say both were declined.  Neither card issuer has any record of an attempted charge, so they can't tell me why they were declined, and this implies the problem is on Amel's end.

Amel also gave me wire instructions, but my bank is not able to send wires.

How do you folks pay for your orders?

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA




Re: paying Amel for parts order

Craig Briggs
 

Hi guys,
We've always use US bank Visa card - always worked fine.
Craig


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] paying Amel for parts order

James Alton
 

Ryan and Kelly,

   I have had this problem on multiple occasions even when I alerted my CC company that a particular charge was to be made.  What I have resorted to that has  worked 100% of the time so far is to call my CC company on one phone, call the vendor on the other and have the CC company follow and approve the transaction.  Nothing else I have tried seems to work.  Once you have a charge on record with Amel with your CC company, your CC company may allow future purchases without going through this ordeal so remember which card you used.

Best of luck,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Aug 8, 2018, at 10:20 AM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Hi all,

I recently placed my first parts order with Amel, and I'm having trouble paying them.  I've given them two different US-based credit cards from different issuers and they say both were declined.  Neither card issuer has any record of an attempted charge, so they can't tell me why they were declined, and this implies the problem is on Amel's end.

Amel also gave me wire instructions, but my bank is not able to send wires.

How do you folks pay for your orders?

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA






Re: paying Amel for parts order

mfmcgovern@...
 

Ryan,

That is odd.  I've used my Fidelity Visa card to pay for orders in both Amel France and Amel Martinique in the past without any issues. 

That said, I might have a relatively easy solution for you.  In trying to send a deposit overseas for a dinghy that's made in New Zealand I discovered this site:  https://transferwise.com/.  It's easy to setup an account and will give you the ability to make overseas transfers in a few days directly from your US bank account.  The exchange rates are excellent compared to any bank I've seen and the fees are cheaper too.  It has some other neat features as well that may or may not interest you.  All in all, it took me 3 days get it set up, have my account verified, and get a wire transfer sent to New Zealand.  It will take only 1 day for the next payment to get there.  

Mark McGovern
SM 440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <ryan.d.meador@...> wrote :

Hi all,

I recently placed my first parts order with Amel, and I'm having trouble paying them.  I've given them two different US-based credit cards from different issuers and they say both were declined.  Neither card issuer has any record of an attempted charge, so they can't tell me why they were declined, and this implies the problem is on Amel's end.

Amel also gave me wire instructions, but my bank is not able to send wires.

How do you folks pay for your orders?

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA




paying Amel for parts order

Ryan Meador
 

Hi all,

I recently placed my first parts order with Amel, and I'm having trouble paying them.  I've given them two different US-based credit cards from different issuers and they say both were declined.  Neither card issuer has any record of an attempted charge, so they can't tell me why they were declined, and this implies the problem is on Amel's end.

Amel also gave me wire instructions, but my bank is not able to send wires.

How do you folks pay for your orders?

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Drawer/cupboard pulls

mfmcgovern@...
 

Kent,

I can make them for $14 out of 6061 Aluminum.  I would like to make at least 20 at that price if at all possible.  We can also have them clear anodized for an additional ~$4 each.  I have not yet received an exact quote from my anodizer but from experience it will be around that price.  Clear anodizing will impart more of a matte/satin finish to the aluminum.  Lead time to make them is 2 weeks.  Add a week if we need to anodize them.  If we do end making some of these, I will make an additional ~10 extra while we are set up so that we will have some in-stock and ready to go if anyone ever needs a few more down the road.  Attached is a rendering of the model.  

My feelings will NOT be hurt if you guys prefer the cheaper 3D printed ABS option!

Mark McGovern
SM 440 Cara
Deale, MD USA




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] changing cockpit cover installation from old Super Maramu to SM2K

karkauai
 

I have no idea what the cost would be, Philipp.  When I get them off if Kristy, I’ll try to find out what it would cost to ship them.  They would be bulky, but not very heavy.  I’ll take some pics and measurements when I get back on Kristy in 2 weeks.

Kent
SM243
Kristy

Hi Kent,

I'm interested but it depends on the dimensions of the package. Because I think, that there are limitations on the cargo transport to La Rochelle Pallice if they have to transport it by post from Brest or Amsterdam .
Do you have an idea about the amount of the costs to transport it to France or Switzerland?

I need your inox tubes or better if it is not to transport, maybe you could send me the dimensions of the inox tubes, that I can let change them by an inox yard in LR.


Many thanks for your perfect service!

Fair winds,

Philipp


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Drawer/cupboard pulls

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Kent,
You can kick my order up to 10 if it helps get to the minimum of 100 total.
Craig


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Running Rigging

karkauai
 

Thanks, Miles.  I hope you’re having a good Summer.

  I think I have a good picture of the manual furling rig in my mind.  Makes sense to use the same line as the one to drop the main sail.  Do you know if it’s 10 mm? 12mm?

The lists of SM rigging already have lines listed for the outhaul and traveler and jib car lines.  Yes, same material, but I guess 12mm may be what’s recommended now instead of 10mm.  So the “Tack Line” is listed as something different.  Still trying to guess what they’re talking about.

I’ll post pics of everything when the upfit is complete.

Hi to Carol.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy



Hello Kent,

 

The Tack Rope material is what Amel uses for the outhaul on the boom and for the main sheet car traveler.  I think that if you measure them you will find this to be the case.

 

For manually furling the genoa,  my boat came with a black and white line that is also used to attach to the short main halyard for lowering the main sail and to furl the genoa.  For the Genoa, the ends are tied together to make a big loop, then led around the furler to two blocks at the toe rail and back to either the power or small winch and then to a block held by a long bungee to the back big deck cleat.  

 

I hope that this is clear enough to make sense.  If you see it on another boat, it will be clear.

 

I will be interested to hear how your work on the boat turns out.

Regards,

Miles

s/y Ladybug, sm216, Newport, RI


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] changing cockpit cover installation from old Super Maramu to SM2K

karkauai
 

Agreed, Danny.
I have a full cockpit enclosure, but it’s getting very tired after 10 years.  I can’t stand up in the cockpit without bending over a bit.

I’m removing the old cockpit cover and installing a new frame that attaches to the dodger and both mizzen shrouds on each side to cover the whole cockpit.  It will have a full cockpit enclosure, and I’ll be able to stand up and see all around with the “Bimini” up all the time and with the full enclosure in place.  I’m adding two more flexible solar panels on this as well.  It will have two large “windows” that allow viewing the sails, with covers to keep the sun out when not in use.  I’m also making a full sunscreen enclosure that will help with insects as well.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

Hi Kent,

I'm not sure what you mean by a bimini type top but I offer this anyway. I think the most valuable addition to Ocean Pearl was the full cockpit enclosure, from the windscreen to behind the mizzen. Obviously we used the existing Amel bars and covers and attached to them.

In 47000 miles (I clicked over 47000 today) sailing we have never donned wet weather gear.  When sailing down wind in moderate to strong winds and rain, without the rear curtains life would be miserable.

And you most certainly need full front and side protection cause that is where the big sea splashes come in.

While the top from the Amel frame to our "behind mizzen" bar is zip removable we seldom remove it. As are all the side and back curtains The side and rear curtains roll up and down easily. This cover system turns the cockpit into an all weather extension of the cabin. I decided when we were looking for a boat a full cockpit enclosure was non negotiable. I was not going to ask Yvonne to bake to the sun and freeze in the rain for the two years voyage we had planned.(10 years ago)

I'll say again, that cockpit enclosure is invaluable for the increased pleasure it gives.

And those guys and gals in their bimini "unprotected" twin wheel rear helm stations that look so flash in the marinas are wrapped up in wet weather gear and getting wet top and bottom

Kind Regards

Danny


15521 - 15540 of 56749