Date   

Re: Power draw at anchor

Gary Wells
 

I did put a spst switch at the fuel gauge to eliminate that draw. As well, I have made the "permanent" converters (24v/12v) switchable.
I had one other mystery draw and that was high-water alarm/bilge pump switch which had an electronic sensor and drew a small current all the time.

At the start of my quest I had about 0.38a draw but it's a zero now when everything is shut down.

If you have any fixtures that have USB charging ports, they will draw a little with their converters as well. 

Finally (I had to chase a 12v leak as well) if there is any build up of calcium or other corrosion on connectors to pumps or other hardware that might be a way for tiny amperage leaks to find a way to ground. 

Gary W.
s/v Adagio, SM 209
Gran Canaria


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo D2-75 for a SuperMaramu

michael winand
 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. If you don't mind sharing with us what a beta60 is going to cost for the engine above earth. and what panel you chose.
 In your area of the world .
I  think many of us who are going through the process would be grateful. 

On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 18:37, crwggb@... [amelyachtowners]
wrote:
 

The answer to all this is in the torque curves. As you say Danny 2800 is the max on the Amel TMD22A installation. This effectively limits its max OP to approx 60HP. I have been very happy with this performance for the past 14 years as are many other owners. Looking at the torque curve for the TMD you will see max torque is at around 2500 RPM, hence  its susceptibility to a fowled prop/bottom. Compare that to the hugely bigger torque at similar RPM on the D2-75 and that is why it will push through to its advertised rpm despite the fowling.


Amel should really have rebadged the TMD22A with a 60HP label.... but of course thats not what sells boats! Given that I've been very happy with a "60HP" engine for all these years its the main reason I'm looking at the BETA 60. It has no turbo and no electronic control boxes and will fit very comfortably in the space. At cruising RPM (2000 to 2100) that will give 7kts it produces 170nm torque compared to the TMD22A...same RPM but153nm torque. The beta tops out at 2700 rpm. So essentially it does exactly what the tmd22a has been doing all these years...but without the turbo.

The BETA man is coming to the boat on Monday I'll keep you posted on how it all goes.

Graham


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

Arthur Sundqvist
 

10. Or. 12mm. Chain?

Arthur
SM 435. Vista


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo D2-75 for a SuperMaramu

Graham Boyd
 

The answer to all this is in the torque curves. As you say Danny 2800 is the max on the Amel TMD22A installation. This effectively limits its max OP to approx 60HP. I have been very happy with this performance for the past 14 years as are many other owners. Looking at the torque curve for the TMD you will see max torque is at around 2500 RPM, hence  its susceptibility to a fowled prop/bottom. Compare that to the hugely bigger torque at similar RPM on the D2-75 and that is why it will push through to its advertised rpm despite the fowling.

Amel should really have rebadged the TMD22A with a 60HP label.... but of course thats not what sells boats! Given that I've been very happy with a "60HP" engine for all these years its the main reason I'm looking at the BETA 60. It has no turbo and no electronic control boxes and will fit very comfortably in the space. At cruising RPM (2000 to 2100) that will give 7kts it produces 170nm torque compared to the TMD22A...same RPM but153nm torque. The beta tops out at 2700 rpm. So essentially it does exactly what the tmd22a has been doing all these years...but without the turbo.

The BETA man is coming to the boat on Monday I'll keep you posted on how it all goes.

Graham


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

Arthur Sundqvist
 

Thank you. Here in. Stockholm winter is coming.
Do you use 12 or 10 mm chain ?

Kind Regards
Arthur
SM 435. Vista


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

Arthur Sundqvist
 

Thank you. Bill for always thinking two steps ahead.
12 or 10 mm chain???
Best
Arthur
SM 435, Vista


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

Arthur Sundqvist
 

Thank you. Sounds. Good. Do you har 10 or 12 mm chain?
Arthur
SM 435 Vista


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

James Studdart
 

We also use a 40kg rocna. Flawless, we’ve never dragged once it’s set.

Cheers,
James.
SeaBean, SM344

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 17:39 Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I made a mock-up out of heavy cardboard using full sized drawings from Rocna before ordering.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819


On Nov 15, 2018, at 5:17 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Please remember that not all bow rollers are the same on all SMs.



On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 4:07 PM Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am very happy with my 40kg Rocna.  Snugs up nicely on the bow roller, sets and holds better than anything else I’ve used.


Kent
SM243
Kristy
Still stuck in snowy rainy cold Maryland...wondering if we’ll ever get out of here.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Nov 15, 2018, at 3:04 PM, arthur@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You who use The Rocna anchor and are sailing an SM wich size are working best?


Kind regards

Arthur Sundqvist

SM 435, Vista



New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

amelyachtowners@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the amelyachtowners
group.

File : /Cordage types.docx
Uploaded by : alan_leslie_sv_elyse <divanz620@yahoo.fr>
Description : Good clear explanation of different types

You can access this file at the URL:
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To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

karkauai
 

I made a mock-up out of heavy cardboard using full sized drawings from Rocna before ordering.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Nov 15, 2018, at 5:17 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Please remember that not all bow rollers are the same on all SMs.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 4:07 PM Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am very happy with my 40kg Rocna.  Snugs up nicely on the bow roller, sets and holds better than anything else I’ve used.


Kent
SM243
Kristy
Still stuck in snowy rainy cold Maryland...wondering if we’ll ever get out of here.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Nov 15, 2018, at 3:04 PM, arthur@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You who use The Rocna anchor and are sailing an SM wich size are working best?


Kind regards

Arthur Sundqvist

SM 435, Vista



Re: Rocna anchor

greatketch@...
 

Arthur,

Everyone I know of who uses a Rocna on a Super Maramu uses a 40kg/88lb model.

The next size smaller is a 33kg, which is on the small side, and the next size larger is a 55kg which is getting very large to fit on the bow.


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wash your- Main outhaul rope

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Thanks Eric. I have bought another dyneema 12mm line with a more abrasive outer. I will try that but thanks for the tip.
Regards
Danny
Sm 299 ocean pearl

On 16/11/2018 11:06, "eric kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

If you have Dyneema, try washing it in a porous bag in a washing machine.
The fabrication process makes the surface "oily' . Once washed it is much more useful and not so slippery.
Fair winds,
eric
Sm 376 Kimberlite.
Simpson Bay St Maarten


On Thu, Nov 01, 2018 at 01:34 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hi Bill,

I was on the boat yesterday and tried tightening to line. While it had been pretty tight before I did manage to get a bit more out of it. It is tighter now than I think would be good for bearings. I will try it next time I go out and see if it still slips.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 02 November 2018 at 01:57 "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Thanks for that. I guess some Dyneema rope is slipperier than other. I will start recommending Vectran.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School  www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 19:28 Danny Simms sailorman.ds@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@... wrote:
 

 

Hi Bill, yes bar tight. And I couldn't believe how fast and far it slipped in 18 knots of wind Thanks for the page
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean pearl

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 at 09:23, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Danny, maybe it wasn't tight enough. I know at least 10 others that have not had the problem. Did you use the outhaul to really get it tight?

I am sending you a page out of my book.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 2:14 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Hi Bill,

yes I tried to get Kevlar and had to take dyneema 12mm. I fitted it very tightly but useless, as soon as the breeze came up it slipped dramatically. I agree with you about it diminishing in diameter but I think the casing is very slick too. It would seem 14mm might be a try but I doubt if it will work. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean pearl

On 01 November 2018 at 07:37 "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Danny,

Amel used Kevlar 10mm on the SM. It is nearly impossible to find.

Amel suggests 12mm Dyneema:
The issue was not with the strength because Dyneema line is stronger than Kevlar. The issue is that most rope manufacturers are taking fiber from the middle of the rope and 10mm isn't really 10mm anymore. I purchased some 10mm that I could squeeze with my fingers to 7mm. Look at the Anderson Line Tender. You will see that if you can squeeze 10mm to 7mm, the line will certainly slip.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM Danny Simms sailorman.ds@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Hi All,
A little while ago a number of you posted on replacing the control line for the mainsail out haul. I remember dyneema was not successful. Can some one remind me of what type was the best.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl

 

 

 

 


 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 


 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

 

Please remember that not all bow rollers are the same on all SMs.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 4:07 PM Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am very happy with my 40kg Rocna.  Snugs up nicely on the bow roller, sets and holds better than anything else I’ve used.


Kent
SM243
Kristy
Still stuck in snowy rainy cold Maryland...wondering if we’ll ever get out of here.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Nov 15, 2018, at 3:04 PM, arthur@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You who use The Rocna anchor and are sailing an SM wich size are working best?


Kind regards

Arthur Sundqvist

SM 435, Vista



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo D2-75 for a SuperMaramu

John Clark
 

Agree with Dan, my TMD-22 4500hrs at 2016 survey with clean hull and prop maxed at 2750rpm at 7.5kts.  Just before haulout this year with  some minor hull growth, and a few barnacles on the fixed prop she was down to 2400 rpm and 5 kts top speed.  After we relaunched with fresh paint and clean prop she was right back to survey performance.    If the new Volvo has a computer I would rather stick with the TMD-22 or look for something without a computer.   The TMD-22 may not be as high performance as a brand new engine but it is reliable at least it has been for me the last two years.

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Le Marin


On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 2:58 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


---------- Original Message ----------
I got a notice this had not gone through, so here again

Danny


Hi Graham,

another year and still fine. 850 hours on the clock. Early on there was an issue with the turbo and it was replaced under warranty and has been OK since. As I have said before fitting a new engine you will pay as much for the fitting as you do for the motor itself. I avoided that by sitting right on top of the process and doing most of the physical unbuttoning of the old engine and helping where I could with the install. It had identical spacing of the engine mount holes so we just had to make spacers to give the exact height. No alignment problems at all, it just slipped into place. . Had to have a bracket made to take the 24 volt house bank alternator. There was no neat spot for it like the TMD 22 so the bracket is on the front of the motor. You will be amazed at the quantum of the wiring looms that come with it, but I guess that applies to any engine. Given my time over I would do the rebuild, putting a new engine in is a complex business but I have no complaint about the D2 -75. One interesting thing. The TMD was very sensitive to fouling on the autoprop, losing revs, this motor seems impervious, the prop can be covered in barnacles and it still does its 3000 rpm. I can only assume it has a powerful governor that calls on spare power.

As to your revs with the TMD 22. 2800 IS THE CORRECT RPM UNDER LOAD. i'LL SAY IT AGAIN. 2800 IS THE CORRECT RPM UNDER LOAD. Do not replace your engine if that is your "problem" Yes it will cheerfully spin up to 4000 rpm in neutral but 2800 is what you get under load.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 14 November 2018 at 17:07 "crwggb@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Danny,

You are now a further year in with your Volvo D2-75. How is it going?

I would love to do a rebuild of the TMD22 but it's not vaguely economical here in Hong Kong.

After everything Ive read on the Amel forum I was more of less convinced that the D2-75 was the engine for me too. As such have been googling this engine for reliability and the reading is not good concerning the mechanical data interface unit, some of which it appears Volvo have just recalled. They are now onto their 6th version of the MDI. Have you had any trouble with this item. Although this engine claims to be "electronics free" it's actually not.

Yanmar are quite hard to deal with when it comes to the isolated negative earth with huge lead times, which has got me running back to Beta ....which is where I actually started.

The Beta man looked at the SM and the power curves for the TMD22A. None of us have ever got that engine above 2800 rpm which is actually at best 60HP! 78 HP doesn't occur until 4500rpm. We have all been sailing round the world quite happily with that out put for many years. He suggested to me the BETA 60 was the the ideal replacement as it almost exactly replicates that part of the TMD22A power curve that we've only ever been able to use but at a higher torque. These days every one seems determined to put bigger and bigger engines in their boats, but I'm not convinced!

If you've time I'd love to hear how your D2-75 is going?

Graham
SM140 Sula
Hong Kong


 


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

karkauai
 

I am very happy with my 40kg Rocna.  Snugs up nicely on the bow roller, sets and holds better than anything else I’ve used.

Kent
SM243
Kristy
Still stuck in snowy rainy cold Maryland...wondering if we’ll ever get out of here.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Nov 15, 2018, at 3:04 PM, arthur@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You who use The Rocna anchor and are sailing an SM wich size are working best?


Kind regards

Arthur Sundqvist

SM 435, Vista



Wash your- Main outhaul rope

eric freedman
 


Rocna anchor

Arthur Sundqvist
 

You who use The Rocna anchor and are sailing an SM wich size are working best?


Kind regards

Arthur Sundqvist

SM 435, Vista



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo D2-75 for a SuperMaramu

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 


---------- Original Message ----------
I got a notice this had not gone through, so here again

Danny


Hi Graham,

another year and still fine. 850 hours on the clock. Early on there was an issue with the turbo and it was replaced under warranty and has been OK since. As I have said before fitting a new engine you will pay as much for the fitting as you do for the motor itself. I avoided that by sitting right on top of the process and doing most of the physical unbuttoning of the old engine and helping where I could with the install. It had identical spacing of the engine mount holes so we just had to make spacers to give the exact height. No alignment problems at all, it just slipped into place. . Had to have a bracket made to take the 24 volt house bank alternator. There was no neat spot for it like the TMD 22 so the bracket is on the front of the motor. You will be amazed at the quantum of the wiring looms that come with it, but I guess that applies to any engine. Given my time over I would do the rebuild, putting a new engine in is a complex business but I have no complaint about the D2 -75. One interesting thing. The TMD was very sensitive to fouling on the autoprop, losing revs, this motor seems impervious, the prop can be covered in barnacles and it still does its 3000 rpm. I can only assume it has a powerful governor that calls on spare power.

As to your revs with the TMD 22. 2800 IS THE CORRECT RPM UNDER LOAD. i'LL SAY IT AGAIN. 2800 IS THE CORRECT RPM UNDER LOAD. Do not replace your engine if that is your "problem" Yes it will cheerfully spin up to 4000 rpm in neutral but 2800 is what you get under load.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 14 November 2018 at 17:07 "crwggb@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Danny,

You are now a further year in with your Volvo D2-75. How is it going?

I would love to do a rebuild of the TMD22 but it's not vaguely economical here in Hong Kong.

After everything Ive read on the Amel forum I was more of less convinced that the D2-75 was the engine for me too. As such have been googling this engine for reliability and the reading is not good concerning the mechanical data interface unit, some of which it appears Volvo have just recalled. They are now onto their 6th version of the MDI. Have you had any trouble with this item. Although this engine claims to be "electronics free" it's actually not.

Yanmar are quite hard to deal with when it comes to the isolated negative earth with huge lead times, which has got me running back to Beta ....which is where I actually started.

The Beta man looked at the SM and the power curves for the TMD22A. None of us have ever got that engine above 2800 rpm which is actually at best 60HP! 78 HP doesn't occur until 4500rpm. We have all been sailing round the world quite happily with that out put for many years. He suggested to me the BETA 60 was the the ideal replacement as it almost exactly replicates that part of the TMD22A power curve that we've only ever been able to use but at a higher torque. These days every one seems determined to put bigger and bigger engines in their boats, but I'm not convinced!

If you've time I'd love to hear how your D2-75 is going?

Graham
SM140 Sula
Hong Kong


 


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Power draw at anchor

Mark Erdos
 

Jim,

 

The math is not quite correct. If you have 8 batteries, that is 4 sets of two batteries. When you connect 2 batteries to get 24v this doesn’t increase the Ah. Hence, you have 440 total Ah and at 40% usage this equates to 176 usable Ah.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2018 1:14 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Power draw at anchor

 

 

If my math is right and if your SM is equipped with 8  110Ah batteries and you are drawing 0.1 Amps continuously then theoretically it would take 146 days,16 hours to run your batteries down to 60% charged.

 

If you were drawing 0.2A then it would be half of that, 73 days, 8 hours.

 

For the 12 battery  "comfort pak" model it would be 220 days and 110 days, respectively.

 

8 X 110 = 880 Total Ah

880 X 40% = 352 Usable Ah

352/0.1 = 3,520 hours available at 0.1A draw

3520/24 = 146.66 Days

 

Hope that helps, or is at least mildly interesting trivia,

 

Jim

SM384 Sirena Azul


Power Draw at anchor-redux

Thomas Peacock
 

Thanks to all for your thoughts. I'll briefly summarize what I have found.


I suspect that for most of you, it's not a big concern. You are either living aboard, in a slip with 220 volts, have at least a small solar panel, or are not as obsessive/compulsive as I am. Our situation is one of leaving the boat in a very secure mooring ball field in St Augustine. In the past, after six weeks of not being there, the house batteries used to be down to about 30% of normal. Not a huge concern, certainly deep cycle batteries can handle that. However, I always found it unsettling that I did not know what the unknown draw was. I do not recall what the Mastervolt showed at that time.

I had in the past ascribed the battery loss to the "permanent" 24 v -> 12 v Sailor transformer. However, I have bypassed and defused that particular device (ours do not have on/off switches as pictured in the SM manual). I was then down to 0.2 amp draw by the Mastervolt, but that it still 200 amp-hours in six weeks. Where was it going?

The fuel gauge was a very silent partner in that phenomenon. I consider myself lucky that I discovered that it was drawing power, it isn't something that comes to mind easily. Again, it is a mystery to me how it is wired. The wires seemingly go into the engine room, but are not visible there; I suspect they are under the foam sound insulation. I can find no breaker that will de-power the gauge; I can find no fuse near the batteries that would be intended for it. Throwing the large battery switches will de-power it, and also take the amp draw down to 0.0.

Undoing the wires to the gauge drops the amp draw from 0.2 to 0.1. Bill Rouse suggests that may be "margin of error" by the Mastervolt, which may be the case, although it seems to be a very solidly engineered device. My sense is that there is still some device on board that is "parasitizing" the electrical system. 


For now, she is on the mooring ball, drawing 0.1 amps. The large battery switches are on, as turning them off will also de-power the bilge pump. I will see what the total draw is in 6 weeks,


Still a nagging question for me is the wiring for the fuel gauge. We have a LaRochelle electrical diagram on board, but it does not include the gauge. Just for my own curiosity, would appreciate any insights on that topic. 


Thanks as always

Tom Peacock

Aletes SM 240 St Augustine Florida


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