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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

Mark Erdos
 

Duane,

 

I can’t help with the parts for this but suggest you have at least two pumps aboard. I use two pumps in rotation. Rather pull the plate off to access the impeller, I swap out the entire pump. It is only two bolts. It is much easier to replace the impeller with the pump off than do it when on the genset. The 3rd pump is a spare (new)

 

FYI: The pump is made by Sherwood and is a lot cheaper on Amazon or eBay rather than Onan (if memory serves well it is Sherwood Pump G702)

 

Also, I added a trap to catch impeller fragments between the pump outlet hose and the heat exchanger. This is much easier than having to retrieve impeller blades from the heat exchanger.

 

Hope this hopes. I figured, whilst you are there you could make it better.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2018 2:42 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

 

 

Bill,

 

 

Is there anything complex about rebuilding the pump?  It looks like I would order parts 4 thru 12 and a simple matter of replacements.  

 

Can the shaft (part 1) be removed without worrying about orientation?  Would you also replace the Body (part 3)?

 

The local West Marine rep told me I'd probably have to go to Annapolis for the parts, since you're in Annapolis any suggestions?  I'm now in Lewes, DE on our way to Marthas Vineyard and Cape Cod.

 

Thanks for your replies!

Duane

Wanderer, SM#477

Currently in Lewes, DE

 
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Mark Erdos
 

Ryan,

 

This is the age old question! Should I run at a higher RPM for an extra knot but half the fuel efficiency? The diesel engine manufacturer says yes, my wallet says no.

 

Our personal preference under engine only is about 1800 RPM (Yanmar 4jh4). This is where we burn about a gallon of fuel per hour and can get about 6 knots pretty easily. When motor sailing – we will run at 14-1500 RPM. The fuel burn is about ¾ gal per hour.

 

If you decide to run the engine at lower RPM to save fuel (as we do), then it is very important to run the engine hard for about 5 minutes every hour. For us this is 26-2800 RPM. This will eliminate carbon build up in the exhaust system and prolong the life of the engine. Diesel engines prefer to be run hard about 80% of max RPM. Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual. I would assume the same is true for Volvo.

 

Hope this helps

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2018 2:35 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Hi all,

 

I've dug through the forum history on the topic of the "correct" RPM range for the Super Maramu, and I haven't quite found what I want.  What I have learned is there probably is no single, correct answer -- it depends on the engine and the prop.  But what I really want to know is not what RPM I should be seeing at wide open throttle, but what RPM I should be cruising at?  By this I mean the RPM you would use if you needed to motor for a long period of time.  If the max RPM is different for everyone, it stands to reason that cruising RPM should also be different for everyone.  Is there some way of calculating this RPM from the max?  I've heard a rule of thumb of 80% of max RPM, but given that some of our engines are "over-propped" by design, I don't know if it applies, or even if it's a good rule in the first place.  Should we rev to whatever is necessary to go a certain speed?  Is there any harm in operating the engine close to/at wide open throttle for extended periods of time?

 

For the record, I have a Volvo TMD22 (B?)..  I typically cruise at around 2400rpm, which yields a boat speed of about 6.5kts.  I have a fixed three-blade prop (probably the original spare).  I think the boat went faster at this RPM last year when I first bought her, but that could be me misremembering the RPM, or the tachometer going out of calibration, or the fact that I badly need a bottom job (though I had it scraped only a couple weeks ago).  I do not know my max RPM; my engine needs a new timing belt and I don't think it's prudent to stress it until that is replaced.  The fastest I've gone is about 2600 and I'm sure it can go higher.  I saw around 7.2kts STW at that speed.

 

Thanks,

Ryan and Kelly

SM 233 Iteration

Boston, MA, USA
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Ryan. TMD 22 correct full throttle rpm under load is 2800. It will do over 4000 no load. Cruising rpm is a mstter of chpice. The higher the rpm the more fuell used. The increase in fuel use is greater than the speed increase. The law of diminishing returns. I keep at 2000 or less. Motor sailing at low rpm gives good efficiency.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean pearl

On 07 July 2018 at 06:35 "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,

I've dug through the forum history on the topic of the "correct" RPM range for the Super Maramu, and I haven't quite found what I want.  What I have learned is there probably is no single, correct answer -- it depends on the engine and the prop.  But what I really want to know is not what RPM I should be seeing at wide open throttle, but what RPM I should be cruising at?  By this I mean the RPM you would use if you needed to motor for a long period of time.  If the max RPM is different for everyone, it stands to reason that cruising RPM should also be different for everyone.  Is there some way of calculating this RPM from the max?  I've heard a rule of thumb of 80% of max RPM, but given that some of our engines are "over-propped" by design, I don't know if it applies, or even if it's a good rule in the first place.  Should we rev to whatever is necessary to go a certain speed?  Is there any harm in operating the engine close to/at wide open throttle for extended periods of time?

For the record, I have a Volvo TMD22 (B?)..  I typically cruise at around 2400rpm, which yields a boat speed of about 6.5kts.  I have a fixed three-blade prop (probably the original spare).  I think the boat went faster at this RPM last year when I first bought her, but that could be me misremembering the RPM, or the tachometer going out of calibration, or the fact that I badly need a bottom job (though I had it scraped only a couple weeks ago).  I do not know my max RPM; my engine needs a new timing belt and I don't think it's prudent to stress it until that is replaced.  The fastest I've gone is about 2600 and I'm sure it can go higher.  I saw around 7.2kts STW at that speed.

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

 


 


 
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Freshwater Pump - pressure sensing mechanical switch

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Hi Bill

Wow , thank you... that is most helpful and a lot of very accurate and excellent information as usual. In our case, you are correct that I started at the bottom of your list, rather than at the tops and this is partially what got me into a lot of trouble in trying to get everything working again. This was because it was simply too tempting to get stuck right in and adjust those two nuts (which seemed to hold all the keys to fixing this problem) without first taking a photo of their original settings, and/or finding a manual on-line somewhere, about how to do those adjustments!  As you well know, once you have done that, it is a huge job of testing and adjusting backwards and forwards (with taps on and off again in hundreds of permutations) to get the settings precisely right again.

In our case it turned out to be a combination of issues at play, but particularly item #7, and #6 on your list firstly, ie. the electrical contacts have failed and need replacing (plus adjusting again) but all items #1 - 5 were methodically are checked and are fine. Furthermore, for some reason, on dis-assembling the entire unit, I have found that the thread on the original switch was completely corroded inside... to the point where only 50% of the thread remains, so that entire unit is only surviving on life support, hence my decision in the end today to spend the money and get an entire new unit from the Amel factory. Fortunately Thierry has also come back today to confirm he had the new version of this switch (used on the 55 and 50 now) available to be couriered to me in Reunion next week. By all accounts it looks like that will fit straight onto this original pump on the 53.

I had already methodically gone through the other items, including following Alan's detailed info on cleaning/ checking the one way valve, and eliminating that issue, as that was totally clean and still in good working order.

We were not aware of "Square D", nor have I ever come across pressure switches for sale across Asia or in Australia in hardware stores. I guess in the USA it is much easier, but perhaps I was looking in the wrong places, and certainly here in Mauritius these are not available anywhere, other than purchasing a complete new pump and pressure switch which I have also done as an interim measure,to get us by (and as future backup) until the new switch arrives from Amel.

Once again thank you for your detailed assistance Bill, as well as all the others who contributed on this topic.

Fair winds

Colin Streeter
SV Island Pearl, Amel Super Maramu 2000 #332
Grand Bay, Mauritius


On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 5:36 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Colin,

In the following, I assume that you have an unmodified Amel OEM 66b (standard) or 88b (optional) fresh water pump..

Square D is worldwide and commonly used on water-well pumps throughout the world. It is a very good and reliable pressure switch with a life of around 10-15 years. It difficult to get adjusted correctly. If you search online, you will find several videos and Square D instructions. In my Amel School Book I have 10 pages devoted to the Amel OEM fresh water pump and pressure switch, which I will summarize for you.

Your Amel OEM freshwater pump originally cost 600-900 € and is completely rebuildable. There are several things that could be wrong which I will list in order of probability:
  1. The wet-side of the Square D electro-mechanical valve is clogged with debris
  2. The one-way valve is either worn out or compromised with a piece of debris.
  3. There is a suction leak
  4. The impeller is broken or otherwise compromised.
  5. The impeller key has moved
  6. The Square D mechanical switches need adjustment 
  7. The Square D mechanical/electrical switches have electrically failed (poor contact).
I think that you may have started at the bottom, rather than the top of the above list. Also, it sounds like you might have made an error in wiring to the switch...there are 3 wires to the switch: 24VDC positive, 24VDC negative, and 24VDC positive output to the pilot light on the 24VDC panel.

I have more information than above, you might want to email me directly at ADMbill "at" amelschool.com

The Jabsco pump you discussed is basically a throw-away pump. If you go that route, buy 2 pumps so that you have a replacement when the first fails. Your AMEL OEM pump is no longer available, but very good freshwater pumps from MARCO (www.marco.it) are available. I would suggest the MARCO UP12/A Water pressure system PTFE gears 9.5 gpm. Plus ATX2 Stainless steel accumulator. Part N 16468013 & 16508110...about 340€ for the pump and 80€ for the accumulator...OR you could use UP6/A Water pressure system 6.9 gpm. Part N 16462013 & 16508110 ...about 245€ for the pump and 80€ for the accumulator. Email Email export "at" marco.it BTW, Amel School Clients get a 20% Discount at MARCO in Europe/worldwide and the US through their distributor mate-usa.com.

I hope this helps.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970






On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 12:36 PM colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

We have had as issue with our freshwater pump remaining on when it shouldn't, and have tried all potential remedies we could find in the files on this forum, but to no avail. Amel does not have a new one available for us despite the same switch being used on both the 53's and 54's and possibly beyond.


The pump, one way valve, and pressure cylinder are all working as designed, so we removed the housing off the pressure switch itself, and initially fiddled with the settings (by screwing both adjustment bolts in and out in different sequences) which is pretty much a black art as we have no manual showing how to set this mechanism (min pressure for pump to switch on and max pressure for pump to switch off).


Having no luck with this today we took the entire mechanical switch apart and on putting it back together now nothing works! Such is life!


A fellow Amel 54 cruiser here (previously owned a SM from new for 8 yea rs) informs me that he is aware that many other owners have done away with the original freshwater pump in favour of the Jabsco freshwater pump, (without the pressure cylinder) and actually prefer those allbeit they are slightly more noisy. Aparently they provide a smooth flow even without the pressure balancing cylinder.


With no suitable Jabsco pumps available here in Mauritius, I am looking at temporary alternatives but thought there may be some wisdom in this group about: 

1) someone has a manual for this switch and could kindly send it to us at svislandpearl@...; or 

2) some of you may have encountered this problem before, and already made step by step instructions on correct re-assembly/parts list, as well as adjustment advice for the mechanical/electrical pressure switch to work correctly; and/or 

3) some of you have already converted to the Jabsco (or equivalent) pumps and could offer some warnings and/or advice regardin g max psi model to purchase, as well as how you best plumbed it in.


In our usual style with backups for everything on Island Pearl II, I am planning to both fix/replace the existing Amel supplied unit,  and also add a second "jabsco style" option with plumbing done so that we have a quick flick over switch to use the other if either fails in future.


Fair winds & following seas


Colin, SV Island Pearl II; SM #332

Mauritius

svislandpearl.com




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Drawer/cupboard pulls

karkauai
 

Great, the more options, the better.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Jul 6, 2018, at 1:42 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I'd be interested in a couple.  I also have a friend who works at a company that does 3D printing of stainless steel and titanium.  I will see if I can convince her to make these; they might be better than the originals.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 12:55 PM jvenegas@alum..mit.edu [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Ken,


I would be in for 5 spares if you have them printed.

Thank you

Jose

Ipanema SM2K 278
Constitution Marina
Boston, MA
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Drawer/cupboard pulls

karkauai
 

OK, I’ll post when I get some answers.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Jul 6, 2018, at 12:47 PM, jvenegas@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ken,


I would be in for 5 spares if you have them printed.

Thank you

Jose

Ipanema SM2K 278
Constitution Marina
Boston, MA
Re: engine cruising RPM

Duane Siegfri
 

Hi Ryan,

I'll be interested in the replies!  We've been told that the best fuel economy is at 1800 to 2000 rpm's.  In smooth water we will get 5.5 kts at 1800 rpm.

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477
Re: Onan Water Pump

Duane Siegfri
 

Bill,


Is there anything complex about rebuilding the pump?  It looks like I would order parts 4 thru 12 and a simple matter of replacements.  

Can the shaft (part 1) be removed without worrying about orientation?  Would you also replace the Body (part 3)?

The local West Marine rep told me I'd probably have to go to Annapolis for the parts, since you're in Annapolis any suggestions?  I'm now in Lewes, DE on our way to Marthas Vineyard and Cape Cod.

Thanks for your replies!
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477
Currently in Lewes, DE
 
engine cruising RPM

Ryan Meador
 

Hi all,

I've dug through the forum history on the topic of the "correct" RPM range for the Super Maramu, and I haven't quite found what I want.  What I have learned is there probably is no single, correct answer -- it depends on the engine and the prop.  But what I really want to know is not what RPM I should be seeing at wide open throttle, but what RPM I should be cruising at?  By this I mean the RPM you would use if you needed to motor for a long period of time.  If the max RPM is different for everyone, it stands to reason that cruising RPM should also be different for everyone.  Is there some way of calculating this RPM from the max?  I've heard a rule of thumb of 80% of max RPM, but given that some of our engines are "over-propped" by design, I don't know if it applies, or even if it's a good rule in the first place.  Should we rev to whatever is necessary to go a certain speed?  Is there any harm in operating the engine close to/at wide open throttle for extended periods of time?

For the record, I have a Volvo TMD22 (B?).  I typically cruise at around 2400rpm, which yields a boat speed of about 6.5kts.  I have a fixed three-blade prop (probably the original spare).  I think the boat went faster at this RPM last year when I first bought her, but that could be me misremembering the RPM, or the tachometer going out of calibration, or the fact that I badly need a bottom job (though I had it scraped only a couple weeks ago).  I do not know my max RPM; my engine needs a new timing belt and I don't think it's prudent to stress it until that is replaced.  The fastest I've gone is about 2600 and I'm sure it can go higher.  I saw around 7.2kts STW at that speed.

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Drawer/cupboard pulls

greatketch@...
 

Titanium drawer pulls!  Cool!

Wow!  Now THAT is boat jewelry!  Bling! Bling!

I would want the idea of one just to yank the chain of some racing sailors I know who would sell their mother's souls to save a kilo of weight from their boats!
Re: Onan Water Pump

greatketch@...
 

Duane,

There are only two leak paths with this pump. The obvious one is from around the cover. Depending on which pump version you have, that might be sealed with an o-ring or a paper gasket. 

The other path is if the shaft seal is leaking. Then water drips not from where it bolts to the engine, but from a hole an inch or two before that. It is designed this way so a shaft seal leak does not put raw water in the engine oil!

If the shaft seal is leaking, the pump needs to be removed from the engine and rebuilt. Since the bearings have now been "washed" with salt water they should probably be changed with the seals. 

It is not an uncommon problem as the pump ages. 

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA
Onan Water Pump

Duane Siegfri
 

I have a salt water leak that looks like it originates from the Onan seawater pump. There are salt crystals on the pump and on the engine pan under the pump.  I'm going to remove it today for inspection and thought I would post this to see if it's a common problem.  The leak does not seem to originate from the joint between the pump and the engine.


Duane

Wanderer, SM#477
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Drawer/cupboard pulls

Ryan Meador
 

I'd be interested in a couple.  I also have a friend who works at a company that does 3D printing of stainless steel and titanium.  I will see if I can convince her to make these; they might be better than the originals.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 12:55 PM jvenegas@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Ken,


I would be in for 5 spares if you have them printed.

Thank you

Jose

Ipanema SM2K 278
Constitution Marina
Boston, MA
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Drawer/cupboard pulls

Jose Venegas
 

Ken,

I would be in for 5 spares if you have them printed.

Thank you

Jose

Ipanema SM2K 278
Constitution Marina
Boston, MA
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: ball valve on outlet of holding tank replacement

Ryan Meador
 

When I was doing holding tank hose work, I found a hairdryer (conveniently provided by Amel, I believe) pointed into the hose did a good job of making it flexible.  If you're trying to remove it, you could pump some hot water through it.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 12:25 AM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi. I've had no trouble unscrewing  the valve. The hardest part is the hose. Trying to bend it enough to go on. Need to find ways to heat it to soften it.. Recommend new hose while you are at it. I got on ok without removing the pan.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 06 July 2018 at 14:41 "pandmdegroot@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Mark Craig and Gary,
I've ordered the valve, it should be here next week.  My only remaining fear is that the valve is stuck, frozen onto the embedded nipple in the hull. I'll start with penetrating fluid this weekend. If the torque get's high and it doesn't budge, I'll be back on the forum.  Otherwise thanks! You all have provided a big boost of confidence, and the precise knowledge of what to expect.  

BTW.  I do struggle with the search function in Yahoo, both for photos and for topics.

 


 


 
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Drawer/cupboard pulls

John Clark
 

Very goid.  Yes I need the chrome handle part.


On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 7:11 AM Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I’m in contact with a 3-D printing company in Annapolis.  I’ll send one to them as soon as I get back to the boat in 2 weeks, and let you know what they say.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Jul 4, 2018, at 9:43 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Looks like a job for somebody with a 3D printer...  


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] How to flush Volvo D3-110i-C

ya_fohi
 

Hi all,

I thought I'd post a follow up on this for those who are interested. I pulled a 3:1 solution of BB through the engine and let it stand for 24 hours. Result: problem solved, engine temp is back to normal - 79 - 80°@ 2250rpm.

Thanks to all for the advice.

Cheers,
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Volvo temperature sensor

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi bill;

I had the same issue with the pressure switch in our Volvo. If you go through any Volvo dealer, even the main factory they will give you the part number for the non-isolated ground part number. Even if you give them the engine serial number.

The engines are shipped non-isolated from Volvo and they are modified by Volvo France for amel. I was surprised to find out that even though the mods are done by Volvo, the serial number references are not changed.

I found the supplier in France that was referred by AMEL and was able to ship it to Greece.

Let me know if you need help with locating the supplier and I will look through emails and get you the information.

Respectfully;


Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo 
AMEL 54#099


On Jul 5, 2018, at 1:11 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Does anyone have a part number/source for the two wire temperature sensor on the TMD22? Not the high temperature alarm switch, I need the sender for the temperature gauge?


The "standard" Volvo part was a single wire sensor, and even that one is apparently no longer available from Volvo..


Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Annapolis, MD, USA
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

Barry Connor
 

Hi again Alan,

Just an update on getting my AMFA bilge pump fixed.
I got the part from Amel, cost with VAT and shipping was US$270.
I have put it back together and now at least I am not hand pumping.
I am most certainly going to order the Viking unit you recommended. It will come from the US and I can have it delivered to my daughter in FL who will bring it to me on her next visit.
I will make sure that I get the extras with the Viking. The diaphragm service kit was going to be about another US$100 from Amel.
Thank’s again for your advise.
Best Regards 

Barry and Penny
“Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54.  #17
Trogir. Croatia 


On Jul 1, 2018, at 16:28, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Steve, Thanks I don't know why I could not have found it. Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Morrison steve_morrison@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Jul 1, 2018 9:06 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 
Here is the link to the 24v model on Amazon.


All the best, 
Steve Morrison
SM 380 TouRai
Hilton Head, SC

On Jul 1, 2018, at 7:29 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Alan, Were you able to buy that pump in a 24v . I looked at it on Amazon and only found it in 12v.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sat, Jun 30, 2018 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 
We replaced our bilge pump with a Johnson Power Viking 32 pump
Its max rated flow is 32 l/min.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Batteries for Amel 54

Barry Connor
 

Thank’s Bill,

I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me.
When I purchased the 13 batteries I was not told the difference and bought on price thinking that I was getting a fantastic deal. Looking now I see that the deep cycle batteries are more expensive and are the same lead acid batteries.
By luck I have solar panels which do a great job of topping up to nearly 100%. I have solar panels on my rear arch and on my custom made Bimini. The rear arch panels put out up to 14amp and the panels on the Bimini put out up to 9amp, both sets have very good 24v controllers. I also have a small 12v solar panel on the side of the rear arch for my starter battery with it’s own controller.
My 100amp charger from the generator running for about an hour brings all batteries up close to 90% then the solar panels take over.
It is now 3 years since I put the batteries in and I was told to expect them to last only 3 to 4 years I will keep an eye on them and report back how they do in the coming months.
Thank’s again for your explanation. 

Best Regards 

Barry and Penny
“Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54.  #17
Trogir. Croatia 


On Jul 4, 2018, at 17:36, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

When talking about batteries on boats there are so many variations it is hard to get any kind of agreement on anything. Even terminology can be a bit fuzzy.


When talking about batteries, if someone says "ordinary batteries" I would take that to mean standard flooded lead acid batteries. Not AGM, not GEL, etc.

If we are talking about "ordinary" flooded lead acid batteries, they tend to come in two flavors, "starting" and "deep cycle".  The difference is real but it is still a qualitative one, and the dividing line between them is not hard and fixed except in the mind of the marketing department.

In general, starting batteries are optimized to discharge very high amperages very quickly, and for very short periods of time, and then to be recharged quickly.  The lead plates are thinner, closer together, and sometimes more porous. They are designed to discharge a minimum of their capacity before being recharged.  Because of the thinner plates, some (but not all!) tend to be more susceptible to damage from vibration and impact than deep cycle batteries.

Deep cycle batteries are designed to deliver lower power loads for longer times.  The plates are much thicker and denser, and further apart. They tolerate deeper discharges much better.  

There can also be some chemistry differences between the two, but these are the highlights.

The way MOST people use their batteries is to discharge them much deeper than 80%.  If I had to guess, I would say most people typically discharge to 60% or 70%. 50% if they work the batteries really hard. Therefore--for most--people the recommendation to use deep cycle rated batteries is a no-brainer.  Starting batteries will die in this use pattern much earlier, quickly eliminating any initial cost benefit.

But... (there is ALWAYS a "but")
If you really discharge your batteries to no lower than 80% (ever) and then quickly recharge them ALL THE WAY back to 100% then "Starting" batteries might, for you, be a cost effective approach.  Even if not "best" they will not be a disaster.  I am sure you can find people who will give you an absolutely confident answer. They probably know a lot more than I do.

Deep cycle batteries might even have a disadvantage on your boat.  Once they get to 80% state of charge, their charge acceptance rate begins to fall, and it can take a VERY long time to bring them back to full.  Topping of "starting" batteries from 80% to 100% would happen much quicker.

Most recommendations for cruising boat batteries assume a much deeper discharge than you expose your batteries to. 

And there are LOTS of other considerations and alternative, but we can ignore those for now...

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Hi,
Olivier told me to get ordinary lead acid batteries and don’t let them drop below 80%. With running the generator for about 1 hour each morning and then having solar panels I find that I only sometimes run the generator again in the evening.
Are deep cycle regular batteries? I did see that gell batteries are listed as deep cycle.
Best Regards

Barry and Penny
“Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54.  #17
Trogir.  Croatia 
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