Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] lofrans windlass switch.

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

I purchase mine from Amel.
http://www.nikimat.com/spare_parts_windlass_lofran_tigre.html

I am sure you have seen the whole illustration of the overhaul.
http://www.nikimat.com/lofrans_tigres_windlass_overhaul.html
or simple:
http://www.nikimat.com/lofrans_tigres_windlass.html


--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 5/13/18, ericmeury@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] lofrans windlass switch.
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Sunday, May 13, 2018, 10:04 PM


 









I know that has been talked about
before and i read the threads...
but...has anyone found a source
here in the status for these...i know the vetus ones from
jamestown would work but they are pretty expensive for what
they are.  I found a Victory #RC46047-2 on the boat and can
confirm that THIS DOES NOT WORK as the length is not long
enough to put the backing nut on it.  
Also thinking about the wireless
windless remote but the "marine" versions might be
overkill since the control box for it would be inside the
boat and well protected....thoughts.


New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

amelyachtowners@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the amelyachtowners
group.

File : /Bow Thruster maintenance A54/_Bowthruster flex coupling replacement.pdf
Uploaded by : thomas_soraya <svgarulfo@...>
Description : thanks José Esteller & Dimitris Krasapoulos for FB input. Amel procedure doc on 54 bow thruster maintenance

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/files/Bow%20Thruster%20maintenance%20A54/_Bowthruster%20flex%20coupling%20replacement.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398

Regards,

thomas_soraya <svgarulfo@...>


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, I was going to buy a Autoprop from Alexandre , when Olivier informed me that the boats were modified to fit the Autoprop. I would be interested in the performance , eg. cruising speed /rpm ,max speed/rpm and appreciate your overall assessment of the Max prop on a SM.,particularly as you have the same engine I do.
Thanks
Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Mon, May 14, 2018 12:26 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

 
Pat,

I'll have to look deeper for the size, I know it is written down on the boat SOMEWHERE!  I do know the pitch setting is 20 degrees, left rotating.

My understanding is all of the early production runs of Super Maramus had MaxProps from the factory.  Autoprops do not fit the earlier SMs because there is not enough clearance for the blades to swing round.  I am sure Bill Rouse or Joel Potter can at least approximate the hull number when the keel was modified to allow the Autoprop room to swing.  I'll bet it is buried in the old posts here somewhere...

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

eric freedman
 

Bill,

When the packing is initially installed, I drive it down with a piece of PVC pipe and a small sledge hammer.

It is in very tight. As it swells with water it does leak and needs tightening. Over the last 16  years it has always been tight.

I was not commenting on scoring the nut but rounding the edges of the nut.

 

The correct wrench really comes in handy. One time we were hit by two big waves, the first one laid us over the second put the sails in the water. The water entered in the fresh air duct and came out of the vent under the stairs like a fire hydrant until we leveled off.  This put a lot of water down below. When we got the mess cleaned up, I went back to my cabin.

I saw the carpet was very wet. Initially I was puzzled. I then looked at the rudder post and it was really leaking badly.

 

It seems that the waves moved the packing on the rudder stock. I had a plumbers wrench and it was very difficult to even turn the nut. When I was done the nut was toast. I now have the proper wrench, spare packing from Amel, and a spare nut duct taped next to the rudder.

 

That’s my story of the plumbers wrench.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 12:17 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

 

 

Eric,

 

If it needs to be THAT tight, it really needs repacking.  

 

Going on tightening it really tight risks scoring the shaft, or breaking the plastic gland nut.  (I assume your gland nut is nylon, like mine?)  Scoring is not a really big risk with a slow rotation speed like a rudder... but not one I would take.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

greatketch@...
 

Pat,

I'll have to look deeper for the size, I know it is written down on the boat SOMEWHERE!  I do know the pitch setting is 20 degrees, left rotating.

My understanding is all of the early production runs of Super Maramus had MaxProps from the factory.  Autoprops do not fit the earlier SMs because there is not enough clearance for the blades to swing round.  I am sure Bill Rouse or Joel Potter can at least approximate the hull number when the keel was modified to allow the Autoprop room to swing.  I'll bet it is buried in the old posts here somewhere...

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

greatketch@...
 

Eric,

If it needs to be THAT tight, it really needs repacking.  

Going on tightening it really tight risks scoring the shaft, or breaking the plastic gland nut.  (I assume your gland nut is nylon, like mine?)  Scoring is not a really big risk with a slow rotation speed like a rudder... but not one I would take.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas


Re: lofrans windlass switch.

ericmeury@...
 

We have a santorin 1993...hull 86


Re: lofrans windlass switch.

ericmeury@...
 

yes sorry...should have been more clear...the ones mounted on the windless motor housing.


Re: lofrans windlass switch.

greatketch@...
 

Eric,

I am not sure which switches you are talking about... Are these the ones mounted on the motor hoursing of the windlass?

It helps if you post the model and hull number of your boat so we know where to start with a response...

Bill Kinney
SM 160, Harmonie
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

eric freedman
 

Bill,

I have found that the plumbers wrench slips when a lot of force is needed to tighten the nut. When the packing is new it is a no brainer, but when the packing gets compressed, it slips.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2018 11:38 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

 

 

You can buy one from Amel and that will work.  You can have one custom made, and that will work.  

 

Or you can buy what, in the USA, is called a "plumber's slip wrench"...  and that will work just as well.

 

 

I am generally not a fan of "adjustable" wrenches, but in this case these work fine.  You can buy the same wrench from a marine supply store as a "packing gland wrench" for twice the price too...

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

greatketch@...
 

You can buy one from Amel and that will work.  You can have one custom made, and that will work.  

Or you can buy what, in the USA, is called a "plumber's slip wrench"...  and that will work just as well.


I am generally not a fan of "adjustable" wrenches, but in this case these work fine.  You can buy the same wrench from a marine supply store as a "packing gland wrench" for twice the price too...

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas


lofrans windlass switch.

ericmeury@...
 

I know that has been talked about before and i read the threads...


but...has anyone found a source here in the status for these...i know the vetus ones from jamestown would work but they are pretty expensive for what they are.  I found a Victory #RC46047-2 on the boat and can confirm that THIS DOES NOT WORK as the length is not long enough to put the backing nut on it.  


Also thinking about the wireless windless remote but the "marine" versions might be overkill since the control box for it would be inside the boat and well protected....thoughts.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

karkauai
 

I still have my old AutoProp if anyone wants to buy it.  It’s just taking up space now, so you can have it for a good price.
 I think a good prop shop can modify it to fit your shaft.



Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

karkauai
 

I didn’t notice a significant difference between fuel consumption between the AutoProp and MaxProp.


Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

Patrick McAneny
 

Jose, I would have already bought an Autoprop and almost did, until I was informed that the shaft housing had not been modified as on later models to accept the Autoprop.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123



-----Original Message-----
From: jvenegas@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sun, May 13, 2018 12:24 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

 
I did some studying when I was buying a prop for my previous Beneteau 361.  I found that selecting the type of folding prop depended on the objective.  If it is to reduce drag while sailing the Flexofold or Max prop are pretty good doing that, and better than the Auto-prop which, at low wind conditions tends to take strange configurations causing extra drag. In the category the Max prop because its blades are flat has the lowest drag.
If the objective is to minimize fuel consumption during motoring, the blade of the Flexofold and the Autoprop are better shaped with an angle of attack that is reduced from the center outwards (twist).  This is important because the speed of the blade relative to the water increases with the radius of a rotating object.  The Autoprop blades have a constant angle of attack (flat blades) which is less efficient and can cause flow separation, turbulence, and possibly cavitation reducing thei r efficiency. 

Finally, if optimizing fuel consumption while motor-sailing is the objective, the  Autoprop is best as it adjusts its angle of attack as the wind increases and keeps the prop working efficiently.  Fix pitched props like the Flex or Max as the wind increases they end up spinning adding little power.   

In summary,  If cost is not the issue, I find that the Autoprop is Ideal for those of us that tend to motor-sail when the wind is low or comes from the nose.

My 5 cents.

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM2K 278
Boston


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

eric freedman
 

Thomas,

I would suggest you but the nut wrench from Amel, or have one made out of ¼ inch aluminum. There is a photo of mine in the photo section.

This will allow you to tighten the nut while at sea.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2018 3:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering hydraulic line

 

 

So, I noticed about a shot glass of water in the starboard lower compartment in the aft cabin (just forward of the linear drive). On SM2K #422, this is where sea water ends up when the rudder post stuffing box leaks a bit. As before, I turned the mylar nut one more facing (I guess 1/8 of a revolution) and it seems to have done the trick. Great.

 

However, in making this adjustment it was necessary to take off mattress, etc and completely open the storage area under the bed. I don't have that rudder nut tool I've seen on this site and my wrench only fits on the starboard side of the quadrant.  Not an area of the boat I visit regularly enough. No leaks, spots, anything......so far, so good. But I did notice that one of the hydraulic lines to the rudder quadrant has a small bulge/area of deformity about an inch from its termination and it's joint to the piston. Hmmm. This could have been there for 14 years, 14 months, or 14 minutes........I felt around and the hose seems OK; no blistering, tearing, etc. And it has not leaked to date as the area all around the hose seems to be completely dry.

 

If there were to be a leak from this spot, I suppose it's a pretty big problem.......I would then be dependent on the linear drive autopilot to work because the other autopilot uses the wheel (and thus the hydraulics). And I'm not anxious to ever use the emergency tiller.

 

Has anyone ever changed one of these hoses and what is the process ? It's not clear to me what size the hose/fitting is........nor is it clear how one bleeds it after a new hose is installed. Any ideas ?

 

Tom Kleman

SV L'ORIENT


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

greatketch@...
 

Jose,

I completely agree with the engineering theory of your analysis.  

Where we might differ is I simply do not believe that a on a boat like an SM the drag difference between an Autoprop(worst) and a Maxprop (best) would be at all noticeable to anybody cruising. Especially since people who would chose the Autoprop for the promise of its improved motoring performance are most likely to be motoring at the times when the difference would be largest.

All of these options have drag an order of magnitude lower than a fixed three blade prop, and that difference is most certainly easily noticeable!  But the differences in drag between the various folding/feathering options simply isn't significant given all the other variables involved.

In the real world, an Autoprop costs about $1000 more than a classic Maxprop of similar size. If I accept on faith the maximum fuel economy improvement that Autoprop claims in their marketing (30%), to generate a positive payback would require more miles of motorsailing  than I will likely do in the rest of my cruising life.  Other people do motor sail a lot more than I do and might come to a different conclusion.  

Bill Kinney
Sm160, Harmonie
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas



---In amelyachtowners@..., <jvenegas@...> wrote :

I did some studying when I was buying a prop for my previous Beneteau 361.  I found that selecting the type of folding prop depended on the objective.  If it is to reduce drag while sailing the Flexofold or Max prop are pretty good doing that, and better than the Auto-prop which, at low wind conditions tends to take strange configurations causing extra drag. In the category the Max prop because its blades are flat has the lowest drag.
If the objective is to minimize fuel consumption during motoring, the blade of the Flexofold and the Autoprop are better shaped with an angle of attack that is reduced from the center outwards (twist).  This is important because the speed of the blade relative to the water increases with the radius of a rotating object.  The Autoprop blades have a constant angle of attack (flat blades) which is less efficient and can cause flow separation, turbulence, and possibly cavitation reducing their efficiency. 

Finally, if optimizing fuel consumption while motor-sailing is the objective, the  Autoprop is best as it adjusts its angle of attack as the wind increases and keeps the prop working efficiently.  Fix pitched props like the Flex or Max as the wind increases they end up spinning adding little power.   

In summary,  If cost is not the issue, I find that the Autoprop is Ideal for those of us that tend to motor-sail when the wind is low or comes from the nose.

My 5 cents.

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM2K 278
Boston


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

Patrick McAneny
 

Kent, Didn't know you had bought the Max prop , glad you are happy with it, I think I am going with it. I may give you a call.
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sun, May 13, 2018 12:58 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

 
I’m very happy with my MaxProp. It’s not as persnickety as the AutoProp about growth.  I service it at every bottom paint job when I change the shaft seals and WOB.

They make a model that can be repitched in the water.  It’s a lot more expensive than the standard model that you have to haul out to repitch.  I had to do one quick haul to repitch when I reported with the Yanmar.



Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, Thanks for the follow up. I have been leaning more to the Max prop classic,they suggested the Easy , but its like a grand more and once the pitch is set than I don't see that its worth it. Since you have the Max prop, and I assume you also have the TMD22 78 hp , can you tell me what the size and pitch you have as well as your max rpm /speed ? Does it seem to have adequate power to punch through wind and waves and what rpm do you cruise at and at what speed? Sorry for all the questions , but I don't know of another SM with the Max prop .
Thanks Again,
Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sun, May 13, 2018 12:17 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Props and rpm

 


Yes, Amel overpitched the prop on the Volvo on purpose. Volvo suggested that one of several reasons that you might want to restrict the top speed of the engine was "reduced noise."  

 I don't know what Amel did on the Yanmars.  I am sure somebody here can answer that...

I wouldn't tell them "under 3000" but rather give them 3000 as the target.  Lower speeds will result in lower net power output from the engine, so you don't want to drop much.

I have owned two boats with a "Classic" 3 blade MaxProp (including Harmonie) and have been very happy with them.  They work, they are easy to care for, no bearings, seals, or other parts that we ar out.  Every haulout I take mine apart and clean and grease it.  I keep a zinc on the end, and all has been good.

I have no experience with Flexofold specifically.  My fleet experience with folding props is limited to Martec brand props on racing sailboats.  Not applicable to a SM installation, but I didn't particularly like them, both from a maintenance and a performance under power standpoint. The maintenance issue was wear of the pivot pins. They needed regular replacement.

In the real world, I very much doubt there is anything other than a theoretical performance difference between any of the major brands of folding or feathering props.  Certainly in sailing performance, and even in motoring the differences aren't really going to be significant. Many folding props struggle a bit with reverse, but I suspect that is more a case of the helmsman needing to rev the engine more than he was used to.

One nice thing about a Maxprop: Based the experiences of other SM owners who have them installed by Amel in the early production run, you know exactly which one to get and where to set the adjustable pitch without trial and error. No need to pay the premium for the model with in-water pitch adjustment.

And as a total aside.... Speaking of "premium," the new 5 blade Maxprop is a beautiful piece of machinework!  Priced like fine jewelry, but I imagine it is runs really, really smoothly.  Certainly not worth it for the two or three hundred hours a year I have the engine running, but it would certainly make me the star of the boatyard at haulout!

Bill Kinney
Sm#160, Harmonie
Rock Sound Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill, Thank you for your detailed reply. If I understand you correctly and correct me if I am wrong, Amel purposely over pitched my fixed prop to restrain it from attaining higher rpms and Volvo is fine with that. So, can owners with Yanmars obtain max rpms? I can't imagine I would want to hear my engine running higher than 3000 rpm , I feel as though I am over stressing it at that , I know it stresses me . So whatever prop I should buy , I should have them sell me a prop size and pitc h that keeps my TMD22a under 3000 rpm. I know you were involved in the charter business , do you have any experience with Flexofold or Max Prop ?
Thanks Again,
Pat
SM #123


Re: Steering hydraulic line

thomas.kleman <no_reply@...>
 

Just as you posted this i finished googling "rack and pinion steering" and realized the stupidity of my question. Obviously my double major in Poetry and Contemporary Pottery didn't prepare me well for boat ownership. :)