Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rivets for Head sail furling foil

karkauai
 

Thanks James, good info.

Kent
S/V Kristy
Kent,

   I did not finish my research since it sounded like the 1/4” rivets might work for me so I did not source the oversized rivets.  I found some 1/4” (.255 OD) all Aluminum (alloy 5062 for the rivet body, the mandrel however is 7075) structural rivets at Fastenal with a higher shear strength (1300 lbs. min versus about 460) than the more common ones found at Marine stores and have those on order.  I will do some testing before using them on the boat.   I have some concerns about the 7075 mandrel. https://www.fastenal.com/content/product_specifications/RV.BH.STR.ALUM.ALUM.12.pdf

 here is what I found about the removal tool and the oversize rivets:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNq7EEAvvlA  Video of using the Rivet removal tool

http://www.cherryaerospace.com/product/blindrivets Mention of 1/64” oversize rivets



Best of luck,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rivets for Head sail furling foil

eric freedman
 

Hi Gary,

How long was it between the time that Amel installed the bolts and you had to tighten them again?

I had mine done by them in November.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2018 11:36 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rivets for Head sail furling foil

 

 

When I had my foil and forestay repaired at Amel Martinique they replaced the rivets with threaded bolts.  I want to say 10mm  They did install backing plates to reinforce the contact points. Tef-Gel and one additional tightening since then, but it has not loosened due to flex and there i no corrosion to date.  

 

Gary W

s/v Adagio sm209

Mykonos

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rivets for Head sail furling foil

James Alton
 

Kent,

   I did not finish my research since it sounded like the 1/4” rivets might work for me so I did not source the oversized rivets.  I found some 1/4” (.255 OD) all Aluminum (alloy 5062 for the rivet body, the mandrel however is 7075) structural rivets at Fastenal with a higher shear strength (1300 lbs. min versus about 460) than the more common ones found at Marine stores and have those on order.  I will do some testing before using them on the boat.   I have some concerns about the 7075 mandrel. https://www.fastenal.com/content/product_specifications/RV.BH.STR.ALUM.ALUM.12.pdf

 here is what I found about the removal tool and the oversize rivets:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNq7EEAvvlA  Video of using the Rivet removal tool

http://www.cherryaerospace.com/product/blindrivets Mention of 1/64” oversize rivets



Best of luck,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220


On May 7, 2018, at 9:12 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Interesting, thanks.  Where did you find the oversized rivers and removal tool?


Kent
SM 243
KRISTY



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rivets for Head sail furling foil

karkauai
 

Interesting, thanks.  Where did you find the oversized rivers and removal tool?

Kent
SM 243
KRISTY


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rivets for Head sail furling foil

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

James,

Do you know where can I buy  9/32" diameter rivets?

VLADIMIR
SM 345 "LIFE IS GOOD"


On Mon, May 7, 2018, 11:31 James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Kent,
   Thanks for this information.  I hope that I can put things back together just as you did.   I would like to put back the aluminum rivets since they won't be a dissimilar metal and cannot unscrew with use.  
   I am finding out by the way that oversized aluminum rivets of 17/64 and 9/32" are available for aircraft repairs where a rivet has been removed and the hole has been enlarged.  There are special rivet removal tools that center on the head of the rivet to insure that the drilled hole is centered that I am considering.  I have not used one.  Drilling just deep enough to remove the head and tapping out the rest of the rivet might be something I will try to do to prevent enlarging the hole as well.  I have not had time to fully research whether the oversized aircraft rivets would be suitable for the Marine application with regards to alloy etc. But wanted to mention this in case it is helpful to someone with oversized holes.

Best,
James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On May 7, 2018 9:59 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I drilled out the old rivets using a 1/4inch bit, James.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243

On May 6, 2018, at 11:42 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


   Can you tell me if the 1/4” rivets fit the original holes in your furler, or did you need to drill them out some?   I will be changing my headstay this year so need to drill out the rivets and would like to bring the correct size with me to the boat.

Thanks,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 6, 2018, at 10:39 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I used1/4 inch rivets.  No problems with installation or in the 3 years since

Kent
SM 243
KRISTY





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Auto Prop Bearings

Mark Erdos
 

Hi Bill K,

 

Yes I did Google the catalog and noticed the same. I did not see an option without X/Q. Hence the question to the group to see if someone could verify from a package purchased from AB-Marine or Bruntons.

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:42 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Auto Prop Bearings

 

 

In the SKF catalog, the 32004 bearing is only listed with the X/Q suffix.  In the SKF numbering system a suffix like "X" or "Q" is not used as modifiers to a base part number, but rather give some information about the design standards and service loads for that model. 

 

"X" means the dimensions are ISO complient, and "Q" means "optimized contact geometry and surface finish"

 

There are no versions of this part number without the X/Q suffix in the current catalog.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Spanish Wells, Bahamas

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

Mark Erdos
 

Bill,

 

Well said. We have followed the guidelines posted by you and have never had an issue with any intrusion of water or leakage of oil. It is an easy process to follow. We have always purchased parts for this from Amel. As you say, to replace the drive would be costly. Why risk it.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, May 7, 2018 3:59 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

 

 

Jose, I really appreciate all of your participation in this Group. Thank you very much.

 

My following response is not intended to be an argument to you, but, it is intended to give those people in the Group who are "new-to-Amel" the reasons NOT to follow your advice. Remember there are a number of things that can go wrong with the installation of the wear bushing and seals. I am absolutely positive that changing the seal orientation from what Amel recommends was NOT the reason for your changing results.

 

Let's make this simple:

What is more important? Oil leaking out, or water leaking in? The answer to the question is obviously oil leaking out, and that is probably the reason Amel recommends a redundancy of seals (2 instead of 1 to hold oil in) to protect your 35,000 euro C-Drive from melt down because of no oil.

 

To not service a 35,000 euro C-Drive for 8 years (4 times the manufacturers recommended service interval) is not a RISK that I would take and is one that I do not recommend any of my clients taking. Afterall, you are going to haulout every 2 years anyway, why try to save a few hundred euro and risk 35,000 euro?

 

Let me share with you a summary of a page in my Amel School Book:

 

There are 7 very important things that, if not done precisely correct, will result in water seeping into the C Drive.

 

Some of the things that commonly cause water seepage are:

1.) Seals and/or wear bushings NOT purchased from Amel.

2.) The wall of the seal cavity NOT completely cleaned with emery cloth.

3.) The seals NOT oriented according to Amel specs.

4..) The seals NOT inserted the the correct depth.

5.) The seals NOT completely greased with waterproof grease

6.) The wear bushing O ring NOT greased and/or not the correct size

7.) The propeller shaft NOT completely cleaned where the wear bushing O ring meets the shaft.

 

Are you 100% positive that all of the above was performed correctly?

Amel has stuck with the same C Drive Bushing, seals and procedures for over 25 years and today recommends the same procedures in new 55s and 64s, which have the same wear bushing and seals. The only change Amel has recommended is the change to 80/90 gear oil. I know for a fact that Amel has experimented with several options and may be close to making a change to the wear bushing which may give it a longer life. But, I assume rather than busing wear with a harder bushing the seal will wear. This may be an insurmountable issue because with a very hard bushing good seals will eventually leak because they wear rather than the bushing.

 

Best,

 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  
http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 

 

 

 

 

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 11:47 AM, jvenegas@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I want to report my experience with the shaft seals and bushing.  

When I bought my SM2000 278,  It had its seal and bushing replaced and the seals oriented as recommended by AMEL.  In less than 2 seasons it was leaking water into the oil and I replaced it again in that spring finding substantial wear in the bushing, as you will see in the pix I have uploaded in face book.  After trying again the same scheme and less than two years later, as we were returning from Cartagena to Florida, just before reaching the windward passage between Cuba and Española, the transmission oil showed again the dreaded white color and I had to sail with no wind around the eastern tip of Cuba.   In Fort Lauderdale, I decided to experiment with the shaft seals direction based on my Mechanical Engineering background:  single lip seals are designed to prevent fluid from crossing the seal in only one direction; Fluid from the side facing the lip apply a pressure on the lip and it that prevents it from crossing to the other side.  Fluid coming from the other side can expand the lip and move across.  This motion of the fluid is helpful as it serves to lubricate the surface of contact between the seal and the shaft.

Based on this idea I realized that having the two inner seals facing in prevented oil leaving and to outer seal facing out prevented water coming in. As a result, none of the seals is lubricated and as the grease is worn out the outer seal will start leaking water in, which is not prevented to get into the transmission by the two inner seals.  The heavy wear and corrosion can be seen in the bushing surface of the outer seal.  So, even if the two inner seals are still viable they will not prevent water entry into the transmission.

My solution was to have the outer seal lip face into the transmission, preventing oil from leaving but allowing water to lubricate it.  Also, the two inner seals were oriented with the lip facing the shaft, preventing water from entering the transmission but allowing oil to move and lubricate them.

After 5 years of use, I noticed a small amount of oil loss ( < 2 cm drop in the tank) which I replaced with a heavier gear oil that completely stopped the oil loss. 

Last week I decided to replace the seals and bushings.  I noticed that the oil was perfectly clean and the two inner seals and corresponding bushing surfaces were intact but, as expected some wear was present in the outer bushing surface.  My guess is that with the heavier oil the outer lip began to work again, this time allowing a small amount of oil lubricating it.



Since after the outer lip function deteriorates the oil loss is very gradual and can be easily replaced with heavier oil, my recommendation is that the two inner seal lips should face the prop and the outer seal face the transmission.  Based on the wear pattern and total lack of wear in the inner seal I estimate that the seal/bushing system would have worked preventing water entrance into the transmission for another two or 3 years.  So my next experiment is to only replace the seals  8 years from now unless I begin to see a drop in oil level which is not fixed with heavier oil which I will report immediately.



Jose Venegas

Ipanema SM2k 278







 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

pjn.mccallin@...
 

I have to agree absolutely with Bill Rouse.
The drawings that were supplied by AMEL when I bought CARAMELLE new show quite clearly the two innermost lip seals with their stainless steel springs facing the oil, the third seal faces the propeller.

Interestingly enough AMEL also show an alternative of just two seals 45x65x12 rather than 45x65x8, this could perhaps prolong the life of the bearing as the wear groove will be in a different location. Just a thought.

Food for thought? Patrick #385.



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

 

Jose, I really appreciate all of your participation in this Group. Thank you very much.

My following response is not intended to be an argument to you, but, it is intended to give those people in the Group who are "new-to-Amel" the reasons NOT to follow your advice. Remember there are a number of things that can go wrong with the installation of the wear bushing and seals. I am absolutely positive that changing the seal orientation from what Amel recommends was NOT the reason for your changing results.

Let's make this simple:
What is more important? Oil leaking out, or water leaking in? The answer to the question is obviously oil leaking out, and that is probably the reason Amel recommends a redundancy of seals (2 instead of 1 to hold oil in) to protect your 35,000 euro C-Drive from melt down because of no oil.

To not service a 35,000 euro C-Drive for 8 years (4 times the manufacturers recommended service interval) is not a RISK that I would take and is one that I do not recommend any of my clients taking. Afterall, you are going to haulout every 2 years anyway, why try to save a few hundred euro and risk 35,000 euro?

Let me share with you a summary of a page in my Amel School Book:

There are 7 very important things that, if not done precisely correct, will result in water seeping into the C Drive.

Some of the things that commonly cause water seepage are:
1.) Seals and/or wear bushings NOT purchased from Amel.
2.) The wall of the seal cavity NOT completely cleaned with emery cloth.
3.) The seals NOT oriented according to Amel specs.
4.) The seals NOT inserted the the correct depth.
5.) The seals NOT completely greased with waterproof grease
6.) The wear bushing O ring NOT greased and/or not the correct size
7.) The propeller shaft NOT completely cleaned where the wear bushing O ring meets the shaft.

Are you 100% positive that all of the above was performed correctly?


Amel has stuck with the same C Drive Bushing, seals and procedures for over 25 years and today recommends the same procedures in new 55s and 64s, which have the same wear bushing and seals. The only change Amel has recommended is the change to 80/90 gear oil. I know for a fact that Amel has experimented with several options and may be close to making a change to the wear bushing which may give it a longer life. But, I assume rather than busing wear with a harder bushing the seal will wear. This may be an insurmountable issue because with a very hard bushing good seals will eventually leak because they wear rather than the bushing.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970





On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 11:47 AM, jvenegas@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I want to report my experience with the shaft seals and bushing.  

When I bought my SM2000 278,  It had its seal and bushing replaced and the seals oriented as recommended by AMEL.  In less than 2 seasons it was leaking water into the oil and I replaced it again in that spring finding substantial wear in the bushing, as you will see in the pix I have uploaded in face book.  After trying again the same scheme and less than two years later, as we were returning from Cartagena to Florida, just before reaching the windward passage between Cuba and Española, the transmission oil showed again the dreaded white color and I had to sail with no wind around the eastern tip of Cuba.   In Fort Lauderdale, I decided to experiment with the shaft seals direction based on my Mechanical Engineering background:  single lip seals are designed to prevent fluid from crossing the seal in only one direction; Fluid from the side facing the lip apply a pressure on the lip and it that prevents it from crossing to the other side.  Fluid coming from the other side can expand the lip and move across.  This motion of the fluid is helpful as it serves to lubricate the surface of contact between the seal and the shaft.
Based on this idea I realized that having the two inner seals facing in prevented oil leaving and to outer seal facing out prevented water coming in. As a result, none of the seals is lubricated and as the grease is worn out the outer seal will start leaking water in, which is not prevented to get into the transmission by the two inner seals.  The heavy wear and corrosion can be seen in the bushing surface of the outer seal.  So, even if the two inner seals are still viable they will not prevent water entry into the transmission.
My solution was to have the outer seal lip face into the transmission, preventing oil from leaving but allowing water to lubricate it.  Also, the two inner seals were oriented with the lip facing the shaft, preventing water from entering the transmission but allowing oil to move and lubricate them.
After 5 years of use, I noticed a small amount of oil loss ( < 2 cm drop in the tank) which I replaced with a heavier gear oil that completely stopped the oil loss. 
Last week I decided to replace the seals and bushings.  I noticed that the oil was perfectly clean and the two inner seals and corresponding bushing surfaces were intact but, as expected some wear was present in the outer bushing surface.  My guess is that with the heavier oil the outer lip began to work again, this time allowing a small amount of oil lubricating it.

Since after the outer lip function deteriorates the oil loss is very gradual and can be easily replaced with heavier oil, my recommendation is that the two inner seal lips should face the prop and the outer seal face the transmission.  Based on the wear pattern and total lack of wear in the inner seal I estimate that the seal/bushing system would have worked preventing water entrance into the transmission for another two or 3 years.  So my next experiment is to only replace the seals  8 years from now unless I begin to see a drop in oil level which is not fixed with heavier oil which I will report immediately.

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM2k 278





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Charging / Discharging issue

Ryan Meador
 

Hi Olaf,

How were you measuring the battery capacity?  Are you using a built-in battery monitor?  I wonder if there could be something wrong with that.  What did it show for the charge current when you were running the 100A charger?  What about the charge current when the solar and wind were going?  What was the current draw from your electronics?

Are you sure all of the batteries are connected?  Check the connections, and also check any battery terminal fuses that may be installed.

It would be worth a sanity check with a multimeter to verify the voltage at the battery bank is what the monitor claims (and you can also use this voltage with some tables you'll find online to estimate the state of charge, if there is no load/charger on the bank when you took the measurement).  You can also use your multimeter to measure the voltage across the shunt resistor used by the battery monitor; with the shunt's resistance (should be printed on it) and Ohm's law you can verify the current flow.

Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:59 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

You definitely have a problem, Olaf.  I have 90AHr batteries, and they last 10-12 hrs at anchor, an hour or so of charging with the Onan gets them back to 90+% of capacity.


I have lead acid batteries, and can’t comment on how to check AGMs.  With lead acid batteries, a cold cranking amps test and specific gravity of the electrolyte can help figure out what is wrong.

Do AGMs need equalizing???
Kent
SM243
Kristy

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
Panama cell: +507-61171896
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On May 6, 2018, at 8:46 PM, olaf_renos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hello AMELians,

 

On Friday I was first time out on anchorage with my SM2K and wondered about the discharging of the batteries. The discharging was around 20% within 6 hours! Only the fridge, refrigerator (on level 2) and the VHF were turned on. No more.

 

Furthermore, the wind generator was running all the time and the solar panel filled at that time as-well.

 

I my opinion this isn’t normal and I guess as minimum one battery isn’t working properly.

 

I also wondered about the charging of the Onan Generator. I run it with 100Amp charger and it could only fill up the batteries by ca. 2% in 1,5 hours!

 

What is the best way to find out what is wrong? Checking the batteries? How to check them if they don’t work properly?

 

My questions are now:

·        Is that the normal charging rate of the Onan generator by using the 100Amp charge controller with those kinds of batteries?

·        How is the normal charging rate of the Onan generator with those kind of battery setup?

·        Or do I have an issue with the Onan generator? When that seems to be how could I find out / what I have to check?

·        How could I find out or what is the best way to find out if the batteries are working properly or not?

 

Batteries

AGM batteries Vision EV-27-AM and the capacity of each one is 100 Ah = 600Ah.

 

Solar Panel 245W

 

Wind Generator Silent Wind 400

 

 

Any help is highly appreciated.

 

Fair Winds

 

Olaf Bauer

 

S/V Sayonara II, SM2K 392

currently in St. Anne, Martinique

 



SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush

Jose Venegas
 

I want to report my experience with the shaft seals and bushing.  
When I bought my SM2000 278,  It had its seal and bushing replaced and the seals oriented as recommended by AMEL.  In less than 2 seasons it was leaking water into the oil and I replaced it again in that spring finding substantial wear in the bushing, as you will see in the pix I have uploaded in face book.  After trying again the same scheme and less than two years later, as we were returning from Cartagena to Florida, just before reaching the windward passage between Cuba and Española, the transmission oil showed again the dreaded white color and I had to sail with no wind around the eastern tip of Cuba.   In Fort Lauderdale, I decided to experiment with the shaft seals direction based on my Mechanical Engineering background:  single lip seals are designed to prevent fluid from crossing the seal in only one direction; Fluid from the side facing the lip apply a pressure on the lip and it that prevents it from crossing to the other side.  Fluid coming from the other side can expand the lip and move across.  This motion of the fluid is helpful as it serves to lubricate the surface of contact between the seal and the shaft.
Based on this idea I realized that having the two inner seals facing in prevented oil leaving and to outer seal facing out prevented water coming in. As a result, none of the seals is lubricated and as the grease is worn out the outer seal will start leaking water in, which is not prevented to get into the transmission by the two inner seals.  The heavy wear and corrosion can be seen in the bushing surface of the outer seal.  So, even if the two inner seals are still viable they will not prevent water entry into the transmission.
My solution was to have the outer seal lip face into the transmission, preventing oil from leaving but allowing water to lubricate it.  Also, the two inner seals were oriented with the lip facing the shaft, preventing water from entering the transmission but allowing oil to move and lubricate them.
After 5 years of use, I noticed a small amount of oil loss ( < 2 cm drop in the tank) which I replaced with a heavier gear oil that completely stopped the oil loss. 
Last week I decided to replace the seals and bushings.  I noticed that the oil was perfectly clean and the two inner seals and corresponding bushing surfaces were intact but, as expected some wear was present in the outer bushing surface.  My guess is that with the heavier oil the outer lip began to work again, this time allowing a small amount of oil lubricating it.

Since after the outer lip function deteriorates the oil loss is very gradual and can be easily replaced with heavier oil, my recommendation is that the two inner seal lips should face the prop and the outer seal face the transmission.  Based on the wear pattern and total lack of wear in the inner seal I estimate that the seal/bushing system would have worked preventing water entrance into the transmission for another two or 3 years.  So my next experiment is to only replace the seals  8 years from now unless I begin to see a drop in oil level which is not fixed with heavier oil which I will report immediately.

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM2k 278




Re: Rivets for Head sail furling foil

Gary Wells
 

When I had my foil and forestay repaired at Amel Martinique they replaced the rivets with threaded bolts.  I want to say 10mm  They did install backing plates to reinforce the contact points. Tef-Gel and one additional tightening since then, but it has not loosened due to flex and there i no corrosion to date.  

Gary W
s/v Adagio sm209
Mykonos
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rivets for Head sail furling foil

James Alton
 

Kent,
   Thanks for this information.  I hope that I can put things back together just as you did.   I would like to put back the aluminum rivets since they won't be a dissimilar metal and cannot unscrew with use.  
   I am finding out by the way that oversized aluminum rivets of 17/64 and 9/32" are available for aircraft repairs where a rivet has been removed and the hole has been enlarged.  There are special rivet removal tools that center on the head of the rivet to insure that the drilled hole is centered that I am considering.  I have not used one.  Drilling just deep enough to remove the head and tapping out the rest of the rivet might be something I will try to do to prevent enlarging the hole as well.  I have not had time to fully research whether the oversized aircraft rivets would be suitable for the Marine application with regards to alloy etc. But wanted to mention this in case it is helpful to someone with oversized holes.

Best,
James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On May 7, 2018 9:59 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I drilled out the old rivets using a 1/4inch bit, James.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243

On May 6, 2018, at 11:42 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


   Can you tell me if the 1/4” rivets fit the original holes in your furler, or did you need to drill them out some?   I will be changing my headstay this year so need to drill out the rivets and would like to bring the correct size with me to the boat.

Thanks,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 6, 2018, at 10:39 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I used1/4 inch rivets.  No problems with installation or in the 3 years since

Kent
SM 243
KRISTY





WG: [Amel Yacht Owners] Oman Generator

Heinz Stutenbaeumer
 

 

 

Von: Heinz Stutenbäumer
Gesendet: Montag, 7. Mai 2018 10:31
An: 'Bill Rouse'
Betreff: AW: [Amel Yacht Owners] Oman Generator

 

Hallo

First Thanks to all.

Bill You are rigth

There is a breaker in the relay Blue it was not in so I've blocked it, and I've established

It should work this way for a while until I have a replacement.

I am sorry that I only answered today but I had no or bad Internett

Fair Winds

Heinz SM2000 292 Quetzal

 

 

Von: Bill Rouse
Gesendet: Montag, 30. April 2018 08:09
An: Stutenbaeumer.Berlin
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Oman Generator

 

The shore power/generator relay inside this box probably needs replacing. Do Not Delay because it can overheat and cause a fire.

An electrician could bypass the relay, but you would need to add a switch to have shore power and/or generator power:


Best,

 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  
http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 

 

 

 

 

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Stutenbaeumer.Berlin <heinz@...> wrote:

Thank you for your answers. 

 

I'm afraid I haven't had Internet access in the last few days. 

I am now in Curracao for a few days on the way to Panama 

The generator now needs 10 minutes before it produces 220 V. 

The fan in the engine compartment starts immediately when I switch on the generator. 

I only have 220 V on my sockets after 10 minutes. 

This is also the moment when the green light flashes continuously. 1 Min before it start to flicker first. 

 

I noticed that if I switch on a consumer too fast the 220 V current flow stops again and I have to wait again 2 minutes. 

 

I would be grateful for any suggestions. 

 

Fair Winds 

Heinz SM2000, 292,  Quetzal 

 


Am 23.04.2018 um 14:01 schrieb Bill Rouse <brouse@...>:

Please tell me if the 220VAC exhaust fan above the generator is working within about 5-10 seconds of starting the Onan. 

 

Also, please tell me if you are getting 220VAC at your outlets within about 5-10 seconds of starting the Onan. 

 


Am 23.04.2018 um 14:01 schrieb Bill Rouse <brouse@...>:

Heinz, 

 

Let me try to help you with this problem as though you are a client of Amel School (www.amelschool.com).

 

You wrote only about the green light not working and did not indicate that 220VAC was not working.

 

If 220VAC is not working at your outlets for a few minutes, it is likely that the generator/shore power relay is not working correctly.

 

Please tell me if the 220VAC exhaust fan above the generator is working within about 5-10 seconds of starting the Onan. 

 

Also, please tell me if you are getting 220VAC at your outlets within about 5-10 seconds of starting the Onan. 


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

 

On Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 14:04 Heinz Stutenbäumer heinz@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Bill

Thank you for your reply.

My green lamp works very well.

Even with a measuring device at the socket I cannot determine that 220V are produced in the first 5 minutes. Or is it the case that if the green lamp is not lit, the power is not transmitted.

This would mean it works if I remove the green lamp?

 

Fair winds Heinz

SM 2000 292 Quetzal

 

Von: amelyachtowners@... <amelyachtowners@...>
Gesendet: Montag, 23. April 2018 10:19
An: amelyachtowners@...
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Oman Generator

 

 

It is very common for this light to fail. In fact I believe it would be unusual to find an original green AC light working on a SM. The light has a life of about 6-8 years. 

 

Rather than replacing the bulb, you should add a digital Volt/Amp/Hertz meter. This meter will ensure shore power delivery and help you to NOT overload shore power, or the generator.


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

 

On Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 11:30 'Stutenbaeumer.Berlin' heinz@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello all

I have an onan generator on my SM 2000 that also works very well.
Since a few weeks I have the problem that the display for 220 V only lights up after the generator has been running for 5 to 10 minutes.
I have the feeling that this period of time is getting longer and longer.
Does anyone know this problem and does anyone know an answer?
I'd be grateful for any clues.

Fair Winds
Heinz Stutenbäumer,SM2000, 292, SV QUETZAL

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rivets for Head sail furling foil

karkauai
 

I drilled out the old rivets using a 1/4inch bit, James.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243

On May 6, 2018, at 11:42 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


   Can you tell me if the 1/4” rivets fit the original holes in your furler, or did you need to drill them out some?   I will be changing my headstay this year so need to drill out the rivets and would like to bring the correct size with me to the boat.

Thanks,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 6, 2018, at 10:39 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I used1/4 inch rivets.  No problems with installation or in the 3 years since

Kent
SM 243
KRISTY




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rivets for Head sail furling foil

James Alton
 

Vladimir,

   Thank you for the information.  The Mil-spec maximum hole size for a 1/4” rivet is 265 thousandths and 7mm is 275.5 thousandths.  I wonder if the hole size you are reporting has been increased by drilling out the rivet?  Or if this hole is being measured in the aluminum extrusion, perhaps the riveting process enlarged the hole some?  I am wondering if a 1/4” rivet could be preswelled the additional 10 thousandths to completely fill the hole?  I will run this one by an engineering friend to get his opinion.

   It would seem that a single pc. of aluminum could be machined to insert into the inside of the extrusion to provide something to tap into if needed.  The hole size to tap for an 8mm bolt is 269 thousandths so very close to the hole size that you have.  I am unclear if the Amel Owners that are replacing the original rivets with the 8mm bolts are simply tapping the existing holes in the two parts being joined or are inserting some sort of a backing?  Could someone enlighten me on whether a backing plate of some sort is needed to convert the original furler rivets to the 8mm bolts?  This change would be nice so that I would not have to drill out the rivets each time the furler needed to be removed.  

Best of luck,

James

SV  Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 7, 2018, at 7:17 AM, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


James,

The rivets were drilled out. The holes are 7 mm diameter. 1/4" diameter rivets are small for 7mm holls, but I can't  find rivets that are 7 mm in diameter.

Does anybody have a drawing of a threaded backing plate that can be inserted in the foil? Perhaps using screws and the backing plats are the best sollution. Does Amel sell the backing plats?

Vladimir
S/V "Life is Good"
SM 345


On Sun, May 6, 2018, 23:42 James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Kent,


   Can you tell me if the 1/4” rivets fit the original holes in your furler, or did you need to drill them out some?   I will be changing my headstay this year so need to drill out the rivets and would like to bring the correct size with me to the boat.

Thanks,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 6, 2018, at 10:39 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I used1/4 inch rivets.  No problems with installation or in the 3 years since

Kent
SM 243
KRISTY







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rivets for Head sail furling foil

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

James,

The rivets were drilled out. The holes are 7 mm diameter. 1/4" diameter rivets are small for 7mm holls, but I can't  find rivets that are 7 mm in diameter.

Does anybody have a drawing of a threaded backing plate that can be inserted in the foil? Perhaps using screws and the backing plats are the best sollution. Does Amel sell the backing plats?

Vladimir
S/V "Life is Good"
SM 345


On Sun, May 6, 2018, 23:42 James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Kent,


   Can you tell me if the 1/4” rivets fit the original holes in your furler, or did you need to drill them out some?   I will be changing my headstay this year so need to drill out the rivets and would like to bring the correct size with me to the boat.

Thanks,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 6, 2018, at 10:39 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I used1/4 inch rivets.  No problems with installation or in the 3 years since

Kent
SM 243
KRISTY




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rivets for Head sail furling foil

James Alton
 

Kent,

   Can you tell me if the 1/4” rivets fit the original holes in your furler, or did you need to drill them out some?   I will be changing my headstay this year so need to drill out the rivets and would like to bring the correct size with me to the boat.

Thanks,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 6, 2018, at 10:39 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I used1/4 inch rivets.  No problems with installation or in the 3 years since

Kent
SM 243
KRISTY




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Charging / Discharging issue

karkauai
 

You definitely have a problem, Olaf.  I have 90AHr batteries, and they last 10-12 hrs at anchor, an hour or so of charging with the Onan gets them back to 90+% of capacity.

I have lead acid batteries, and can’t comment on how to check AGMs.  With lead acid batteries, a cold cranking amps test and specific gravity of the electrolyte can help figure out what is wrong.

Do AGMs need equalizing???
Kent
SM243
Kristy

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
Panama cell: +507-61171896
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On May 6, 2018, at 8:46 PM, olaf_renos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello AMELians,

 

On Friday I was first time out on anchorage with my SM2K and wondered about the discharging of the batteries. The discharging was around 20% within 6 hours! Only the fridge, refrigerator (on level 2) and the VHF were turned on. No more.

 

Furthermore, the wind generator was running all the time and the solar panel filled at that time as-well.

 

I my opinion this isn’t normal and I guess as minimum one battery isn’t working properly.

 

I also wondered about the charging of the Onan Generator. I run it with 100Amp charger and it could only fill up the batteries by ca. 2% in 1,5 hours!

 

What is the best way to find out what is wrong? Checking the batteries? How to check them if they don’t work properly?

 

My questions are now:

·        Is that the normal charging rate of the Onan generator by using the 100Amp charge controller with those kinds of batteries?

·        How is the normal charging rate of the Onan generator with those kind of battery setup?

·        Or do I have an issue with the Onan generator? When that seems to be how could I find out / what I have to check?

·        How could I find out or what is the best way to find out if the batteries are working properly or not?

 

Batteries

AGM batteries Vision EV-27-AM and the capacity of each one is 100 Ah = 600Ah.

 

Solar Panel 245W

 

Wind Generator Silent Wind 400

 

 

Any help is highly appreciated.

 

Fair Winds

 

Olaf Bauer

 

S/V Sayonara II, SM2K 392

currently in St. Anne, Martinique

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rivets for Head sail furling foil

karkauai
 

I used1/4 inch rivets.  No problems with installation or in the 3 years since
Kent
SM 243
KRISTY