Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Deploying and retrieving an anchor with chain and rode

James Alton
 

Bill and Bill,

  Thanks for the tip about tying the line securing the anchor to the top of the windlass so that it can be seen from the helm, that is a really great idea that I will adopt.  Did you use anything special for the line?  I am just wondering if there could be a chafe issue if this safety line somehow became the only thing holding the anchor?    Bill Rouse has a lot of great ideas like this to share, I miss his regular input on this forum.  So thanks to both of you for this one.

  One more anchor story.  I had designed and built a heavy duty anchor chute to fit my customers stainless plow.  The day before departure on the Millennium Odyssey, the crew arrived and one of the crew placed the anchor on the anchor chute without anything securing it.  Seeing this I strongly suggested that he tie the anchor off but the crew member  insisted that was fine and when he stepped off the boat the anchor self launched into the marina basin.  No problem, the crew member said, we know right where it is, we will just get a diver.  Well the marina basin was originally dredged to be 20+ feet deep and had silted in over the years.  2 divers and half of a day later, no anchor.  Worse, the lost anchor was not a CQR and we could not find an exact replacement in time so he left with an anchor that did not fit the anchor chute properly.  

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 3, 2018, at 10:29 AM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Duane,


On Harmonie we do likewise, except the anchor safety line is permanently attached to the center cleat on one end, and the other end ties to the cleat on top of the windlass.  That way you can easily see—from the helm—that the anchor is secure.  Learned that one here from Bill Rouse...

The safety line also goes through the shank of the anchor, bypassing shackles, and any other bits that might fail.

Last thing on this, when underway, we turn power off to the windlass motor, and tighten the clutch.

I never saw anyone lose a boat from losing an anchor, but I saw someone lose his job after an anchor came undone and his response was...suboptimal.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Eleuthera, Bahamas

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Kent, 

Sorry to hear of your troubles.  In answer to your question of stowing the main anchor, I always tie a line from the anchor to the large center cleat to hold the anchor in place while underway in lieu of dismounting and stowing the anchor.  That way you have the security of knowing it is held fast, yet it is available if needed.

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477



Re: Deploying and retrieving an anchor with chain and rode

greatketch@...
 

Duane,

On Harmonie we do likewise, except the anchor safety line is permanently attached to the center cleat on one end, and the other end ties to the cleat on top of the windlass.  That way you can easily see—from the helm—that the anchor is secure.  Learned that one here from Bill Rouse...

The safety line also goes through the shank of the anchor, bypassing shackles, and any other bits that might fail.

Last thing on this, when underway, we turn power off to the windlass motor, and tighten the clutch.

I never saw anyone lose a boat from losing an anchor, but I saw someone lose his job after an anchor came undone and his response was...suboptimal.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Eleuthera, Bahamas

---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailor63109@...> wrote :

Kent, 

Sorry to hear of your troubles.  In answer to your question of stowing the main anchor, I always tie a line from the anchor to the large center cleat to hold the anchor in place while underway in lieu of dismounting and stowing the anchor.  That way you have the security of knowing it is held fast, yet it is available if needed.

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Deploying and retrieving an anchor with chain and rode

James Studdart
 

I’ve seen other boats that have a bolt go through the anchor and stainless “anchor roller holder” (I’m unsure what the correct name for that item is!) with a cotter pin to secure the bolt. I always quite liked the idea. Especially if it can be through an existing hole (I hate new holes).

For now we’ve done the same as mentioned, tie the anchor to the central cleat. Very important it’s the anchor itself. We’ve had friends loose their anchor (at sea) due to a faulty swivel. Thankfully no harm but the lost anchor. They had secured the chain with a chain hook to the cleat.

Cheers,
James
SeaBean SM344
Raiatea, FP


On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 15:43 Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks for your thoughts James, Craig, and Duane.  More to think about.  Duane, that's exactly what I do and did this time as well.  There must have been a little slack in the chain after banging a lot for hours.  That put all the weight and shock loads on the tie down line, which eventually failed.  The windlass clutch did its job protecting the windlass, but allowed all the chain to go out.  It all happened at night and the ride was so uncomfortable and loud that I wasn't aware I had lost it.

I may consider a cable preventer instead of using line if I can't figure out a good way to get the anchor aboard and stow it.

I've put 25-30,000 miles under the keel using the method you describe without issues, but it's a costly and potentially dangerous situation that I am not willing to risk again.
Kent
KRISTY
SM243

On May 2, 2018, at 9:00 PM, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent, 


Sorry to hear of your troubles.  In answer to your question of stowing the main anchor, I always tie a line from the anchor to the large center cleat to hold the anchor in place while underway in lieu of dismounting and stowing the anchor.  That way you have the security of knowing it is held fast, yet it is available if needed.

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Deploying and retrieving an anchor with chain and rode

karkauai
 

Thanks for your thoughts James, Craig, and Duane.  More to think about.  Duane, that's exactly what I do and did this time as well.  There must have been a little slack in the chain after banging a lot for hours.  That put all the weight and shock loads on the tie down line, which eventually failed.  The windlass clutch did its job protecting the windlass, but allowed all the chain to go out.  It all happened at night and the ride was so uncomfortable and loud that I wasn't aware I had lost it.

I may consider a cable preventer instead of using line if I can't figure out a good way to get the anchor aboard and stow it.

I've put 25-30,000 miles under the keel using the method you describe without issues, but it's a costly and potentially dangerous situation that I am not willing to risk again.
Kent
KRISTY
SM243

On May 2, 2018, at 9:00 PM, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent, 


Sorry to hear of your troubles.  In answer to your question of stowing the main anchor, I always tie a line from the anchor to the large center cleat to hold the anchor in place while underway in lieu of dismounting and stowing the anchor.  That way you have the security of knowing it is held fast, yet it is available if needed.

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: Deploying and retrieving an anchor with chain and rode

Duane Siegfri
 

Kent, 

Sorry to hear of your troubles.  In answer to your question of stowing the main anchor, I always tie a line from the anchor to the large center cleat to hold the anchor in place while underway in lieu of dismounting and stowing the anchor.  That way you have the security of knowing it is held fast, yet it is available if needed.

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: Deploying and retrieving an anchor with chain and rode

Craig Briggs
 

Hey Kent,
If you're anchored where you were in St Michaels's last year, why not just do the 50 feet of chain to your BIG Fortress and run that to your windlass as normal. Scoot in a little closer and you'll only be in 8-10 feet water at low tide. Plenty of scope for the normally calm conditions there. Take your time to replace your original chain and anchor. 

A Mantus might be a good option for your new anchor as they are modern design and priced nicely. BTW, if you buy chain and anchor from West Marine, which is normally over-priced, they will meet any lower price - just print out a web ad for the lower price and take it to them and they'll give you that price.

Cheers,
Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris Ft Pierce, FL USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <karkauai@...> wrote :

Hi all,
So I lost my anchor and chain in short steep seas. Lucky not to have a hole in the boat or a prop fouled in the chain.

I'm tied up at the dock now, but will set my spare (a big Fortress) tomorrow on 50 ft of chain and 75-100ft of 1" three-strand nylon rode. I'll be in 10-15 ft of water on the Miles River near St Michaels, MD. As I've never had occasion to do this with the big tackle we use on these boats, I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this without dinging up the deck or lifeline. And how to limit the strain on my previously operated-on back.

I have the anchor tied at the rail with a short loop of chain going to the port side bow roller. I've flaked the chain and rode out on the deck and cleated the rode to the big bow cleat. I've protected the lifeline SS tubing with towels wrapped around and zip-tied on to keep the loop of chain from dragging over it on dropping the anchor over.

My plan is to drop the anchor over the side, then pay out the chain and rode. The chain will drag across the deck, that doesn't seem like a good solution.

How do you guys and gals do this?

Retrieval:
My plan is to use the rode gypsy on the windlass to pull it in up to the chain...then what? I thought of hooking the chain snubber on and raising it with a halyard, but that seems extremely awkward. The anchor won't fit on the bow roller, so will have to be brought aboard.

Again...HELP...How do you do it?

To make it more complicated, I'm single-handing. I think I'll find someone to help with at least the retrieval.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

As an aside, does anyone stow their primary anchor when going to sea? If so, where? And I guess retrieving the primary anchor to stow it will be much the same as what I'll be doing with the Fortress, but much heavier.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.
Kent
KRISTY
SM243


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Deploying and retrieving an anchor with chain and rode

James Alton
 

Kent,

   Anchor chain is nice in that it doesn’t chafe on sharp things like rocks but it’s your anchor and a proper scope that is required to give you good holding.  With your back situation, I would consider mostly or completely eliminating the chain and just insure that you have a minimum of a 7:1 scope out  (remember to account the freeboard) .  The Fortress and Danforth type anchors are not to reliable at resetting if pulled out when the wind or current changes the rode angle too much.   When using these types of anchors I normally set a second anchor  (a smaller lunch hook)…which I know does complicate things.   With the right line size, you may be able to get some help from your anchor windlass in hauling up the anchor by running it in the center chain groove and tailing.  Some gypsys are designed to handle chain and line in this manner and with the right size line it grips pretty well despite only laying across the top of the gypsy.  .

  On my previous boat there was no windlass or provision to stow and anchor forward so I used high tensile Danforth anchors with line only rodes for almost 20 years up and down the East Coast, Maine and Nova Scotia without ever dragging or having a chafe problem but obviously there is a risk that your line could find something sharp.  
  
   I am glad to hear that your boat was not damaged, best of luck and perhaps you will get some other ideas that will help.

Best,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 2, 2018, at 6:57 PM, karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi all,
So I lost my anchor and chain in short steep seas. Lucky not to have a hole in the boat or a prop fouled in the chain.

I'm tied up at the dock now, but will set my spare (a big Fortress) tomorrow on 50 ft of chain and 75-100ft of 1" three-strand nylon rode. I'll be in 10-15 ft of water on the Miles River near St Michaels, MD. As I've never had occasion to do this with the big tackle we use on these boats, I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this without dinging up the deck or lifeline. And how to limit the strain on my previously operated-on back.

I have the anchor tied at the rail with a short loop of chain going to the port side bow roller. I've flaked the chain and rode out on the deck and cleated the rode to the big bow cleat. I've protected the lifeline SS tubing with towels wrapped around and zip-tied on to keep the loop of chain from dragging over it on dropping the anchor over.

My plan is to drop the anchor over the side, then pay out the chain and rode. The chain will drag across the deck, that doesn't seem like a good solution.

How do you guys and gals do this?

Retrieval:
My plan is to use the rode gypsy on the windlass to pull it in up to the chain...then what? I thought of hooking the chain snubber on and raising it with a halyard, but that seems extremely awkward. The anchor won't fit on the bow roller, so will have to be brought aboard.

Again...HELP...How do you do it?

To make it more complicated, I'm single-handing. I think I'll find someone to help with at least the retrieval.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

As an aside, does anyone stow their primary anchor when going to sea? If so, where? And I guess retrieving the primary anchor to stow it will be much the same as what I'll be doing with the Fortress, but much heavier.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.
Kent
KRISTY
SM243



Deploying and retrieving an anchor with chain and rode

karkauai
 

Hi all,
So I lost my anchor and chain in short steep seas. Lucky not to have a hole in the boat or a prop fouled in the chain.

I'm tied up at the dock now, but will set my spare (a big Fortress) tomorrow on 50 ft of chain and 75-100ft of 1" three-strand nylon rode. I'll be in 10-15 ft of water on the Miles River near St Michaels, MD. As I've never had occasion to do this with the big tackle we use on these boats, I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this without dinging up the deck or lifeline. And how to limit the strain on my previously operated-on back.

I have the anchor tied at the rail with a short loop of chain going to the port side bow roller. I've flaked the chain and rode out on the deck and cleated the rode to the big bow cleat. I've protected the lifeline SS tubing with towels wrapped around and zip-tied on to keep the loop of chain from dragging over it on dropping the anchor over.

My plan is to drop the anchor over the side, then pay out the chain and rode. The chain will drag across the deck, that doesn't seem like a good solution.

How do you guys and gals do this?

Retrieval:
My plan is to use the rode gypsy on the windlass to pull it in up to the chain...then what? I thought of hooking the chain snubber on and raising it with a halyard, but that seems extremely awkward. The anchor won't fit on the bow roller, so will have to be brought aboard.

Again...HELP...How do you do it?

To make it more complicated, I'm single-handing. I think I'll find someone to help with at least the retrieval.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

As an aside, does anyone stow their primary anchor when going to sea? If so, where? And I guess retrieving the primary anchor to stow it will be much the same as what I'll be doing with the Fortress, but much heavier.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.
Kent
KRISTY
SM243


Re: SM2000 353 Indecent

Duane Siegfri
 

Stephanie,

A bit off-topic, but where did you prefer north of the Blue Heron Bridge?  Is there a dinghy dock nearby?  Or are you referring to a marina?

I've never gone north of the BH Bridge, but it seems you have the clearance at low tide, so it might be worth investigating.  The City of WPB has the City Docks off the downtown area closed for Sunfest, and I'm trying to finish up the new electronics on my boat, which is made a bit tougher without someplace to land the dinghy for parts!

Good luck on your sale,
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Opacmare 1849 gangway shaking at end of "up/down" motion

cpp_berkeley <no_reply@...>
 

Hi all,


The "engineer" here at the boatyard has been working on my Amel 54 passarrelle for about 2.5 months now. The model is Opacmare 1849-260-0-24. The tasklist involved replacing the hydraulic hoses and cleaning up rust, per Olivier's survey recommendations. 


Everything is installed and the "extend/retract" and "rotate left and right" motions work fine. The "up and down" motion worked fine until some last minute tinkering. This was after I said, "It's good enough! Let's stop messing with it as it's taken too long!!" :) He then messed with some hoses and this problem developed.


On the up and down motion, after I stop the motion, there's a strong shaking on the platform. This happens on up but is more violent on down. Oddly, if it goes all the way up or all the way down, it doesn't have any issues. 


We have run it 20+ motions to hopefully get the air out and waited almost a week because the oil reservoir looked a bit foamy, but the shaking has not improved. 


Any ideas? The manual mentions a flow regulation valve that "slows the downward return of the main lifting piston" but I'm not sure if that's the cause of the problem or even user adjustable?

I posted a youtube video of the problem at: https://youtu.be/UOucCCccCxk


-Scott

A54 #69

Tengah

 


SM2000 353 Indecent

Stephanie DiBelardino <stephiedib@...>
 

Hi All!

We will be putting Indecent on the market in about one month. We are having her pulled on Friday to replace the lower unit of the bow thruster, then we will begin to off-load our personal things, and have her detailed inside and out. She will be ready to go on the market probably very late May.

We have bought a 2013 Sabre 42 Sedan Express that will allow us to get back and forth from Grand Bahama to Palm Beach within 3-4 hours. Indecent took 12 hours, then we had to wait for low tide to get under the Singer Island Fixed Bridge so that we could get to the area we prefer to be in.

Fair Winds!
Stephanie DiBelardino
SM2000 353 Indecent
Palm Beach Gardens, FL.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Marina di Ragusa

Barry Connor
 

Yes, Marina di Ragusa is very good wintering place, about 400 yachts with everyone creating a community with activities with Tues and Fri happy hours at the local bar. M dock is not a problem. Don't go on the wall as you get sprayed a lot.

On Tuesday, May 1, 2018, 5:32:44 AM EDT, Rudolf Waldispuehl Rudolf@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

Hi Barry and Penny

I have seen you are in Marina di Ragusa (MdR). I just had contact with the marina to request bearthing for next Winter. 

I got a quote for €2500  VAT incl. from 01/10/18 to 30/04/19. 

Can you give me some comments hints/recommendations about the Marina.
Would you go there again and did you feel it’s a save place. They only gave me Pontoon M as possible place, which I feel it is a bit out (close to sea).

BTW. Did you made some Electronic Work or new Antifouling in MdR? Are there good possibilities for boat work close by?

Best regards
Ruedi

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "Barry Connor connor_barry@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Freitag, 27. April 2018 um 11:24
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Raymarine AIS not working on Furuno Chart Plotter?

 

Hi Ruedi,


I have just completed the update from the originally fitted Furuno NMEA-0183 to NMEA-2000.
I did this in 2 stages. 
I stayed with mostly Furuno as I discovered that trying to mix created problems that bits were not talking to each other.
The AIS was supplied from Digital Yacht on recommendation from Furuno with the 12” Furuno EZ Touch display at the helm. The original depth and wind was converted from 0183 to 2000 by using an Actisense converter as the Furuno converter would not talk to the B&G Hydra. 2 new Furuno displays in place of the B&G displays on the dash panel.
I stayed was using the old Furuno Chart Plotter display for radar only.
I just completed the change over to the new Furuno digital radar and new depth and wind for NMEA 2000.
I now have complete digital and full NMEA-2000.
I took out all of the originally fitted B&G and Furuno and sold it to the owner of an ex charter boat, who did not want to over capitalize his boat investment. He took all of the wiring and cabling. I sold the Actisense converter on Ebay for £45.
I had a little bit of trial and error, Furuno and their seller (Cactus) were very helpful with advise on connecting and exchanging bits. B&G also helped with phone advise during the change over. 
What I found out was that you must be carful when mixing manufacturers bits.
I did all the change over myself with phone help from tech people at Furuno, B&G, Digital Yacht and Cactus.
I also installed a Digital Yacht PC with TV monitor at the chart table connected to the EZ Touch via HDMI cable.
I never felt that I was a bother to any of these suppliers even though I was phoning them a lot.
I did speak to Raymarine before I started this project but decided to stay with Furuno and who they recommended. Raymarine did not instill confidence in me to go with them, Furuno did.
Hope this is of some help and good luck with you upgrade..
I am very happy with my new system.

Best Regards

Barry and Penny
“Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Soon to depart:’
 Marina di Ragusa.  Sicily


On Apr 25, 2018, at 21:38, Rudolf@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello everyone in the Group


I have a Furuno AIS Receiver (passive) and I'd like to upgrade to a Transceiver (active). Now since I plan to go to Raymarine Electronics sometimes in the Future (Radar/Chartplotter etc.), I asked Reymarine for such a new active AIS box (I would have one part Raymarine already by then).

 

Now the Raymarine engineer came on board and said that the Raymarine AIS will not be compatible with my Furuno Chart plotter even if both are talking NMEA2000. I was surprised about this comment and I'm confused now weather this guy will only sell other new Raymarine components or is it real!?


When I insisted he said; YES that Raymarine AIS also talks NMEA2000 but still then it will not work correctly. His English was not perfect like mine, but I understood that this is Reymarine politics (they just don't want to have this configuration running). I have Furuno NAVnet vx2 on my AMEL-54 (2007).


Who else in the group experienced the same or does know if this is correct or wrong statement from Reymarine. If this is product politics I'm rather not going to Reymarine in the future.... ;-) 


Thanks for advice

Ruedi 

SY WASABI A54 #55




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Slowing down in increasing winds

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi David,

I concur with the advice to listen to those who have been there. How and when to slow down. To windward or wind forward of the beam, when you start banging. Not worth it. Hard on the boat. Conditions will change. How to slow down. Reduce sail until the banging stops, even if that is 2 or 3 knots. The SM will cheerfully go to windward leaping from wave to wave at over 8 knots. No sense in that. BANG BANG. The SM will happily sail with a tiny amount of head sail, or any combination of headsail, main and mizzen. If the wind is forward of the beam you need some headsail. Add whatever you like to that. Dont over power. Ie sail heavily laid over. No point, you go slower and it just aint comfortable. Down wind I have found the SM supremely capable. We got our twin head-sails jammed once and could only reef 1/4. Wind got up to over 40 knots. We were going across the top of South America. BIG seas. With only me and Yvonne on board there was no way I was letting anyone forward to try and sort it. We were stuck with it for 24 hours before the wind dropped briefly and we could get up there to sort it. Boat tracked perfectly under auto helm. Peak speed with Yvonne on watch alone at 2 am was 16 knots .I've never gone that fast and I've never forgiven her.  I eased the sheets to let the sails spill forward and Ocean Pearl just trucked. Other than dramas like that we have sailed down wind in very strong air. Get rid of the mizzen first, reduce main and headsail progressively. If the wind is rising, get all the main furled early before it gets too hard to put it away. Any sail aft of the keel pushes the boat sideways. The headsail is always easy to furl if you need to and the boat sails well. Dragging stuff to slow down. Never done it and I dont like the thought of slowing the boat and having waves climbing aboard from the stern. The stern is not designed for that and waves breaking into the cockpit from astern does not attract me. We carry a sea anchor but have never used it but would stream it from the bow.When would we deploy it ? . If the boat was not controllable, and we have never got to that point.   I know Kimberlite has used the JSD to good effect but it does not appeal to me. Kent, you were lucky you lost the anchor and chain and it didn't just hang there fully deployed. That is a classic way many yachts have been lost.

Reaching, Reduce sail to achieve comfortable angle of heal but I confess to having to go to the galley to hold Yvonne in place in boisterous reaching conditions. ( I do like going fast) A  lurch when serving dinner..........oops.Forget plates, use deep bowls and spoons. How fast is a SM. Off shore we often average 200 miles/24 hours if the wind is 20 knots or more.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 02 May 2018 at 08:50 "David Vogel dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,

The greatest winds we have experienced on PERIGEE have been 35 knots sustained, gusting 42, estimated 6 meter seas, all on the beam.  Even with fully reefed sails, it was a strong ride, but not uncomfortable.  It never got to the stage of thinking to go to bare poles.

But it did raise the question about how, and when, to slow down.

We carry some old 5/8ths hauling line with about 3 meters of chain, plus an old tyre, to add drag if needed.  And a Jordan Series Drogue for if things get really tough.

I have heard suggestions from other cruisers to run out line with fenders attached every 10 or so meters, with chain or an anchor at the end.  For example, at 35kts, drop the chain/anchor overboard and run out 10-15 meters of line, then attach a fender, and then run out  another 10-15 metes of line.  At 40knots, add another fender, and run out some more line.  At 45knots, heave-to.  I do not wish to be cavalier, but these wind-speeds seem a little low for a Super Maramu as, based on my experience, our boats can handle these conditions with relish.

What are your reefing points, heavy weather plans or storm tactics?  I'd be interested to hear from those with experience.  And also, at what wind-speed or sea-state would you call for the JSD, or other big-drag-device?

Thanks in anticipation of your responses.

David
Perigee, SM#396
SXM

 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Slowing down in increasing winds

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

testing

On 02 May 2018 at 08:50 "David Vogel dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,

The greatest winds we have experienced on PERIGEE have been 35 knots sustained, gusting 42, estimated 6 meter seas, all on the beam.  Even with fully reefed sails, it was a strong ride, but not uncomfortable.  It never got to the stage of thinking to go to bare poles.

But it did raise the question about how, and when, to slow down.

We carry some old 5/8ths hauling line with about 3 meters of chain, plus an old tyre, to add drag if needed.  And a Jordan Series Drogue for if things get really tough.

I have heard suggestions from other cruisers to run out line with fenders attached every 10 or so meters, with chain or an anchor at the end.  For example, at 35kts, drop the chain/anchor overboard and run out 10-15 meters of line, then attach a fender, and then run out  another 10-15 metes of line.  At 40knots, add another fender, and run out some more line.  At 45knots, heave-to.  I do not wish to be cavalier, but these wind-speeds seem a little low for a Super Maramu as, based on my experience, our boats can handle these conditions with relish.

What are your reefing points, heavy weather plans or storm tactics?  I'd be interested to hear from those with experience.  And also, at what wind-speed or sea-state would you call for the JSD, or other big-drag-device?

Thanks in anticipation of your responses.

David
Perigee, SM#396
SXM

 


 


Re: Upwind with staysail

Dave_Benjamin
 

I like to look at Vmg and not worry about pointing angle as much as some people do. I've seen some people focus so much on pointing that their boat is going much slower than it would if they bore off 3-6 degrees. The keel on these Amels is a limiting factor and will hydro-dynamically stall while a sail sheeted close to centerline will still be powered. The result of course is the boat is going sideways. 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Slowing down in increasing winds

karkauai
 

Interesting that you should post this now, David. I just came up from Wilmington North Carolina to Saint Michaels Maryland on the Chesapeake, and encountered unanticipated winds of 25 to 30 kts sustained and 35+ gusts on a regular basis. PredictWind had forecast 10-15 kts by three models, and 15-20 kts on the other model. The wind was right on the nose and forced us to fall off and tack. The waves were steep and short, but only 6 to 8 feet high. The wave period Was about half the length of the boat, so as we came down off of one wave we went directly into the face of another wave. In spite of falling off to nearly a beam reach, we banged quite a bit. The boat handled it fine, much better than my crew. Unfortunately the tiedown that I had on the anchor parted and the 40 kg ROCNA and 300 feet of 3/8 inch chain went over the bow. All were lost at night, without us even knowing it was gone. There was only minor superficial damage to the gelcoat on the bow, the windlass seems to be fine.

I have encountered 35 to 40 not winds in the past, but never short steep seas like this. It was a rough and uncomfortable ride. Next time I will heave to and wait it out. For long ocean passages, I will stow the anchor.

By contrast, I came up the Gulf of Mexico last Spring from Panama to Key West with 25-30 kt winds on the stern. With only a little sail out we averaged over 9 kts, not rarely hitting 12kts or higher. The ride was comfortable and exhilarating.'

In answer to your question, I think it depends on the sea state, state of the crew, and your own comfort level.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On May 1, 2018, at 4:50 PM, David Vogel dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

com


Re: Slowing down in increasing winds

greatketch@...
 

David,

When it comes to heavy weather tactics, my first rule is to take no advice from anyone who hasn't been there and done that, preferably on a boat very similar to mine.

I think you you'll get some awesome advice here from people who have spent time in weather way, way rougher than I ever want to...

As the wind picks up, I just reef deeper and deeper.  Maybe it comes from sailing in San Francisco for so long, but strong winds never really worried me.  It was always just the size of the waves that drove my concerns.  35 knots? No problem... just keep sailing!

Eventually, waves get so big that making progress in any direction except downwind gets dangerous.  Once you start to lose control of the the boat as it surfs down big waves, or the waves start to break in ways that are dangerous, it is time to go straight to the series drogue.  There are people here who have been there, done that, and know of what they speak.

My opinion:  Skip all the old fashioned ideas of dragging warps with fenders, anchors, tires, etc, etc.  Those are tactics from 75 years ago, suited for boats of that vintage.  When I have talked to people who have actually tried such things in modern boats in conditions that were really serious, they were always way less than impressed with the result.

My experience runs up to 45 knots for days crossing the North Pacific on a boat significantly smaller than a SM, although similar is general design.  Deeply reefed jib, and reefed mizzen, furled main, and the boat did fine.  One you get used to it, it is a wild ride :)  I always reefed based on boat speed.  Keeping the boat under control was the key.

So many of the storm tactics you read about are based on the premise of having a large crew who can hand steer for hours and hours.  Having a way of "stopping" when the boat gets out of control, like a series drogue, is the key to cruising safety in big weather.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Governors Harbour, Eleuthera, Bahamas


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Slowing down in increasing winds

Ian Park
 

David
An interesting question to which I can’t give answers. I’ve sailed our Santorin in f7 to f9, but never upwind. Even with the smaller Santorin she never gets moving properly until f5. My previous boat (Jeaneau 37 would have hade reefs in). In Caribbean inter island crossings this year we have had some very gusty winds. After being hit by a squall of 45 knots the boat (with all sails set!) lay over until the water was just over the side decks, and despite the efforts of the engaged autopilot turned nicely upwind and recovered herself.
I then took Linda’s “I warned you!” Advice and dumped the mainsail.

The point of all this ramble is we don’t have a production line boat. We also are blessed with a ketch. I would welcome others experience on this one. I do feel the lower overall sail height of the ketch, the ability to lose the main and stay in balance and then to start to reef the ‘jib and jigger’ added to the immensely strong Amel construction means our solutions won’t match the majority of cruising boats.

More comments please - we’re setting off back across the Atlantic to UK in a few weeks time so I’m watching this one closely,

Thanks David,

Ian  ’Ocean Hobo’ SN96


On 1 May 2018, at 16:50, David Vogel dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,

The greatest winds we have experienced on PERIGEE have been 35 knots sustained, gusting 42, estimated 6 meter seas, all on the beam.  Even with fully reefed sails, it was a strong ride, but not uncomfortable.  It never got to the stage of thinking to go to bare poles.

But it did raise the question about how, and when, to slow down.

We carry some old 5/8ths hauling line with about 3 meters of chain, plus an old tyre, to add drag if needed.  And a Jordan Series Drogue for if things get really tough.

I have heard suggestions from other cruisers to run out line with fenders attached every 10 or so meters, with chain or an anchor at the end.  For example, at 35kts, drop the chain/anchor overboard and run out 10-15 meters of line, then attach a fender, and then run out  another 10-15 metes of line.  At 40knots, add another fender, and run out some more line.  At 45knots, heave-to.  I do not wish to be cavalier, but these wind-speeds seem a little low for a Super Maramu as, based on my experience, our boats can handle these conditions with relish.

What are your reefing points, heavy weather plans or storm tactics?  I'd be interested to hear from those with experience.  And also, at what wind-speed or sea-state would you call for the JSD, or other big-drag-device?

Thanks in anticipation of your responses.

David
Perigee, SM#396
SXM


Re :[Amel Yacht Owners] Slowing down in increasing winds

christian alby <calbyy@...>
 

Hi there,
Just arrived in Funchal, Madeira, after 27 days crossing, beating most of the time, & rerouted from original destination Horta, due to  stormy conditipns SW of Azores on the 16-17/04.
Headed East in 45 kn winds, gusting 50+, & 7 M waves (weather report confimed) with period 11" crossed.
Mainsail down to 3rd reef, mizzen down to 2nd, genoa rolled down to 1/4, then replaced by 17sqm jib (heavy, stiff), beating all the way during 28 hrs at 60° off the wind.
Speed over ground 7 to 9 kn in wildest gusts.
Our Big Mama of a Maramu (only 46 ft) took it quietly, rudder kept soft & easy to handle as long as we kept the speed; worst was when luffing (change of helmsman).
We then had a good 8 days beating in 35-40 kn winds (increasing to 40 at night).
Never would have gone for escaping by running downwind, even though close to the decision if the sea had been rougher, then planned on furling the main & running with mizzen 2 reefs + 17sqm jib on a pole at 130° - 150° off the wind, depending on waves conditions.
Read Adlard Coles, heard the stories, shared experience & still believe that our boats are so rigid that they can handle the speed & keep going in rough conditions.
Heave to would be my way out in super heavy cpnditions.
Otherwise, weathe reports & barometer, & an eye for clouds formations give a good warning to choose escape routes.

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - maramu 116 - Nova marina Funchal


Le mar., mai 1, 2018 à 21:50, David Vogel dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners]
a écrit :
 

Hi all,

The greatest winds we have experienced on PERIGEE have been 35 knots sustained, gusting 42, estimated 6 meter seas, all on the beam.  Even with fully reefed sails, it was a strong ride, but not uncomfortable.  It never got to the stage of thinking to go to bare poles.

But it did raise the question about how, and when, to slow down.

We carry some old 5/8ths hauling line with about 3 meters of chain, plus an old tyre, to add drag if needed.  And a Jordan Series Drogue for if things get really tough.

I have heard suggestions from other cruisers to run out line with fenders attached every 10 or so meters, with chain or an anchor at the end.  For example, at 35kts, drop the chain/anchor overboard and run out 10-15 meters of line, then attach a fender, and then run out  another 10-15 metes of line.  At 40knots, add another fender, and run out some more line.  At 45knots, heave-to.  I do not wish to be cavalier, but these wind-speeds seem a little low for a Super Maramu as, based on my experience, our boats can handle these conditions with relish.

What are your reefing points, heavy weather plans or storm tactics?  I'd be interested to hear from those with experience.  And also, at what wind-speed or sea-state would you call for the JSD, or other big-drag-device?

Thanks in anticipation of your responses.

David
Perigee, SM#396
SXM


Slowing down in increasing winds

SV Perigee
 

Hi all,

The greatest winds we have experienced on PERIGEE have been 35 knots sustained, gusting 42, estimated 6 meter seas, all on the beam.  Even with fully reefed sails, it was a strong ride, but not uncomfortable.  It never got to the stage of thinking to go to bare poles.

But it did raise the question about how, and when, to slow down.

We carry some old 5/8ths hauling line with about 3 meters of chain, plus an old tyre, to add drag if needed.  And a Jordan Series Drogue for if things get really tough.

I have heard suggestions from other cruisers to run out line with fenders attached every 10 or so meters, with chain or an anchor at the end.  For example, at 35kts, drop the chain/anchor overboard and run out 10-15 meters of line, then attach a fender, and then run out  another 10-15 metes of line.  At 40knots, add another fender, and run out some more line.  At 45knots, heave-to.  I do not wish to be cavalier, but these wind-speeds seem a little low for a Super Maramu as, based on my experience, our boats can handle these conditions with relish.

What are your reefing points, heavy weather plans or storm tactics?  I'd be interested to hear from those with experience.  And also, at what wind-speed or sea-state would you call for the JSD, or other big-drag-device?

Thanks in anticipation of your responses.

David
Perigee, SM#396
SXM