Date   

Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Denis Foster
 

Hello,

I agree about the more robust system is mechanical injection found on old engines or still made for the non recreational market.

Besides the pollution compliance the main advantage is that the engine runs better even if under loaded which is quite common with modern sailboats that are often « overpowered ». The mechanical injection pump is tuned for around 70-80% load. At the 20% 30% load it is usually feeding to much fuel with the risk of glazing. Some mechanics advise running at near maximum load every ten hours for around 30minutes. AKA « Italian tuning ».

Modern common rail doesn’t need that apparently anymore.

These electronic diesel injectors can be all electronic or hydraulic electronically regulated. Both are sensible to lightning strike.

Once a mechanical diesel has started it only needs clean fuel and air to work. Very robust and reliable.



Denis



Envoyé de mon iPhone


Re: Furling main on Amel 60

 

I believe one answer could be that Amel is moving to off-the-shelf devices, rather than Amel-engineered devices for many things. The following is a list of such moves that I have noticed:
Amel Bow Thruster to Side-Power
Amel Genoa Furler to Bamar to Reckmann to ProFurl
Amel-assembled Main outhaul and furling motor assembled to a gearbox to a one-piece motor assembly
Amel-made freshwater level to off-the-shelf tank tenders
Amel-made breaker panels to off-the-shelf panels

I am sure the list is much longer. I believe it makes perfect sense. Many of these devices were not available for Amel to purchase when Amel decided to include them in their boats, or at the very least, what was available did not satisfy Captain Amel. Thus the Amel made and/or engineered devices. Today we have a different situation with what is available. Also, I assume that Amel realizes that the ethical liability to maintain and supply parts and replacements for in-house engineered, assembled, or made devices require a sizeable investment. Bottom Line is I totally understand Amel's movement to off-the-shelf devices and components.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 9:45 AM Denis Foster <deniswfoster@...> wrote:
What I meant is that Selden has had for many years a Mainsail hydraulic furling and outhaul in the boom.

And now they are selling a synchronised electric system for mainsail furling. I understood it uses load measuring to adapt the outhaul to the in mast furling.

Denis

Envoyé de mon iPhone



Re: A question to the hive mind re Amel 54 (Sleipner side power) Bow thruster capacitor please.

Mark & Debbie Mueller
 

Very recently I had an opportunity to get familiar with our Sleipner bow thruster.  No such part was in the unit.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Matt Salatino
 

We have a D.3  110 also. Our previous boat had a Yanmar without Turbo our common rail. It was every bit as smooth and quiet as our D3. Never had a sensor issue. Clean fuel is all it needed. 
To me, there are so many complex systems on out boats, the simpler any one component, the better. 
We like the D3 so far, but we’re only up to the 250 hour service interval. 

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 23, 2020, at 3:43 PM, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Matt,

I'm not saying the mechanical injection is not preferable on a boat. But saying common rail was developed just to satisfy emission regulations is not true. It was obviously a added bonus that should be cared for if not for our children, but the efficiency, smoothness and power delivery of a modern common rail diesel is so much better then the classic stuff. Especially if you go into turbo-diesel territory.
So in a car its vastly preferably over the old technology. But I do agree, for a boat much less so. But keep in mind the following, there are still people that say a engine has no place on a sailing yacht and you should handle everything with your sails. I'm not one of them but my point is that what now is seen as normal used to be exotic and failure prone. Fact is that a huge number of boats use common rail now and it's not like they are all failing because of whatever.

My point is that when deciding for a new engine, look at the full package and decide on what you feel is important to you. I know there is one Yanmar engine where for many boats it is close to impossible to change the impeller as it sits on the other end of the engine. So if you are in the middle of wherever and need to change a failing impeller you will not be a happy camper. That does not make Yanmar a bad engine. They have a well deserved good reputation.

My own D3-110 has it flaws but I can't complain about the smoothness, efficiency and quietness of this engine. Thanks to being common rail.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Furling main on Amel 60

Denis Foster
 

What I meant is that Selden has had for many years a Mainsail hydraulic furling and outhaul in the boom.

And now they are selling a synchronised electric system for mainsail furling. I understood it uses load measuring to adapt the outhaul to the in mast furling.

Denis

Envoyé de mon iPhone


Re: Output on SM

Thomas Peacock
 

Hi Alexander,

That looks like a proprietary (maybe Garmin?) receptacle for the main electrical supply for a chart plotter. If your chartplotter doesn’t plug into it, then it may be of no use. But you can always use the hole for another receptacle.

There must be wires coming out of the back. I would assume two of them are 12 volt power, maybe others go to a NMEA network. Have you checked where they go?

Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay

On Aug 23, 2020, at 9:39 AM, Alexander Schenk via groups.io <schenkschierloh=me.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hello,

Having purchased our SM last year and due to COVID-restrictions we are getting to know our boat better (and working on our extensive worklist) with every day we have the possibility to be on board.

I am currently looking fror to find out how to use a plotter or other electronic device in the cockpit.

I have found the following


Anybody any idea what this might be used for (plotter?, computer?)

I have already tried to contact the previous owner but to no avail so far.

Thankful for any idea.

Best
Alexander

SY Antinea
#231




<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg>
--
Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay


Re: Furling main on Amel 60

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Denis,

Aha, so you are saying they are now using a hydraulic furling system for the main. Interesting as it seems the headsail furlers are still electric. I'm not sure if I like that added complexity.

Thanks for the info,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Matt,

I'm not saying the mechanical injection is not preferable on a boat. But saying common rail was developed just to satisfy emission regulations is not true. It was obviously a added bonus that should be cared for if not for our children, but the efficiency, smoothness and power delivery of a modern common rail diesel is so much better then the classic stuff. Especially if you go into turbo-diesel territory.
So in a car its vastly preferably over the old technology. But I do agree, for a boat much less so. But keep in mind the following, there are still people that say a engine has no place on a sailing yacht and you should handle everything with your sails. I'm not one of them but my point is that what now is seen as normal used to be exotic and failure prone. Fact is that a huge number of boats use common rail now and it's not like they are all failing because of whatever.

My point is that when deciding for a new engine, look at the full package and decide on what you feel is important to you. I know there is one Yanmar engine where for many boats it is close to impossible to change the impeller as it sits on the other end of the engine. So if you are in the middle of wherever and need to change a failing impeller you will not be a happy camper. That does not make Yanmar a bad engine. They have a well deserved good reputation.

My own D3-110 has it flaws but I can't complain about the smoothness, efficiency and quietness of this engine. Thanks to being common rail.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Output on SM

Alexander Schenk
 

Hello,

Having purchased our SM last year and due to COVID-restrictions we are getting to know our boat better (and working on our extensive worklist) with every day we have the possibility to be on board.

I am currently looking fror to find out how to use a plotter or other electronic device in the cockpit.

I have found the following


Anybody any idea what this might be used for (plotter?, computer?)

I have already tried to contact the previous owner but to no avail so far.

Thankful for any idea.

Best
Alexander

SY Antinea
#231


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Matt Salatino
 

Much of the expense is the labor involved, so the 50% component of the motor, isn’t so much. Also, you don’t rebuild everything. Some components will still be original. Are you going to rebuild the HP pump? The injectors? If so, the 50% difference declines...... given my life’s lessons with rebuild vs new, I’d go with new every time.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 23, 2020, at 1:21 PM, Volker <Puchta@...> wrote:

The Perkins M50 has run 4300 hours. It start still good on the first click, but creates some oil smoke and he oil consumption is at about 1 liter per 100 hours.
A complete rebuilt would cost about 50% of an brand new engine. Could be an option, but if you one day decide to sell the boat this would not benefit the selling price.

Volker
Mickmoon, Sharki hull no 176


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Volker
 

The Perkins M50 has run 4300 hours. It start still good on the first click, but creates some oil smoke and he oil consumption is at about 1 liter per 100 hours.
A complete rebuilt would cost about 50% of an brand new engine. Could be an option, but if you one day decide to sell the boat this would not benefit the selling price.

Volker
Mickmoon, Sharki hull no 176


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

He Matt

Thank you.
the hotel was a very helpful and very understandable answer!

Thanks Elja
SM Balu 222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Matt Salatino
 

Mechanical fuel injection is very reliable. It only needs clean fuel, and the lubricaring qualities of the fuel will keep the system happy for many years.
Commonrail fuel injection was developed to satisfy strict pollution requirements. The fuel is kept at high pressure behind all injectors (common rail) and the opening and closing of electronically controlled injectors is controlled by a computer. The computer can turn on and off the injectors rapidly, cycling the injectors multiple times during one combustion cycle. This allows the fuel to be burned to reduce pollution. 
Good on paper.
The problem arises if an electronic component, computer, injector, sensor, etc, fails. This requires an electronics tech to diagnose.
Also, and of most importance, a lightning strike can destroy the electronics, disabling the engine entirely. This can’t happen with mechanical fuel injection.
I was at the Annapolis Boat Show, admiring the Yanmar engines at their display. I asked a technician there what happens if the boat is struck by lightning. He replied that he just repaired a new engine that suffered a lightning strike. He replaced the computer, the injectors, and all sensors. The bill to the customer was $10,000.
A mechanically fuel injected engine would have no failure and subsequent repair bill.
Otherwise, no problems at all!😀

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 23, 2020, at 11:41 AM, Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222 <Bijorka@...> wrote:

Please one question .
What is the problem with the commonrail technik on a sail boat ?

Thanks Elja
SM Balu 222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet




Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Please one question .
What is the problem with the commonrail technik on a sail boat ?

Thanks Elja
SM Balu 222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Re: Furling main on Amel 60

Denis Foster
 

Hello,

The Selden setup is like this or also a hydraulic in boom with a synchronised furling unfurling with The hydraulic in mast with only one button.

I think Selden has just released a synchronised Electrical version.

Regards

Denis
Ex Meltem #32


Envoyé de mon iPhone


Re: Furling main on Amel 60

Arno Luijten
 
Edited

Found this picture:



I'm intrigued by this. Why did they change the setup?

Regards,
Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Volker,
Just out of curiosity, how many hours are on your M50 and what issues are leading you to plan on a replacement?
Cheers, Craig  SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: Ladder

Mark McGovern
 

Quetzal gets around!  Here are some pics of her stern in Le Marin Martinique in June 2017:44



Here is a close up of the ladder:



--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

 

I recommend Beta because:

They use Kubota diesels
They have no computer
They have more experience with isolated ground, and 
My clients who have repowered with them are happy.

Email me if you want more. brouse@...

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Sat, Aug 22, 2020, 12:40 PM Volker <Puchta@...> wrote:
Good advise not to go with the new common rail technology. That are exactly my thoughts to go for simple but reliable. 
As Beta is not that common here in Europe, I have got an offer for a Sole Mini 62. Spanish brand, Mitsubishi basis 4 stroke, without turbo. 
The old Perkins installed by Amel does have a mass free installation (minus does have complete extra wiring). I think this is not standard installation and may need modifications in the motor electrics. Does anyone know wether this is really essential?

Thank‘s
Volker
Mickmoon, Sharki hull no. 176


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Volker
 

Good advise not to go with the new common rail technology. That are exactly my thoughts to go for simple but reliable. 
As Beta is not that common here in Europe, I have got an offer for a Sole Mini 62. Spanish brand, Mitsubishi basis 4 stroke, without turbo. 
The old Perkins installed by Amel does have a mass free installation (minus does have complete extra wiring). I think this is not standard installation and may need modifications in the motor electrics. Does anyone know wether this is really essential?

Thank‘s
Volker
Mickmoon, Sharki hull no. 176