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Facing in or out--- SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***
eric freedman
Jose, Just to clarify things about this discussion. I assume that when you say the lip seal is facing in you mean that the rubber side is facing towards the C drive and when you say out you mean the spring side is facing the C drive. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376 .
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 6:36 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***
Danny and Bill,
First, I don't take it personally our interaction and also respect and by-enlarge agree with your conservative approach to keeping the boat as close as possible to the original design. I also agree that the safest approach for new owners, particularly those without background or experience should stay within the original specs. So I don't see as a personal argument but more as an open discussion that may or may not lead to a better solution for some of the small issues of our boats. For example, adding grease ports to the furling gears can prolong the life of these very expensive parts for a long time. The "amel way" resulted in the replacement of two gears by the previous owner and onece by me. This is a clear example of how the "amel way" COULD BE can be improved.
Now, we all know that milky oil in the C-Drive is something common in most of our boats in spite of trying to strictly follow the "amel way". We also know that Amel has been experimenting with ways to reduce the premature entry of water by making harder bushings and that in Martinique they have been changing the scheme having two seals to prevent water in and only one to prevent oil out. You also told me that they now recommend heavier oil and that they had worked on a hardened bushing surface that seems to work but Maud told me that they did not plan to sell them it in the future. So even Amel has recognized the need to work on reducing the incidence of water leaking into the C-Drive which may not kill it but even you would agree is not good. And that has been my motivation to write these posts.
As for Danny statement that oil cannot leave because it is lighter than water, it all depends on which direction the seals are oriented. With the Amel way, water is only prevented to come by the outer seal. Once it is gone, water can flow up along the two other seals that are not preventing that motion. In my experiment I had both the inner and central seals with the lips facing the propeller (preventing water from coming in but allowing oil to move out) The outer seal was facing the C-drive, thus acting to prevent the oil from leaking out but allowing some lubrication by the water. My experience was that after 4 and 1/2 seasons there was a very slow reduction of the oil level when the outer seal/bushing wore out. However, this leak was eliminated by adding the additive that made the oil heavier. So, water or oil can move in or out depending on the direction of the seals that remain working.
With my approach, the outer seal was the only one preventing oil from leaving and, just as I observed, oil began to flow out very slowly when that seal/bush surface wear developed a leak since the two inner seals did not prevent the flow of oil out. The good news was that the leak was very very slow and that making the oil heavier acted to make that last seal work again since the additional viscous pressure drop forced the seal lip towards the shaft preventing or minimizing a further oil leak. Note that from there on the seal was well lubricated by a minimal oil leak and likely would have kept working for a long time before oil began to flow out again.
The good news is that this approach allows you to keep sailing until you find the proper place to do the repair and, as in my experience of 5 seasons without damaging the C-Drive. Note that I kept the bushing/seals in place as an experiment and not as a recommendation to the general user, BUT MY EXPERIENCE LEADS ME TO RECOMMEND THE ALTERNATIVE SEAL ORIENTATION to eliminate the milky oil and give you the time to find a proper site for repairing it
Of course, everyone is free to take it or not my recommendation and I hope that within the coming years we compare notes to see how things are going. I do promise that I will immediately report if my C-Drive freezes ;)
No hard feelings and this closes my chapter FOR this topic until at least 2 years.
Fair winds
Jose Ipanema SM2K 278
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
With you on that Rink Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 12 May 2018 at 21:46 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: genua traveller pulley
Herbert Lackner
thx John and Bill,
I checked now the Antal product range, 801.060 might fit. As I am not on the boat and want to organize everything before returning to the boat and going to the pacific, maybe there is a proud santorin owner who could check if these dimensions would fit. thx, herbert http://www.antal.it/eng/801-060_en Batten dimensions 15 mm Ø sheave (D) 60 mm Side bearing Torlon balls Radial bearing composite fibre Weight 160 gr Ø max line 14 mm SWL 2200 kg Sheave material Aluminum D2 15 mm Thickness (T) 38 mm
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: genua traveller pulley
Herbert, I remember Ian Shepherd, SM FREESPIRIT, replaced or repaired the Antal Genoa Car on his SM. I believe it is identical to the SN. Email Ian Shepherd yahoo.co.uk>. Maybe he has the specific information. Best, CW Bill Rouse Admiral, Texas Navy Commander Emeritus Amel School http://www.amelschool.com 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 9:13 AM, john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: genua traveller pulley
John Clark
Hi Herbert,
I don't have a ready answer to your direct question other than on my 1990 SM the hardware is all Antal. But I will ask, have you disassembled the pulley already? Last month I noticed a similar issue with one of the pulleys on one of my genoa cars. It was creaking and squeaking as genoa sheet tension changed. Hosing it down did nothing to stop the sound. The pulley was turning however but was hard to move. I disassembled the unit and found the roller bearings were dry and a 3mm piece of one of them had chipped off and was lodged in the bearing. As we were in transit, I did an "underway repair" by cleaning everything up and greasing the rollers with small amount of marine grease. Voila! no more squeak and a free spinning roller. This particular piece of hardware has "open bearings" as is the case with most sailboat exterior hardware. Salt and other debris can build up inside and "gum up" the works. I routinely hose them down to keep that from happening. They normally don't use grease, especially if they have plastic bearings, mine were metal so a spot of grease won't hurt. If they are plastic though a bit of teflon spray lube is probably OK. Disassembly was easy, just the one bolt through the center. Sorry if I am preaching to the choir. Regards, John John Clark SV Annie SM 37 Druif Bay USVI ---In amelyachtowners@..., <herbert@...> wrote : hi all, the pulleys on KALI MERAs genua travellers are end of life, genua sheet is sliding in the roller / pulley and pulley is not turning anymore. Does anyone know a source for a replacement? Size (in mm) is: * outer diameter - 59,5 * inner diameter - 14,25 (where the bolt goes through) * width - 37 has anyone found a source where that can be purchased ready built? has anyone made a replacement? what material did you use? thx, herbert KALI MERA, SN120, on the hard at Shelter Bay Panama
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genua traveller pulley
Herbert Lackner
hi all,
the pulleys on KALI MERAs genua travellers are end of life, genua sheet is sliding in the roller / pulley and pulley is not turning anymore. Does anyone know a source for a replacement? Size (in mm) is: * outer diameter - 59,5 * inner diameter - 14,25 (where the bolt goes through) * width - 37 has anyone found a source where that can be purchased ready built? has anyone made a replacement? what material did you use? thx, herbert KALI MERA, SN120, on the hard at Shelter Bay Panama
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum
Good words Rink
Let's carry on ! Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum
Rink De Haan
Thanks Jose, you are right.
With my tone of voice I didn’t achieve what I wanted. I apologize to everyone who’s offended.
Let’s keep up the good work of this forum.
Regards
Rink
From: amelyachtowners@... on behalf of lji0041@... [amelyachtowners]
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 5:13:27 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum Hi mates, I am sorry if I cannot follow the details on this. I just made an exercise to look in the database.
What I could see is that you guys have helped each other and the rest of mates through all these years.
It is a pity that we cannot see each other sharing some beers in the canteen, as if we were on the same port. Probably it would be different.
Definitely, the email and sequels were invented by the devil, so we have to be careful in how we use it, because we cannot see our faces and lose a lot of the communication.
Forums like this, where the goal is to help each other, cannot afford losing valued members. I wish you could pick up the phone and see what is really going on.
Wish I could be with you guys in the middle of a real storm. I know I would be safe.
Jose
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh Water Pump
Thank you.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Peter Peter Forbes 00447836 209730
On 12 May 2018, at 06:02, Denis Elborn delborn@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Modified SM Prop Shaft Seal Bush
rossirossix4
Hi Everyone, Given recent postings on the WOB and my experience about a month ago I think it is a good time to post regarding an experiemental WOB that I had received from Amel. I had received it in March, 2014 and thought, mistakenly that this was simply the new design that AMEL provided. Instead, I learned later that these were trial versions that Amel had somehow provided to me. Not sure if anyone else got them. So here are the pics I posted back in September, 2014 -- https://www.dropbox.com/sc/1tompsdjss3rr0r/AACGUoVzzawY5RnlyKpnjwRga . In a phone conversation with Maud she confirmed that Amel was trying these out. About 2 years ago I had installed this new type WOB in Turkey and changed it here in Malta and examined it carefully (note we visited Croatia and Venice on the way back, so the miles are there). Please also note that I am making no claims about whether Amel should convert to these but I will tell you what I reported to Amel--which is that I was replacing the O ring inside and re-using the WOB! Below is the content of my email to Maud and her response back to me. I thought it was important to provide the information to Amel and give them time before placing it in front of the group. Please also note that Adm Bill was privy to the info and he has contacted Amel via one of his contacts there to suggest they consider switching to the new WOB. OK...the email to Maud on April 4 and her response on April 5. "Hi Maud, About 3.5 years ago you sent me an "experimental" WOB that Amel was trying out. It is a normal bronze WOB with a stainless surface where the lip seals mount. I was confused about it but in a later telephone conversation you talked with someone at Amel and then explained to me that Amel was trying out the new special WOB. I promised to mount it and report back to you. I serviced the Amel drive on my Super Maramu KAIMI #429 about 2 years ago and installed the special WOB. Last week I serviced it again. There was virtually no wear on the WOB. There was no evidence of water in the drive oil (90 wt) and the springs inside the seals were not rusted (I pack them with grease). It is my impression that the WOB did very well. While I could see some "polishing" could not detect any ridge or groove with my fingernail and I replaced the O ring inside the WOB and am re-using the WOB. I plan to report back again on the next service in a year or 2. I have included a link to photos of the removed WOB. For comparison I show a regular used WOB. You are welcome to forward this email to any others at Amel and I will be happy to answer any other questions that you have. Click on individual images for larger photo -- https://photos.app.goo.gl/cW2QtzN7OeKaupoP2 Robert Rossi SM#429 KAIMI" Response back from Maud-- "Dear Robert, Thank you for your nice message and detailed report. I will forward the results of your test to the AMEL technical department and I am certain they will be glad to hear it is very positive. Thank you again for being such a supportive customer!! Have a nice day. With my kindest regards, Maud TOUILLET Service clientèle/Customer service" Highlights--I could detect NO wear other than a bit of polishing where normally you would see a groove...note the used bronze version as a comparison. There was no evidence of water in the 90 wt oil which I actually ran back through my Mr.Funnel to see if there was water--none-- and now have re-stored for possible future use. Note also that there was no noticeable rust on the springs in the seals. And, as noted, I am re-using the WOB. We plan on pulling out for hurricane season in the Caribbean 14 months from now and I will re-check it. Ironically, the entire process left me kind of upset with myself for even doing the change! https://photos.app.goo.gl/cW2QtzN7OeKaupoP2 Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM429 Gozo in the Maltese archipelago
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Cancelling my membership from this forum
Hi Danny and Hanspeter...
I agree...the forum is working better than ever. The enormous amount of useful information in here is impressive. I can often find the answer to my question just by searching conversations. I like it. I don't like Facebook and have recently deleted my account. Personal aggravation doesn't get anyone anywhere. Of course, none of us will agree all the time, but if you don't agree, you can just say it and put the counter argument...no need to take it personally...or to be rude to anyone because you don't agree...... I don't agree with either of you, and others, sometimes, but I don't burst my spleen about it. As Danny says, stay cool.... Cheers Alan Elyse SM437 ....Savusavu, Fiji
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh Water Pump
Denis Elborn
Hi Peter,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Penguin refrigeration sell them in the UK. Denis Aventura 54-113
On 11 May 2018, at 1:13 pm, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Cancelling my membership from this forum
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Hanspeter, I was one of the "old" who liked it the way it was.I saw no need for change. And I remain of that opinion. Since those days it has gone from strength to strength, numbers of posts are hugely up and valuable information is being shared. At that time it was mostly SM owners. Now we have the whole spectrum of models involved, great. It is working. If it aint broke don't fiddle with it. As to conflict, we have people, every now and then there will be disagreement, it happens, its not fatal. Someones comment about email being the ideal system to create conflict is so right. Too easy to bang off a reply that can so easily be misunderstood. Stay cool folks. Kind Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl Mangonui New Zealand
On 12 May 2018 at 08:55 "'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Cancelling my membership from this forum
hanspeter baettig
To all I think its a pretty that some of us Amel owners is angry and cancelled the membership. I always supported this group, also with critical answers/questions! One thing. A technical forum, as it was , should go on with new technology. I remeber, a follower of us , I forgot his name, sorry, made a tremendos work to put this forum from the old yahoo platform to new design on a very well desigend web based platform. Every body was entousiastic, but some old fellows , Bill example disagreed. The hole work of this gentleman is gone. If we put in place a new up to date platform, we can eliminate personal things. Look on the french Amel Owners Website. Thats the way we should do it. Looking foreward that this personal things is over and we shall have only a technical platform Hanspeter Tamango 2 Von meinem iPhone gesendet Am 11.05.2018 um 13:52 schrieb bernard lawson bernardlawson665@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:
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Re: clean the sea water intake
ya_fohi
Hi Alex,
I use a copper pipe, about 3/4 inch I think (I'm not on the boat now), but it fits quite neatly in the pipe and through the seacock with a few mm to spare. I had a complete blockage and shoved this pipe down and it clerared it immediately. My only concern was to pull it back up and not get it stuck, which fortunately never happened. I'd be interested in any other opinions on this. Cheers, Paul Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***
hanspeter baettig
Rink I agree with you. The Emek Arch is not the Amel way. Riza is not a person to work with us. The SS Arche, lets say the SS is not Amel quality; maybe from China. and It's unfair dealing with Amel owners. I paid 3500 € incl. Solar panales and other Amel owners paid 4-5 k €. Anyway about Emek all is explained in it this forum, pro, contras. Every body must have his own experience, thats blue water sailing. But maybe and I agree with a lot of US Amel owners, Bill makes a good job for new Amel Owners. But like in life, we both have a lot of experieance of out boat. me for 26 years owner of my SM. And there are a lot of other Amel owners having the same or more knowledge of the Amel'. But what Bill is doing, other the us, his is distributing his knowledeg to the new Amel owners, I believe thats amazing; even I'm not all the time in line with him. So go on Bill. Just my 2 cents wording Hanspeter SM16,Tamango 2 Teneriffa Von meinem iPhone gesendet
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] clean the sea water intake
Alex,
Fully remove the manifold from the vessel. If you have a pressure washer aboard, that works very well, else Barnacle Buster (phosphoric acid solution) works.
To clean the through-hull while the boat is in the water, I use a ½” PVP pipe and ram it up and down from inside the sea-chest. When the sea-chest fills with water, use a shop-vac to remove the seawater. A power wash will make short work of cleaning the strainer in the sea-chest.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - Curaçao www.creampuff.us
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Cear amelians, what is the best tool / method to clean the WHOLE pipe that goes from the sea water filter all the way down to the sea water intake in the hull (while boat is in water)?
Thanks for your advice, Alex SY
NO STRESS
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main sheet boom slider broken
John Clark
I guess we are "lucky" to have an older SM which came with a manual mainsheet winch, so we have not had the issue of the mainsheet attachment blocks cracking. That said even with the manual winch I have had to stop crew members from over tightening the mainsheet. What alerts me is the sound of the winch sheet and blocks when the sheet is too tight. If we had the electric winch things would be happening much faster and probably we would have broken the blocks too. We do have the electric genoa winches and they make me nervous. One caviler crewmen holding the button and not seeing a fouled line could cause a lot of damage quickly. In the 16 months I have had Annie I have adapted to almost never use the electric power feature on those winches. I instruct crew to only use the button if they really need to, maybe when doing a single handed tack, or some such maneuver. Manually adjusting sails also teaches them to watch the sails more closely and get a better feel for the sail tuning. Regards, John SV Annie SM 37 Druif Bay USVI
On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 7:47 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Introduction - Future SM Owner, Enthusiastic Lurker!
John Clark
Congratulations and welcome to the group. Hope to see you out and about someday. Regards, John John Clark SV Annie SM 37 Druif Bay USVI
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 11:29 AM, rg@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cancelling my membership from this forum
John Clark
I guess I need to read the whole thread before replying. Sorry I didn't realize there was a tiff underway, just trying to be helpful. Regards, John
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 11:13 AM, lji0041@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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