Date   
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: prop shaft bonding

James Alton
 

Bill,

  I think that you understand metals and corrosion pretty well.   In my experience, a really good bronze can survive the Marine environment for the life of the boat unprotected but those types of bronze are not strong enough to make a thin prop blade out of.  Props as I understand things are made of stronger but more corrosion prone alloys, hence the need for protection.  I am quite sure that you are correct that the bronze prop on my Loki is protecting the stainless shaft galvanically.

  We took care of a customers Gulfstar 54 over the period of 20+ years and tried various coatings for the twin PYI feathering props and even Prop Speed failed after 6 months by bubbling off.  While the coating tended to fail first on the back side of the leading edge of the prop, bubbles would form over all of the surfaces with the boat just sitting.  I think that the zincs for the PYI Max Prop might have some magnesium in the alloy to increase the level of protection but at any rate the anodes did corrode away on those props much more quickly than the common shaft zincs.   Imo there is a definite  connection between the rapid corrosion of the anodes and the lifting of coatings on underwater metals such as a prop.   

  I have had to replace a lot of wood in boats damaged by the Alkali buildup and have seen a few nice wooden boats completely destroyed from serious over zincing.  The amount of damage to the wood is as you allude a function of how heavily protected the metals are.   While our  fibreglass hulls are not affected themselves, you can sometimes see some (generally minor)  alkali damage to wooden backing blocks under protected bronze seacocks.  For some reason, bronze alloys are the worst about building up the Alkali when protected than stainless or monel.  

James
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220


On Nov 24, 2017, at 12:13 AM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I haven't seen problems with propspeed being bubbled off my prop. (A MaxProp that I keep a zinc on).  What I do see is the coating fail (after about a year) at those parts of the blades that tend to cavitate--on the back side, near the root of the flat, uncupped, blades.  Maybe in the absence of zinc that might not happen, but that's not an experiment I intend to run!


I wouldn't expect zinc to protect the stainless in a cutlass bearing or under the packing.  The problem there is low O2 content of the water, resulting in incomplete formation of the protective oxide coating. It's not the kind of galvanic corrosion that zinc prevents.  

In most boat's running gear the stainless is the most noble of the connected metals, so it sits there happy while the bronze dissolves.

I have little first hand experience with wood boats.  I know of the problems with al kali attack on wood, but I thought that was only a problem when the metal was significantly overprotected by excess zinc.  If I ever lose my mind and buy a wood boat, I'll remember what you say here!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Saltwater Manifold

Porter McRoberts
 

Good info Bill. 
Not to reignite another metallurgy and salts of acid talk, but I now refuse any chlorides in the bilges or sea chest. I had been advised (not by Rouse) to use them freely. Your chemistry is sound. 
Thanks for your findings!  

And happy thanksgiving everyone. 


Porter
54-152
Highbourne Cay

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Nov 23, 2017, at 8:38 AM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

It is very strange the highly variable life of the SM manifold. 


I took ours (20 years old) out last year, cleaned it, checked the metal thickness, and in every way it was like new.  Other than a bit of green patina on the outside surface, it looked as though it had been manufactured yesterday. I gave it a new coat of black paint, and it is back in. Unless something changes dramatically, it should give us good service for many more years.

Both the main seacock and the manifold should be connected to the bonding system, although the presence or lack of of bonding would have no impact on _external_ corrosion of those parts.

Maintenance might have something to do with it.  Allowing salt to sit against the manifold from a tiny leak at the hose joint would be a bad thing.  Stop the leak, and be sure the solid salt is rinsed away. Such salt can create a conductive path from the stainless hose clamps to the copper manifold that would not be a good thing.

I have heard that some people will drop a "chorine tablet" (Calcium hypochlorite) into the seachest to discourage bio-fouling.  This would also explain a short life for the copper manifold (and any other copper parts in the seawater piping!) and is (in my opinion) a bad idea.

Otherwise than those guesses I have no idea what happens to some of these manifolds...  copper should have a very long, almost indefinite, life in seawater service.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Genoa Sheet Length

islandpearl2_sm2k332
 

Nice idea Paul. Just saved me a bit of cash!
Cheers
Colin, SM#332

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 2:36 AM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

We have made a very tiny loop of the core at the ens of the genua sheet, a similar lopp at the end of an other rope, so when sailing with poolen out Genua We extens the sheet by attaching a linje with a soft chakle to the sheet, several advantages No need for a New sheet, and less rope in the cockpit when sailing without poling out the Genua.

Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445

Re: Alarm Sound

Dean Gillies
 

Hi folks,
Arrived at the boat late last night.
The prize goes to Courtney, it was coming from the Boxtron Unit in the bow locker!

The alarm was a sequence of 7 beeps then a pause.
I disconnected the unit and the alarm stopped.

Today's task is to find out why.

Will keep you posted...

Re: Genoa Sheet Length

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

According to the original Amel specs, as posted here by Bill Rouse :   https://xa.yimg.com/df/amelyachtowners/Running+Rigging+Measurements+Super+Maramu+French+%26+English.xls?token=XdHHsZRjsl0T7Svb0CLBDfW1WAtIJUGYFy5om-z3S_pYH_ZgSszJF_tWE1CF1VuVsLQli0e3wo2juU9SL9xx-YmeIRLRbl0sIYUXrIQoyKnALUNxj6dfYkqTJsf8O-0yUS0CineX9z3MabpXrTunG0Zp4J8m5WnyS-eWj7ZsADjoVnxMXoW9VU4_A5UIzmT4CIsLssUWNbFQbPWCi2L9&type=download
the jib sheet is 42 meters long ( 21 meters each side) which would not be long enough to rig as you describe.  

Gary Silver
Amel SM #335
s/v Liahona
Puerto Rico

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: prop shaft bonding

greatketch@...
 

I haven't seen problems with propspeed being bubbled off my prop. (A MaxProp that I keep a zinc on).  What I do see is the coating fail (after about a year) at those parts of the blades that tend to cavitate--on the back side, near the root of the flat, uncupped, blades.  Maybe in the absence of zinc that might not happen, but that's not an experiment I intend to run!

I wouldn't expect zinc to protect the stainless in a cutlass bearing or under the packing.  The problem there is low O2 content of the water, resulting in incomplete formation of the protective oxide coating. It's not the kind of galvanic corrosion that zinc prevents.  

In most boat's running gear the stainless is the most noble of the connected metals, so it sits there happy while the bronze dissolves.

I have little first hand experience with wood boats.  I know of the problems with alkali attack on wood, but I thought that was only a problem when the metal was significantly overprotected by excess zinc.  If I ever lose my mind and buy a wood boat, I'll remember what you say here!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL

Looking for a testsail on Amel 54

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Group,

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but we would really like to have a day out on a Amel 54 to see what she's like to sail. We are living in the South-Caribbean and ideally would like to meet an owner in the Caribbean.
But other offers are also received with gratitude.

We are trying to figure out if a Amel 54 is right for us. It would mean a huge step in our budget so we are trying to figure out if we are the right people for this great yacht.


Thanks in advance to anyone that help us making our mind up.


Arno

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cautionary Turbo Tale

Duane Siegfri
 

Pat,

Does the breather line (usually a rubber hose attached to the top of the valve cover) go to the air cleaner that feeds the turbo?

Duane

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh water pump needs a knock to start

ya_fohi
 

Bill,

Thanks. It's not the predsure switch. As I don't have any diagrams, are the carbon brushes easy to get to? Any pointers? Can this be done on situ or do I need to remove the pump to get at them?

Cheers,
Paul

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh water pump needs a knock to start

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Paul,

Check the pressure switch and the carbon brushes.


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Nov 23, 2017 08:48, "sharongbrown@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi,

I have a Reya fresh water pump on my Amel 54 and now when the pressure drops it does not start until I give it a knock with my hand at the top. It seems like maybe there is something sticking inside but I have no experience with these pumps so would appreciate some advise on how to remedy this.

Cheers,
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: prop shaft bonding

James Alton
 

Bill,
  On my wooden Loki Yawl the bronze prop has been completely unprotected since the boat was launched in 2000.  On a wooden boat the addition of zincs causes an alkali to build up inside of the boat on the protected metal which slowly destroys the wood hence the aversion to zinc in this case.  It is far cheaper to replace the prop than the wood in other words. The prop at this stage has some corrosion and thinning noticeable along the leading edge but it is minor and the prop is still safe to use.  The stainless shaft still looks perfect even under the packing. I have kept the prop coated with prop speed which lasts multiple years because of the lack of zinc.  Protected bronze tends to bubble off just about any coating you put on it in short order as you are probably aware.  On my Amel I will keep a shaft zinc on to protect things since the alkali does not bother fiberglass and the running gear is more expensive.

James
Sv Suneo Maramu #220


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 11-23-2017 10:59 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: prop shaft bonding


 

If you had an unbonded SS shaft with no anode, I am curious...  how did your prop survive?


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Ft Lauderdale, FL

Starting Battery BOSCH S5015 (610402092) 110Ah battery Low Self-Discharge

rossirossix4
 

For future searches on starter batteries.

The starter battery part of this discussion reminds me--If there are (European) automotive battery suppliers around you might check out the BOSCH S5015 Battery (610402092) 110Ah 992CA. It is a flooded maintenance free battery.   

The 393x175x190 physical size is exactly perfect for Super Maramu 2000.  Terminals allow cable to the side or ends and were no problem. 

It is low profile enough not to require any modification to the wood above and again sits perfectly in the compartment using the small Amel wood block set on edge at the end (about 1") . This size and type is specified for some of the larger Mercedes (etc) automobiles with the larger V8 diesels and had plenty of muscle for our engines. Bosch has an S3, S4, S5 .  The S3 probably fine, the S4 better, and the S5 with some capacity for higher drain electrics on cars (probably unnecessary but may be a help if your starter battery goes without charging for a longer period of time). 

You can see the specs on the S5015 here (random vendor)  https://www.tayna.co.uk/S5-015-Bosch-Car-Battery-Type-020-S5015-P9707.html 

From Bosch progaganda....

"The Bosch S5 Battery will tolerate short journeys better than any other battery in its price range. Maintenance Free Silver Calcium technology lies at the heart of the Bosch S5 battery series with Labyrinth Lid Technology and superior internal grid construction.  The Bosch S5 can sit for 18+ Months (charged) and its performance will not be compromised."  Impressive looking in the battery compartment BTW (when Adm Bill saw it in Siracusa).  I am away from KAIMI but will post a pic when I return to Malta.

"BOSCH S5 features:
30% higher cold cranking power,
30% longer service life,
For new generation cars with additional safety and comfort electrical equipment,
100% maintenance free battery,
Minimum self-discharge,
Produced using the advanced technology of silver,
Maximum security,
The patented "labyrinth" cover prevents electrolyte spills or evaporate,
Protection from a gas explosion.
Reliable driving short distances in urban cycle."

Anyway, perfect size and shape (for SM 2000), plenty of power, low self-discharge, moderate price.  It definitely has more punch than our previous 31 series--a slightly faster steady crank really helps the Onan start quickly.  The 18+ month sitting is probably in a vehicle with car alarm, advanced computer, etc. Other brands are probably good also.
 
Bob, KAIMI SM429

 

Re: prop shaft bonding

greatketch@...
 

If you had an unbonded SS shaft with no anode, I am curious...  how did your prop survive?

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Ft Lauderdale, FL

Fresh water pump needs a knock to start

ya_fohi
 

Hi,

I have a Reya fresh water pump on my Amel 54 and now when the pressure drops it does not start until I give it a knock with my hand at the top. It seems like maybe there is something sticking inside but I have no experience with these pumps so would appreciate some advise on how to remedy this.

Cheers,
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: Saltwater Manifold

greatketch@...
 

It is very strange the highly variable life of the SM manifold. 

I took ours (20 years old) out last year, cleaned it, checked the metal thickness, and in every way it was like new.  Other than a bit of green patina on the outside surface, it looked as though it had been manufactured yesterday. I gave it a new coat of black paint, and it is back in. Unless something changes dramatically, it should give us good service for many more years.

Both the main seacock and the manifold should be connected to the bonding system, although the presence or lack of of bonding would have no impact on _external_ corrosion of those parts.

Maintenance might have something to do with it.  Allowing salt to sit against the manifold from a tiny leak at the hose joint would be a bad thing.  Stop the leak, and be sure the solid salt is rinsed away. Such salt can create a conductive path from the stainless hose clamps to the copper manifold that would not be a good thing.

I have heard that some people will drop a "chorine tablet" (Calcium hypochlorite) into the seachest to discourage bio-fouling.  This would also explain a short life for the copper manifold (and any other copper parts in the seawater piping!) and is (in my opinion) a bad idea.

Otherwise than those guesses I have no idea what happens to some of these manifolds...  copper should have a very long, almost indefinite, life in seawater service.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cautionary Turbo Tale

Patrick McAneny
 

Duane, I can only confirm from what you wrote , that I am not as much of a mechanic as yourself. I don't have a Yanmar , but I assume a Volvo would function the same as you describe. A couple of things I do know , is to always start with the simple and work towards the complex. The other is that oil belongs in the engine , not in the intake manifold , where I guess it could result in a runaway engine. Since I will be having the turbo rebuilt , I will for now , assume it was the source , especially considering its proximity to the oil. I had noticed the loss of oil and was thinking maybe oil seals . Now I am hoping it also was the result of a leak in  the turbo . Hope that is not just hopeful thinking .
Happy Thanksgiving,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Nov 23, 2017 6:30 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cautionary Turbo Tale

 
Pat,

Please check on what I'm about to write yourself since I'm not much of a mechanic.  

Oil in the Intercooler Air Duct is not necessarily an indication of an oil leak in the Turbo.  On my Yanmar there is a breather tube connected to the valve cover and to the air filter.  The intent is that when pressure in the crankcase increases it is relieved by the breather tube.  Pressure is caused by heat increasing the air pressure inside the crankcase, but mostly from "blow by", which are the gases that leak out of the combustion chamber.  

These gasses contains some hydrocarbons, and instead of letting it drip under the engine the tube directs it to the air intake.  If there is a lot of oil, that's not a good thing.  If there is some evidence of oil streaking, or the intercooler is a bit wet with oi l, that's normal.  The amount of "blow by" is proportional to the condition of the piston rings, valve seats, etc.  A worn out engine will have more "blow by" than a new one.

Of course, it could also be an oil leak in the turbo...

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477

Re: Cautionary Turbo Tale

Duane Siegfri
 

Pat,

Please check on what I'm about to write yourself since I'm not much of a mechanic.  

Oil in the Intercooler Air Duct is not necessarily an indication of an oil leak in the Turbo.  On my Yanmar there is a breather tube connected to the valve cover and to the air filter.  The intent is that when pressure in the crankcase increases it is relieved by the breather tube.  Pressure is caused by heat increasing the air pressure inside the crankcase, but mostly from "blow by", which are the gases that leak out of the combustion chamber.  

These gasses contains some hydrocarbons, and instead of letting it drip under the engine the tube directs it to the air intake.  If there is a lot of oil, that's not a good thing.  If there is some evidence of oil streaking, or the intercooler is a bit wet with oil, that's normal.  The amount of "blow by" is proportional to the condition of the piston rings, valve seats, etc.  A worn out engine will have more "blow by" than a new one.

Of course, it could also be an oil leak in the turbo...

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477

Re: Amel 54 Corrosion

Arno Luijten
 

Dear Group,

Thanks for all responses. It seems to prove the principle of "use it or loose it" is very much valid for Amels as well.
The Amel we've looked at has seen very little usage, less then 600 motor hours.
As a result the interior looks very good but the technical installations are not in great shape.
So my guess is that buying such a yacht would take a lot of effort to get effort to get back in shape with substantial costs associated.
At present the price does not reflect this as far a I can tell. As usual the broker tries to downplay the problems but I would expect him to do so. However our funds are limited and we cannot afford a money-pit other then  a yacht in good shape already is.

We will need to take look at other Amels for finding our new cruising-home.

Thanks again.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Cautionary Turbo Tale

Mark Erdos
 

Pat,

 

So glad you are able to escape relatively cheap. This is wise advice. I guess this is why surgical staff count the sponges in the OR.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – St Lucia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 8:34 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Cautionary Turbo Tale

 

 

Several months ago my engine lost performance , it would not exceed 1800 rpm. I have a Volvo TMD 22A and normally could get it up to 3000 rpm. I discovered that the turbine did not spin easily and assumed it was the result of running it slowly and a build up of carbon. Today , I took the turbo off and brought it home , while trying to explain how a turbo works to my wife and pointing to where the air enters the turbo , she innocently asked me, Is that supposed to be there? When I looked , I could not believe it, there was a tightly wound  wad of paper towel sucked tightly up against the turbine. I don't know how any air got passed it. I must have left a paper towel in the engine room and it got sucked up through the filter , which is not a proper filter at all . There is a black plastic housing in where I would expect a filter to be , but it is empty . I will now place a wide mesh screen over the opening. This explains the gray smoke , and some black smoke I never had before , not enough air. I also discovered oil in the tube connected to the intake manifold , not good , I assume the turbo has a bad seal . Needless to say, its going in  for a rebuild. So keep track of those paper towels , and save your turbo !

Happy Thanksgiving Pilgrims ,

Pat & Diane,

SM Shenanigans

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Perkins M 4.154 repairs

Warren Traill
 

It was rebuilt in Langkawi by Zainol who has since passed away unfortunately.

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 November 2017 12:14 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Perkins M 4.154 repairs

 

 

Hi Warren and Zetta,  Did you get it rebuit in Thailand?  Interested in recommendation on Good Mechanic.