Date   

Re: Switch to LiFePO4

karkauai
 

Interesting Oliver,
What sizes 400 AHr battery? Can they fit in our battery box?
Do you have a recommendation for a brand you think is high quality?

Thanks,
Kent

On Aug 13, 2020 1:35 PM, "Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica" <oliver.henrichsen@...> wrote:
Hi,

In the long run it is even more advisable to abandon the traditional car batterie style and take one 24 volt 400, 500 or 600Ah lithium batterie instead building it up from 12 or 24 volt sections. 

I would prefer a central based BMS controller supervising the hole batterie at once, not packages without com port where one cell does not know what the other does. 

And you should look at the guaranteed capacity. Means this battleborn has only 90% capacity, according to their discharge graph. In my eyes thats a hint for low quality? 
A good quality batterie, with good chemistry inside, will guarantee 100 to 108% capacity.

There is no "drop in batterie" that is misleading because in the end you need to setup all the electronics, chargers, BMS aso. to lithium. That is the real change. Not in what plastic case the cells are packed.

Oliver from Vela Nautica 
A54#39 
Martinique 





On Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 07:21 Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Battle  Born was not very explicit about it in the Zoom meeting last week but in the long run it is very much advisable to use the 24 volt units instead of the 12 volt units. 

Using 24 volt units makes sure you will balance cells across 24 volts instead of 2 x 12 volt leaving a potential unbalance between the two 12 volt banks.
For capacity the answer is simple, as much as you wallet can last. You will always find ways to spend the available capacity in the end, so more is better. 

For your chargers you will need to investigate if you can set them to the exact same charging parameters. That may be difficult.
Also think about your charging regime. Again Battle Born was not very explicit about this but if you boat is connected to shore power for extended periods, you should lower your float voltage to reduce the state of charge to 70-80%. This can be difficult to achieve if you have several charge sources as this means adjusting it very precisely, up to tenths of volts accurate.
I did not like the way Battle Born played down this issue but Lithium batteries do not like to be kept at 100% charge level for extended periods. Even Tesla has extended logic in their battery management to handle this issue. So when Battle Born claims it has superior cells that do not suffer from this problem, I’m skeptical.

Just my 2 cents....

Regards,
Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121



Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

 

Mark, from my book:
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 2:05 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

Bill,

 

Is this a piece of foam – about 2-3” -  attached with a tie to the cable? It’s hard to tell.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 8:35 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

 

Mark, I posted a photo (not a good one) earlier in this thread.

image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 1:23 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

If someone could please post a picture of the foam, this would be very helpful to me.

 

I will soon be replacing the Antenna (main mast), cables and VHF. I plan to thread the new cable from the top of the mast attaching it to the old cable while it is removed. If I can, I would like to keep the foam. I think I could add this as the new cable is being inserted but it is unclear how the foam is attached.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us


Re: 175A alternator belts

Alan Leslie
 

The belts are A section, Yanmar number is 25132-004600, generic A46.

I have found that Dayco cogged belts last longer than standard V-belts. The dual belts on the LN 175A alternator and the single belt for the waterpump and 12 v alterntaor are the same size on the standard Amel set up.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Onan shuts down under load without shutdown codes

Thomas Kleman
 

Impeccable timing on your circumnav- we are stuck in Hawaii now waiting......had a new shutdown just last night. The AC water pump capacitor caused a genset shutdown at what should have been about 3 KW.....and gave me the wrong code as well. Please post when you discover the solution. I'm sure this will happen to us.

Tom and Kirstin
SM 2K 422
L'ORIENT
Hanalei Bay, Kauia


Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

Annsofie & Jonas Svanberg
 

Yes, it is.
/Ann-Sofie S/Y Lady Annila, SM232, 1998.


Skickat från min iPhone

13 aug. 2020 kl. 21:05 skrev Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...>:



Bill,

 

Is this a piece of foam – about 2-3” -  attached with a tie to the cable? It’s hard to tell.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 8:35 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

 

Mark, I posted a photo (not a good one) earlier in this thread.

<image001.png>

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 1:23 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

If someone could please post a picture of the foam, this would be very helpful to me.

 

I will soon be replacing the Antenna (main mast), cables and VHF. I plan to thread the new cable from the top of the mast attaching it to the old cable while it is removed. If I can, I would like to keep the foam. I think I could add this as the new cable is being inserted but it is unclear how the foam is attached.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us


Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

Mark Erdos
 

Bill,

 

Is this a piece of foam – about 2-3” -  attached with a tie to the cable? It’s hard to tell.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 8:35 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

 

Mark, I posted a photo (not a good one) earlier in this thread.

image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 1:23 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

If someone could please post a picture of the foam, this would be very helpful to me.

 

I will soon be replacing the Antenna (main mast), cables and VHF. I plan to thread the new cable from the top of the mast attaching it to the old cable while it is removed. If I can, I would like to keep the foam. I think I could add this as the new cable is being inserted but it is unclear how the foam is attached.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us


Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

Paul Osterberg
 

If you can't keep the foam, one can attache cable ties to the cable and keep +/-5 cm of it, a few cable ties every 30-40 cm will take away most of the noice as it prevents the cable to dangle against the mast tube.
Paul on sykerpa SM 259 Portugal 


Re: Switch to LiFePO4

karkauai
 

Thanks to all for your advice. Where would you set float on your alternator, Elja? I have a separate controller, so I can set float where ever I want it.

Kent

On Aug 13, 2020 1:14 PM, Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222 <Bijorka@...> wrote:

Yes, and you should cut the altinator  so that batteries are not always loaded in full during a long drive
Elja
SM Balu 222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet





Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

 

Mark, I posted a photo (not a good one) earlier in this thread.
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 1:23 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

If someone could please post a picture of the foam, this would be very helpful to me.

 

I will soon be replacing the Antenna (main mast), cables and VHF. I plan to thread the new cable from the top of the mast attaching it to the old cable while it is removed. If I can, I would like to keep the foam. I think I could add this as the new cable is being inserted but it is unclear how the foam is attached.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us


Re: Switch to LiFePO4

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Then you have to go to Victron , they have a seperate BMS
one for all batteries ,
and then you have all in one hand
Charger/ inverter
Solar regulation
and altinator .

One other question
What happens with the Li Batteries and the BMS
when you take a flshlighit ?

Elja
SM Balu 222


Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

Mark Erdos
 

If someone could please post a picture of the foam, this would be very helpful to me.

 

I will soon be replacing the Antenna (main mast), cables and VHF. I plan to thread the new cable from the top of the mast attaching it to the old cable while it is removed. If I can, I would like to keep the foam. I think I could add this as the new cable is being inserted but it is unclear how the foam is attached.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us


Re: Switch to LiFePO4

Arno Luijten
 

Quote:
"In the long run it is even more advisable to abandon the traditional car batterie style and take one 24 volt 400, 500 or 600Ah lithium batterie instead building it up from 12 or 24 volt sections. "

At first I had the same opinion about this. However I did think this over a bit and now I'm not so sure anymore. The point being that with a set of "autonomous" 24 volt batteries you do build in a level of redundancy. If one of the batteries/BMS-es fails you still have the others left. With one BMS. etc. you create a critical path.

I'm not saying that should be avoided at all costs but it does add food for thought into to the discussion. For me I think this technology is still not fully mature in the marine environment. One way to get around the 70-80% problem is sizing you battery system so you don't need the top 20-30% and can never charge them up to 100%. To do this you need a BMS that can (actively) balance cells at any state of charge. I only found one company that sells those at the moment. It also make LiPo even more expensive.

Cheers,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Onan shuts down under load without shutdown codes

Mark Pitt
 

Hi Tom and Kirstin,

I also have had at least a dozen shutdowns in the 17 years that I have owned Sabbatical III and in every case there was a shutdown code, including shutdowns due to a faulty sensor.  So this is a new one for me.

Having a spare central board is a good idea, although now that our circumnavigation is done, not as crucial.  I heard that they are quite expensive.  My wife and I are only summer livesboards now.

Mark Pitt
SV Sabbatical III, SM419, Rhode Island


On Aug 13, 2020, at 1:09 PM, Thomas Kleman <lorient422@...> wrote:

Hey Mark- your post caught my eye because we are hull #422....,Bill's approach (eliminate sensors one by one) is what we do on L'ORIENT. I'm troubled by the lack of a diagnostic code, though. We've probably had 15-20 genset shutdowns in the 10 years we've owned the boat; never was there no code. Since it's really easy, at some point I'd swap out the central board (if you have one). I think this is a vital spare part to have on a SM because of how much you depend on 220 v (unless you've done a major lithium conversion).

Tom and Kirstin
SM 2K 422
Hanalei Bay, Kauia


Re: Switch to LiFePO4

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hi,

In the long run it is even more advisable to abandon the traditional car batterie style and take one 24 volt 400, 500 or 600Ah lithium batterie instead building it up from 12 or 24 volt sections. 

I would prefer a central based BMS controller supervising the hole batterie at once, not packages without com port where one cell does not know what the other does. 

And you should look at the guaranteed capacity. Means this battleborn has only 90% capacity, according to their discharge graph. In my eyes thats a hint for low quality? 
A good quality batterie, with good chemistry inside, will guarantee 100 to 108% capacity.

There is no "drop in batterie" that is misleading because in the end you need to setup all the electronics, chargers, BMS aso. to lithium. That is the real change. Not in what plastic case the cells are packed.

Oliver from Vela Nautica 
A54#39 
Martinique 





On Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 07:21 Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Battle  Born was not very explicit about it in the Zoom meeting last week but in the long run it is very much advisable to use the 24 volt units instead of the 12 volt units. 

Using 24 volt units makes sure you will balance cells across 24 volts instead of 2 x 12 volt leaving a potential unbalance between the two 12 volt banks.
For capacity the answer is simple, as much as you wallet can last. You will always find ways to spend the available capacity in the end, so more is better. 

For your chargers you will need to investigate if you can set them to the exact same charging parameters. That may be difficult.
Also think about your charging regime. Again Battle Born was not very explicit about this but if you boat is connected to shore power for extended periods, you should lower your float voltage to reduce the state of charge to 70-80%. This can be difficult to achieve if you have several charge sources as this means adjusting it very precisely, up to tenths of volts accurate.
I did not like the way Battle Born played down this issue but Lithium batteries do not like to be kept at 100% charge level for extended periods. Even Tesla has extended logic in their battery management to handle this issue. So when Battle Born claims it has superior cells that do not suffer from this problem, I’m skeptical.

Just my 2 cents....

Regards,
Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Switch to LiFePO4

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Yes, and you should cut the altinator so that batteries are not always loaded in full during a long drive
Elja
SM Balu 222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Re: Onan shuts down under load without shutdown codes

Thomas Kleman
 

Hey Mark- your post caught my eye because we are hull #422....,Bill's approach (eliminate sensors one by one) is what we do on L'ORIENT. I'm troubled by the lack of a diagnostic code, though. We've probably had 15-20 genset shutdowns in the 10 years we've owned the boat; never was there no code. Since it's really easy, at some point I'd swap out the central board (if you have one). I think this is a vital spare part to have on a SM because of how much you depend on 220 v (unless you've done a major lithium conversion).

Tom and Kirstin
SM 2K 422
Hanalei Bay, Kauia


Re: 175A alternator belts

Alan Leslie
 

We have the 175A LN alternator on a Yanmar 4JH3TE with double pulleys on the LN Alternator, and single on the 12V alternator.
All three belts are the same... Dayco cogged belts, no idlers, A section belts
Sorry not on the boat can't give you the specs, but they're probably on file on the site somewhere 
I'll check tomorrow
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: 175A alternator belts

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello,

I got and tested the Optibelt pullys for 90mm discs. 
And to be tightened over their back. 

Did not change anything. Still dust and wear. 

I will switch to serpentine belts. Can' t be worse.

Oliver from Vela Nautica 
A54#39 
Martinique 

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 08:25 ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have adjusted the alignment and it is spot on. 
My theory is that I have been using B section belts (17mm) and the alt pulley has 84mm diameter. (This was what was on the boat when I bought her in 2017.) and  according to belt specs The minimum diameter pulley should be 112mm.
Now Optibelt do a 17mm B section belt that can cope with 90mm pulley. I have ordered a pair but that is still larger than my 83mm.
If my theory is correct then I will have to machine the pulleys to accept 13mm belts such that they do not bottom out as 13mm belts can cope with smaller pulley diameters. 
Alternatively get a 112mm pulley for the alternator but then pulley ratio will be close to 2:1 not 3:1
Or switch to a serpentine belt which involve new pulleys for both alternator and the engine.

So my first port of call is to find out what pulleys other Amel owners are using.
Nick
Amelia AML54-019
Simi Greece

On 13 Aug 2020, at 15:09, Bill Hall <billhall95688@...> wrote:


Hi Nick

Have you checked the pully alignment?  Miss alignment will cause excessive belt wear

Hope this helps

Bill Hall
Looking to own an Amel

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 3:24 AM ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

The saga goes on. The belts for my 24v Leece Neville 175a alternator do not last and produce dust.
So I have been scratching my head....and coming to some conclusions....

 But before I go on can someone with the 175a 24v twin belt pulley set up let me know what pulley diameters you are using and what width belt and if you use cogged belt with the idlers or not?
Nick
S/Y Amelia
Simi Greece
AML54-019




Re: 175A alternator belts

ngtnewington Newington
 

I have adjusted the alignment and it is spot on. 
My theory is that I have been using B section belts (17mm) and the alt pulley has 84mm diameter. (This was what was on the boat when I bought her in 2017.) and  according to belt specs The minimum diameter pulley should be 112mm.
Now Optibelt do a 17mm B section belt that can cope with 90mm pulley. I have ordered a pair but that is still larger than my 83mm.
If my theory is correct then I will have to machine the pulleys to accept 13mm belts such that they do not bottom out as 13mm belts can cope with smaller pulley diameters. 
Alternatively get a 112mm pulley for the alternator but then pulley ratio will be close to 2:1 not 3:1
Or switch to a serpentine belt which involve new pulleys for both alternator and the engine.

So my first port of call is to find out what pulleys other Amel owners are using.
Nick
Amelia AML54-019
Simi Greece

On 13 Aug 2020, at 15:09, Bill Hall <billhall95688@...> wrote:


Hi Nick

Have you checked the pully alignment?  Miss alignment will cause excessive belt wear

Hope this helps

Bill Hall
Looking to own an Amel

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 3:24 AM ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

The saga goes on. The belts for my 24v Leece Neville 175a alternator do not last and produce dust.
So I have been scratching my head....and coming to some conclusions....

 But before I go on can someone with the 175a 24v twin belt pulley set up let me know what pulley diameters you are using and what width belt and if you use cogged belt with the idlers or not?
Nick
S/Y Amelia
Simi Greece
AML54-019




Re: 175A alternator belts

Bill Hall
 

Hi Nick

Have you checked the pully alignment?  Miss alignment will cause excessive belt wear

Hope this helps

Bill Hall
Looking to own an Amel

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 3:24 AM ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

The saga goes on. The belts for my 24v Leece Neville 175a alternator do not last and produce dust.
So I have been scratching my head....and coming to some conclusions....

 But before I go on can someone with the 175a 24v twin belt pulley set up let me know what pulley diameters you are using and what width belt and if you use cogged belt with the idlers or not?
Nick
S/Y Amelia
Simi Greece
AML54-019