Date   

Re: changing cockpit cover installation from old Super Maramu to SM2K

philipp.sollberger@...
 

Dear Ann-Sofie,

Yes there is a big difference. Precisely for tall people is the SM2K Cockpit cover installation. On the old SM the cockpit cover is parallel to the cockpit protection triangle and tall people will have to bend themselves if they don't want to risk hitting their head on the inox tubes of the cockpit cover.

For this I wood like to have the dimensions of the inox tubes of a SM2K.

Fair winds,

Philipp


Re: Elongated hole on conical coupling

greatketch@...
 

I do not know what the factory originally did on my boat.  Those bolts have been pulled out and reinstalled several times with the installation of new engine mounts, alignments and other maintenance procedures. If somebody was paying attention to details (and Harmonie's previous owners were very good at that) they replaced at least the washers, and likely the nuts and bolts each time. They may, or may not, have been put back in the original configuration.

I do not understand exactly what your local dealer is proposing to do, but there are a great many good solutions to keeping these connections tight.  There could be long arguments about which is the "best," but there are many solutions that I'd be happy with, probably including some I haven't seen before.  

Remember, pretty much every boat has a connection like this between prop shaft and transmission.  Keeping them connected is not a new problem, or one unique to the Amel drive train.  In fact, you could make a good argument that the Amel C-Drive presents a much easier problem because the loads are lower and more controlled than with a standard prop shaft.

If you put these bolts on your regular maintenance schedule and check them for tightness after the first 10 hours, and after that at least every 50 to 100 engine hours, you'll be good to go.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <svperegrinus@...> wrote :

Hello Craig and all others,

Many, many thanks for all the valuable input.

Regarding the possibility of the nuts coming loose, yesterday the Yanmar dealer told me they are creating "a washer" (via an outsourced turner).  I am sure there is a language barrier + my lack of mechanical engineering knowledge.

But if I understand correctly, this will be some sort of one disc that they will insert after the four nuts have been tightened, and this will prevent the four nuts from working themselves loose.

My main concern is that if the solution were so simple and obvious, why wouldn't the factory had implemented it?

Cheers,

Peregrinus
SM2K #350 (2002)


Re: Elongated hole on conical coupling

greatketch@...
 




---In amelyachtowners@..., <svperegrinus@...> wrote :

Hello Craig and all others,

Many, many thanks for all the valuable input.

Regarding the possibility of the nuts coming loose, yesterday the Yanmar dealer told me they are creating "a washer" (via an outsourced turner).  I am sure there is a language barrier + my lack of mechanical engineering knowledge.

But if I understand correctly, this will be some sort of one disc that they will insert after the four nuts have been tightened, and this will prevent the four nuts from working themselves loose.

My main concern is that if the solution were so simple and obvious, why wouldn't the factory had implemented it?

Cheers,

Peregrinus
SM2K #350 (2002)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Transmission problem,

 

That is the propeller shaft brake. When the engine is running, transmission oil pressure opens and releases the brake pads from the disk.

With the engine off, the brake pads close against the disk and stop the prop shaft from turning. 
Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 06:06 arthur@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

You see the cylinder in center of picture which is fastened with black straps. The thumlike thing on top seemed like stopped working in and out. But after sailing for 6 hours we started the motor and all was normal. What job Does the cylinder do?

Thanks for answering
Arthur. Sundqvist

Vista. SM 435


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Transmission problem, [1 Attachment]

Arthur Sundqvist
 

You see the cylinder in center of picture which is fastened with black straps. The thumlike thing on top seemed like stopped working in and out. But after sailing for 6 hours we started the motor and all was normal. What job Does the cylinder do?

Thanks for answering
Arthur. Sundqvist

Vista. SM 435


Re: Elongated hole on conical coupling

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Hello Craig and all others,

Many, many thanks for all the valuable input.

Regarding the possibility of the nuts coming loose, yesterday the Yanmar dealer told me they are creating "a washer" (via an outsourced turner).  I am sure there is a language barrier + my lack of mechanical engineering knowledge.

But if I understand correctly, this will be some sort of one disc that they will insert after the four nuts have been tightened, and this will prevent the four nuts from working themselves loose.

My main concern is that if the solution were so simple and obvious, why wouldn't the factory had implemented it?

Cheers,

Peregrinus
SM2K #350 (2002)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Elongated hole on conical coupling

greatketch@...
 

Craig and James,

Absolutely! Loose coupling bolts can do the same thing. I should have thought of that!

I'll add two more things to the excellent list of solutions that James posted: A second "jam" nut works well--if there is room. I have also taken a punch to the threads where they disappear into the nut.  This doesn't work with nylock nuts, but with regular nuts and lockwashers it adds a significant extra measure of security.

On my old boat the bolts actually threaded into the prop shaft flange, so no nuts.  The bolt heads were drilled across the flats, and then wired to prevent backing out.

Nothing replaces checking on a regular basis.  

In addition to drive train fasteners, the others I have had chronic problems with on every boat have been in the steering system.  The irregular, reversing, loads make it tough to keep everything tight. Again, nothing is more important than checking regularly.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Elongated hole on conical coupling

James Alton
 

Craig,

   I agree with your post.  I have also found that it is not uncommon to find loose coupling bolts and agree this is something to check on a regular basis.  I have had good results using Nylocs in addition to a good lock washer for coupling bolts.  For applications where the longer nylocs are a problem,  I use the red Loctite in addition to a good (new and sharp) lock washer.  If I encounter any difficulty removing the bolts due to the Loctite, the application of heat via a hot air paint stripper gun works wonders.

Best,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Aug 1, 2018, at 2:28 PM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I'd add  a fifth cause to Bill's excellent list, namely, the nuts having come loose. I've seen that on three boats, one with a nut actually missing. It's a good routine check to make and easily done.
Craig, SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

I would have no problem drilling one set of new holes in the flange.  If that bothers you at all, machining a new flange would be an easy job for any machine shop and would not be very expensive.

Based on the damage I see, it looks like the holes in the flange were quite a bit too big for the bolts used.  When this is done, two things happen. The metal of the flange is "point loaded" by the bolt, and the two flanges rotate relative to each other slightly when the transmission is shifted.  This result s in an impact of the bolt against the flange, which pushes metal aside every time the transmission is shifted, resulting in exactly the kind of damage you see.  The more the hole is enlarged, the further the bolt moves when shifting and the harder the impact. You can see where this story goes...

Larger holes than appropriate happen for one of four reasons.  The manufacturer wasn't confident of alignment, so gave some extra "wiggle room." Or, there was a mismatch of specifications between two different manufacturers. Or, the flange was sourced from third party stock parts without attention to such niggling details.  Or, a bolt was used without paying attention to the proper size. I vote for option three!

You should have a what a machinist calls a "clearance fit" on the bolts and holes. This minimizes the relative rotation of the the flanges during shifting, and spreads the load of the bo lt across as large an arc as possible. 

If at all feasible, the guy doing the drilling should have the mating flange as well so he can be absolutely sure of alignment. These need to be very carefully aligned. In the absence of a  documented specification (check the transmission manual...), I'd look for a relative runout of no more than 0.002" 

Also, it is best (although not always easily arranged!) if the bolts used are unthreaded where they go through the flange to spread the load across as wide an area of metal as possible.  

Good luck!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Elongated hole on conical coupling

hanspeter baettig
 

Hi Bill Kinney
Intersting feedback about your tecnical knowhow, but nowbody answere his question. Why this e longated hole can happen ?
regards
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
on the way to Capo Verde
SM16


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 01.08.2018 um 18:06 schrieb greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

I would have no problem drilling one set of new holes in the flange.  If that bothers you at all, machining a new flange would be an easy job for any machine shop and would not be very expensive.


Based on the damage I see, it looks like the holes in the flange were quite a bit too big for the bolts used.  When this is done, two things happen. The metal of the flange is "point loaded" by the bolt, and the two flanges rotate relative to each other slightly when the transmission is shifted.  This results in an impact of the bolt against the flange, which pushes metal aside every time the transmission is shifted, resulting in exactly the kind of damage you see.  The more the hole is enlarged, the further the bolt moves when shifting and the harder the impact. You can see where this story goes...

Larger holes than appropriate happen for one of four reasons.  The manufacturer wasn't confident of ali gnment, so gave some extra "wiggle room." Or, there was a mismatch of specifications between two different manufacturers. Or, the flange was sourced from third party stock parts without attention to such niggling details.  Or, a bolt was used without paying attention to the proper size. I vote for option three!

You should have a what a machinist calls a "clearance fit" on the bolts and holes. This minimizes the relative rotation of the the flanges during shifting, and spreads the load of the bolt across as large an arc as possible. 

If at all feasible, the guy doing the drilling should have the mating flange as well so he can be absolutely sure of alignment. These need to be very carefully aligned. In the absence of a  documented specification (check the transmission manual...), I'd look for a relative runout of no more than 0.002" 

Also, it is best (although no t always easily arranged!) if the bolts used are unthreaded where they go through the flange to spread the load across as wide an area of metal as possible.  

Good luck!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Steering Failure on “Aloha” SM72

Stephen Davis
 

I want to thank everyone who helped diagnose our steering problems, and let you all know the final outcome. After our complete steering failure from Panama to Hawaii due to broken teeth in both steering racks, we assumed that replacement of both racks and pinion/steering shaft would resolve the problem, but that proved not to be the case. We have now replaced both steering cables, and our steering perfect.

When we removed the steering cables from the boat and racks, we found that one cable worked smoothly by hand, and the other was nearly impossible to move. We inspected the bad cable externally, and found no sign of any damage. When I get time, I’ll attempt to cut the sheath off the cable, and determine what actually failed. Once the new cables were installed in the boat, the steering was smoother than it has ever been, and we have the required 1.5 turns in each direction.

When we first replaced the racks and pinion, I couldn’t imagine we had a problem with the cables, as they look incredibly robust. We learned a lesson on this one, and if anyone suspects a problem with their steering, I’d recommend replacement of all components. The cables and racks are made by Ultraflex of Italy, and can be supplied by Amel for about $1200 plus shipping. That price also includes a new pinion. Our pinion was in serviceable condition, but we did not want to mate the
new racks with a slightly worn pinion. If you have an older hull number like ours, you will probably find the original Ultraflex cables are M41 23 FT, and the new cables supplied will be M61 25FT. They appear to be the same cables except the new ones are 2’ longer and have a different style adjustment nut near the quadrant. I suspect sometime not to long after hull 72, Amel decided that a 2’ longer cable made for a slightly smoother cable run. Also, the end pieces that screw onto the cables and then insert into the racks were originally of a plastic material. At some point in production, Amel started manufacturing a metal end piece, and changing them out in the racks supplied by Ultraflex. We were able to buy the end pieces from Amel for about $50 each, and replace the ones provided with our new racks. If you have an older SM with the plastic end pieces, it would not be a bad idea to change them.

We could not find a lot of good information on the forum regarding how to take the steering apart. The first time we changed the racks and pinion was a bit of a learning curve. By the third time we completely removed the steering from the boat to change the cables, we were fairly good at it. It is not a bad job once you know what you are doing, and we could now easily remove the entire steering system from the boat and reinstall in a day. Removing the cables requires at least 2 people. I’ll try and write something up and post it when I have time. Anyone with a fairly old hull number that has seen a lot of sea miles should consider replacing their steering. We had convinced ourselves the steering would last forever, but learned the hard way, that is not the case. My other recommendation is while on a nice day sail, rig your emergency steering, and see how it works. You will find the boat actually fun to steer with the tiller, and it would be nice to know you have all the parts available, and know how to put it together.

On another note, Liz and I are the OCC Port Officers for Hawaii, and for anyone considering sailing here, please contact us, and we can provide you some useful information. Thanks again for the help in diagnosing our problem, and now we are going sailing.

Best Regards,

Steve and Liz Davis
Aloha SM 72
Ko Olina, Hawaii


Re: Elongated hole on conical coupling

Craig Briggs
 


I'd add  a fifth cause to Bill's excellent list, namely, the nuts having come loose. I've seen that on three boats, one with a nut actually missing. It's a good routine check to make and easily done.
Craig, SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <greatketch@...> wrote :

I would have no problem drilling one set of new holes in the flange.  If that bothers you at all, machining a new flange would be an easy job for any machine shop and would not be very expensive.

Based on the damage I see, it looks like the holes in the flange were quite a bit too big for the bolts used.  When this is done, two things happen. The metal of the flange is "point loaded" by the bolt, and the two flanges rotate relative to each other slightly when the transmission is shifted.  This results in an impact of the bolt against the flange, which pushes metal aside every time the transmission is shifted, resulting in exactly the kind of damage you see.  The more the hole is enlarged, the further the bolt moves when shifting and the harder the impact. You can see where this story goes...

Larger holes than appropriate happen for one of four reasons.  The manufacturer wasn't confident of alignment, so gave some extra "wiggle room." Or, there was a mismatch of specifications between two different manufacturers. Or, the flange was sourced from third party stock parts without attention to such niggling details.  Or, a bolt was used without paying attention to the proper size. I vote for option three!

You should have a what a machinist calls a "clearance fit" on the bolts and holes. This minimizes the relative rotation of the the flanges during shifting, and spreads the load of the bolt across as large an arc as possible. 

If at all feasible, the guy doing the drilling should have the mating flange as well so he can be absolutely sure of alignment. These need to be very carefully aligned. In the absence of a  documented specification (check the transmission manual...), I'd look for a relative runout of no more than 0.002" 

Also, it is best (although not always easily arranged!) if the bolts used are unthreaded where they go through the flange to spread the load across as wide an area of metal as possible.  

Good luck!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: Elongated hole on conical coupling

greatketch@...
 

I would have no problem drilling one set of new holes in the flange.  If that bothers you at all, machining a new flange would be an easy job for any machine shop and would not be very expensive.

Based on the damage I see, it looks like the holes in the flange were quite a bit too big for the bolts used.  When this is done, two things happen. The metal of the flange is "point loaded" by the bolt, and the two flanges rotate relative to each other slightly when the transmission is shifted.  This results in an impact of the bolt against the flange, which pushes metal aside every time the transmission is shifted, resulting in exactly the kind of damage you see.  The more the hole is enlarged, the further the bolt moves when shifting and the harder the impact. You can see where this story goes...

Larger holes than appropriate happen for one of four reasons.  The manufacturer wasn't confident of alignment, so gave some extra "wiggle room." Or, there was a mismatch of specifications between two different manufacturers. Or, the flange was sourced from third party stock parts without attention to such niggling details.  Or, a bolt was used without paying attention to the proper size. I vote for option three!

You should have a what a machinist calls a "clearance fit" on the bolts and holes. This minimizes the relative rotation of the the flanges during shifting, and spreads the load of the bolt across as large an arc as possible. 

If at all feasible, the guy doing the drilling should have the mating flange as well so he can be absolutely sure of alignment. These need to be very carefully aligned. In the absence of a  documented specification (check the transmission manual...), I'd look for a relative runout of no more than 0.002" 

Also, it is best (although not always easily arranged!) if the bolts used are unthreaded where they go through the flange to spread the load across as wide an area of metal as possible.  

Good luck!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Plastimo water outlet Amel 54

webercardio <webercardio@...>
 

Dear Alex and Thomas,
Thank you very much. I will buy a new part as the German Plastimo had no Information about service of this outlet. After changing I will try to open the old one and let you know.Back on boat end of August.
Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54#162



Re: The mistery slick

greatketch@...
 


Great to hear that the problem was one of the less expensive possibilities!

A good lesson to remember in diagnosis:  If there is oil in the exhaust it MIGHT be coming from oil or fuel in the engine exhaust, but it also could be coming from oil leaking into the raw cooling water.

Using my best 20/20 hindsight:  Collect a sample of the raw water coming out of the anti-syphon vent.  This is water that has gone through all of the engine cooling circuit, but not yet mixed with exhaust gases.  The presence (or absence!) of oil there can be an important clue in tracking down the source of the problem.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

---In amelyachtowners@..., <svperegrinus@...> wrote :

I would like to thank all who responded, but in particular Jeffrey Kaus and Bill Kinney and Trevor Lusty: you were in the right track.  Failed oil cooler.

However, the transmission oil cooler by www.ejbowman.co.uk came out OK....

... the problem was the Yanmar 100 HP turbo's oil cooler.  Had to get a new one for $1606 + VAT (parts only).

To test both oil coolers, they warm them up to 75°C or so and then inject compressed air.  Then they look for air bubbles.

For those with oil in the water but no smoke/engine performance issues, check this first.

Regards,

Peregrinus
SM2K Nr. 350 (2002)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Plastimo water outlet Amel 54

Alex Ramseyer <alexramseyer@...>
 

Dear Thomas, Wolfgang,
I just had a look and it is the elbow unit that you want to order.
Best regards,
Alex Ramseyer 
Amel54, NO STRESS

Am Di., Juli 31, 2018 at 9:44 schrieb 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]
:
 

Hi Wolfgang,

Unfortunately I can’t answer your question as we are not in the boat, but I’m interested in the answer as ours is dripping too!

So maybe another 54 owner can have a quick look inside the cockpit locker to answer your question?

Incidentally we are in Hyères, but you say only your boat is there? We’ll go to the marina to say hi to the Amel bunch, let us know if you need a check on Elyse! 

Thomas
away from 
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 at 18:10, webercardio webercardio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello to the group, 
My plastimo wateroutlet in the Cockpit is dripping. Did anyone service this outlet?
I am not on the boat, so I have to know for replacement if it is Plastimo water outlet with straight (62029) or elbow (62030) terminals. 
Thank you very much Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54 #162 Hyeres







Re: Finally a real forum member

Arno Luijten
 

Hi All,

We have now taken our new pride to Curacao, she is lying safely at the dock of Curacao Marine in good company of another 54 and a Sharky.
Our "maidenvoyage" went very well, it took us 72 hours to get from Martinique to Curacao. Now a long list of things to do awaits us to bring Luna back to her former glory. But I cannot wait to get started.
So I will be on at the boat quite frequently, anyone that want to pay us a visit there is more then welcome.

Regards,

Arno


Re: Elongated hole on conical coupling

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

I had included a picture but it is nowhere to be seen, so I attach it again. 


Re: The mistery slick

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

I would like to thank all who responded, but in particular Jeffrey Kaus and Bill Kinney and Trevor Lusty: you were in the right track.  Failed oil cooler.

However, the transmission oil cooler by www.ejbowman.co.uk came out OK....

... the problem was the Yanmar 100 HP turbo's oil cooler.  Had to get a new one for $1606 + VAT (parts only).

To test both oil coolers, they warm them up to 75°C or so and then inject compressed air.  Then they look for air bubbles.

For those with oil in the water but no smoke/engine performance issues, check this first.

Regards,

Peregrinus
SM2K Nr. 350 (2002)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Transmission problem, [1 Attachment]

Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

Have you check so you don't have anything in the propeller?

/Ann-Sofie
S/Y Lady Annila, SM232

Skickat från min iPad

30 juli 2018 kl. 20:07 skrev Anna Eriksson anna@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

There is something wrong in the transmissionbox. Se photo.
And the motor is vibrating more than before it happened. I am now driving on 1800... How sirious is this???
From my wifes telefon
Arthur. Sundqvist
Vista. SM 435








Elongated hole on conical coupling

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

While re-aligning engine to C-Drive, one hole was found elongated. As the part is not available, the Yanmar dealer proposes drilling new holes, which sounds reasonable, but it'd be nice to know if the consensus is that the part will remain strong enough/will continue to have enough metal to absorb whatever heat it is designed to absorb.


Also, what caused this? Thanks in advance,


Peregrinus
SM2K N. 350 (2002)

17501 - 17520 of 58566