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Re: Repower questions
greatketch@...
Dave,
Thanks for the reference. I have looked at--and dismissed--the Beta Marine engine. It is a good engine, and I know the West Coast distributer from my days in SF. As you say they are good guys. The problem is that their 75HP engine is not turbocharged. That in and of itself really appeals, for lots of reasons. BUT.... that means the engine weighs 400 or 500 pounds more that the turbo equivalents. That is just much more dead weight than I will consider adding to the boat. I'll live with the added complexity and maintenance of the turbo for a half inch of waterline sink! I am in no rush, and this is not something that will happen quickly. Lots of research yet to do. If I had to do it today, I would use a Volvo D2. But, fortunately, I don't have to. Just want to have all the pieces in place so I can move quickly if I end up needing to. Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Annapolis, MD, USA ---In amelyachtowners@..., <dave_benjamin@...> wrote : Bill, One of our west coast Amel sail clients repowered with a Beta Marine. He also considered a Yanmar. Beta was a much easier retrofit than the Yanmar would have been according to what he told me. And the staff at the Beta distributor was quite helpful. If you want to speak with him directly I can ask him if he is okay with me sharing his email address.
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Re: Repower questions
Miles
Yes, it has an isolated ground. Unfortunately, I didn’t know about the ground until after the engine was installed and then Volvo didn’t want to send the parts to me because their lawyers said not too. Finally, a Volvo person send the list of every needed part to me. I ordered the parts separately from Volvo and now I have an isolated engine. Again, too late smart. Regards, Miles
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Re: Repower questions
Dave_Benjamin
Bill, One of our west coast Amel sail clients repowered with a Beta Marine. He also considered a Yanmar. Beta was a much easier retrofit than the Yanmar would have been according to what he told me. And the staff at the Beta distributor was quite helpful. If you want to speak with him directly I can ask him if he is okay with me sharing his email address.
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Re: heat exchanger
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
---------- Original Message ----------
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Heat Exchanger [2 Attachments]
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Again Pat. That second photo is the same set up from my previous boat. It works well. Regards Danny
On 03 June 2018 at 03:55 "john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heat Exchanger
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi again Pat. I am chasing this thread from behind. The rubber boot you describe is exactly what I had on the Volvo in my previous boat and is a kosher system. Do not use silicone. Just check the clamps periodically to keep them tight. Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 03 June 2018 at 00:59 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Repower questions
Miles, Does it have an isolated ground? Best, CW Bill Rouse Admiral, Texas Navy Commander Emeritus Amel School http://www.amelschool.com 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 6:33 PM, 'Miles Bidwell' milesbid@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thruster Rusted Shut
Steve, You also had a period of time before it broke loose...remember the ingredient that I stressed: Patience?😀 Best, CW Bill Rouse Admiral, Texas Navy Commander Emeritus Amel School http://www.amelschool.com 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 2:02 PM, steve@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: Repower questions
Miles
Hi Bill,
I repowered with the Volvo D2-75 about a year ago. I am very pleased with the engine. It has the same horse power but more torque, and uses the same transmission and prop.
Regards,
Miles s/y Ladybug, les Saintes,
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Heat Exchanger [2 Attachments]
John Clark
Hi Pat, yes we were repowered in 2002.
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Re: Bow Thruster Rusted Shut
SUCCESS!! THANKS FOR ALL THE GREAT COMMENTS, THOUGHTS, AND ENCOURAGEMENT!!
Chris n Jaygo, you were right. I had a tool made base on the picture Mark Erdos shared the link for. Still it took over five hours of work to get that out after days for soaking. Unfortunately, I could not find the penetrating fluid mentioned by Ryan Meador or Dennis Johns, but it soaked in WD-40 for days. This is my second successful use of WD-40 as a penetrating fluid. Anyway, it was super hard, time consuming and frustrating! Had to keep wiping the tube down with Acetone to clean the lube off before fitting the collar, otherwise, it would just slip down the tube. In the end, it was the hammering on the collar once attached that got it going. Folks that have not serviced their bow thruster by removing the tube from the motor and think that it may be rusted up: word up -- it could be in there solid and it's going to be a big job getting it out. 1. Have someone make this tool. Make sure that the fit is precise (60mm) because you are going to end up banging on that collar with some force and if the tool does not fit perfectly, you might crack the tube. I emailed Amel and they said that they do NOT have this tool. 2. Go get yourself the best penetrating penetrating known to man. 3. Plan on several days to more than a week of soaking with penetrating fluid. 4. Get a good hammer and a huge punch. I used the socket on a long extension and put it on the bolt of the collar and wailed away. I think that was what ultimately broke it free initially. Lateral force. Then banging down on the collar. 5. Once you get some movement, add more penetrating fluid and give it another couple of days. I'll put this all together in a video once I'm finished with this project on https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC46jj7mfMh767QkQiNV0LIw Steve Bode SV Intention Port Ginesta, Spain Facebook.com/svintention
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Re: Bow Thruster Rusted Shut
Well Bill, we used all the first three and then went to #4 -- brute force. That did the trick. BAH -- Big Ass Hammer! It was okay, because the collar that I had made was a perfect fit. Anything else and one would likely destroy that tube.
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Heat Exchanger [2 Attachments]
Patrick McAneny
John, I have the one to the right, looks to be an older version. If you have the newer version ,then you are probably wondering what I was referring to about rubber caps . Looks like a better design than what I have. Was your engine replaced , because my boat is newer and yet has what looks to be an older designed engine.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Thanks,
Pat SM#123
-----Original Message----- From: john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] To: amelyachtowners Sent: Sat, Jun 2, 2018 11:56 am Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Heat Exchanger [2 Attachments]
[Attachment(s) from john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] included below]
Hi Pat, I just saw a picture of a different version of the TAMD22, is this the setup you have? My engine is the other photo.
John
SV Annie SM37
USVI
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Re: Volvo D3-110 won't start - instruments won't even light up?
ESTELLER
Hi Bill AND SCOTT. I do not know how to use the site amelyachtowners@... that's why I'm sending you this message regarding SCOTT's problem 1- At CORFU GOUVIA there is an excellent VOLVO agent who is very competent and very reasonably priced. I make him do my big services on my D3 110 when I go to Gouvia 2-Two years ago my engine stopped in the open Ionian Sea, and he could not restart it. A few hours before I had a warning message: "fuel service needed" on the EVC, but I did not do anything. I changed the fuel filter and the engine restarted, while like that of SCOTT he did not want to restart (the starter was not running either) Maybe what I tell you might be useful to SCOTT Regards José AMEL 54 ORION
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Re: Heat Exchanger
John Clark
Hi Pat, I just saw a picture of a different version of the TAMD22, is this the setup you have? My engine is the other photo.
John SV Annie SM37 USVI
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Pump out of black water
VLADIMIR SONSEV
Kent, The simplest way I just open pumpout cove and look. Vladimir SM 345 LIFE IS GOOD
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heat Exchanger
Patrick McAneny
John, I was just on the boat and forgot to look at the manual, I got involved trying to get the thermostat off , nuts frozen ,Corrosion X on the job. Your attachment did not come through. I think the end caps are original , the question is how do they seal , only with the pressure of the SS. clamps . Orings were mentioned, I don't have any, and don't know where they would be placed if I had them. Fortunately, its only a five minute commute from my house to my boat, I will run back out and have a look at the manual ,although it is a very poor manual,little detail. Thanks for confirming it is a Perkins 4-108
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Pat
SM#123
-----Original Message----- From: john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] To: amelyachtowners Sent: Sat, Jun 2, 2018 10:19 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heat Exchanger Hi Pat,
check the service manual attached below. It has a blowup diagram of the cooling system for the various versions of the Volvo "####22#".
My understanding is that the "22" is based on the Perkins 4-108.
My 1990 SM was repowered in 2002 with a Volvo TAMD22a and other than the water hoses, the heat exchanger housing is all metal.
If you have eliminated the usual suspects: impeller, sea strainer, leaky hoses and check valves then perhaps the end caps, if they are not standard, could be the culprit. It certainly sounds wrong that the silicone covers water passages, and that a rubber boot separates coolant and sea water.
Can you send a photo?
Regards, John
---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote : John, I have no Orings , the rubber end caps have two different diameters ,the larger dia. clamps around the H/E housing and the smaller dia. part clamps around the insert. May be that I am missing parts and this is what the previous owner came up with. I have been looking online for a blown up diagram. Is the TMD22A a Perkins 4-108 ? I can find new end boots for it . The temperature increases with the rpm , at 2500 it got up to 215F, slow down and it decreases to 190 or so.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123
-----Original Message-----
From: john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Sat, Jun 2, 2018 8:27 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heat Exchanger [1 Attachment]
[Attachment(s) from john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] included below]
Hi Pat,
I attached the TAMD22 service manual, the cooling system starts on page 93. I can tell you if you are blocking holes it will significantly reduce the heat removal ability of the HX. I see in the manual that there appears to be o rings on the metal end caps. This is how I would expect it to be.
What kind of over heating issue do you experience? It could be something unrelated to the HX like drawing air from a cracked SW hose(happened to me) or leaking anti siphon, leaking backflow preventer....
Regards, John
John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
USVI
---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote : Mark, Reading your reply, I realized that I left out an important fact ,that my engine is a Volvo TMD22a . So my exchanger may be different from yours. I suspect it is, I see no where ,where a O ring would reside.All my small tubes were clear , what was partially block were two of the four larger holes in the bronze housing where antifreeze passes through.On my H/E there is two rubber boots on either end where the water enters and leaves from and they are secured with s.s.clamps. If they should leak ,and they are under pressure raw water could mix with the antifreeze.So if anyone with a TMD22a could tell me if there is Orings or silicone ,I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Pat
SM3123
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Fri, Jun 1, 2018 5:13 pm Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heat Exchanger Hi Pat,
It sounds as
though you are on the right track.
The ends should
be sealed with a rubber o-ring. Depending on the engine type there are
sometimes 2 o-rings. There should not be silicone. You should be able to look
through the tubes and see nothing but air. Any obstruction is going to cause
you grief especially near the ends as this is where the sea-water changes
direction. If you look at the design of the HE, you will see the how the
seawater changes direction two times before moving on.
While you are
in there, also check the after-cooler, if you have a turbo charger. This can be
another are where the copper tubes become blocked and foul the flow of
sea-water.
The anti freeze
is moved along the outside of the tubes by the engine’s fresh water pump. The
sea water is moved by the sea-water pump impeller on the inside of the tubes. The
anti-freeze is cooled as it makes contact with the other side of the copper
tube.
Hope this helps
you.
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 1, 2018 1:23 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heat Exchanger I have had my heat exchanger off several times over the years ,and
reinstalled it as the previous owner had and not questioned it ,until now. I
have had an overheating issue for years and am resolved to solve it . The
previous owner applied silicone on the end caps to seal them. Is this normally
done? When I just removed the H/E I found that as I pushed the cap on the last
time ,the silicone was pushed back and covered better than 50% of one of the
four holes and about 25%of another. Which brings me to another question. Is the
antifreeze forced through the holes or does it just come into contact with the
tubes as it moves along with the flow,I assume the later.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans #123
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heat Exchanger [1 Attachment]
John Clark
Hi Pat,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
check the service manual attached below. It has a blowup diagram of the cooling system for the various versions of the Volvo "####22#". My understanding is that the "22" is based on the Perkins 4-108. My 1990 SM was repowered in 2002 with a Volvo TAMD22a and other than the water hoses, the heat exchanger housing is all metal. If you have eliminated the usual suspects: impeller, sea strainer, leaky hoses and check valves then perhaps the end caps, if they are not standard, could be the culprit. It certainly sounds wrong that the silicone covers water passages, and that a rubber boot separates coolant and sea water. Can you send a photo? Regards, John ---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote : John, I have no Orings , the rubber end caps have two different diameters ,the larger dia. clamps around the H/E housing and the smaller dia. part clamps around the insert. May be that I am missing parts and this is what the previous owner came up with. I have been looking online for a blown up diagram. Is the TMD22A a Perkins 4-108 ? I can find new end boots for it . The temperature increases with the rpm , at 2500 it got up to 215F, slow down and it decreases to 190 or so. Thanks, Pat SM#123
-----Original Message----- From: john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Sat, Jun 2, 2018 8:27 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heat Exchanger [1 Attachment]
[Attachment(s) from john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] included below] Hi Pat, I attached the TAMD22 service manual, the cooling system starts on page 93. I can tell you if you are blocking holes it will significantly reduce the heat removal ability of the HX. I see in the manual that there appears to be o rings on the metal end caps. This is how I would expect it to be. What kind of over heating issue do you experience? It could be something unrelated to the HX like drawing air from a cracked SW hose(happened to me) or leaking anti siphon, leaking backflow preventer.... Regards, John John Clark SV Annie SM 37 USVI ---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote : Mark, Reading your reply, I realized that I left out an important fact ,that my engine is a Volvo TMD22a . So my exchanger may be different from yours. I suspect it is, I see no where ,where a O ring would reside.All my small tubes were clear , what was partially block were two of the four larger holes in the bronze housing where antifreeze passes through.On my H/E there is two rubber boots on either end where the water enters and leaves from and they are secured with s.s.clamps. If they should leak ,and they are under pressure raw water could mix with the antifreeze.So if anyone with a TMD22a could tell me if there is Orings or silicone ,I would appreciate it. Thanks, Pat SM3123
-----Original Message----- From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Fri, Jun 1, 2018 5:13 pm Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heat Exchanger Hi Pat, It sounds as
though you are on the right track. The ends should
be sealed with a rubber o-ring. Depending on the engine type there are
sometimes 2 o-rings. There should not be silicone. You should be able to look
through the tubes and see nothing but air. Any obstruction is going to cause
you grief especially near the ends as this is where the sea-water changes
direction. If you look at the design of the HE, you will see the how the
seawater changes direction two times before moving on. While you are
in there, also check the after-cooler, if you have a turbo charger. This can be
another are where the copper tubes become blocked and foul the flow of
sea-water. The anti freeze
is moved along the outside of the tubes by the engine’s fresh water pump. The
sea water is moved by the sea-water pump impeller on the inside of the tubes. The
anti-freeze is cooled as it makes contact with the other side of the copper
tube. Hope this helps
you. From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Sent: Friday, June 1, 2018 1:23 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heat Exchanger I have had my heat exchanger off several times over the years ,and
reinstalled it as the previous owner had and not questioned it ,until now. I
have had an overheating issue for years and am resolved to solve it . The
previous owner applied silicone on the end caps to seal them. Is this normally
done? When I just removed the H/E I found that as I pushed the cap on the last
time ,the silicone was pushed back and covered better than 50% of one of the
four holes and about 25%of another. Which brings me to another question. Is the
antifreeze forced through the holes or does it just come into contact with the
tubes as it moves along with the flow,I assume the later. Thanks, Pat SM Shenanigans #123
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Repower questions
greatketch@...
Thanks to all who answered!
We are not in dire need of engine replacement, but after two circumnavigation and just over 8000 hours we are entering that range where she might last many more years, but if she died in 6 months nobody would think it premature either. Bill Kinney SM 160, Harmonie Solomon’s Is, MD, USA
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heat Exchanger [1 Attachment]
Patrick McAneny
John, I have no Orings , the rubber end caps have two different diameters ,the larger dia. clamps around the H/E housing and the smaller dia. part clamps around the insert. May be that I am missing parts and this is what the previous owner came up with. I have been looking online for a blown up diagram. Is the TMD22A a Perkins 4-108 ? I can find new end boots for it . The temperature increases with the rpm , at 2500 it got up to 215F, slow down and it decreases to 190 or so.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123
-----Original Message----- From: john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] To: amelyachtowners Sent: Sat, Jun 2, 2018 8:27 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heat Exchanger [1 Attachment]
[Attachment(s) from john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] included below]
Hi Pat,
I attached the TAMD22 service manual, the cooling system starts on page 93. I can tell you if you are blocking holes it will significantly reduce the heat removal ability of the HX. I see in the manual that there appears to be o rings on the metal end caps. This is how I would expect it to be.
What kind of over heating issue do you experience? It could be something unrelated to the HX like drawing air from a cracked SW hose(happened to me) or leaking anti siphon, leaking backflow preventer....
Regards, John
John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
USVI
---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote : Mark, Reading your reply, I realized that I left out an important fact ,that my engine is a Volvo TMD22a . So my exchanger may be different from yours. I suspect it is, I see no where ,where a O ring would reside.All my small tubes were clear , what was partially block were two of the four larger holes in the bronze housing where antifreeze passes through.On my H/E there is two rubber boots on either end where the water enters and leaves from and they are secured with s.s.clamps. If they should leak ,and they are under pressure raw water could mix with the antifreeze.So if anyone with a TMD22a could tell me if there is Orings or silicone ,I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Pat
SM3123
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Fri, Jun 1, 2018 5:13 pm Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heat Exchanger Hi Pat,
It sounds as
though you are on the right track.
The ends should
be sealed with a rubber o-ring. Depending on the engine type there are
sometimes 2 o-rings. There should not be silicone. You should be able to look
through the tubes and see nothing but air. Any obstruction is going to cause
you grief especially near the ends as this is where the sea-water changes
direction. If you look at the design of the HE, you will see the how the
seawater changes direction two times before moving on.
While you are
in there, also check the after-cooler, if you have a turbo charger. This can be
another are where the copper tubes become blocked and foul the flow of
sea-water.
The anti freeze
is moved along the outside of the tubes by the engine’s fresh water pump. The
sea water is moved by the sea-water pump impeller on the inside of the tubes. The
anti-freeze is cooled as it makes contact with the other side of the copper
tube.
Hope this helps
you.
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 1, 2018 1:23 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Heat Exchanger I have had my heat exchanger off several times over the years ,and
reinstalled it as the previous owner had and not questioned it ,until now. I
have had an overheating issue for years and am resolved to solve it . The
previous owner applied silicone on the end caps to seal them. Is this normally
done? When I just removed the H/E I found that as I pushed the cap on the last
time ,the silicone was pushed back and covered better than 50% of one of the
four holes and about 25%of another. Which brings me to another question. Is the
antifreeze forced through the holes or does it just come into contact with the
tubes as it moves along with the flow,I assume the later.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans #123
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