Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering Failure on 1992 SM72 "Aloha"

Patrick McAneny
 

Steve, My boat is a couple of years newer , but it also did not come with a linear drive. When I looked at a newer model with the linear drive I saw that Amel had modified the aft compartment to accommodate the drive unit. Not willing to cut out stringers, and fabricating a new quadrant , I almost gave up on adding linear drive to my boat. I stood and scratched my head for awhile, and came up with a design/installation that worked out very well . If you decide to add a linear drive,take a look at the photo section under Shenanigans and will see what I did. The linear drive is superior to the rotary and I guess I don't need to tell you that redundancy is a good thing. 
Good Luck,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sun, Jul 15, 2018 5:39 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering Failure on 1992 SM72 "Aloha"

 
Hey Bill,

I did leave the autopilot completely out of the loop when testing, so that is not the issue. I found it hard to believe the incredibly robust looking steering cables could fail, but we feel like we have eliminated all other possibilities. I’m even wondering if a problem with a cable didn’t lead to premature failure of the rack. I emailed Maude Thursday to see if the cables are available, but have not heard back yet. I’m hoping Olivier may chime in on this one, as I suspect he has more insight into this system than anyone else. Liz and I could probably add a chapter to your book on SM steering rack and pinion replacement after taking it apart twice. The second time was far easier, but it was certainly frustrating to still have steering problems. 

Aloha,

Steve and Liz

On Jul 14, 2018, at 19:44, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups..com> wrote:

 
Steve,

Congratulations to you, Liz, and to Amel. Wow!

I know this may sound nuts, but... I assume that you are going to have to replace the cables, but I wasn't clear if you totally eliminated the autopilot drive motor & clutch. I admit that I cannot believe the fault is anywhere but the offending cable.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sun, Jul 15, 2018, 04:20 flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Seeking knowledgeable input on troubleshooting a steering issue on 1992-vintage SM.
 
Approximately 4000 nm into the 5200 nm passage from Panama to Hawaii, we experienced failure of the wheel steering system. Initial symptoms included intermittent clunking noises coming from the rack and pinion area, intermittent freezing of the steering wheel part of the way through the steering arc when turning in one direction only, but normal steering in the other direction.
 
Although we hand steered as much as possible after the initial symptoms appeared, the symptoms continued to worsen until we had complete failure of the wheel-steering system. SMs of this vintage have only a single, chain-driven rotary-drive autopilot, so we could not use the linear-drive autopilot that newer SMs are blessed with as a back-up steering system. Instead, we rigged the back-up tiller and spent the next 1200 nm out in the weather on the aft coach roof hand steering with the very responsive and robust Amel tiller system.
 
The yacht steered well with the tiller, and we were able to steer through the entire arc of the quadrant, from stop to stop, without resistance. Therefore we suspected the steering issue was unrelated to the rudder or steering quadrant. (The procedure for rigging the tiller requires that you disconnect the steering cables/rods from the quadrant.)
 
Upon landfall in Hawaii, we determined that several of the teeth had been broken out of both of the racks. Maude shipped us a new pair of racks as well as a new steering wheel shaft (the forward section of which incorporates the pinion) so we could replace our entire 26-year-old rack and pinion system.
 
We replaced both racks and the pinion using copious amounts of grease. We made sure to align the pinion in the very center of each rack with no tension on the steering rods / cables during the installation.
 
However, during a test sail, we were disappointed to find that we still have a mild, quiet thunking, primarily perceived through hands on the wheel rather than ears, while steering left using the wheel. Additionally, we are not able to steer through the full arc.
 
When turning starboard using the wheel, we can easily steer to the rudder stop. However, when steering to the port using the wheel, the quadrant arm stops about an inch prior to the rudder stop. While at the wheel, this symptom manifests as only getting 1.2 full turns of the steering wheel when steering to port,while the wheel turns 1.7 turns when turning to the starboard.
 
We feel confident these symptoms are not due to running out of teeth in either of the racks because we disassembled the brand new rack and pinion system, closely examined it, re-assembled it, and reinstalled the whole darned thing a second time to make sure we had not misaligned it. Upon examination, we were able to see that the new pinion had never rolled even close to the end teeth of either of the new racks.
 
We feel confident this symptom is not due to a problem with the rudder itself because, with the steering cables / rods disconnected from the quadrant, we are able to turn the quadrant with our bare hands through the full designed swing of the rudder from rudder stop to rudder stop in a smooth motion.
 
Another clue: We turn the wheel as far port as possible until it stops itself prematurely with the quadrant arm about an inch from the rudder stop. Next,we disconnect the steering cables / rods from the quadrant. Then, we apply significant muscle to the wheel and watch what happens to the exposed ends of the steering cables. The forward-most cable wants to continue to obey the wheel’s command and lengthen its protrusion from the cable sheath. It cannot protrude further, but you can see it trying to do so as you apply pressure to the wheel. However, the aft steering rod /cable,which should be obeying the wheel's command by shortening its protrusion, (moving more of the steering rod back into the sheath), instead refuses to move any more of the protruding rod back into the sheath. While we perform this test,if we place a hand on each of the sheaths while exerting pressure on the wheel at the far left turn position, we can feel a clunking inside of the aft steering cable sheath. We do not feel a similar clunking within the forward cable sheath.
 
Further examination of the visible portion of the steering cables didn't show any signs of wear or tear of the sheathing. The cable run from the racks through the cockpit lazarette, and takes the same smooth gentle pathway it always has. It disappears into a conduit which is glassed into the hull-side interior wall of the life raft locker and continues through a similar glassed-in conduit along the aft bathroom hull-side until finally emerging in the aft stateroom and heading beneath the bed. Beneath the bed, the cables go through a shallow, gentle curve to the spillwell devices that shepherd them through the structural stringer beneath the bed, allowing them to connect at the correct angle to the quadrant arms.
 
Further examination of the function of the misbehaving steering rod / cable while detached from the quadrant but still attached to the rack and pinion shows that,when turning the wheel to starboard,the rod appropriately lengthens, emerging from within the sheath without apparent friction. When turning the wheel left, the fully-protruding rod sucks itself back into the sheath without apparent friction until it suddenly stops a few cm short of where it should stop.
 
If the rod was broken somewhere within the sheath, totally transected, it seems that it might be able to follow the wheel’s command to protrude, but it wouldn’t then be able to follow the wheel’s command to suck itself back into the sheath. If there was some sort of kink or obstruction within the sheath, it seems we would have symptoms of friction with movement of the rod within the sheath in both directions, not just while moving the quadrant-end of the rod back into the sheath.
 
If anyone has experience with similar symptoms,or has knowledge of what is causing this very specific set of symptoms, your input would be greatly appreciated. Olivier, I hope you are reading this I suspect you have more knowledge of this system than all of us combined.
 
Thanks in advance for your input.
 
Steve and Liz Davis World Record Holders for Tiller steering an SM:)
Aloha SM72
Ko Olina, Hawaii


Re: Steering Failure on 1992 SM72 "Aloha"

John Clark
 

Hi Steve,
   Agree with Kent, check alignment before doing the cable replacement.   

FYI:  On my SM #37, the previous owner told me that the steering cables failed while they were in French Polynesia.  Amel initially refused to believe the cables failed but finally sent a technician with replacements from New Caledonia.  Amel reportedly performed the replacement for free. 

            Regards,  John 

SV Annie SM #37
Le Marin 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering Failure on 1992 SM72 "Aloha"

karkauai
 

Bet you were exhausted by the time you reached HI.  Sorry to hear you had that experience , but glad to hear the tiller works as advertised.

For what it’s worth, Kristy SM243 has exactly 1.5 turns of the wheel to each rudder stop.  It sounds like your wheel turns a full 3 turns from one side to the other.  Could it still be an alignment issue?

If you disconnect the cable at both ends, can you manually run it all the way in and out?  Any “thump”?

Glad you got back OK, Steve.

Malama mai ka’i nui loa lawe, ko’u ho’aloha.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering Failure on 1992 SM72 "Aloha"

Stephen Davis
 

Hey Bill,

I did leave the autopilot completely out of the loop when testing, so that is not the issue. I found it hard to believe the incredibly robust looking steering cables could fail, but we feel like we have eliminated all other possibilities. I’m even wondering if a problem with a cable didn’t lead to premature failure of the rack. I emailed Maude Thursday to see if the cables are available, but have not heard back yet. I’m hoping Olivier may chime in on this one, as I suspect he has more insight into this system than anyone else. Liz and I could probably add a chapter to your book on SM steering rack and pinion replacement after taking it apart twice. The second time was far easier, but it was certainly frustrating to still have steering problems. 

Aloha,

Steve and Liz

On Jul 14, 2018, at 19:44, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Steve,

Congratulations to you, Liz, and to Amel. Wow!

I know this may sound nuts, but... I assume that you are going to have to replace the cables, but I wasn't clear if you totally eliminated the autopilot drive motor & clutch. I admit that I cannot believe the fault is anywhere but the offending cable.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sun, Jul 15, 2018, 04:20 flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


Seeking knowledgeable input on troubleshooting a steering issue on 1992-vintage SM.

 

Approximately 4000 nm into the 5200 nm passage from Panama to Hawaii, we experienced failure of the wheel steering system. Initial symptoms included intermittent clunking noises coming from the rack and pinion area, intermittent freezing of the steering wheel part of the way through the steering arc when turning in one direction only, but normal steering in the other direction.

 

Although we hand steered as much as possible after the initial symptoms appeared, the symptoms continued to worsen until we had complete failure of the wheel-steering system. SMs of this vintage have only a single, chain-driven rotary-drive autopilot, so we could not use the linear-drive autopilot that newer SMs are blessed with as a back-up steering system. Instead, we rigged the back-up tiller and spent the next 1200 nm out in the weather on the aft coach roof hand steering with the very responsive and robust Amel tiller system.

 

The yacht steered well with the tiller, and we were able to steer through the entire arc of the quadrant, from stop to stop, without resistance. Therefore we suspected the steering issue was unrelated to the rudder or steering quadrant. (The procedure for rigging the tiller requires that you disconnect the steering cables/rods from the quadrant.)

 

Upon landfall in Hawaii, we determined that several of the teeth had been broken out of both of the racks. Maude shipped us a new pair of racks as well as a new steering wheel shaft (the forward section of which incorporates the pinion) so we could replace our entire 26-year-old rack and pinion system.

 

We replaced both racks and the pinion using copious amounts of grease. We made sure to align the pinion in the very center of each rack with no tension on the steering rods / cables during the installation.

 

However, during a test sail, we were disappointed to find that we still have a mild, quiet thunking, primarily perceived through hands on the wheel rather than ears, while steering left using the wheel. Additionally, we are not able to steer through the full arc.

 

When turning starboard using the wheel, we can easily steer to the rudder stop. However, when steering to the port using the wheel, the quadrant arm stops about an inch prior to the rudder stop. While at the wheel, this symptom manifests as only getting 1.2 full turns of the steering wheel when steering to port,while the wheel turns 1.7 turns when turning to the starboard.

 

We feel confident these symptoms are not due to running out of teeth in either of the racks because we disassembled the brand new rack and pinion system, closely examined it, re-assembled it, and reinstalled the whole darned thing a second time to make sure we had not misaligned it. Upon examination, we were able to see that the new pinion had never rolled even close to the end teeth of either of the new racks.

 

We feel confident this symptom is not due to a problem with the rudder itself because, with the steering cables / rods disconnected from the quadrant, we are able to turn the quadrant with our bare hands through the full designed swing of the rudder from rudder stop to rudder stop in a smooth motion.

 

Another clue: We turn the wheel as far port as possible until it stops itself prematurely with the quadrant arm about an inch from the rudder stop. Next,we disconnect the steering cables / rods from the quadrant. Then, we apply significant muscle to the wheel and watch what happens to the exposed ends of the steering cables. The forward-most cable wants to continue to obey the wheel’s command and lengthen its protrusion from the cable sheath. It cannot protrude further, but you can see it trying to do so as you apply pressure to the wheel. However, the aft steering rod /cable,which should be obeying the wheel's command by shortening its protrusion, (moving more of the steering rod back into the sheath), instead refuses to move any more of the protruding rod back into the sheath. While we perform this test,if we place a hand on each of the sheaths while exerting pressure on the wheel at the far left turn position, we can feel a clunking inside of the aft steering cable sheath. We do not feel a similar clunking within the forward cable sheath.

 

Further examination of the visible portion of the steering cables didn't show any signs of wear or tear of the sheathing. The cable run from the racks through the cockpit lazarette, and takes the same smooth gentle pathway it always has. It disappears into a conduit which is glassed into the hull-side interior wall of the life raft locker and continues through a similar glassed-in conduit along the aft bathroom hull-side until finally emerging in the aft stateroom and heading beneath the bed. Beneath the bed, the cables go through a shallow, gentle curve to the spillwell devices that shepherd them through the structural stringer beneath the bed, allowing them to connect at the correct angle to the quadrant arms.

 

Further examination of the function of the misbehaving steering rod / cable while detached from the quadrant but still attached to the rack and pinion shows that,when turning the wheel to starboard,the rod appropriately lengthens, emerging from within the sheath without apparent friction. When turning the wheel left, the fully-protruding rod sucks itself back into the sheath without apparent friction until it suddenly stops a few cm short of where it should stop.

 

If the rod was broken somewhere within the sheath, totally transected, it seems that it might be able to follow the wheel’s command to protrude, but it wouldn’t then be able to follow the wheel’s command to suck itself back into the sheath. If there was some sort of kink or obstruction within the sheath, it seems we would have symptoms of friction with movement of the rod within the sheath in both directions, not just while moving the quadrant-end of the rod back into the sheath.

 

If anyone has experience with similar symptoms,or has knowledge of what is causing this very specific set of symptoms, your input would be greatly appreciated. Olivier, I hope you are reading this I suspect you have more knowledge of this system than all of us combined.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

Steve and Liz Davis World Record Holders for Tiller steering an SM:)

Aloha SM72

Ko Olina, Hawaii



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering Failure on 1992 SM72 "Aloha"

 

Steve,

Congratulations to you, Liz, and to Amel. Wow!

I know this may sound nuts, but... I assume that you are going to have to replace the cables, but I wasn't clear if you totally eliminated the autopilot drive motor & clutch. I admit that I cannot believe the fault is anywhere but the offending cable.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sun, Jul 15, 2018, 04:20 flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


Seeking knowledgeable input on troubleshooting a steering issue on 1992-vintage SM.

 

Approximately 4000 nm into the 5200 nm passage from Panama to Hawaii, we experienced failure of the wheel steering system. Initial symptoms included intermittent clunking noises coming from the rack and pinion area, intermittent freezing of the steering wheel part of the way through the steering arc when turning in one direction only, but normal steering in the other direction.

 

Although we hand steered as much as possible after the initial symptoms appeared, the symptoms continued to worsen until we had complete failure of the wheel-steering system. SMs of this vintage have only a single, chain-driven rotary-drive autopilot, so we could not use the linear-drive autopilot that newer SMs are blessed with as a back-up steering system. Instead, we rigged the back-up tiller and spent the next 1200 nm out in the weather on the aft coach roof hand steering with the very responsive and robust Amel tiller system.

 

The yacht steered well with the tiller, and we were able to steer through the entire arc of the quadrant, from stop to stop, without resistance. Therefore we suspected the steering issue was unrelated to the rudder or steering quadrant. (The procedure for rigging the tiller requires that you disconnect the steering cables/rods from the quadrant.)

 

Upon landfall in Hawaii, we determined that several of the teeth had been broken out of both of the racks. Maude shipped us a new pair of racks as well as a new steering wheel shaft (the forward section of which incorporates the pinion) so we could replace our entire 26-year-old rack and pinion system.

 

We replaced both racks and the pinion using copious amounts of grease. We made sure to align the pinion in the very center of each rack with no tension on the steering rods / cables during the installation.

 

However, during a test sail, we were disappointed to find that we still have a mild, quiet thunking, primarily perceived through hands on the wheel rather than ears, while steering left using the wheel. Additionally, we are not able to steer through the full arc.

 

When turning starboard using the wheel, we can easily steer to the rudder stop. However, when steering to the port using the wheel, the quadrant arm stops about an inch prior to the rudder stop. While at the wheel, this symptom manifests as only getting 1.2 full turns of the steering wheel when steering to port,while the wheel turns 1.7 turns when turning to the starboard.

 

We feel confident these symptoms are not due to running out of teeth in either of the racks because we disassembled the brand new rack and pinion system, closely examined it, re-assembled it, and reinstalled the whole darned thing a second time to make sure we had not misaligned it. Upon examination, we were able to see that the new pinion had never rolled even close to the end teeth of either of the new racks.

 

We feel confident this symptom is not due to a problem with the rudder itself because, with the steering cables / rods disconnected from the quadrant, we are able to turn the quadrant with our bare hands through the full designed swing of the rudder from rudder stop to rudder stop in a smooth motion.

 

Another clue: We turn the wheel as far port as possible until it stops itself prematurely with the quadrant arm about an inch from the rudder stop. Next,we disconnect the steering cables / rods from the quadrant. Then, we apply significant muscle to the wheel and watch what happens to the exposed ends of the steering cables. The forward-most cable wants to continue to obey the wheel’s command and lengthen its protrusion from the cable sheath. It cannot protrude further, but you can see it trying to do so as you apply pressure to the wheel. However, the aft steering rod /cable,which should be obeying the wheel's command by shortening its protrusion, (moving more of the steering rod back into the sheath), instead refuses to move any more of the protruding rod back into the sheath. While we perform this test,if we place a hand on each of the sheaths while exerting pressure on the wheel at the far left turn position, we can feel a clunking inside of the aft steering cable sheath. We do not feel a similar clunking within the forward cable sheath.

 

Further examination of the visible portion of the steering cables didn't show any signs of wear or tear of the sheathing. The cable run from the racks through the cockpit lazarette, and takes the same smooth gentle pathway it always has. It disappears into a conduit which is glassed into the hull-side interior wall of the life raft locker and continues through a similar glassed-in conduit along the aft bathroom hull-side until finally emerging in the aft stateroom and heading beneath the bed. Beneath the bed, the cables go through a shallow, gentle curve to the spillwell devices that shepherd them through the structural stringer beneath the bed, allowing them to connect at the correct angle to the quadrant arms.

 

Further examination of the function of the misbehaving steering rod / cable while detached from the quadrant but still attached to the rack and pinion shows that,when turning the wheel to starboard,the rod appropriately lengthens, emerging from within the sheath without apparent friction. When turning the wheel left, the fully-protruding rod sucks itself back into the sheath without apparent friction until it suddenly stops a few cm short of where it should stop.

 

If the rod was broken somewhere within the sheath, totally transected, it seems that it might be able to follow the wheel’s command to protrude, but it wouldn’t then be able to follow the wheel’s command to suck itself back into the sheath. If there was some sort of kink or obstruction within the sheath, it seems we would have symptoms of friction with movement of the rod within the sheath in both directions, not just while moving the quadrant-end of the rod back into the sheath.

 

If anyone has experience with similar symptoms,or has knowledge of what is causing this very specific set of symptoms, your input would be greatly appreciated. Olivier, I hope you are reading this I suspect you have more knowledge of this system than all of us combined.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

Steve and Liz Davis World Record Holders for Tiller steering an SM:)

Aloha SM72

Ko Olina, Hawaii



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Genoa electric furling gears

Kostas Ioannidis <kostas_ioannidis@...>
 

Dear Duane,
Sorry I didn’t reply but I wasn’t very sure how to do that...and we’ve had guests on board.......


On Tuesday, July 10, 2018, 3:40:03 PM GMT+3, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

Kostas,


Could you post the plans Maude sends you in the files section?  As time goes on Amel will be less and less likely to stock them and the plans will help a lot.

Much appreciated,
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Steering Failure on 1992 SM72 "Aloha"

Stephen Davis
 


Seeking knowledgeable input on troubleshooting a steering issue on 1992-vintage SM.

 

Approximately 4000 nm into the 5200 nm passage from Panama to Hawaii, we experienced failure of the wheel steering system. Initial symptoms included intermittent clunking noises coming from the rack and pinion area, intermittent freezing of the steering wheel part of the way through the steering arc when turning in one direction only, but normal steering in the other direction.

 

Although we hand steered as much as possible after the initial symptoms appeared, the symptoms continued to worsen until we had complete failure of the wheel-steering system. SMs of this vintage have only a single, chain-driven rotary-drive autopilot, so we could not use the linear-drive autopilot that newer SMs are blessed with as a back-up steering system. Instead, we rigged the back-up tiller and spent the next 1200 nm out in the weather on the aft coach roof hand steering with the very responsive and robust Amel tiller system.

 

The yacht steered well with the tiller, and we were able to steer through the entire arc of the quadrant, from stop to stop, without resistance. Therefore we suspected the steering issue was unrelated to the rudder or steering quadrant. (The procedure for rigging the tiller requires that you disconnect the steering cables/rods from the quadrant.)

 

Upon landfall in Hawaii, we determined that several of the teeth had been broken out of both of the racks. Maude shipped us a new pair of racks as well as a new steering wheel shaft (the forward section of which incorporates the pinion) so we could replace our entire 26-year-old rack and pinion system.

 

We replaced both racks and the pinion using copious amounts of grease. We made sure to align the pinion in the very center of each rack with no tension on the steering rods / cables during the installation.

 

However, during a test sail, we were disappointed to find that we still have a mild, quiet thunking, primarily perceived through hands on the wheel rather than ears, while steering left using the wheel. Additionally, we are not able to steer through the full arc.

 

When turning starboard using the wheel, we can easily steer to the rudder stop. However, when steering to the port using the wheel, the quadrant arm stops about an inch prior to the rudder stop. While at the wheel, this symptom manifests as only getting 1.2 full turns of the steering wheel when steering to port,while the wheel turns 1.7 turns when turning to the starboard.

 

We feel confident these symptoms are not due to running out of teeth in either of the racks because we disassembled the brand new rack and pinion system, closely examined it, re-assembled it, and reinstalled the whole darned thing a second time to make sure we had not misaligned it. Upon examination, we were able to see that the new pinion had never rolled even close to the end teeth of either of the new racks.

 

We feel confident this symptom is not due to a problem with the rudder itself because, with the steering cables / rods disconnected from the quadrant, we are able to turn the quadrant with our bare hands through the full designed swing of the rudder from rudder stop to rudder stop in a smooth motion.

 

Another clue: We turn the wheel as far port as possible until it stops itself prematurely with the quadrant arm about an inch from the rudder stop. Next,we disconnect the steering cables / rods from the quadrant. Then, we apply significant muscle to the wheel and watch what happens to the exposed ends of the steering cables. The forward-most cable wants to continue to obey the wheel’s command and lengthen its protrusion from the cable sheath. It cannot protrude further, but you can see it trying to do so as you apply pressure to the wheel. However, the aft steering rod /cable,which should be obeying the wheel's command by shortening its protrusion, (moving more of the steering rod back into the sheath), instead refuses to move any more of the protruding rod back into the sheath. While we perform this test,if we place a hand on each of the sheaths while exerting pressure on the wheel at the far left turn position, we can feel a clunking inside of the aft steering cable sheath. We do not feel a similar clunking within the forward cable sheath.

 

Further examination of the visible portion of the steering cables didn't show any signs of wear or tear of the sheathing. The cable run from the racks through the cockpit lazarette, and takes the same smooth gentle pathway it always has. It disappears into a conduit which is glassed into the hull-side interior wall of the life raft locker and continues through a similar glassed-in conduit along the aft bathroom hull-side until finally emerging in the aft stateroom and heading beneath the bed. Beneath the bed, the cables go through a shallow, gentle curve to the spillwell devices that shepherd them through the structural stringer beneath the bed, allowing them to connect at the correct angle to the quadrant arms.

 

Further examination of the function of the misbehaving steering rod / cable while detached from the quadrant but still attached to the rack and pinion shows that,when turning the wheel to starboard,the rod appropriately lengthens, emerging from within the sheath without apparent friction. When turning the wheel left, the fully-protruding rod sucks itself back into the sheath without apparent friction until it suddenly stops a few cm short of where it should stop.

 

If the rod was broken somewhere within the sheath, totally transected, it seems that it might be able to follow the wheel’s command to protrude, but it wouldn’t then be able to follow the wheel’s command to suck itself back into the sheath. If there was some sort of kink or obstruction within the sheath, it seems we would have symptoms of friction with movement of the rod within the sheath in both directions, not just while moving the quadrant-end of the rod back into the sheath.

 

If anyone has experience with similar symptoms,or has knowledge of what is causing this very specific set of symptoms, your input would be greatly appreciated. Olivier, I hope you are reading this I suspect you have more knowledge of this system than all of us combined.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

Steve and Liz Davis World Record Holders for Tiller steering an SM:)

Aloha SM72

Ko Olina, Hawaii



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Leaking rudder

Arthur Sundqvist
 

Thanks. Allan for input on rudder leaking theme....

Fair Winds
Arthur Sundqvist
SM. 435.  Vista

Skickat från min iPhone

14 juli 2018 kl. 09:35 skrev divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

When I bought Elyse, there was a wrench in the tool box that looks like a pipe wrench, but the faces of the jaws are flat...that's what I have used to adjust the nut....and I don't need to disassemble the quadrant to do it.

Having said that we had real issues with leaks from the rudder gland some years ago, on the passage to Tahiti. "Someone" had cross threaded the nut. I had to take out one layer of packing to get it to thread.
Ordered a new nut from Maud, replaced the packing and it has been fine ever since....that was 2014 and I haven't since  needed to adjust the nut.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Leaking rudder

Alan Leslie
 

When I bought Elyse, there was a wrench in the tool box that looks like a pipe wrench, but the faces of the jaws are flat...that's what I have used to adjust the nut....and I don't need to disassemble the quadrant to do it.
Having said that we had real issues with leaks from the rudder gland some years ago, on the passage to Tahiti. "Someone" had cross threaded the nut. I had to take out one layer of packing to get it to thread.
Ordered a new nut from Maud, replaced the packing and it has been fine ever since....that was 2014 and I haven't since  needed to adjust the nut.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Leaking rudder

Arthur Sundqvist
 

Thank you for your advice.
Arthur. Sundqvist 
SM435.   Vista

Skickat från min iPhone

14 juli 2018 kl. 04:20 skrev Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Eric,

Your fabricated spanner is excellent and I congratulate you on it. However after 9 years my nylon nut is still in good order. If the pipe wrench is properly adjusted no appreciable damage is done, its not a high load adjustment. The wrenches are also available cheaply at any hardware store world wide,( or in the wide variety of those parts I've been to)  especially in third world places because of the multitude of uses they can be put to. Yours is undoubtedly the best, However I offered my solution for a sailor looking for a quick answer and I thought a hardware store could be easier to find than an engineer.

In the absence of any spanner and an urgent need a piece of nylon cord wrapped around the nut several times with a loop in the outer end. Place a long, strong flat end screw driver in the loop and apply pressure with the screw driver. Put the blade through the loop no more than 25 mm (1 Inch) The blade pressing on the cord stops it slipping and remarkable pressure can be brought to bear, the longer and stronger the screwdriver the greater the pressure.

Just be sure to wrap the cord the right way. Also works well to undo stubborn oil or fuel filters.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 14 July 2018 at 11:41 "kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
[Attachment(s) from kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] included below]

I feel that using a pipe wrench on a nylon nut damages the nut. I fabricated this short wrench that can be used without taking the rudder quadrant apart and does not damage the nylon nut. Amel also sells a similar wrench'


Fair winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimneberlite

 


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Leaking rudder [1 Attachment]

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Again Eric,

I just noticed your comment about taking the rudder quadrant off and I can understand your assuming that.  My wrench works without removing the quadrant otherwise I would have made your option years ago. The wrench I have is the smallest that has sufficient jaw opening and thus as I said in my original it just fits: meaning under the quadrant., 

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 14 July 2018 at 11:41 "kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
[Attachment(s) from kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] included below]

I feel that using a pipe wrench on a nylon nut damages the nut. I fabricated this short wrench that can be used without taking the rudder quadrant apart and does not damage the nylon nut. Amel also sells a similar wrench'


Fair winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimneberlite

 


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Leaking rudder [1 Attachment]

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Eric,

Your fabricated spanner is excellent and I congratulate you on it. However after 9 years my nylon nut is still in good order. If the pipe wrench is properly adjusted no appreciable damage is done, its not a high load adjustment. The wrenches are also available cheaply at any hardware store world wide,( or in the wide variety of those parts I've been to)  especially in third world places because of the multitude of uses they can be put to. Yours is undoubtedly the best, However I offered my solution for a sailor looking for a quick answer and I thought a hardware store could be easier to find than an engineer.

In the absence of any spanner and an urgent need a piece of nylon cord wrapped around the nut several times with a loop in the outer end. Place a long, strong flat end screw driver in the loop and apply pressure with the screw driver. Put the blade through the loop no more than 25 mm (1 Inch) The blade pressing on the cord stops it slipping and remarkable pressure can be brought to bear, the longer and stronger the screwdriver the greater the pressure.

Just be sure to wrap the cord the right way. Also works well to undo stubborn oil or fuel filters.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 14 July 2018 at 11:41 "kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
[Attachment(s) from kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] included below]

I feel that using a pipe wrench on a nylon nut damages the nut. I fabricated this short wrench that can be used without taking the rudder quadrant apart and does not damage the nylon nut. Amel also sells a similar wrench'


Fair winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimneberlite

 


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Leaking rudder

eric freedman
 

I feel that using a pipe wrench on a nylon nut damages the nut. I fabricated this short wrench that can be used without taking the rudder quadrant apart and does not damage the nylon nut. Amel also sells a similar wrench'

Fair winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimneberlite


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: leak in saloon drain hose

Craig Briggs
 

 Super. How do you spell, "Relief"
Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <ryan.d.meador@...> wrote :

I think I found the source of my leak!  These two jugs of water I'd stashed under the saloon sole apparently chafed through and drained out through a pinhole.  I assume they collapsed due to the vacuum created by the departing water.  I don't think there's a leak in the plumbing at all.  I didn't look at them closely enough when I was hunting for the source... at a glance from above, it's not obvious they were nearly empty.  Sorry for the false alarm!

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 10:53 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ryan,


Having used Captain Tolley's (AMAZING) Creeping Crack Cure on some hair-line window leaks with great success, I don't think it's quite the right product, as it really needs to work by capillary action in minute cracks. It seems a leaking hose connection would be too big. Seal-All is designed to fill and "skin over" small actively leaking places (although they do have to be dry until it sets). You could certainly give it a try, of course, and if it works, well, it works,although my choice would be a few coats of the Seals-All. 

Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <ryan.d.meador@...> wrote :

Hi Craig,

Thanks for the tips.  My best guess is that the leak is at the forward end of the main run, which is the bottom-right of the photo.  I'll try to confirm with some dye -- good idea!  The water kind of pools under the fitting and eventually flows aft, so it's not obvious where it comes from except that it's not either of the two top inlets.  I have some Captain Tolley's, I wonder if that would work for filling the mystery crack.  I was thinking I'd need to take the fitting out and replace the hose if the hose joint is where it's leaking (I already tried tightening the hose clamps) or replace the fitting if it had cracked.  It never occurred to me to try to fill the crack in situ.

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 8:53 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


Yes, Ryan, that does look like one butt-ugly agglomeration of plumbing fittings - must  be French :-) I've never seen a Street Elbow with at "T" off the side and the white part looks like maybe a drain trap. The hoses are all standard stuff - I've cut the main run to add a "T" for my air conditioner and it's all plastic (no wire).

Anyway, I think I'd start with a roll of paper towels, dry it all off and try to spot the leak by alternately pouring water down each feed and dabbing around with the paper towel. Maybe use some blue holding tank deodorant as a dye to help spot the leak. If you find it, then try a patch with something like Seal-All.  I usually wouldn't recommend trying to seal a leak from the outside, but that assembly is going to be a beast to replace as it does look like it's glued together with PVC cement and the age-hardened hoses and tight space around make it worse.  Seal-All is cheap and it really does work wonders, even applied from the outside..

Rots 'o ruck!
Craig SN68.


---In amelyachtowners@..., <ryan.d.meador@...> wrote :

I'm concerned my photo didn't appear correctly because I can't find it on the Yahoo site, so I'm attaching it a difH

ferent way this time.  Hopefully this makes it more clear what I'm talking about.  Thanks!

On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 10:26 PM Ryan Meador <ryan.d.meador@...> wrote:
Hi all,

I have noticed a very slow leak in the drain hose that runs from the forward watertight bulkhead, beneath the floor in the saloon, to the area beneath the companionway.  It fills the space beneath the companionway stairs with water.  I think the leak is at the fitting where the dishwasher drain and air conditioning condensate T into it:

IMG_20180709_211135.jpg

I'm unsure if the leak is between the hose and the fitting, or the fitting itself has cracked.  I'm afraid to take it apart without a plan.  I'm wondering if someone can help me with a few questions:
  1. does this thing come apart?  it looks like the parts are glued, except the hose clamps
  2. what is the white part in the middle?
  3. do you know the inside diameters of the hoses?  is there anything special about the material of the one that runs the length of the saloon?
Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: leak in saloon drain hose

Ryan Meador
 

I think I found the source of my leak!  These two jugs of water I'd stashed under the saloon sole apparently chafed through and drained out through a pinhole.  I assume they collapsed due to the vacuum created by the departing water.  I don't think there's a leak in the plumbing at all.  I didn't look at them closely enough when I was hunting for the source... at a glance from above, it's not obvious they were nearly empty.  Sorry for the false alarm!

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 10:53 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ryan,


Having used Captain Tolley's (AMAZING) Creeping Crack Cure on some hair-line window leaks with great success, I don't think it's quite the right product, as it really needs to work by capillary action in minute cracks. It seems a leaking hose connection would be too big. Seal-All is designed to fill and "skin over" small actively leaking places (although they do have to be dry until it sets). You could certainly give it a try, of course, and if it works, well, it works,although my choice would be a few coats of the Seals-All. 

Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Hi Craig,

Thanks for the tips.  My best guess is that the leak is at the forward end of the main run, which is the bottom-right of the photo.  I'll try to confirm with some dye -- good idea!  The water kind of pools under the fitting and eventually flows aft, so it's not obvious where it comes from except that it's not either of the two top inlets.  I have some Captain Tolley's, I wonder if that would work for filling the mystery crack.  I was thinking I'd need to take the fitting out and replace the hose if the hose joint is where it's leaking (I already tried tightening the hose clamps) or replace the fitting if it had cracked.  It never occurred to me to try to fill the crack in situ.

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 8:53 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


Yes, Ryan, that does look like one butt-ugly agglomeration of plumbing fittings - must  be French :-) I've never seen a Street Elbow with at "T" off the side and the white part looks like maybe a drain trap. The hoses are all standard stuff - I've cut the main run to add a "T" for my air conditioner and it's all plastic (no wire).

Anyway, I think I'd start with a roll of paper towels, dry it all off and try to spot the leak by alternately pouring water down each feed and dabbing around with the paper towel. Maybe use some blue holding tank deodorant as a dye to help spot the leak. If you find it, then try a patch with something like Seal-All.  I usually wouldn't recommend trying to seal a leak from the outside, but that assembly is going to be a beast to replace as it does look like it's glued together with PVC cement and the age-hardened hoses and tight space around make it worse.  Seal-All is cheap and it really does work wonders, even applied from the outside..

Rots 'o ruck!
Craig SN68.


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

I'm concerned my photo didn't appear correctly because I can't find it on the Yahoo site, so I'm attaching it a difH

ferent way this time.  Hopefully this makes it more clear what I'm talking about.  Thanks!

On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 10:26 PM Ryan Meador <ryan.d.meador@...> wrote:
Hi all,

I have noticed a very slow leak in the drain hose that runs from the forward watertight bulkhead, beneath the floor in the saloon, to the area beneath the companionway.  It fills the space beneath the companionway stairs with water.  I think the leak is at the fitting where the dishwasher drain and air conditioning condensate T into it:

IMG_20180709_211135.jpg

I'm unsure if the leak is between the hose and the fitting, or the fitting itself has cracked.  I'm afraid to take it apart without a plan.  I'm wondering if someone can help me with a few questions:
  1. does this thing come apart?  it looks like the parts are glued, except the hose clamps
  2. what is the white part in the middle?
  3. do you know the inside diameters of the hoses?  is there anything special about the material of the one that runs the length of the saloon?
Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Drawer/cupboard pulls

John Clark
 

Hi All, sorry was not paying attention.  I am still interested in purchasing the square handles.  I would probably (depending on price) take ten.    I haven't asked Alban yet about the handles...probably should get on that as I am here in Martinique.  Am flying with Alex(Nikimat) this afternoon but will check first thing on Monday....if there are any French at work the day after World Cup.
                    John

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Le Marin

On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 10:38 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Update on drawer pulls:


Maud just wrote and apologized that she was mistakenly thinking about the round pulls when she told me she did have the original square ones, so it looks we're back at square one on getting replacements.

Anyone pursuing 3D printing or other options - please keep us posted.

Cheers, Craig Briggs, SN68 SANGARIS


---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Hi Steve,

Got it and have added to my list.  Per my post let's shift to email.  
sangaris at aol dot com

Send me an email so i have your email and I'l update when I hear from Maud.

Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Hi Craig,

Thanks for doing all the leg work on this. I’d take at least 10, but depending on price, would at least double that order. My theory is that I’ve already had 2 failures, and due to the age of the boat, would expect many more during my ownership. I also have a Swiss friend with an older SM who needs some. He is in Switzerland now, and I’ll let him know. 

Steve 
Aloha SM 72
Hawaii

On Jul 9, 2018, at 04:39, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

After I posted this and several others replied they needed them too, I wrote back to Maud, telling her that, and she has now written to me saying she may be able to get them after all, now that there is a known demand.  I'm waiting for her to write back and give me pricing.


I'd like to give her a firm order and will be happy to coordinate for the US contingent.  That is, I can place a bulk order and then break it out to others within the US, rather than have Maud send several overseas shipments,  From the replies posted on the DB so far: 
Miles - Ladybug in Newport -  "4 or 5"
Ryan & Kelle - Iteration in Boston  -  "a couple"
Jose Venegas - Impanema in Boston  -  "5"
Steve Davis - Aloha in Hawaii   - "some"
John Clark - ?  in ?   -   "yes"
Kent Robertson - Kristy in St Michaels -  ? 
Craig Briggs - Sangaris - in Boca Raton -  need one, if price is right would take 10 or more

John on Annie in Martinique wanted "some" but may be better off dealing with Amel Carribbean (or  not)

Anyway, I'll keep you posted on what Maud says.  In the meantime, let's take this off-line of the regular forum traffic.  Drop me an email to sangaris@...  (that's sangaris at aol.com).  We don't need to do anything firm until Maud gives us the pricing.  I also asked her to clarify if we can buy the chrome pulls separate from the brown plastic latching part.  If the pulls are inexpensive I've got a lot that are corroding and could use freshening up - I think there's about 40 in total on my SN.

Cheers,
Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris, parked in Brunswick, GA (I'm in Boca Raton) sangaris@...


---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Maud informed me that Amel no longer has the old push-button rectangular drawer pulls. 
Has anyone found a source or a good replacement?


Many thanks, Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris



Re: Removing Genoa car

mfmcgovern@...
 

Pat,

No problem.  See the attached picture for how to attach a picture (or other file) when posting using a PC on the Yahoo Groups interface.  I hope that helps.

Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Drawer/cupboard pulls

Craig Briggs
 

Update on drawer pulls:

Maud just wrote and apologized that she was mistakenly thinking about the round pulls when she told me she did have the original square ones, so it looks we're back at square one on getting replacements.

Anyone pursuing 3D printing or other options - please keep us posted.

Cheers, Craig Briggs, SN68 SANGARIS


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sangaris@...> wrote :

Hi Steve,

Got it and have added to my list.  Per my post let's shift to email.  
sangaris at aol dot com

Send me an email so i have your email and I'l update when I hear from Maud.

Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <flyboyscd@...> wrote :

Hi Craig,

Thanks for doing all the leg work on this. I’d take at least 10, but depending on price, would at least double that order. My theory is that I’ve already had 2 failures, and due to the age of the boat, would expect many more during my ownership. I also have a Swiss friend with an older SM who needs some. He is in Switzerland now, and I’ll let him know. 

Steve 
Aloha SM 72
Hawaii

On Jul 9, 2018, at 04:39, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

After I posted this and several others replied they needed them too, I wrote back to Maud, telling her that, and she has now written to me saying she may be able to get them after all, now that there is a known demand.  I'm waiting for her to write back and give me pricing.


I'd like to give her a firm order and will be happy to coordinate for the US contingent.  That is, I can place a bulk order and then break it out to others within the US, rather than have Maud send several overseas shipments,  From the replies posted on the DB so far: 
Miles - Ladybug in Newport -  "4 or 5"
Ryan & Kelle - Iteration in Boston  -  "a couple"
Jose Venegas - Impanema in Boston  -  "5"
Steve Davis - Aloha in Hawaii   - "some"
John Clark - ?  in ?   -   "yes"
Kent Robertson - Kristy in St Michaels -  ? 
Craig Briggs - Sangaris - in Boca Raton -  need one, if price is right would take 10 or more

John on Annie in Martinique wanted "some" but may be better off dealing with Amel Carribbean (or  not)

Anyway, I'll keep you posted on what Maud says.  In the meantime, let's take this off-line of the regular forum traffic.  Drop me an email to sangaris@...  (that's sangaris at aol.com).  We don't need to do anything firm until Maud gives us the pricing.  I also asked her to clarify if we can buy the chrome pulls separate from the brown plastic latching part.  If the pulls are inexpensive I've got a lot that are corroding and could use freshening up - I think there's about 40 in total on my SN.

Cheers,
Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris, parked in Brunswick, GA (I'm in Boca Raton) sangaris@...


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sangaris@...> wrote :

Maud informed me that Amel no longer has the old push-button rectangular drawer pulls. 
Has anyone found a source or a good replacement?


Many thanks, Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Removing Genoa car

Patrick McAneny
 

Mark, We can do that, but my wife is leaving for the weekend and I would not have a clue how to upload,download or sideload anything. So we'll do that when she gets back.
Pat 
SM#123
Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: mfmcgovern@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 8:55 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Removing Genoa car

 
Pat,

Can you upload a few pics of the finished result when you get a chance?

Thanks,
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Removing Genoa car

mfmcgovern@...
 

Pat,

Can you upload a few pics of the finished result when you get a chance?

Thanks,
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

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