Date   

Re: tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/

Teun BAAS
 

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks for feedback.

 

Just out of curiosity: what would motivate AMEL to change the ONAN impeller pump to the (ceramic centrifugal) booster pump? I am not questioning wisdom and must admit that except 1 occasion I never had a problem with this pump and NEVER had to change the impeller as it simply isn’t there. Although the impeller on the ONAN is far more accessible than on my VOLVO D3 H – where it is on the back of the engine close to the shower bulkhead.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 12:37:59

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2021 12:19
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/

 

Teun,

 

I like and I have the utmost respect for Brian. 

 

Remember there are other 230VAC pumps/devices this low. They include:

AC Saltwater Pump

LP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built). The PO of your 54 changed out the Dessalator Watermaker for another brand.

HP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built)

Wiring for the water heater

 

The 230VAC pump you have in-line with the Onan mechanical saltwater pump is considered a booster pump and was a "hidden" option Amel installed in a few 54s.

 

The danger would be an electrical shock if standing in your engine room with the generator running and the engine room is flooded. How possible do you consider this? Yes, there is a remote possibility, but the same possibility exists with the other 230 volt devices in a 54 engine room.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:35 PM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

On AMELIT, June 2009 AMEL 54 # 128, I have an 220v electric water pump which was an AMEL original installed option with the ONAN impeller removed and now an open cavity.

 

Several people (including Bill ROUSE) suggested to have both the electric pump as well as the original ONAN impeller operating jointly and when I looked into doing this in 2018 in NEW CALEDONIA and again in 2019 in VANUATU both marine technician strongly advised against doing this.

 

Being on the hard in COOMERA, QLND AUSTRALIA since December 2019 fellow AMEL owners Sue & Brian MITCHELL (in addition very experienced, professional Superyachts Captains) have been looking after AMELIT and we have been discussing several engine room related issues. This electric ONAN pump is one of them and Brian, rightfully, is wondering why a 220v pump is: A) being used and B) so low on the floor of the engine room.

 

Does anybody have any feedback on this as I simply don’t know so cannot answer his question or justify the set up.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 10:31:52

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Boom Outhaul

 

Courtney, 

Thanks for that.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 2:18 PM Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill I have hull number 101 with version 3 One other comment the gearbox has changed since it’s initial manufacture for this version


On Apr 13, 2021, at 3:10 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:


Randall,

1. Outhaul Motors Gearbox A54:
I think there are a total of 3 versions of the A54 outhaul and I have no idea the hull number introduction and cut-off dates for each. The first 54s had an identical Leroy Somer outhaul like the SM. This was later changed to a motor and gearbox that was covered and then changed to a totally different motor. To further complicate helping you, at some point, Amel added thermo-switches to the circuitry of the A54 outhaul and furler motors/

1st Version (Same as a SM):
<image.png>

2nd Version (same as above but an on-boom cover added)
<image.png>


3rd Version - without cover & with cover:
<image.png>

<image.png>


2: Thermo-switches (Possibly your Issue):

<image.png>

<image.png>

The 54 has additional overheating protection added (above right - green circle), but in an emergency, can be overridden. This compartment is in the Port Forward Berth on the 54. It is behind a panel secured by Velcro and possibly an additional screw. You can locate it by listening to the clicking sound while operating the main furler and/or outhaul.

I hope this helps you sort things out.

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:26 PM Randall Walker <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Hello All,

I have just completed a Solo Sail from Gibraltar to Grenada. My first Solo.
Departed 7 March arrived 10 April 3930 nm there is a few extra miles due to fussy wind and just going with the flow at night. What stopped working a few things but I will only ask today about the boom outhaul, it stopped after week number 2 so for the most part I left it out about a third and made use of the mizzen and Genoa.
What is happening? mast furler works fine. when I push in or out on the BH (boom haulout) I hear a loud click at the breaker but the motor doesn't turn. So I believe up to the motor I'm OK.
I arrived on the night of the 10th all is well I decide to just sail through the night at a slow pace and enter in the morning. I awoke just before sunup to find I need to let out some more headsail. But something looks odd the bottom of the sail has sripes. So I go out to look, it is still dark and I think why is there so much polution coming from the island? Then I look at my hands and there covered in soot. I didn't think of the volcano. When I finnaly anchored I heard the news.
They have been busy down here running suppies up and people down this way.
I am glad to hear that it is messy and dirty but all are OK.

So in another quest for knowlege about other things I need to learn.
I will get back to you.

Randall
A54#56
S/V ALBEDO


Re: 2008 Amel 54 rigging

 

Courtney, 

Nance and Underwood are one of my Preferred Vendors. Be sure that you tell Roger that you are a client.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:43 PM Porter McRoberts via groups.io <portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Nance and Underwood are great. I agree and have all the in-house aptitudes to handle deviations and unexpected realities. And they pick up the phone and get right in it if there’s an issue. 



Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206

On Apr 13, 2021, at 5:34 AM, Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


Thanks Bill for all the great informantion
Cheers
Courtney


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2021 10:10 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Courntey,

There are several ways to do the rigging on an Amel (or any other boat, for that matter)  You can have the exact dimensions on file, and cut the wires to length at a factory and prepare the end terminals there and ship out the competed product.  This is what ACMO does, and does well.

The standard process that most riggers use is to measure the wires, then prepare the rig at their shop and install it on the boat. There are a couple issues here.  It is very difficult to measure the lengths precisely with the rig up, so most riggers will want the rig down.  Also, there are very few rigging shops that use a proper rotary hammer swaging machine, preferring the much smaller, much less expensive roller swager instead.  A roller swager can certainly make a good sage, but a lot depends on the skill, experience, and careful attention of the operator.

We worked with a rigger who did things a bit differently.

When we re-rigged last year we looked at the ACMO package.  If we were going to install it ourselves, we would certainly have gone that way.  But we were busy with other projects, and the amount of aloft time needed to install a new rig just didn't appeal. Since local riggers make a good piece of their profit on materials, if you come to most of them with a rig on a pallet for installation (i.e., ACMO), it can get expensive.

We used Nance and Underwood in Fort Lauderdale to make and install the new rig.  They have done a LOT of Amel re-rigs, under Joel Potter's tutoring. They know the boats. They have a design for a bespoke bronze turnbuckle they make in-house for the Super Maramu and others that use that furler so can fully replace the forestay fittings inside the furler without compromise. For their work process, mechanical terminals work out very well.  They make up the top end of all the wires at the shop, and leave them a little long. At the boat, they take down one wire at a time, lay it out on the dock, cut the new wire to the exact length, install the lower terminal, and hang the wire. In our experience they come pretty close to the right tuning at the dock, but be prepared to go through the last couple of steps in Olivier's rigging instructions when you get the boat sailing to make sure it is right.

Things to be aware of:  There will be minor changes--I believe with any USA based rigger.  Getting ALL the metric based fittings here is extremely difficult, so some things will be switched over to inch sizes.  That requires enlarging some holes in chainplates.  If that bothers you, your only real option is to use an ACMO kit, or rerig in Europe or the French Caribbean, or wait a long time for slow deliveries.  As far as I can tell, inch size rigging fittings are available everywhere, metric sizes are less widely distributed. The lower shroud turnbuckles also end up rotated 90 degrees, so the lifelines no longer go through them. A minor frustration. If it really bothered you, you COULD drill out a new cotter pin hole in the lower stud. If you use Nance and Underwood, try to find a marina with wood docks, or work with them ahead of time to figure out how to protect the wire from damage while it is being handled and dragged on a concrete dock surface.

All the terminals on our new rig are mechanical terminals--except the lower forestay.  A swage is needed here because on the Super Maramu it has to fit up inside the furler, and there are no mechanical fittings of small enough diameter to do this.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Re: tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/

 

Teun,

I like and I have the utmost respect for Brian. 

Remember there are other 230VAC pumps/devices this low. They include:
AC Saltwater Pump
LP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built). The PO of your 54 changed out the Dessalator Watermaker for another brand.
HP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built)
Wiring for the water heater

The 230VAC pump you have in-line with the Onan mechanical saltwater pump is considered a booster pump and was a "hidden" option Amel installed in a few 54s.

The danger would be an electrical shock if standing in your engine room with the generator running and the engine room is flooded. How possible do you consider this? Yes, there is a remote possibility, but the same possibility exists with the other 230 volt devices in a 54 engine room.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:35 PM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

On AMELIT, June 2009 AMEL 54 # 128, I have an 220v electric water pump which was an AMEL original installed option with the ONAN impeller removed and now an open cavity.

 

Several people (including Bill ROUSE) suggested to have both the electric pump as well as the original ONAN impeller operating jointly and when I looked into doing this in 2018 in NEW CALEDONIA and again in 2019 in VANUATU both marine technician strongly advised against doing this.

 

Being on the hard in COOMERA, QLND AUSTRALIA since December 2019 fellow AMEL owners Sue & Brian MITCHELL (in addition very experienced, professional Superyachts Captains) have been looking after AMELIT and we have been discussing several engine room related issues. This electric ONAN pump is one of them and Brian, rightfully, is wondering why a 220v pump is: A) being used and B) so low on the floor of the engine room.

 

Does anybody have any feedback on this as I simply don’t know so cannot answer his question or justify the set up.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 10:31:52

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Boom Outhaul

Courtney Gorman
 

Bill I have hull number 101 with version 3 One other comment the gearbox has changed since it’s initial manufacture for this version


On Apr 13, 2021, at 3:10 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:


Randall,

1. Outhaul Motors Gearbox A54:
I think there are a total of 3 versions of the A54 outhaul and I have no idea the hull number introduction and cut-off dates for each. The first 54s had an identical Leroy Somer outhaul like the SM. This was later changed to a motor and gearbox that was covered and then changed to a totally different motor. To further complicate helping you, at some point, Amel added thermo-switches to the circuitry of the A54 outhaul and furler motors/

1st Version (Same as a SM):
<image.png>

2nd Version (same as above but an on-boom cover added)
<image.png>


3rd Version - without cover & with cover:
<image.png>

<image.png>


2: Thermo-switches (Possibly your Issue):

<image.png>

<image.png>

The 54 has additional overheating protection added (above right - green circle), but in an emergency, can be overridden. This compartment is in the Port Forward Berth on the 54. It is behind a panel secured by Velcro and possibly an additional screw. You can locate it by listening to the clicking sound while operating the main furler and/or outhaul.

I hope this helps you sort things out.

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:26 PM Randall Walker <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Hello All,

I have just completed a Solo Sail from Gibraltar to Grenada. My first Solo.
Departed 7 March arrived 10 April 3930 nm there is a few extra miles due to fussy wind and just going with the flow at night. What stopped working a few things but I will only ask today about the boom outhaul, it stopped after week number 2 so for the most part I left it out about a third and made use of the mizzen and Genoa.
What is happening? mast furler works fine. when I push in or out on the BH (boom haulout) I hear a loud click at the breaker but the motor doesn't turn. So I believe up to the motor I'm OK.
I arrived on the night of the 10th all is well I decide to just sail through the night at a slow pace and enter in the morning. I awoke just before sunup to find I need to let out some more headsail. But something looks odd the bottom of the sail has sripes. So I go out to look, it is still dark and I think why is there so much polution coming from the island? Then I look at my hands and there covered in soot. I didn't think of the volcano. When I finnaly anchored I heard the news.
They have been busy down here running suppies up and people down this way.
I am glad to hear that it is messy and dirty but all are OK.

So in another quest for knowlege about other things I need to learn.
I will get back to you.

Randall
A54#56
S/V ALBEDO


Re: Boom Outhaul

 

Randall,

1. Outhaul Motors Gearbox A54:
I think there are a total of 3 versions of the A54 outhaul and I have no idea the hull number introduction and cut-off dates for each. The first 54s had an identical Leroy Somer outhaul like the SM. This was later changed to a motor and gearbox that was covered and then changed to a totally different motor. To further complicate helping you, at some point, Amel added thermo-switches to the circuitry of the A54 outhaul and furler motors/

1st Version (Same as a SM):
image.png
2nd Version (same as above but an on-boom cover added)
image.png

3rd Version - without cover & with cover:
image.png
image.png

2: Thermo-switches (Possibly your Issue):

image.png
image.png
The 54 has additional overheating protection added (above right - green circle), but in an emergency, can be overridden. This compartment is in the Port Forward Berth on the 54. It is behind a panel secured by Velcro and possibly an additional screw. You can locate it by listening to the clicking sound while operating the main furler and/or outhaul.

I hope this helps you sort things out.

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:26 PM Randall Walker <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Hello All,

I have just completed a Solo Sail from Gibraltar to Grenada. My first Solo.
Departed 7 March arrived 10 April 3930 nm there is a few extra miles due to fussy wind and just going with the flow at night. What stopped working a few things but I will only ask today about the boom outhaul, it stopped after week number 2 so for the most part I left it out about a third and made use of the mizzen and Genoa.
What is happening? mast furler works fine. when I push in or out on the BH (boom haulout) I hear a loud click at the breaker but the motor doesn't turn. So I believe up to the motor I'm OK.
I arrived on the night of the 10th all is well I decide to just sail through the night at a slow pace and enter in the morning. I awoke just before sunup to find I need to let out some more headsail. But something looks odd the bottom of the sail has sripes. So I go out to look, it is still dark and I think why is there so much polution coming from the island? Then I look at my hands and there covered in soot. I didn't think of the volcano. When I finnaly anchored I heard the news.
They have been busy down here running suppies up and people down this way.
I am glad to hear that it is messy and dirty but all are OK.

So in another quest for knowlege about other things I need to learn.
I will get back to you.

Randall
A54#56
S/V ALBEDO


Re: END OF group purchase of 10Ultramarine anchors. (35 and 45kg)

jlm@jlmertz.fr
 

Super  Ulrich .. fair wind ....

You will see they are so beautiful  ...

Next project ... perhaps anti-fouling or sails .... do you have any suggestion ?

Jean Luc Mertz

CottonBay SM 3156
Le 13/04/2021 à 18:20, Ulrich Michael Dangelmeyer a écrit :

Mission accomplished! Anchor and ground tackle already ordered.
Thanks so much for your efforts Jean Luc!
Whats the next project for the group👍?
Best
Ulrich 

Am 13.04.2021 um 17:47 schrieb jlm@...:

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 05:06 AM, jlm@... wrote:

Group purchase of UltraMarine Anchors will END this weekend ..... April 18 .....

If you wish to participate in this group purchase you can still do so by registering on:  http: // www.cottonbay.fr/U_a.php


Jean Luc Mertz

CottonBay SM 3156


tb/AMEL 53 VOLVO PENTA exhaust hose/

Teun BAAS
 

 

AMELIT is a June 2009 AMEL 54 #128.

 

I had the VOLVO PENTA D3 110 I replaced in May 2018 with the VOLVO PENTA D3 H.

The original set up had an enormous long & fat rubber exhaust hose hanging from the VOLVO and supported by a “belt” attached to the Engine Room hatch support connection; using new hose, we repeated this in the new 2018 set up.

 

Brian and I are discussing getting a 3” fiber glass elbow manufactured in order to avoid this long hose loop hanging in the engine room.

 

Any reason why we should NOT do this?

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

In Storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

April 13, 2021 10:50:49

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

 

 


Re: 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Porter McRoberts
 

Nance and Underwood are great. I agree and have all the in-house aptitudes to handle deviations and unexpected realities. And they pick up the phone and get right in it if there’s an issue. 



Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Apr 13, 2021, at 5:34 AM, Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1@...> wrote:


Thanks Bill for all the great informantion
Cheers
Courtney


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2021 10:10 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Courntey,

There are several ways to do the rigging on an Amel (or any other boat, for that matter)  You can have the exact dimensions on file, and cut the wires to length at a factory and prepare the end terminals there and ship out the competed product.  This is what ACMO does, and does well.

The standard process that most riggers use is to measure the wires, then prepare the rig at their shop and install it on the boat. There are a couple issues here.  It is very difficult to measure the lengths precisely with the rig up, so most riggers will want the rig down.  Also, there are very few rigging shops that use a proper rotary hammer swaging machine, preferring the much smaller, much less expensive roller swager instead.  A roller swager can certainly make a good sage, but a lot depends on the skill, experience, and careful attention of the operator.

We worked with a rigger who did things a bit differently.

When we re-rigged last year we looked at the ACMO package.  If we were going to install it ourselves, we would certainly have gone that way.  But we were busy with other projects, and the amount of aloft time needed to install a new rig just didn't appeal. Since local riggers make a good piece of their profit on materials, if you come to most of them with a rig on a pallet for installation (i.e., ACMO), it can get expensive.

We used Nance and Underwood in Fort Lauderdale to make and install the new rig.  They have done a LOT of Amel re-rigs, under Joel Potter's tutoring. They know the boats. They have a design for a bespoke bronze turnbuckle they make in-house for the Super Maramu and others that use that furler so can fully replace the forestay fittings inside the furler without compromise. For their work process, mechanical terminals work out very well.  They make up the top end of all the wires at the shop, and leave them a little long. At the boat, they take down one wire at a time, lay it out on the dock, cut the new wire to the exact length, install the lower terminal, and hang the wire. In our experience they come pretty close to the right tuning at the dock, but be prepared to go through the last couple of steps in Olivier's rigging instructions when you get the boat sailing to make sure it is right.

Things to be aware of:  There will be minor changes--I believe with any USA based rigger.  Getting ALL the metric based fittings here is extremely difficult, so some things will be switched over to inch sizes.  That requires enlarging some holes in chainplates.  If that bothers you, your only real option is to use an ACMO kit, or rerig in Europe or the French Caribbean, or wait a long time for slow deliveries.  As far as I can tell, inch size rigging fittings are available everywhere, metric sizes are less widely distributed. The lower shroud turnbuckles also end up rotated 90 degrees, so the lifelines no longer go through them. A minor frustration. If it really bothered you, you COULD drill out a new cotter pin hole in the lower stud. If you use Nance and Underwood, try to find a marina with wood docks, or work with them ahead of time to figure out how to protect the wire from damage while it is being handled and dragged on a concrete dock surface.

All the terminals on our new rig are mechanical terminals--except the lower forestay.  A swage is needed here because on the Super Maramu it has to fit up inside the furler, and there are no mechanical fittings of small enough diameter to do this.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/

Teun BAAS
 

On AMELIT, June 2009 AMEL 54 # 128, I have an 220v electric water pump which was an AMEL original installed option with the ONAN impeller removed and now an open cavity.

 

Several people (including Bill ROUSE) suggested to have both the electric pump as well as the original ONAN impeller operating jointly and when I looked into doing this in 2018 in NEW CALEDONIA and again in 2019 in VANUATU both marine technician strongly advised against doing this.

 

Being on the hard in COOMERA, QLND AUSTRALIA since December 2019 fellow AMEL owners Sue & Brian MITCHELL (in addition very experienced, professional Superyachts Captains) have been looking after AMELIT and we have been discussing several engine room related issues. This electric ONAN pump is one of them and Brian, rightfully, is wondering why a 220v pump is: A) being used and B) so low on the floor of the engine room.

 

Does anybody have any feedback on this as I simply don’t know so cannot answer his question or justify the set up.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 10:31:52

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Boom Outhaul

Randall Walker
 

Hello All,

I have just completed a Solo Sail from Gibraltar to Grenada. My first Solo.
Departed 7 March arrived 10 April 3930 nm there is a few extra miles due to fussy wind and just going with the flow at night. What stopped working a few things but I will only ask today about the boom outhaul, it stopped after week number 2 so for the most part I left it out about a third and made use of the mizzen and Genoa.
What is happening? mast furler works fine. when I push in or out on the BH (boom haulout) I hear a loud click at the breaker but the motor doesn't turn. So I believe up to the motor I'm OK.
I arrived on the night of the 10th all is well I decide to just sail through the night at a slow pace and enter in the morning. I awoke just before sunup to find I need to let out some more headsail. But something looks odd the bottom of the sail has sripes. So I go out to look, it is still dark and I think why is there so much polution coming from the island? Then I look at my hands and there covered in soot. I didn't think of the volcano. When I finnaly anchored I heard the news.
They have been busy down here running suppies up and people down this way.
I am glad to hear that it is messy and dirty but all are OK.

So in another quest for knowlege about other things I need to learn.
I will get back to you.

Randall
A54#56
S/V ALBEDO


European Fire Extinguishers

David Kurtz
 

So what does everyone do when it comes time to recertify European fire extinguishers in the United States?  The CO2 extinguisher for the engine room appears to be the original unit installed in 2003.  So far three fire extinguisher service companies have refused to certify it because it is not a DOT approved bottle.  I like the way it is mounted and the fact that it is a manual release.  Has anyone come across another bottle that fits in this space?


--
Dave Kurtz
SM2 #380
S/V Celtic Cross

Detroit, Michigan


Re: END OF group purchase of 10Ultramarine anchors. (35 and 45kg)

Ulrich Michael Dangelmeyer
 

Mission accomplished! Anchor and ground tackle already ordered.
Thanks so much for your efforts Jean Luc!
Whats the next project for the group👍?
Best
Ulrich 

Am 13.04.2021 um 17:47 schrieb jlm@...:

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 05:06 AM, jlm@... wrote:

Group purchase of UltraMarine Anchors will END this weekend ..... April 18 .....

If you wish to participate in this group purchase you can still do so by registering on:  http: // www.cottonbay.fr/U_a.php


Jean Luc Mertz

CottonBay SM 3156


END OF group purchase of 10Ultramarine anchors. (35 and 45kg)

jlm@jlmertz.fr
 

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 05:06 AM, jlm@... wrote:

Group purchase of UltraMarine Anchors will END this weekend ..... April 18 .....

If you wish to participate in this group purchase you can still do so by registering on:  http: // www.cottonbay.fr/U_a.php


Jean Luc Mertz

CottonBay SM 3156


Re: 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Courtney Gorman
 

Thanks Bill for all the great informantion
Cheers
Courtney


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2021 10:10 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Courntey,

There are several ways to do the rigging on an Amel (or any other boat, for that matter)  You can have the exact dimensions on file, and cut the wires to length at a factory and prepare the end terminals there and ship out the competed product.  This is what ACMO does, and does well.

The standard process that most riggers use is to measure the wires, then prepare the rig at their shop and install it on the boat. There are a couple issues here.  It is very difficult to measure the lengths precisely with the rig up, so most riggers will want the rig down.  Also, there are very few rigging shops that use a proper rotary hammer swaging machine, preferring the much smaller, much less expensive roller swager instead.  A roller swager can certainly make a good sage, but a lot depends on the skill, experience, and careful attention of the operator.

We worked with a rigger who did things a bit differently.

When we re-rigged last year we looked at the ACMO package.  If we were going to install it ourselves, we would certainly have gone that way.  But we were busy with other projects, and the amount of aloft time needed to install a new rig just didn't appeal. Since local riggers make a good piece of their profit on materials, if you come to most of them with a rig on a pallet for installation (i.e., ACMO), it can get expensive.

We used Nance and Underwood in Fort Lauderdale to make and install the new rig.  They have done a LOT of Amel re-rigs, under Joel Potter's tutoring. They know the boats. They have a design for a bespoke bronze turnbuckle they make in-house for the Super Maramu and others that use that furler so can fully replace the forestay fittings inside the furler without compromise. For their work process, mechanical terminals work out very well.  They make up the top end of all the wires at the shop, and leave them a little long. At the boat, they take down one wire at a time, lay it out on the dock, cut the new wire to the exact length, install the lower terminal, and hang the wire. In our experience they come pretty close to the right tuning at the dock, but be prepared to go through the last couple of steps in Olivier's rigging instructions when you get the boat sailing to make sure it is right.

Things to be aware of:  There will be minor changes--I believe with any USA based rigger.  Getting ALL the metric based fittings here is extremely difficult, so some things will be switched over to inch sizes.  That requires enlarging some holes in chainplates.  If that bothers you, your only real option is to use an ACMO kit, or rerig in Europe or the French Caribbean, or wait a long time for slow deliveries.  As far as I can tell, inch size rigging fittings are available everywhere, metric sizes are less widely distributed. The lower shroud turnbuckles also end up rotated 90 degrees, so the lifelines no longer go through them. A minor frustration. If it really bothered you, you COULD drill out a new cotter pin hole in the lower stud. If you use Nance and Underwood, try to find a marina with wood docks, or work with them ahead of time to figure out how to protect the wire from damage while it is being handled and dragged on a concrete dock surface.

All the terminals on our new rig are mechanical terminals--except the lower forestay.  A swage is needed here because on the Super Maramu it has to fit up inside the furler, and there are no mechanical fittings of small enough diameter to do this.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Re: 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Bill Kinney
 

Courntey,

There are several ways to do the rigging on an Amel (or any other boat, for that matter)  You can have the exact dimensions on file, and cut the wires to length at a factory and prepare the end terminals there and ship out the competed product.  This is what ACMO does, and does well.

The standard process that most riggers use is to measure the wires, then prepare the rig at their shop and install it on the boat. There are a couple issues here.  It is very difficult to measure the lengths precisely with the rig up, so most riggers will want the rig down.  Also, there are very few rigging shops that use a proper rotary hammer swaging machine, preferring the much smaller, much less expensive roller swager instead.  A roller swager can certainly make a good sage, but a lot depends on the skill, experience, and careful attention of the operator.

We worked with a rigger who did things a bit differently.

When we re-rigged last year we looked at the ACMO package.  If we were going to install it ourselves, we would certainly have gone that way.  But we were busy with other projects, and the amount of aloft time needed to install a new rig just didn't appeal. Since local riggers make a good piece of their profit on materials, if you come to most of them with a rig on a pallet for installation (i.e., ACMO), it can get expensive.

We used Nance and Underwood in Fort Lauderdale to make and install the new rig.  They have done a LOT of Amel re-rigs, under Joel Potter's tutoring. They know the boats. They have a design for a bespoke bronze turnbuckle they make in-house for the Super Maramu and others that use that furler so can fully replace the forestay fittings inside the furler without compromise. For their work process, mechanical terminals work out very well.  They make up the top end of all the wires at the shop, and leave them a little long. At the boat, they take down one wire at a time, lay it out on the dock, cut the new wire to the exact length, install the lower terminal, and hang the wire. In our experience they come pretty close to the right tuning at the dock, but be prepared to go through the last couple of steps in Olivier's rigging instructions when you get the boat sailing to make sure it is right.

Things to be aware of:  There will be minor changes--I believe with any USA based rigger.  Getting ALL the metric based fittings here is extremely difficult, so some things will be switched over to inch sizes.  That requires enlarging some holes in chainplates.  If that bothers you, your only real option is to use an ACMO kit, or rerig in Europe or the French Caribbean, or wait a long time for slow deliveries.  As far as I can tell, inch size rigging fittings are available everywhere, metric sizes are less widely distributed. The lower shroud turnbuckles also end up rotated 90 degrees, so the lifelines no longer go through them. A minor frustration. If it really bothered you, you COULD drill out a new cotter pin hole in the lower stud. If you use Nance and Underwood, try to find a marina with wood docks, or work with them ahead of time to figure out how to protect the wire from damage while it is being handled and dragged on a concrete dock surface.

All the terminals on our new rig are mechanical terminals--except the lower forestay.  A swage is needed here because on the Super Maramu it has to fit up inside the furler, and there are no mechanical fittings of small enough diameter to do this.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Re: ACMO v Kos Hama X rigging wire

 


I said the benefits of ordering from ACMO are:
1.) ACMO is the OEM provider to Amel for rigging and has been for over 40 years.
2.) ACMO is up-to-date with Amel specs. 
3.)ACMO is a designated Preferred Vendor to my Yacht School clients and I believe about 50 of my clients have purchased rigging kits from ACMO. 
4.) Two of the three riggers I will recommend worldwide buy ACMO rigging material.
The most important benefits are 1 & 2 above. ACMO has the exact specifications in terms of size and length that are needed, in most cases, to properly rig an Amel. With many Maramus, Santorins, and some Super Maramus an owner is the 5th owner to own the boat and the 2nd owner to re-rig it. Ensuring accuracy and including needed updates (as in the case of the 54) are important and some 54 owners have discovered that their non-ACMO re-rig wasn't done with the most recent Amel specs. The A-54 rigging updates were made during the production of the 54. I doubt that Amel will make any rigging update after they cease production of a model and as far as I know that has never happened. 

I also previously wrote, "All of the above said, you should buy from the supplier you feel is best for you. It is possible that the company you choose will be as good or better than ACMO."

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 8:51 PM Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:
Laurens,

There is no easy answer to "how long" for rigging.  The problem is that stainless steel can fail in ways that give absolutely no visual warning.  It can look perfect--right up until the rig fails. The idea that a visual inspection can "certify" a rig as good is just a total falsehood.  Certainly there ARE issues a visual inspection can find, but there are many more it can not.

Failures occur with increasing frequency with age, so there is no magic cutoff.  The "generally accepted" practice for rigging used in tropical salt water is a life span of 15 years.  Warmer, saltier, water (like the Gulf of Mexico or the Med) gives a shorter life.  Colder, fresher, water allows a longer lifespan.  Rig tuning, and the amount of sailing and the kind of sailing also factor in, but all in a very unquantifiable way.  We replaced our rig after 14 years, not because there was any indication of failure, but the consequences of failure are just too high.

I would specifically ask for BRONZE turnbuckles.  Chrome plated, if you prefer the shiny look.  They are just as strong as stainless, less susceptible to crevice corrosion, and most importantly, far less likely to "gall" and lock the threads with the stainless studs.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Re: 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Courtney Gorman
 

Joel do you have any recommendations about where to have this done? I have a year left before my rig is 15 and would like to plan ahead.
Cheers
Courtney 


-----Original Message-----
From: amelforme <jfpottercys@...>
To: laurensrineke@...; main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Apr 12, 2021 2:02 pm
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Hello Laurens. Long time…
It is best to ask your insurance carrier what limitations of time are placed on your standing rigging. Most insurance companies that do state limitations usually require complete replacement at 15 years of age.
 
Many years ago as a teen ager, I worked as a rigger in Chicago where the boats come out of the water every fall and the top tier racing boats would always have the masts and rigging pulled for deep inspection and storage. I learned a lot from these experiences. The most important thing I learned is that regarding swaged rigging fittings, like the ones on your Amel 54,  they cannot be visually inspected to reliably determine their condition. While a cracked swage fitting means that the rigging has failed and must not be used, a swage fitting can be a day away from failing with no external indication. Why? The swage fails from internal corrosion that generally cannot be seen until a failure has occurred. Again, an incipient failure may not be visible even moments before a total failure.
 
It is for this reason that I recommend that offshore cruising sailing yachts use mechanical end fittings such as Sta-Lok www.stalok.com .
These fittings are actually stronger than the wire they are applied to and, importantly, they do not retain moisture internally which causes the failure of swage fittings. Sta-Lok fittings are stronger and more durable than swage fittings and that is a verifiable fact. Even if your insurance provider does not have time limitations on your current rigging, I would not have sailed my Amel boats I have owned with rigging even a day older than 15 years and I would always replace it with mechanical end fittings.
 
I do not work for Sta-Lok nor any of their agents.
 
Say hello to Rineke. Have fun with your Amel!  
 
All the best,
Joel
 
           JOEL F. POTTER ~ CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST, L.L.C.
                                         The Experienced AMEL Guy
UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE
                                  Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485
 


Re: Best Sailrite flightcase storage in A54?

Arno Luijten
 

Because of the angled surface where the sailrite is placed below the dining table, the sailrite does not move, It’s also above the keel so motions are faily limited anyway. I did not need to add any lockup things for that. I just slide is as much as possible to the centre line as possible. I use some storage boxes to fill up the remaining cavities with other “stuff”. I like to have to this kind of weight close to the keel. 


Regards,
Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: ACMO rigging - unusual failure

Bill Kinney
 

Craig,

Speculating on a topic like this without actually inspecting the materials is likely to be a problematic exercise, but I have an idea for you.  Note well that I am discussing this having MUCH more experience with SM rigs than SN, but I do not believe that Amel made significant changes in the way they designed these systems.

I think your mizzen backstays are (much) too tight.  Your description of the failure you were lucky (???) enough to have watched as involving an "explosive bang" is a pretty big clue. At rest, these wires should not be that tight.

There are a LOT of moving parts here.  The length of the triatic, and the degree of rake of the masts are key.  You say your rig was made by ACMO, so it's a reasonable assumption that the triatic was the right length, but you might want to confirm that.

Did you measure the tension in the mizzen backstays during the rigging process?  If not measured, would you describe them as "ringing" tight?
Did you need to tension them significantly to pull the mizzen back to vertical after making the adjustments to the main mast?
Did you measure the mainmast backstay tension?  I am wondering if the mizzen backstays and triatic are taking more than their fair share of the load of the forestay tension.

The fact you have had TWO failures here seems to indicate something is systemically wrong... 

I hesitate to blame the swages, all the ones I have seen from ACMO where very high quality rotary hammer swages.  Can you post a photo of the failed parts?

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA.

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