Date   
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hydraulic Linear Drive.

Ken Powers <sailingaquarius@...>
 

Hello Jean-Pierre,

Hope you are well, and looking forward to meet up again sometime soon.  Aquarius is currently on the hard in Trinidad, and we will be going to Panama November.  Probably going to sail the San Blasé Islands for a few months then Jan or Feb 2018 go through the canal.  Hope to see you again soon!!!!

All the best,

Ken and Zivile


On Saturday, July 22, 2017 8:49 AM, "pitugolf@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Hello Jean-Pierre (Eleuthera)

could you kindly explain me more you coment:


" However, the installation of a hydraulic drive in an early SM enforces a regime of “remove the rudder bellcrank” to verify and tighten the rudder shaft nylon nut because one cannot get the tool under the modified bellcrank to tighten it while at sea.  (Lose all steering if done… think of putting the boat in “irons” before removing the bellcrank.  Hence the “regime" described earlier…."

Thank you in advance,

Maria


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting

Patrick McAneny
 

Mark, I ordered a load tester today, something I have meant to do for a long time. I switched out batteries to eliminate it being the battery , but who knows , maybe with my luck , both are bad. I hope so , but that would be too easy. The thing is , there doesn't seem to be enough power to excite the gauges or the alarm buzzer or the glow plug light. Seems like a bad connection on the neg. side somewhere, but what do I know, answer , very little.

Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:36 am
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting

 
Pat,
 
Test the battery with a load tester. If you do not have a load tester you can take the battery to any automotive parts store for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell you if the battery has enough oomph left in it.
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Grenada
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 10:00 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
 
 
John,The 11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start , but nothing happens not even a click from the solenoid . I can't understand what would bleed off the voltage , nothing is hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm button buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up.
Thanks ,Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 9:29 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting
 
Not sure which model you have but on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and motor.
  Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts:
 
1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is not making good contact.  I assume you are speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at the helm.    A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of OK voltage without load,  but when you try to start there  is not enough current to do anything.  
 
2. If the battery is failing it might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines.  When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8,  was that while starting or after the attempts are completed?   
 
 If the starter motors don't fire there shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the battery.  That 11.8 after an attempt would then point me toward a bad battery.  But you already tried a different battery.  Are you sure all the batteries tried are good and properly charged?  
 
I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms.
 
  Regards,  John
 
John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Charleston SC


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :
For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng ine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I determined last night ;
Neither engine will start.
Battery shows 12.6 V
Have 12.6 V at both solenoids   
Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches
When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.
After that Voltage only measures 11. 8
After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly
Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing
I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen< /div>
Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.
The glow plug lite does not even come on.
fuse is good on back side of Gen.
Solenoids don't click
Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.
 
It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines 
My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?
Both engines would not share this switch , would they.
Do both engines share the same ground?
To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids 
 
Any thoughts on wh at to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.
 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: leaking 3 way valve in dessalator watermaker prefilter

Sv Garulfo
 


Hi Bill, 

Thanks for your reply. Agreed, nothing urgent at this point, and I can run the system ok and not use the automated reverse flush part of the shutdown. According to the manual, that is by switching off the watermaker first and then lower the pressure with the regulatring valve. I understand you would follow the same procedure?

I wouldn't try to fix the valve, but I was enquiring whether it was plausible it would fail by just using it once and I suppose failure in any of the three modes you describe could be triggered that way. Alternatively, and as I read from a previous thread about leaking 3 way valves, I was looking for reports of people who experienced fixing the issue by operating the valve somehow differently. I accept there might be none.


On the subject of performance, i can see the device produces 50L/h, so 50% of nominal capacity, with 23C waters temp, with 530h history. That looks pretty poor to me. No leaks to report, pressure gauge stable in the green zone, output water quality is acceptable to taste, just less volume than expected. This is both running 24V and 230V motors. I looked for air in the filter and I can only see a few bubbles dancing around. I tried to purge them as per Bill Rouse's method but can't get 100% rid of them. I hope that's ok?
Is that symptomatic of anything in particular?

Thanks 
Thomas

Garulfo
Amel 54 #122
anchored near Hyeres, France 


On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 at 16:58, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I also have a 2-way valve in my fresh water flush line for the watermaker. (actually two...) that is closed all the time unless I am actually flushing with fresh water.  I might very well have a leaking 3-way valve, and will never know...


I am assuming if you close the 2-way valve in your freshwater flush line the leaking 3-way valve would then have no symptoms.  So my first reaction is, what's to fix? But... if you regularly flush the watermaker and the main seachest seacock stays closed, you could eventually overfill the raw water circuit and flood engine exhaust, so a fix might be a good idea anyway.

There are only three failure modes I can think of for this valve: corrosion of the body, corrosion of the ball, or failure of the seats.  None of these are an easy fix. The valve has shown itself prone to failure, new valves are not very expensive.  Why even try to fix?

Three-way valves like this should not fail this way.  If I ever need to replace mine, I would not consider replacing it "in-kind", but with a more reliable valve. Bronze, 3-way, L-port, ball valves with teflon seats in an appropriate size are easily available.  With a stainless ball and stainless handle, and you're all set for less than US$100.  It will likely last longer than the hull.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Glouchester, Mass

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Côte d'azur, France

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Survey

Volkmann, Uwe <volkmann@...>
 

Thanks for helping!

DR. UWE V. VOLKMANN
Amel Maramu Kerbian

Kommt von mobilem Gerät, bitte entschuldigen Sie mögliche Fehler!

Mobile Typing...Faults possible... Sorry!


Am 25. Jul. 2017 um 17:32 schrieb Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

The best surveyor for Amel is Olivier Beaute on this group.

Peter

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730

On 25 Jul 2017, at 14:47, volkmann@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi, are there any good suryeyors gor Amel SM in northern Europe? What is the difference of the Red Line models? Thank you in advance 


Uwe

Amel Maramu

SY Kerbian

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Survey

Peter Forbes
 

The best surveyor for Amel is Olivier Beaute on this group.

Peter

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730

On 25 Jul 2017, at 14:47, volkmann@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi, are there any good suryeyors gor Amel SM in northern Europe? What is the difference of the Red Line models? Thank you in advance 


Uwe

Amel Maramu

SY Kerbian

Re: leaking 3 way valve in desalator prefilter

greatketch@...
 

I also have a 2-way valve in my fresh water flush line for the watermaker. (actually two...) that is closed all the time unless I am actually flushing with fresh water.  I might very well have a leaking 3-way valve, and will never know...

I am assuming if you close the 2-way valve in your freshwater flush line the leaking 3-way valve would then have no symptoms.  So my first reaction is, what's to fix? But... if you regularly flush the watermaker and the main seachest seacock stays closed, you could eventually overfill the raw water circuit and flood engine exhaust, so a fix might be a good idea anyway.

There are only three failure modes I can think of for this valve: corrosion of the body, corrosion of the ball, or failure of the seats.  None of these are an easy fix. The valve has shown itself prone to failure, new valves are not very expensive.  Why even try to fix?

Three-way valves like this should not fail this way.  If I ever need to replace mine, I would not consider replacing it "in-kind", but with a more reliable valve. Bronze, 3-way, L-port, ball valves with teflon seats in an appropriate size are easily available.  With a stainless ball and stainless handle, and you're all set for less than US$100.  It will likely last longer than the hull.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Glouchester, Mass

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engines not starting

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Mark,

And. the 2 main battery switches.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550







On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 9:01 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

If neither the engine or the genset start and have the same symptoms, the common denominator is the start battery.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Grenada

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 9:04 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engines not starting

 

 

For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the engine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I determined last night ;

Neither engine will start.

Battery shows 12.6 V

Have 12.6 V at both solenoids   

Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches

When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.

After that Voltage only measures 11. 8

After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly

Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing

I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen

Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.

The glow plug lite does not even come on.

fuse is good on back side of Gen.

Solenoids don't click

Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.

 

It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines 

My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?

Both engines would not share this switch , would they.

Do both engines share the same ground?

To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids 

 

Any thoughts on what to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting

Mark Erdos
 

Pat,

 

Test the battery with a load tester. If you do not have a load tester you can take the battery to any automotive parts store for testing. Measuring the voltage will not tell you if the battery has enough oomph left in it.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Grenada

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 10:00 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting

 

 

John,The 11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start , but nothing happens not even a click from the solenoid . I can't understand what would bleed off the voltage , nothing is hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm button buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up.

Thanks ,Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 9:29 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting

 

Not sure which model you have but on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and motor.

  Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts:

 

1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is not making good contact.  I assume you are speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at the helm.    A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of OK voltage without load,  but when you try to start there  is not enough current to do anything.  

 

2. If the battery is failing it might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines.  When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8,  was that while starting or after the attempts are completed?   

 

 If the starter motors don't fire there shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the battery.  That 11.8 after an attempt would then point me toward a bad battery.  But you already tried a different battery.  Are you sure all the batteries tried are good and properly charged?  

 

I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms.

 

  Regards,  John

 

John Clark

SV Annie SM 37

Charleston SC



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng ine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I determined last night ;

Neither engine will start.

Battery shows 12.6 V

Have 12.6 V at both solenoids   

Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches

When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.

After that Voltage only measures 11. 8

After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly

Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing

I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen< /div>

Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.

The glow plug lite does not even come on.

fuse is good on back side of Gen.

Solenoids don't click

Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.

 

It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines 

My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?

Both engines would not share this switch , would they.

Do both engines share the same ground?

To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids 

 

Any thoughts on wh at to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.

 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Survey

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Uwe,

The best surveyor for Amels in the world is Olivier Beaute <olivierbeaute@...>. He is located in France and travels anywhere.

The primary difference in Red Line Super Maramus is cosmetic, with the use of colors designed for the 54. This included leather trim colors, boot stripe and rub rail. There are a few more differences because suppliers to Amel changed models. For instance, Dolphin chargers in all Red Lines are a newer model that that used in most Super Maramus, however some Super Maramus produced before the Red Line also had a later model Dolphin charger. Some Electronics in Red Line are also different, such as NavNet for Furuno chartplotters...these types of small changes occurred throughout the production years. BTW, the last 54s were "Sand Line" models because the leather boot stripe, and rub rail colors of the 55 were used on the last 54s.

Are you looking to have your Maramu surveyed, or looking at another Amel?

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970








On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 8:47 AM, volkmann@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi, are there any good suryeyors gor Amel SM in northern Europe? What is the difference of the Red Line models? Thank you in advance 


Uwe

Amel Maramu

SY Kerbian


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engines not starting

Patrick McAneny
 

Mark, I agree , I checked that first and several times, even switched out to one of the house batteries , same results. It would not appear to be at the battery switch at least not on the positive side as I have 12.6 at the solenoids . But that is without a load .
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 10:08 am
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engines not starting

 
If neither the engine or the genset start and have the same symptoms, the common denominator is the start battery.
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Grenada
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 9:04 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engines not starting
 
 
For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the engine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I determined last night ;
Neither engine will start.
Battery shows 12.6 V
Have 12.6 V at both solenoids   
Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches
When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.
After that Voltage only measures 11. 8
After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly
Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing
I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen
Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.
The glow plug lite does not even come on.
fuse is good on back side of Gen.
Solenoids don't click
Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.
 
It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines 
My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?
Both engines would not share this switch , would they.
Do both engines share the same ground?
To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids 
 
Any thoughts on what to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.
 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engines not starting

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, I used the digital tester and have 12.6v at the battery , checked at the solenoid and also have 12.6v , which indicates to me that the switch is passing along 12.6 volts. 
Is it possible to take the switches apart to clean the contacts ? I have been wanting to do that , but they seemed sealed.
Could the problem be on the negative side , at the battery disconnect switch , since both engines won't start and I show 12.6v 
I don't know how to confirm good contact on the neg. side


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 9:36 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engines not starting

 
Steve,

Check the following in order of probability:
  1. Load-test starting battery, or use the digital tester
  2. Check the connections on the starting battery...coat with corrosionX
  3. Coat all of the contacts on the two main battery switches
  4. Check all battery to engine connections
  5. Check starter and starter solenoid.
  6. Check the key switch (probably not this)
I am betting it is one of the first 3.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engines not starting

Mark Erdos
 

If neither the engine or the genset start and have the same symptoms, the common denominator is the start battery.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Grenada

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 9:04 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engines not starting

 

 

For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the engine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I determined last night ;

Neither engine will start.

Battery shows 12.6 V

Have 12.6 V at both solenoids   

Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches

When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.

After that Voltage only measures 11. 8

After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly

Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing

I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen

Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.

The glow plug lite does not even come on.

fuse is good on back side of Gen.

Solenoids don't click

Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.

 

It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines 

My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?

Both engines would not share this switch , would they.

Do both engines share the same ground?

To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids 

 

Any thoughts on what to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.

 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting

Patrick McAneny
 

John,The 11.8v was after turning the key in an attempt to start , but nothing happens not even a click from the solenoid . I can't understand what would bleed off the voltage , nothing is hot to the touch. Even the gauges don't move or alarm button buzz. On the generator the glow plug doesn't light up.
Thanks ,Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 9:29 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engines not starting

 
Not sure which model you have but on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and motor.
  Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts:

1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is not making good contact.  I assume you are speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at the helm.    A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of OK voltage without load,  but when you try to start there  is not enough current to do anything.  

2. If the battery is failing it might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines.  When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8,  was that while starting or after the attempts are completed?   

 If the starter motors don't fire there shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the battery.  That 11.8 after an attempt would then point me toward a bad battery.  But you already tried a different battery.  Are you sure all the batteries tried are good and properly charged?  

I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms.

  Regards,  John

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Charleston SC


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the eng ine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I determined last night ;
Neither engine will start.
Battery shows 12.6 V
Have 12.6 V at both solenoids   
Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches
When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.
After that Voltage only measures 11. 8
After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly
Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing
I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen< /div>
Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.
The glow plug lite does not even come on.
fuse is good on back side of Gen.
Solenoids don't click
Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.

It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines 
My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?
Both engines would not share this switch , would they.
Do both engines share the same ground?
To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids 

Any thoughts on wh at to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Survey

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

I think the best is Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@...

I don’t know the differences on the Red Line models

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Port de Plaisance de Gustavia, Saint Barthélémy, FWI



--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 7/25/17, volkmann@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Survey
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2017, 8:47 AM


 









Hi, are there any good suryeyors gor
Amel SM in northern Europe? What is the difference of the
Red Line models? Thank you in
advance 
UweAmel
MaramuSY Kerbian

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engines not starting

Patrick McAneny
 

Steve, No , but I switched out the battery and used one of my 12v house batteries that are kept fully charged . However I guess it could be possible to have two bad batteries. Is it possible for a battery to show 12.6v and still have a bad cell ?


-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 9:12 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engines not starting

 
Have you load tested the starter battery?

Steve
Aloha SM72

On Jul 25, 2017, at 09:03, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the engine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I determined last night ;
Neither engine will start.
Battery shows 12.6 V
Have 12.6 V at both solenoids   
Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches
When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.
After that V oltage only measures 11. 8
After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly
Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing
I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen
Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.
The glow plug lite does not even come on.
fuse is good on back side of Gen.
Solenoids don't click
Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.

It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines 
My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?
Both engines would not share this switch , would they.
Do both engines share t he same ground?
To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids 

Any thoughts on what to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.

SM Survey

volkmann@...
 

Hi, are there any good suryeyors gor Amel SM in northern Europe? What is the difference of the Red Line models? Thank you in advance 


Uwe

Amel Maramu

SY Kerbian

Re: Engines not starting

John Clark
 

Not sure which model you have but on my SM 37 there is one common starting battery for both the generator and motor.
  Reaching back to my days tinkering with old cars I have a couple of thoughts:

1. wiggling a switch then things work sounds like the switch is not making good contact.  I assume you are speaking of the battery disconnect switch, not the ignition/starter switch at the helm.    A high resistance connection could cause the symptoms of OK voltage without load,  but when you try to start there  is not enough current to do anything.  

2. If the battery is failing it might be able to show OK voltage but not have capacity to start the engines.  When you said after attempting to start the voltage measures 11.8,  was that while starting or after the attempts are completed?   

 If the starter motors don't fire there shouldn't have been a lot of drain on the battery.  That 11.8 after an attempt would then point me toward a bad battery.  But you already tried a different battery.  Are you sure all the batteries tried are good and properly charged?  

I am doing some work in the engine room later today, I will take a look at my starting circuit and let you know if I see anything that makes sense for these symptoms.

  Regards,  John

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Charleston SC


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote :

For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the engine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I determined last night ;
Neither engine will start.
Battery shows 12.6 V
Have 12.6 V at both solenoids   
Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches
When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.
After that Voltage only measures 11. 8
After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly
Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing
I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen
Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.
The glow plug lite does not even come on.
fuse is good on back side of Gen.
Solenoids don't click
Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.

It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines 
My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?
Both engines would not share this switch , would they.
Do both engines share the same ground?
To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids 

Any thoughts on what to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engines not starting

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Steve,

Check the following in order of probability:
  1. Load-test starting battery, or use the digital tester
  2. Check the connections on the starting battery...coat with corrosionX
  3. Coat all of the contacts on the two main battery switches
  4. Check all battery to engine connections
  5. Check starter and starter solenoid.
  6. Check the key switch (probably not this)
I am betting it is one of the first 3.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engines not starting

Stephen Davis
 

Have you load tested the starter battery?

Steve
Aloha SM72

On Jul 25, 2017, at 09:03, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the engine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I determined last night ;

Neither engine will start.
Battery shows 12.6 V
Have 12.6 V at both solenoids   
Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches
When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.
After that Voltage only measures 11. 8
After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly
Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing
I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen
Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.
The glow plug lite does not even come on.
fuse is good on back side of Gen.
Solenoids don't click
Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.

It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines 
My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?
Both engines would not share this switch , would they.
Do both engines share the same ground?
To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids 

Any thoughts on what to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.

Engines not starting

Patrick McAneny
 

For some time I have had an intermittent probably starting my Volvo engine , I would turn the battery switch on and off a few times and it would start . I don't know if that was coincidental or not. Last night we went out to go for a sail and the engine would not start and I discovered that the generator would not start either. I would trouble shoot this more myself , but a year ago and reconfirmed a week ago , I agreed to take an elderly couple and their family out on my boat for a sunset sail to celebrate their 50 th Anniversary , they are really looking forward to it and so need to solve this issue within five days. Below is what I determined last night ;
Neither engine will start.
Battery shows 12.6 V
Have 12.6 V at both solenoids   
Have 12.6 V at battery wires on back side of battery switches
When I turn the key , the fan comes on , turn the key to start and fan and gauges go dead.
After that Voltage only measures 11. 8
After short time , turn key and fan runs very slowly
Turn key again , fan does not run , gauges dead , even alarm button pushed , nothing
I switched wires to another 12v house battery , same things happen
Generator switch has 12.6 V at the terminals , five white wires , don't know which does what.
The glow plug lite does not even come on.
fuse is good on back side of Gen.
Solenoids don't click
Since battery voltage went down after key is turned a few times , I checked for heat on starter & solenoid , both cool to touch.

It seems logical that whatever the problem is , that it is affecting both engines 
My understanding is that when the key is turned , the ground is momentarily connected by a switch , where is this switch located ?
Both engines would not share this switch , would they.
Do both engines share the same ground?
To me it seems like corrosion on a terminal , but I get 12.6 on the back of the battery switches between the positive and negative wires , from there I have 12.6 at the solenoids 

Any thoughts on what to check or what may be my problem would be appreciated.