Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Two questions

 

Alan,

Good points.

All,

This "ground issue" gets very confusing to most people. Let me add to the confusion, or maybe add some humor...you be the judge:
  • The Amel Bonding System is NOT a GROUND.
  • Amel did not connect any electronic ground posts to the Amel Bonding system.
  • Further confusing the issue, Pouchon (Amel's electronics subcontractor) on some Amels connected a yellow/green wire to the ground terminal on some instruments, but terminated the other end without connection to anything. I have known some owners and some "expert" technicians to connect this yellow/green wire to the Amel Bonding System.
  • Raymarine has no idea what an Amel Bonding System is and really never defines "Ground" in any manual I have.
  • As someone who at a very young age (vacuum tube) built electronic radios, stereos, etc., I would connect the cases ("ground") of components together to reduce RFI.
  • I have no idea what Raymarine wishes to accomplish, but I assume that since they have to write manuals that are universal, they don't want a customer service issue for RFI. I have seen some RFI Floating Platforms disguised as cruising boats and when anchored nearby have been affected by the RFI they broadcast. I assume Raymarine develops an installation manual that reduces customer service issues from even these RFI floating platforms.
I hope the above helps more than it hurts...if not, maybe it was entertaining.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970





On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 11:13 AM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Herbert and Alan

Thank you, I will start by not connecting the shield then if I run into problem I know where to start digging
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259



Re: Two questions

Paul Osterberg
 

Herbert and Alan
Thank you, I will start by not connecting the shield then if I run into problem I know where to start digging
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259


Re: Gas shut off

mfmcgovern@...
 

Pat,

For what it's worth, I was poking around my propane locker last weekend and took some pics of the gas shutoff solenoid.  I have attached a picture of the Burkert part number 125301 solenoid label below.  The solenoid on my SM (Hull #440) is definitely a 24 Volt solenoid and is powered from the main 24V breaker panel.  It would seem very odd to me that Amel would have ever used a 12V solenoid for the gas shut off solenoid at any point in the building of SMs as I think they were built as 24V boats from the very beginning.  Someone with more knowledge/experience can correct me if I am wrong in that.

Regardless of whether it is 12v or 24V solenoid, Amel would have been required to put in some kind of switch in the galley in proximity to the stove to control the gas shutoff solenoid.  Does your main 24V panel have a breaker for the gas solenoid?  If so, that is where it gets it's power from and it would appear that someone replaced the 24V solenoid with a 12V solenoid.  That would obviously be bad as it would likely draw significantly more current than a 24V solenoid would assuming a similar coil resistance.

Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54007: Gear Box Part Number

 

SAV@... has them in stock. Caution, there is more than one model gear box on the 54. Include a photo and hull number when ordering. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 06:42 kurt.wetzel@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear All
The gearbox of the boom on my Amel 54 is broken. Can anyone provide me with the part and fabrication numbers?
Thank you very much
Kurt and Junita
SY Hemera
Flag Malta
MMSI 215000349
Current Location Greece, Lavrion



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gas shut off

 

Pat,

I believe your SM was modified. Other SMs the same vintage that I have seen had a manual valve. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 08:01 Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Kent, The solenoid is stamped 12v, originally I assumed it was 24v. I bought a more expensive tracer , but I can not get it to beep running the sensor all around the wires coming up into the compartment above the galley. I really wish all the wiring had been labeled. Is there a central point where 12v equipment is powered, like a buss bar somewhere. 

Thanks,
Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Fri, Jun 1, 2018 8:13 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gas shut off

 
Do you have power at the breaker on the 24v panel?  On Kristy the solenoid is 24v.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On May 31, 2018, at 8:18 AM, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I am not getting any power to my propane switch. I bought a wire tracer and cannot trace the wire. The solenoid is 12v . Does anyone know where the 12v power source would originate? I could not find a 12v buss bar . The solenoid works , I jumped it across the starter battery , with a meter I cannot find any voltage at the switch. It could be as simple as a blown fuse.
Thanks,
Pat SM#123


Repower questions

greatketch@...
 

A few questions for those of you who have repowered a Super Maramu—especially those who swapped out a Volvo TMD22.

What new engine did you use?
Did you use the same Hurth 250 transmission?
Are you happy with the new installation?
Where there any serious issues or complications?
Approximate cost?

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Central Chesapeake Bay, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Two questions

Ryan Meador
 

The drain and shield are connected together, and should be regarded as a single conductor.  The drain wire is a lot easier to attach to than the shield.

Maretron has this to say:
The NMEA 2000® network should be grounded at ONE location. Grounding at more than one location may produce ground loops, which can cause problems with communications on the network. In addition to the ground wire, connect the drain or SHIELD wire at the supply ground location and NO other place.

I take this to mean both ground and drain should be connected to the output of the 12V converter that is powering the system, which is the way it is set up on my boat.  This also matches general electrical engineering practice.

Part of the confusion I think is the use of the term "ground" for too many things.  Every circuit has a chosen point that is the zero-volt reference, and this is called ground.  The shield must be connected to the reference point of the power and signal wires to be effective.  But on an Amel, we also have the 24VDC ground and the AC ground, which are all distinct.  We even often call the DC ground by the slightly-inaccurate name "DC negative" to emphasize that it isn't connected to the AC ground.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 4:11 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

In the NMEA 2000 scheme there is a DRAIN wire and a SHIELD.

The recommendation is that both should be connected to GROUND at ONE POINT ONLY.
Problems have been caused it seems by earth loops where the drain and / or shield have been grounded at more than one point.
On most boats the ground connection is connected to battery -ve which maybe the cause of these earth loop problems as they now effectively have multiple ground connections.
Amel boats do not have a connection between battery -ve and ground.
So on our boats, my instinct tells me that the drain and ground should be connected to ships ground to eliminate interference problems from RF....from VHF or SSB for example 
However if the NMEA 2000 system has issues as you have said, then disconnecting that ground connection is not going to harm anything....and if there are issues it may be worth disconnecting the drain or ground from ships ground to see if either makes any difference. In any event you won't damage any equipment by doing that.
Just what I think...I may be wrong...it has been known !
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
Malumu Bay, Beqa



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gas shut off

karkauai
 

If it’s 12v, it would have to be powered by the 24-12 converters or the starting battery, Pat.  On Kristy there’s a breaker for it on the 24v panel with a light that indicates it’s on.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243

On Jun 1, 2018, at 8:59 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent, The solenoid is stamped 12v, originally I assumed it was 24v. I bought a more expensive tracer , but I can not get it to beep running the sensor all around the wires coming up into the compartment above the galley. I really wish all the wiring had been labeled. Is there a central point where 12v equipment is powered, like a buss bar somewhere. 

Thanks,
Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Fri, Jun 1, 2018 8:13 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gas shut off

 
Do you have power at the breaker on the 24v panel?  On Kristy the solenoid is 24v.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On May 31, 2018, at 8:18 AM, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I am not getting any power to my propane switch. I bought a wire tracer and cannot trace the wire. The solenoid is 12v . Does anyone know where the 12v power source would originate? I could not find a 12v buss bar . The solenoid works , I jumped it across the starter battery , with a meter I cannot find any voltage at the switch. It could be as simple as a blown fuse.
Thanks,
Pat SM#123


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gas shut off

Patrick McAneny
 

Kent, The solenoid is stamped 12v, originally I assumed it was 24v. I bought a more expensive tracer , but I can not get it to beep running the sensor all around the wires coming up into the compartment above the galley. I really wish all the wiring had been labeled. Is there a central point where 12v equipment is powered, like a buss bar somewhere. 
Thanks,
Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Fri, Jun 1, 2018 8:13 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gas shut off

 
Do you have power at the breaker on the 24v panel?  On Kristy the solenoid is 24v.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On May 31, 2018, at 8:18 AM, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I am not getting any power to my propane switch. I bought a wire tracer and cannot trace the wire. The solenoid is 12v . Does anyone know where the 12v power source would originate? I could not find a 12v buss bar . The solenoid works , I jumped it across the starter battery , with a meter I cannot find any voltage at the switch. It could be as simple as a blown fuse.
Thanks,
Pat SM#123


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gas shut off

karkauai
 

Do you have power at the breaker on the 24v panel?  On Kristy the solenoid is 24v.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On May 31, 2018, at 8:18 AM, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I am not getting any power to my propane switch. I bought a wire tracer and cannot trace the wire. The solenoid is 12v . Does anyone know where the 12v power source would originate? I could not find a 12v buss bar . The solenoid works , I jumped it across the starter battery , with a meter I cannot find any voltage at the switch. It could be as simple as a blown fuse.

Thanks,

Pat SM#123


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wood trim around Vee berth windows

karkauai
 

Great, thanks Danny.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On May 31, 2018, at 7:31 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

I used a high quality single pot spar varnish to do those trims around the overhead hatches. Looks good and matches the original.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 01 June 2018 at 11:17 "karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I finally got the wood trim off of the cabin sides around the porch lights. They were just stuck with copious amounts of what appears to be clear silicone. I am in the process of taking all of the old finish off and will need to re-seal the wood and finish it. I would like to use the same finish that a male used at the time of the original build. Does anyone know what finish was used? I’m guessing it’s a high tech two part polyurethane. Do you know if any stain was used?

Joel?
Olivier?

Thanks
Kent
SM 243
Kristy
St Michaels MD


 


 


Amel 54007: Gear Box Part Number

kurt.wetzel@...
 

Dear All
The gearbox of the boom on my Amel 54 is broken. Can anyone provide me with the part and fabrication numbers?
Thank you very much
Kurt and Junita
SY Hemera
Flag Malta
MMSI 215000349
Current Location Greece, Lavrion



Re: Two questions

Alan Leslie
 

In the NMEA 2000 scheme there is a DRAIN wire and a SHIELD.
The recommendation is that both should be connected to GROUND at ONE POINT ONLY.
Problems have been caused it seems by earth loops where the drain and / or shield have been grounded at more than one point.
On most boats the ground connection is connected to battery -ve which maybe the cause of these earth loop problems as they now effectively have multiple ground connections.
Amel boats do not have a connection between battery -ve and ground.
So on our boats, my instinct tells me that the drain and ground should be connected to ships ground to eliminate interference problems from RF....from VHF or SSB for example 
However if the NMEA 2000 system has issues as you have said, then disconnecting that ground connection is not going to harm anything....and if there are issues it may be worth disconnecting the drain or ground from ships ground to see if either makes any difference. In any event you won't damage any equipment by doing that.
Just what I think...I may be wrong...it has been known !
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
Malumu Bay, Beqa


Re: Two questions

Herbert Lackner
 

Hi Paul, we changed all electronics to raymarine 4 years ago. I removed the ground after having strange behaviour of the system, is running fine now since 4 years without ground. Was in contact with raymrine to find out what the problem was and in the end they recommended not to ground it...

Herbert, KALI MERA, SN120


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Two questions

Paul Osterberg
 

Thank you for confirming 12v
Paul


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Two questions

Stephen Davis
 

Hi Paul,

All Raymarine/Autohelm drive clutches are 12v. I’m guessing they give you the 12/24 option on the course computer in case you are using a non Ray drive. 

Regards,

Steve Davis
Aloha SM #72
Hawaii

On May 31, 2018, at 18:51, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

We we are in the process of substituting the old B&G instruments with Raymarine instruments.

The new NMEA 2000 backbone system should be grounded. You who have NMEA 2000 how did you ground your system?

We are also putting in a new modern computer for the old and still well working Autohelm autopilots. If I remember right the clutch for both the linear and rotar drive is on 12 v and not 24 v. Anyone who can confirm that clutch should be 12 v

Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259


Two questions

Paul Osterberg
 

We we are in the process of substituting the old B&G instruments with Raymarine instruments.

The new NMEA 2000 backbone system should be grounded. You who have NMEA 2000 how did you ground your system?

We are also putting in a new modern computer for the old and still well working Autohelm autopilots. If I remember right the clutch for both the linear and rotar drive is on 12 v and not 24 v. Anyone who can confirm that clutch should be 12 v

Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wood trim around Vee berth windows

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent,

I used a high quality single pot spar varnish to do those trims around the overhead hatches. Looks good and matches the original.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 01 June 2018 at 11:17 "karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I finally got the wood trim off of the cabin sides around the porch lights. They were just stuck with copious amounts of what appears to be clear silicone. I am in the process of taking all of the old finish off and will need to re-seal the wood and finish it. I would like to use the same finish that a male used at the time of the original build. Does anyone know what finish was used? I’m guessing it’s a high tech two part polyurethane. Do you know if any stain was used?

Joel?
Olivier?

Thanks
Kent
SM 243
Kristy
St Michaels MD


 


 


Re: Wood trim around Vee berth windows

karkauai
 

I finally got the wood trim off of the cabin sides around the porch lights. They were just stuck with copious amounts of what appears to be clear silicone. I am in the process of taking all of the old finish off and will need to re-seal the wood and finish it. I would like to use the same finish that a male used at the time of the original build. Does anyone know what finish was used? I’m guessing it’s a high tech two part polyurethane. Do you know if any stain was used?

Joel?
Olivier?

Thanks
Kent
SM 243
Kristy
St Michaels MD


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM 2000 hull 283 delamination on deck

johnericmorton@...
 

Hi Joel

Thank you for your prompt reply and guidance.

There are very few Amels in NZ. I don't think the Surveyor had ever seen an Amel before.......

In this case, I've learnt that it's a bit more complex than a normal condition survey at time of purchase because Alin has in mind possibly taking out paying customers for sailing / diving trips. This means that Wanderer will need to be put "in survey" to the satisfaction of the relevant NZ agency. This is a very rigorous process - any boat going "into survey" must meet the current NZ requirements for design, construction, electrical wiring regulations etc as if the boat is a newly built NZ boat.   Hence there are "norms" such as design checks and approval and dropping down the keel for inspection of the bolts for survey as well as probably pulling out the prop shaft to check condition. All easy to do if the boat is under construction in NZ.  :)-    There is a process for applying for exemptions to these "in survey" requirements.

Fortunately the Electrical Inspector and the Surveyor were impressed with the design, overall quality, fit out, and condition. Good documentation (manuals and the standard drawings / plans) are a big plus for their design checks and their approval for "in survey".

It seems the Surveyor is happy - the results of his  "deck tapping" seems to be advisory only, not a requirement for putting Wanderer "in survey" as a requirement for use for commercial reward.

As there seems to be no history of deck de-lamination issues with Amels, this may be prove to be a red herring, the local Surveyor mentioned possible minor air gap voids at time of construction?    

Perhaps all Amel decks respond with the same beautiful tapping sounds (music to my ears) depending on the location of supports / iron wood / balsa and changes (by design) in materials and thicknesses.


Best Regards


John Morton

Amel Super Maramu #283

Auckland, New Zealand.

19281 - 19300 of 59237