[Amel Yacht Owners] RE:[Amel Keel


arvaloet <arvaloet@...>
 

I have recently had a look at the keel bolts inside the water tank. I
could only inspect some of them since the rest of the bolts are, I
think, under the fidge/freezer beneath the dining table settee (I
would welcome suggestions as to how to remove this fridge. Of the
bolts I did inspect one of them is showing rust stains seeping through
the gelcoat which covers all bolts. Since they are stainless steel I
am quite worried about this issue.

Any comments?
If I were to have this checked professionaly, who would do it in the Med?

Thanks
Fernando
SM 146 Ingot


--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "Joel F. Potter"
<jfpottercys@...> wrote:

This comes from Joel Potter the boat owner not Joel Potter in any
capacity regarding my
professional work with my colleagues at AMEL. Sorry, my lawyer
insists on this.

Sorry for the delay on this post. Clients intervened and I
misplaced it. Just today I
was reminded by a patiently waiting friend that I had yet to post it.

The most important thing to consider when repairing/replacing the
keel coatings are as
follows:

Select a well known and respected brand name for all the component
elements and DON'T MIX
any part with components from another manufacturer. This is
particularly important when
employing solvents/cleaners, thinners, bulking material, catylizers,
and fairing
compounds. To do so is almost always a recipe for disaster. Use
epoxy materials. Do not
use polyester.

Read the instructions. Read them again. And again…Instructions are
there for a reason
and each brand has it's own quirks. Be sure to understand the
entire process completely
from start to finish before you begin. Just good common sense here.
Sorry…

When considering to repair or entirely replace the coatings on the
external iron ballast,
consider age as well as condition. Ten to fifteen years, on the
average, seems to be the
life span for the epoxy coatings in warm Caribbean water. Colder
water is not as harsh an
environment so you can count on a few more years generally.

Buy a small amount of epoxy and solvent of the brand of your choice.
Sand a well attached
area of the present keel coating to remove the bottom
paint/antifouling only. Heavily
saturate a shop towel with the chosen solvent and secure it firmly
to the exposed keel
coatings. Keep an eye on it for spontaneous combustion in hot/humid
areas (ask me how I
know this!) Mix a small batch of epoxy and spread it on the present
keel coatings (after
sanding off the anti-fouling) fairly thick about 3"x 3" x ¼". Have
a beer. Have another
one. After the solvent has evaporated and the epoxy hardened, look
for bubbling or
lifting around the edges. Go home for the evening.

Next day, scrape firmly on the solvent soaked area and the new epoxy
"patch". Are the
original coatings solid? Any evidence of loss of adhesion or
bubbling? If so you have
two choices. Try the same process with another brand of replacement
materials or remove
ALL the coatings on the iron keel before replacing it all. If your
coatings are near the
end of their life expectancy, this last suggestion is usually for
the best overall
solution.

However you remove the original keel coatings remember, ALL THIS
STUFF IS POISON. IT WILL
MAKE YOU WISH YOU HAD DIED IF IT DOESN'T KILL YOU. Wear a plastic
toxic exposure suit,
and an appropriate respirator, eye protection and foam ear plugs.
Gloves are essential.

All of the epoxy coatings that have proven to work effectively have
two things in common
in the preparation phase of the iron keel. These are:

1. The keel should be sanded/grinded/soda or sand blasted until ONLY
BRIGHT SHINY iron is exposed. No residual coatings or corrosion
is to be tolerated. The iron should look like silver.

2. From the time the iron keel is prepared to it's bright shiny
state, you
have at best a matter of a very few minutes to get the
primer/sealer coat
on the bright metal. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT
OF THIS REPAIR. If you wait more than a couple of minutes, rust
begins at a microscopic level where you can't see it, but it is
there. This
will cause the spread of this rust/oxidation once the iron is
coated and
anti-fouled and will greatly reduce the life of the repair. I
had one
unfortunate acquaintance who sand blasted his keel in the afternoon
and coated it the next morning. It was good material from
International
and it all, and I mean ALL came unattached in three weeks time. I
always prepare and coat an area of about 1' X 3" before moving
on to
the next section of keel.

I digress here but this is important. Your AMEL keel is IRON. Not
STEEL. There is quite
a difference.

I try to use all materials, including bottom paint/anti-fouling from
one manufacturer.
It's easier to get a satisfactory resolution to any eventual problem
when all fingers
point in one direction.

Good luck. Don't forget the respirator…

Joel Potter
AMEL 54, Hull # 14, HOLLIS









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Richard Piller <richard03801@...>
 

Dave, given tthat Amel changed the resen mix in the
prior to your boat being built there is no real need
to strip and use a barrier coat. Regarding the keel
to hull joint area that is not normally a big deal
unless there is some damage to joint.

I don't know the area of the hull out however be sure
the air temp is over 50 F when you paint. IF you do
remove all the old paint be very careful not to in
harm the gelcoat. If you do then use a good barrier
coat. If you don't don't...

The more important issue what kind of paint is on the
bottom... be sure that what you plan to use is ok
with what is there.

Good luck
Richard SM 209

--- drdavegoodman <drdavegoodman@gmail.com> wrote:

I will be hauling out in November to redo bottom
paint on a 1998 SM
#230. I have read the postings about the iron keel,
hull, general
absence of blisters on Amel's. Joel's comments
regarding taking
special care when preparing and painting the keel
are duely noted.
When I purchased the boat in April this year, the
surveyor recommended
removing the old layers of bottom paint prior to
repainting, as past
uneven hard bottom paint application has resulted in
an uneven
surface. Others have suggested that if I was going
to do that, I
might as well apply an epoxy barrier coat prior to
repainting. The
boat has been in the Caribbean its entire life. I
plan to sail up the
East Coast of US next year, and also perhaps to Med.
My questions
are: If the barrier coat between keel and hull is
in good condition,
is any addtional barrier coat needed? And/or,
regardless of the
condition of the barrier coat between keel and hull,
is it a good idea
to put a barrier coat on the below waterline hull?
What about use of
a primer? Any other thoughts on the matter?
Thanks
Dave
s/v Bel Ami
SM#230



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drdavegoodman
 

I will be hauling out in November to redo bottom paint on a 1998 SM
#230. I have read the postings about the iron keel, hull, general
absence of blisters on Amel's. Joel's comments regarding taking
special care when preparing and painting the keel are duely noted.
When I purchased the boat in April this year, the surveyor recommended
removing the old layers of bottom paint prior to repainting, as past
uneven hard bottom paint application has resulted in an uneven
surface. Others have suggested that if I was going to do that, I
might as well apply an epoxy barrier coat prior to repainting. The
boat has been in the Caribbean its entire life. I plan to sail up the
East Coast of US next year, and also perhaps to Med. My questions
are: If the barrier coat between keel and hull is in good condition,
is any addtional barrier coat needed? And/or, regardless of the
condition of the barrier coat between keel and hull, is it a good idea
to put a barrier coat on the below waterline hull? What about use of
a primer? Any other thoughts on the matter?
Thanks
Dave
s/v Bel Ami
SM#230


amelforme
 

Whoops! Regarding the keel coating instructions, there's a typo. Of
Course 1' X 3" should be 1' X 3' or 30 cm X 91 cm. Sorry.

In response to Bob on Brittany de la Mer, the metal parts securing the
rudder to the skeg are stainless steel. Be sure to add some
texture/roughen up the surface before coating. There is a bronze
"DYNA-PLATE" on the actual skeg itself which should never be
painted. Usually a good pressure washing when hauled, followed by
using a bronze bristled hand brush will restore the "DYNA PLATE"
to it's original condition. This is the ground plate for SSB/HAM
radio and it won't work if it is painted.

Good Luck
Joel F. Potter, AMEL 54, Hull # 14, HOLLIS


rossirossix4 <equinoxsolstice@...>
 

Skeg question--(thanks for the detailed information, Joel)--Is the
skeg the same? I have a similar problem with some exposed metal on
the skeg of my 1993 Santorin. Do the same recommendations apply?

Bob
Brittany de la Mer

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "Joel F. Potter"
<jfpottercys@...> wrote:

This comes from Joel Potter the boat owner not Joel Potter in any
capacity regarding my
professional work with my colleagues at AMEL. Sorry, my lawyer
insists on this.

Sorry for the delay on this post. Clients intervened and I
misplaced it. Just today I
was reminded by a patiently waiting friend that I had yet to post
it.

The most important thing to consider when repairing/replacing the
keel coatings are as
follows:

Select a well known and respected brand name for all the component
elements and DON'T MIX
any part with components from another manufacturer. This is
particularly important when
employing solvents/cleaners, thinners, bulking material,
catylizers, and fairing
compounds. To do so is almost always a recipe for disaster. Use
epoxy materials. Do not
use polyester.

Read the instructions. Read them again. And again…Instructions
are there for a reason
and each brand has it's own quirks. Be sure to understand the
entire process completely
from start to finish before you begin. Just good common sense
here. Sorry…

When considering to repair or entirely replace the coatings on the
external iron ballast,
consider age as well as condition. Ten to fifteen years, on the
average, seems to be the
life span for the epoxy coatings in warm Caribbean water. Colder
water is not as harsh an
environment so you can count on a few more years generally.

Buy a small amount of epoxy and solvent of the brand of your
choice. Sand a well attached
area of the present keel coating to remove the bottom
paint/antifouling only. Heavily
saturate a shop towel with the chosen solvent and secure it firmly
to the exposed keel
coatings. Keep an eye on it for spontaneous combustion in
hot/humid areas (ask me how I
know this!) Mix a small batch of epoxy and spread it on the
present keel coatings (after
sanding off the anti-fouling) fairly thick about 3"x 3" x ¼". Have
a beer. Have another
one. After the solvent has evaporated and the epoxy hardened, look
for bubbling or
lifting around the edges. Go home for the evening.

Next day, scrape firmly on the solvent soaked area and the new
epoxy "patch". Are the
original coatings solid? Any evidence of loss of adhesion or
bubbling? If so you have
two choices. Try the same process with another brand of
replacement materials or remove
ALL the coatings on the iron keel before replacing it all. If your
coatings are near the
end of their life expectancy, this last suggestion is usually for
the best overall
solution.

However you remove the original keel coatings remember, ALL THIS
STUFF IS POISON. IT WILL
MAKE YOU WISH YOU HAD DIED IF IT DOESN'T KILL YOU. Wear a plastic
toxic exposure suit,
and an appropriate respirator, eye protection and foam ear plugs.
Gloves are essential.

All of the epoxy coatings that have proven to work effectively have
two things in common
in the preparation phase of the iron keel. These are:

1. The keel should be sanded/grinded/soda or sand blasted until
ONLY
BRIGHT SHINY iron is exposed. No residual coatings or
corrosion
is to be tolerated. The iron should look like silver.

2. From the time the iron keel is prepared to it's bright shiny
state, you
have at best a matter of a very few minutes to get the
primer/sealer coat
on the bright metal. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT
OF THIS REPAIR. If you wait more than a couple of minutes,
rust
begins at a microscopic level where you can't see it, but it is
there. This
will cause the spread of this rust/oxidation once the iron is
coated and
anti-fouled and will greatly reduce the life of the repair. I
had one
unfortunate acquaintance who sand blasted his keel in the
afternoon
and coated it the next morning. It was good material from
International
and it all, and I mean ALL came unattached in three weeks
time. I
always prepare and coat an area of about 1' X 3" before moving
on to
the next section of keel.

I digress here but this is important. Your AMEL keel is IRON. Not
STEEL. There is quite
a difference.

I try to use all materials, including bottom paint/anti-fouling
from one manufacturer.
It's easier to get a satisfactory resolution to any eventual
problem when all fingers
point in one direction.

Good luck. Don't forget the respirator…

Joel Potter
AMEL 54, Hull # 14, HOLLIS









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


amelforme
 

This comes from Joel Potter the boat owner not Joel Potter in any capacity regarding my
professional work with my colleagues at AMEL. Sorry, my lawyer insists on this.

Sorry for the delay on this post. Clients intervened and I misplaced it. Just today I
was reminded by a patiently waiting friend that I had yet to post it.

The most important thing to consider when repairing/replacing the keel coatings are as
follows:

Select a well known and respected brand name for all the component elements and DON'T MIX
any part with components from another manufacturer. This is particularly important when
employing solvents/cleaners, thinners, bulking material, catylizers, and fairing
compounds. To do so is almost always a recipe for disaster. Use epoxy materials. Do not
use polyester.

Read the instructions. Read them again. And again…Instructions are there for a reason
and each brand has it's own quirks. Be sure to understand the entire process completely
from start to finish before you begin. Just good common sense here. Sorry…

When considering to repair or entirely replace the coatings on the external iron ballast,
consider age as well as condition. Ten to fifteen years, on the average, seems to be the
life span for the epoxy coatings in warm Caribbean water. Colder water is not as harsh an
environment so you can count on a few more years generally.

Buy a small amount of epoxy and solvent of the brand of your choice. Sand a well attached
area of the present keel coating to remove the bottom paint/antifouling only. Heavily
saturate a shop towel with the chosen solvent and secure it firmly to the exposed keel
coatings. Keep an eye on it for spontaneous combustion in hot/humid areas (ask me how I
know this!) Mix a small batch of epoxy and spread it on the present keel coatings (after
sanding off the anti-fouling) fairly thick about 3"x 3" x ¼". Have a beer. Have another
one. After the solvent has evaporated and the epoxy hardened, look for bubbling or
lifting around the edges. Go home for the evening.

Next day, scrape firmly on the solvent soaked area and the new epoxy "patch". Are the
original coatings solid? Any evidence of loss of adhesion or bubbling? If so you have
two choices. Try the same process with another brand of replacement materials or remove
ALL the coatings on the iron keel before replacing it all. If your coatings are near the
end of their life expectancy, this last suggestion is usually for the best overall
solution.

However you remove the original keel coatings remember, ALL THIS STUFF IS POISON. IT WILL
MAKE YOU WISH YOU HAD DIED IF IT DOESN'T KILL YOU. Wear a plastic toxic exposure suit,
and an appropriate respirator, eye protection and foam ear plugs. Gloves are essential.

All of the epoxy coatings that have proven to work effectively have two things in common
in the preparation phase of the iron keel. These are:

1. The keel should be sanded/grinded/soda or sand blasted until ONLY
BRIGHT SHINY iron is exposed. No residual coatings or corrosion
is to be tolerated. The iron should look like silver.

2. From the time the iron keel is prepared to it's bright shiny state, you
have at best a matter of a very few minutes to get the primer/sealer coat
on the bright metal. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT
OF THIS REPAIR. If you wait more than a couple of minutes, rust
begins at a microscopic level where you can't see it, but it is there. This
will cause the spread of this rust/oxidation once the iron is coated and
anti-fouled and will greatly reduce the life of the repair. I had one
unfortunate acquaintance who sand blasted his keel in the afternoon
and coated it the next morning. It was good material from International
and it all, and I mean ALL came unattached in three weeks time. I
always prepare and coat an area of about 1' X 3" before moving on to
the next section of keel.

I digress here but this is important. Your AMEL keel is IRON. Not STEEL. There is quite
a difference.

I try to use all materials, including bottom paint/anti-fouling from one manufacturer.
It's easier to get a satisfactory resolution to any eventual problem when all fingers
point in one direction.

Good luck. Don't forget the respirator…

Joel Potter
AMEL 54, Hull # 14, HOLLIS









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]