[Amel Yacht Owners] Sink/Shower grey water


Roger Banks <roger.banks@...>
 

Hi Hugh

I considered the subject but abandoned it when I recalled that grey
water is used mainly to flush toilets and water gardens, the former
being done with sea water and the latter hardly applies. Use a
desalinator and avoid all that sludge in your bilges.

Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba

On 20/09/2007, at 4:26 PM, hughlevins wrote:

Greetings, can I ask advice regarding the routing all sink/shower grey
water into the bilges? This is for a new boat not yet constructed. Is
there a revised arrangement that AMEL might be persuaded to
incorporate
during the construction? Or maybe the current arrangement is not
likely
to be a problem, as I imagine? I understand from previous
correspondance that leaf filters or ladies nylon sock-ends may well be
usefull ideas to retrofit in the future.
Fair winds,
Hugh



Judy Rouse
 

I am totally confused by your response regarding grey water. Perhaps
the term needs to be defined. The only marine definition of grey
water that I am familiar with is the water run-off from the showers
and sinks in the head and the galley sink. Toilet water is termed
black water. At least those are the commonly used definitions of grey
water and black water in the marine industry in the US. In parts of
the Great Lakes, for example, release of any grey water is banned. In
all US waters the release of black water is banned.

Please explain how using a desalinator avoids the sludge in the bilge.

As to the original question, we have experienced no problems with grey
water going to the sump bilge on our Super Maramu. We have not used
nylon stockings or other secondary filtration methods. If not cleaned
frequently, the sump bilge will stink to high heaven. It must be
cleaned periodically. We have encountered no problems in function with
the sump bilge as designed by Amel. The original poster might want to
invest in a wet/dry vac to make cleaning this bilge an easy job.

Judy
S/V BeBe
Amel SM2 #387

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Roger Banks <roger.banks@...>
wrote:

Hi Hugh

I considered the subject but abandoned it when I recalled that grey
water is used mainly to flush toilets and water gardens, the former
being done with sea water and the latter hardly applies. Use a
desalinator and avoid all that sludge in your bilges.

Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba


Roger Banks <roger.banks@...>
 

Aggression I can do without, thanks, go jump down someone else's
throat. Clearly you didn't read my post or spend a moment thinking
about it.

In Australia at least, recycling sink water containing any food is
considered a health risk without treatment, so needs to be let go. So
the question is whether to capture & recycle shower & basin water or
not. Desalinators like to be run as much as possible (see earlier
posts), thus giving fresh water for washing/showering. QED.

Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba

On 21/09/2007, at 3:51 AM, Judy wrote:

I am totally confused by your response regarding grey water. Perhaps
the term needs to be defined. The only marine definition of grey
water that I am familiar with is the water run-off from the showers
and sinks in the head and the galley sink. Toilet water is termed
black water. At least those are the commonly used definitions of grey
water and black water in the marine industry in the US. In parts of
the Great Lakes, for example, release of any grey water is banned. In
all US waters the release of black water is banned.

Please explain how using a desalinator avoids the sludge in the bilge.

As to the original question, we have experienced no problems with grey
water going to the sump bilge on our Super Maramu. We have not used
nylon stockings or other secondary filtration methods. If not cleaned
frequently, the sump bilge will stink to high heaven. It must be
cleaned periodically. We have encountered no problems in function with
the sump bilge as designed by Amel. The original poster might want to
invest in a wet/dry vac to make cleaning this bilge an easy job.

Judy
S/V BeBe
Amel SM2 #387

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Roger Banks <roger.banks@...>
wrote:

Hi Hugh

I considered the subject but abandoned it when I recalled that grey
water is used mainly to flush toilets and water gardens, the former
being done with sea water and the latter hardly applies. Use a
desalinator and avoid all that sludge in your bilges.

Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba


Judy Rouse
 

Sorry if you thought my first posting was aggressive because that was
not the intent. But your second posting has me just as totally
confused as your first. I have read both several times and do not
understand what you are saying as regards grey water in an Amel. The
original poster inquired about the Amel standard method of draining
shower and sink water (grey water) into what we call the sump bilge.
He did not mention anything about desalination and I truly don't see
how desalination has anything to do with how the shower and sink
drain-off water is handled. I understand his question to be whether
there is a better method of handling this grey water than the standard
manner in which Amel boats are plumbed to drain to the sump bilge.

Others in the past have posted that they use secondary filtration
systems to prevent small items of trash from entering the sump bilge.
We have had no problems with this and do not use a secondary
filtration system of any kind. Our previous boat drained the galley
sink grey water directly overboard without any pump required, and had
sump pumps to drain the shower and head sink grey water overboard.
Perhaps the original poster was thinking of a similar arrangement, but
our experience with the way Amel does the system of handling grey
water is better than our last boat because the Amel requires only one
sump pump instead of two or more.

Perhaps the original poster could clarify his query.

Judy
S/V BeBe
Amel SM2 #387

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Roger Banks <roger.banks@...>
wrote:

Aggression I can do without, thanks, go jump down someone else's
throat. Clearly you didn't read my post or spend a moment thinking
about it.

In Australia at least, recycling sink water containing any food is
considered a health risk without treatment, so needs to be let go. So
the question is whether to capture & recycle shower & basin water or
not. Desalinators like to be run as much as possible (see earlier
posts), thus giving fresh water for washing/showering. QED.

Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba



On 21/09/2007, at 3:51 AM, Judy wrote:

I am totally confused by your response regarding grey water. Perhaps
the term needs to be defined. The only marine definition of grey
water that I am familiar with is the water run-off from the showers
and sinks in the head and the galley sink. Toilet water is termed
black water. At least those are the commonly used definitions of grey
water and black water in the marine industry in the US. In parts of
the Great Lakes, for example, release of any grey water is banned. In
all US waters the release of black water is banned.

Please explain how using a desalinator avoids the sludge in the bilge.

As to the original question, we have experienced no problems with grey
water going to the sump bilge on our Super Maramu. We have not used
nylon stockings or other secondary filtration methods. If not cleaned
frequently, the sump bilge will stink to high heaven. It must be
cleaned periodically. We have encountered no problems in function with
the sump bilge as designed by Amel. The original poster might want to
invest in a wet/dry vac to make cleaning this bilge an easy job.

Judy
S/V BeBe
Amel SM2 #387

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Roger Banks <roger.banks@>
wrote:

Hi Hugh

I considered the subject but abandoned it when I recalled that grey
water is used mainly to flush toilets and water gardens, the former
being done with sea water and the latter hardly applies. Use a
desalinator and avoid all that sludge in your bilges.

Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Ian Shepherd
 

Hi Roger,

I am afraid that I am also totally confused by your posts. You seem to be
confusing two separate areas of marine operation. I too have a Super Maramu
and have had no problems at all with the great water bilge arrangement. It's
a blessing to have the shower water go to the grey water bilge by gravity
rather than run noisy pump out motors. My only complaint about the system is
that if you forget to operate the manual override switch before docking, it
can pump out a full bilge when you are not expecting it and in full view of
the marina. It would have been better to have an 'off' switch as well.

Having spent much time travelling into Australia, I can understand the over
reaction of the Australian Authorities. From what you say, throwing scraps
of food over the side to feed the fish may also be a health hazard! Not in
most parts of the world Mate!

Cheers

Ian SM 414 Crusader

-------Original Message-------

From: Roger Banks
Date: 09/20/07 22:29:18
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Sink/Shower grey water

Aggression I can do without, thanks, go jump down someone else's
throat. Clearly you didn't read my post or spend a moment thinking
about it.

In Australia at least, recycling sink water containing any food is
considered a health risk without treatment, so needs to be let go. So
the question is whether to capture & recycle shower & basin water or
not. Desalinators like to be run as much as possible (see earlier
posts), thus giving fresh water for washing/showering. QED.

Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba

On 21/09/2007, at 3:51 AM, Judy wrote:

I am totally confused by your response regarding grey water. Perhaps
the term needs to be defined. The only marine definition of grey
water that I am familiar with is the water run-off from the showers
and sinks in the head and the galley sink. Toilet water is termed
black water. At least those are the commonly used definitions of grey
water and black water in the marine industry in the US. In parts of
the Great Lakes, for example, release of any grey water is banned. In
all US waters the release of black water is banned.

Please explain how using a desalinator avoids the sludge in the bilge.

As to the original question, we have experienced no problems with grey
water going to the sump bilge on our Super Maramu. We have not used
nylon stockings or other secondary filtration methods. If not cleaned
frequently, the sump bilge will stink to high heaven. It must be
cleaned periodically. We have encountered no problems in function with
the sump bilge as designed by Amel. The original poster might want to
invest in a wet/dry vac to make cleaning this bilge an easy job.

Judy
S/V BeBe
Amel SM2 #387

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Roger Banks <roger.banks@...>
wrote:

Hi Hugh

I considered the subject but abandoned it when I recalled that grey
water is used mainly to flush toilets and water gardens, the former
being done with sea water and the latter hardly applies. Use a
desalinator and avoid all that sludge in your bilges.

Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba


dlm48@...
 

DOWN BOY!!!

The only angry aggressive response i have seen is yours - perhaps you want
to take a chill pill OR write in a more lucid and understandable manner. Have
you ever considered that the reason you are not getting the 'right'
responses is that your are posting in a manner that is somewhat confusing - QED

regards

David

In a message dated 20/09/2007 23:27:00 GMT Daylight Time,
roger.banks@... writes:

Aggression I can do without, thanks, go jump down someone else's
throat. Clearly you didn't read my post or spend a moment thinking
about it.

In Australia at least, recycling sink water containing any food is
considered a health risk without treatment, so needs to be let go. So
the question is whether to capture & recycle shower & basin water or
not. Desalinators like to be run as much as possible (see earlier
posts), thus giving fresh water for washing/showering. QED.

Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba


Roger Banks <roger.banks@...>
 

Hi Ian

I would agree with you and Judy if the original post was about what
you are suggesting, but I read it differently and was awaiting his
clarification.

By the way, on my Mango, the sink and basins empty through the side,
above the water line, and only the shower goes into the sump by
gravity and is emptied by the bilge pump. I once gave consideration
to recycling and it was from that experience I responded; I realized
I am well off with the Mango arrangement, and could be more so with
yours as you get even more soap regularly neutralizing any bilge
greases. Not sure about food scraps from the sink though, sounds
disgusting and likely to clog the bilge pump; no wonder Judy reports
have to clean out the sump which i don't seem to need to do.

I really don't think it's in the spirit of a forum to browbeat other
respondents, which is likely to frighten them away (not me though, no
worries). Wish I'd had the same level of response when I requested
the section diameter of the forestay recently (twice).

Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba

On 21/09/2007, at 4:28 PM, Ian Shepherd wrote:

Hi Roger,

I am afraid that I am also totally confused by your posts. You seem
to be
confusing two separate areas of marine operation. I too have a
Super Maramu
and have had no problems at all with the great water bilge
arrangement. It's
a blessing to have the shower water go to the grey water bilge by
gravity
rather than run noisy pump out motors. My only complaint about the
system is
that if you forget to operate the manual override switch before
docking, it
can pump out a full bilge when you are not expecting it and in full
view of
the marina. It would have been better to have an 'off' switch as well.

Having spent much time travelling into Australia, I can understand
the over
reaction of the Australian Authorities. From what you say, throwing
scraps
of food over the side to feed the fish may also be a health hazard!
Not in
most parts of the world Mate!

Cheers

Ian SM 414 Crusader

-------Original Message-------

From: Roger Banks
Date: 09/20/07 22:29:18
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Sink/Shower grey water

Aggression I can do without, thanks, go jump down someone else's
throat. Clearly you didn't read my post or spend a moment thinking
about it.

In Australia at least, recycling sink water containing any food is
considered a health risk without treatment, so needs to be let go. So
the question is whether to capture & recycle shower & basin water or
not. Desalinators like to be run as much as possible (see earlier
posts), thus giving fresh water for washing/showering. QED.

Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba

On 21/09/2007, at 3:51 AM, Judy wrote:

I am totally confused by your response regarding grey water. Perhaps
the term needs to be defined. The only marine definition of grey
water that I am familiar with is the water run-off from the showers
and sinks in the head and the galley sink. Toilet water is termed
black water. At least those are the commonly used definitions of
grey
water and black water in the marine industry in the US. In parts of
the Great Lakes, for example, release of any grey water is
banned. In
all US waters the release of black water is banned.

Please explain how using a desalinator avoids the sludge in the
bilge.

As to the original question, we have experienced no problems with
grey
water going to the sump bilge on our Super Maramu. We have not used
nylon stockings or other secondary filtration methods. If not
cleaned
frequently, the sump bilge will stink to high heaven. It must be
cleaned periodically. We have encountered no problems in function
with
the sump bilge as designed by Amel. The original poster might
want to
invest in a wet/dry vac to make cleaning this bilge an easy job.

Judy
S/V BeBe
Amel SM2 #387

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Roger Banks
<roger.banks@...>
wrote:

Hi Hugh

I considered the subject but abandoned it when I recalled that
grey
water is used mainly to flush toilets and water gardens, the
former
being done with sea water and the latter hardly applies. Use a
desalinator and avoid all that sludge in your bilges.

Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba











Hugh Levins <hlevins@...>
 

Greetings Roger,

I confirm that Judy's response answered my question, as the question was intended. But, thank you for your considered response to the original post.

I am heartened that Judy, Ian, and Serge are satisfied with the yard's drains arrangement.

Judy, are you not able to achieve an (almost) empty bilge with the manual bilge pump?

Hugh

----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Banks
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Sink/Shower grey water


Hi Ian

I would agree with you and Judy if the original post was about what
you are suggesting, but I read it differently and was awaiting his
clarification.

By the way, on my Mango, the sink and basins empty through the side,
above the water line, and only the shower goes into the sump by
gravity and is emptied by the bilge pump. I once gave consideration
to recycling and it was from that experience I responded; I realized
I am well off with the Mango arrangement, and could be more so with
yours as you get even more soap regularly neutralizing any bilge
greases. Not sure about food scraps from the sink though, sounds
disgusting and likely to clog the bilge pump; no wonder Judy reports
have to clean out the sump which i don't seem to need to do.

I really don't think it's in the spirit of a forum to browbeat other
respondents, which is likely to frighten them away (not me though, no
worries). Wish I'd had the same level of response when I requested
the section diameter of the forestay recently (twice).

Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba

On 21/09/2007, at 4:28 PM, Ian Shepherd wrote:

> Hi Roger,
>
> I am afraid that I am also totally confused by your posts. You seem
> to be
> confusing two separate areas of marine operation. I too have a
> Super Maramu
> and have had no problems at all with the great water bilge
> arrangement. It's
> a blessing to have the shower water go to the grey water bilge by
> gravity
> rather than run noisy pump out motors. My only complaint about the
> system is
> that if you forget to operate the manual override switch before
> docking, it
> can pump out a full bilge when you are not expecting it and in full
> view of
> the marina. It would have been better to have an 'off' switch as well.
>
> Having spent much time travelling into Australia, I can understand
> the over
> reaction of the Australian Authorities. From what you say, throwing
> scraps
> of food over the side to feed the fish may also be a health hazard!
> Not in
> most parts of the world Mate!
>
> Cheers
>
> Ian SM 414 Crusader
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Roger Banks
> Date: 09/20/07 22:29:18
> To: amelyachtowners@...
> Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Sink/Shower grey water
>
> Aggression I can do without, thanks, go jump down someone else's
> throat. Clearly you didn't read my post or spend a moment thinking
> about it.
>
> In Australia at least, recycling sink water containing any food is
> considered a health risk without treatment, so needs to be let go. So
> the question is whether to capture & recycle shower & basin water or
> not. Desalinators like to be run as much as possible (see earlier
> posts), thus giving fresh water for washing/showering. QED.
>
> Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba
>
> On 21/09/2007, at 3:51 AM, Judy wrote:
>
> > I am totally confused by your response regarding grey water. Perhaps
> > the term needs to be defined. The only marine definition of grey
> > water that I am familiar with is the water run-off from the showers
> > and sinks in the head and the galley sink. Toilet water is termed
> > black water. At least those are the commonly used definitions of
> grey
> > water and black water in the marine industry in the US. In parts of
> > the Great Lakes, for example, release of any grey water is
> banned. In
> > all US waters the release of black water is banned.
> >
> > Please explain how using a desalinator avoids the sludge in the
> bilge.
> >
> > As to the original question, we have experienced no problems with
> grey
> > water going to the sump bilge on our Super Maramu. We have not used
> > nylon stockings or other secondary filtration methods. If not
> cleaned
> > frequently, the sump bilge will stink to high heaven. It must be
> > cleaned periodically. We have encountered no problems in function
> with
> > the sump bilge as designed by Amel. The original poster might
> want to
> > invest in a wet/dry vac to make cleaning this bilge an easy job.
> >
> > Judy
> > S/V BeBe
> > Amel SM2 #387
> >
> > --- In amelyachtowners@..., Roger Banks
> <roger.banks@...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Hugh
> > >
> > > I considered the subject but abandoned it when I recalled that
> grey
> > > water is used mainly to flush toilets and water gardens, the
> former
> > > being done with sea water and the latter hardly applies. Use a
> > > desalinator and avoid all that sludge in your bilges.
> > >
> > > Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Judy Rouse
 

Hugh,

Yes, it is possible to achieve an almost empty bilge with the manual
bilge pump; but several times we have manually pumped the bilge too
dry, causing the pump to lose its prime. Not a big deal and easily
corrected by simply priming the pump, but not something Bill likes
dealing with. We do make certain the bilge is as empty as possible
and we add a cap full of bilge cleaner before setting out to sea.
This prevents any bilge smell from backing up through the aft shower
drain which can happen after a couple of days in rough seas if
attention is not paid to this in advance.

My only complaint with the arrangement is that, IMHO, one must be very
careful about not allowing any food to drain through the galley sink.
We have a stainless strainer with tiny diameter holes which we leave
in place at all times in the galley sink, just like we did in our land
home. Canned foods are never drained into the sink and food residue
on all dishes and pots are wiped with paper towels before washing.
Leftover milk in cereal bowls is flushed down the head; simple
cleaning routines such as this. No food is intentionally allowed down
the sink drain. Others we know living on the same model boat do not
take these precautions; they do drain canned food down the galley sink
with no ill effects to the bilge pump. I am probably over-doing this
but I don't want any food particles or residue to enter the bilge if
it can be avoided. The dead skin cells and soap residue that collect
in the bilge smell bad enough whenever we open up the bilge to clean
it; don't want to also add food into that mix. The white plastic
shower strainers in the heads are cleaned at least once per week to
remove any hair and soap build-up. Showers drain fine and there is no
smell in the heads.

Following these simple housecleaning tasks, the drain arrangement as
designed by Amel causes no problems whatsoever. And, as Ian pointed
out, we don't have to listen to (and maintain) additional pumps. We
like the Amel system and prefer it to the noisy shower pumps we had on
our previous boat.

FWIW, we completely empty and clean the bilge about once every six
months. A wet/dry van assists in this task. Not sure why we do this;
just like cleaning things I guess.

Judy
S/V BeBe
Amel SM2 #387

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "Hugh Levins" <hlevins@...> wrote:

Judy, are you not able to achieve an (almost) empty bilge with the
manual bilge pump?

Hugh