[Amel Yacht Owners] Amel Stainless Steel Anchor Shank Bend


dlm48@...
 

YEP WE managed that on Bill and Judy's SM200 just off the entrance to the
Moorings base in Road Town Tortola - they had it straightened no problem - i am
sure Judy or Bill will post and give you chapter and verse on the repair. It
would appear to my engineering brain that the shank need to be upsized
considerably as it cant handle the load that the flukes can generate with an SM200
leaping about in a boisterous anchorage

regards

David

In a message dated 14/02/2008 15:03:27 GMT Standard Time,
no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:

Hi Folks:

On a recent bit of sailing in Barbuda, West Indies, we were anchored
overnight in a bit of a
windy anchorage (about 25 knots, gusts to 30 knots). We were anchored in a
sand bottom as
far as we know and the boat would sail about somewhat as is customary. We
had a nylon
anchor snubber in place. Upon weighing anchor (the anchor broke out with the
normal
amount of resistance) we found the bent anchor shank depicted in the photo
that I have
posted in the photo's section.

Has anybody else had this problem? I have delivered the anchor to a shop in
Antigua that
says they can straighten the shank in their hydraulic press. I am concerned
about work
hardening of the metal from the bending forces. Anybody have thoughts about
the
advisability of straightening the shaft. The shank is welded in place so
replacement would be
a major undertaking. There is no deformation of the blade of the anchor.

Regards, Gary Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM2000 Hull # 335


dlm48@...
 

I think turning the shank into an I-beam will solve this 'issue' without any
need to add more material to the shank.

Stainless Steel is more malleable than cast steel so will bend - as you and
others have discovered - i dont think this is a 'strength' issue - it is
just that 'the flat' SS shank will bend before it manages to reset the anchor
flukes.

IF you look at a CQR for instance you will see a cast/forged I-beam.

Your modification to create the SS I-beam shank will stop it bending
'certainly not at the same loads' so the anchor will turn and reset in line with
the new direction of pull.

regards

David

In a message dated 17/02/2008 15:46:25 GMT Standard Time, mseidel@ec.rr.com
writes:

I read with interest the anchor shank bending. SM349 's shank bent 90
degrees this summer anchored in four foot plus seas starting a race for our
organization. It took a 30 ton press to straighten it, then we welded top and bottom
SS plates to make a new I-beam on top of the old and thicked the areas
between the top and bottom plates on both sides. I been sailing for 40 myears and
never seen that happen. Makes you wonder about the anchor strength?. Do I
need to trash the anchor despite the welding? Any thoughts?
Sundance sm 349 Murray Seidel.
----- Original Message -----
From: _dlm48@aol.com_ (mailto:dlm48@aol.com)
To: _amelyachtowners@amelyachtowname_
(mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel Stainless Steel Anchor Shank Bend

YEP WE managed that on Bill and Judy's SM200 just off the entrance to the
Moorings base in Road Town Tortola - they had it straightened no problem - i
am
sure Judy or Bill will post and give you chapter and verse on the repair. It
would appear to my engineering brain that the shank need to be upsized
considerably as it cant handle the load that the flukes can generate with an
SM200
leaping about in a boisterous anchorage

regards

David


Dr. Seidel <mseidel@...>
 

I read with interest the anchor shank bending. SM349 's shank bent 90 degrees this summer anchored in four foot plus seas starting a race for our organization. It took a 30 ton press to straighten it, then we welded top and bottom SS plates to make a new I-beam on top of the old and thicked the areas between the top and bottom plates on both sides. I been sailing for 40 myears and never seen that happen. Makes you wonder about the anchor strength?. Do I need to trash the anchor despite the welding? Any thoughts?
Sundance sm 349 Murray Seidel.

----- Original Message -----
From: dlm48@aol.com
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel Stainless Steel Anchor Shank Bend



YEP WE managed that on Bill and Judy's SM200 just off the entrance to the
Moorings base in Road Town Tortola - they had it straightened no problem - i am
sure Judy or Bill will post and give you chapter and verse on the repair. It
would appear to my engineering brain that the shank need to be upsized
considerably as it cant handle the load that the flukes can generate with an SM200
leaping about in a boisterous anchorage

regards

David

In a message dated 14/02/2008 15:03:27 GMT Standard Time,
no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:

Hi Folks:

On a recent bit of sailing in Barbuda, West Indies, we were anchored
overnight in a bit of a
windy anchorage (about 25 knots, gusts to 30 knots). We were anchored in a
sand bottom as
far as we know and the boat would sail about somewhat as is customary. We
had a nylon
anchor snubber in place. Upon weighing anchor (the anchor broke out with the
normal
amount of resistance) we found the bent anchor shank depicted in the photo
that I have
posted in the photo's section.

Has anybody else had this problem? I have delivered the anchor to a shop in
Antigua that
says they can straighten the shank in their hydraulic press. I am concerned
about work
hardening of the metal from the bending forces. Anybody have thoughts about
the
advisability of straightening the shaft. The shank is welded in place so
replacement would be
a major undertaking. There is no deformation of the blade of the anchor.

Regards, Gary Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM2000 Hull # 335


amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Murray:

Murray Seidel wrote: ".... then we welded top and bottom SS plates to make a new I-beam on
top of the old and thicked the areas between the top and bottom plates on both sides"

Murray, can you give more specifics about the thickness of the material welded on as
doublers to the shank on the top and bottom of the I beam cap plate and base plate? Also,
how far along the shank did you carry the doublers? A photo would be helpful if you are
near the boat.

" Do I need to trash the anchor despite the welding? Any thoughts? "

I am as worried about welding causing stress risers as I am about work hardening of the
metal by bending it back into shape. Seems we need a metallurgist to help us sort this
al out.

Thanks, Gary Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM2000 Hull # 335


Richard Piller <richard03801@...>
 

If you pre heat the SS that is going to welded and the
"I" beam and let it cool slow you will have issues.
Be VERY SURE that the welder uses 316 SS rods which is
the same metal that anchor should have been made of..
remember that SS it tough. not hard, yes it does work
harden however it can take lots of heat but not a lot
of rubbing/work hardening.
good luck
Richard on Challenge in St Maartin SM 209
--- amelliahona <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Murray:

Murray Seidel wrote: ".... then we welded top and
bottom SS plates to make a new I-beam on
top of the old and thicked the areas between the top
and bottom plates on both sides"

Murray, can you give more specifics about the
thickness of the material welded on as
doublers to the shank on the top and bottom of the I
beam cap plate and base plate? Also,
how far along the shank did you carry the doublers?
A photo would be helpful if you are
near the boat.

" Do I need to trash the anchor despite the welding?
Any thoughts? "

I am as worried about welding causing stress risers
as I am about work hardening of the
metal by bending it back into shape. Seems we need
a metallurgist to help us sort this
al out.

Thanks, Gary Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM2000
Hull # 335



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amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Richard Wrote : "If you pre heat the SS that is going to be welded and the
"I" beam and let it cool slow you will HAVE issues. "

HAVE is my emphasis added.

Richard: Hi, is this correct or did you mean to say you would NOT have
issues (annealing like on copper or is it like heat treating on SS??)

Please verify that HAVE is correct.

Thanks for your reply, Gary Silver


svbebe <yahoogroups@...>
 

Hello Gary and all,

Yes, we experienced a bent shaft on a stainless steel WASI anchor. We
had been at anchor for several hours in 15 - 20kts and 4 foot seas.
When we hauled the anchor, it came up as usual except for a 30 degree
bend in the shaft.

I contacted WASI and was told that bent shafts have been reported to
them but that the frequency was very slight (please see the WASI email
recommending the repair following).

I asked them about creating an I Beam by welding plates to the top and
bottom of the shaft. They responded that heating the stainless shaft
would weaken it. They suggested that I take the shaft to a auto body
shop which would have a cold press heavy enough to press the shaft to
straighten it. We did this in Tortola and all has been fine for
almost 2 years.

Regards,

Bill

<<<<<The following email is from WASI>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Following is my advise to straighten your bent anchor shaft:
I recommend that you take it to a body or machine shop in Road Town or
in St. Thomas which has a hydraulic box frame press. Usually these
devices are driven by hydraulic jacks of sizes 1 ton and larger.

Most important: By no means use -whoever is doing the straightening-
any heat in the process. The damage has been caused by cold forming
and it should be bend back by cold forming. Applying heat to Stainless
Steel will definitely change the molecular structure of the alloy,
with a number of negative effects and results.

Having said that, and looking at the considerable bend in the anchor
shaft, it will take a person with average to above average skills and
experience in cold bending to do the job - not to be undertaken by an
apprentice or amateur.

The critical part of the cold reshaping process is applying the force
at the correct points (fulcrum of arc bend) which requires a bit of
precision and of course the necessary experience...choose the shop
with that in mind. It should take 2 people not much more than 15
minutes and will have absolutely NO negative effects on the structural
integrity of the anchor....provided it is done in the proper manner.
We do not recommend adding any reinforcement anywhere along the shaft.
Any considerable side force will bend the shaft any which way and the
reinforcement will then just move that bending point to another spot,
possibly compounding the complexity of a bend.

If you have any further questions or need advise please contact me
directly, even by phone.

Fair winds

Ari Grimm

WASI
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<end of email from WASI>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


dlm48@...
 

I am sorry to disagree - creating an I beam will ensure that you CANT bend
the shank ever again. There are OBVIOUS issues in welding the SS shank but
provided this is done by a coded welder i can see no possible problems. For
sure NOT weakening the existing shank that is just uninformed information.
Having this work done out in the Caribbean or some other third world country yes
you MIGHT get problems but i truly see them as insignificant. Think about
it in a SS pressure vessel of which there are many the welds are the strongest
part of the job this is ONLY an anchor i cant be bothered working out
bending stresses ATM but i can assure you that creating an I beam will stop this
anchor shank being able to be bent with loads that the flukes can generate - if
you foul the anchor on some solid immovable object i would expect the anchor
to bend but maybe the chain or the swivel will be the weakest link (excuse
the pun) and explode before you bend the shank. Following the manufactures
advice is a good strategy especially if you dont have a technical or engineering
brain/mindset but here the shank is obviously under-engineered so it is
quite reasonable and i would suggest acceptable to modify it using good
engineering practices.

regards

David

In a message dated 21/02/2008 20:08:46 GMT Standard Time,
yahoogroups@svbebe.com writes:

Hello Gary and all,

Yes, we experienced a bent shaft on a stainless steel WASI anchor. We
had been at anchor for several hours in 15 - 20kts and 4 foot seas.
When we hauled the anchor, it came up as usual except for a 30 degree
bend in the shaft.

I contacted WASI and was told that bent shafts have been reported to
them but that the frequency was very slight (please see the WASI email
recommending the repair following).

I asked them about creating an I Beam by welding plates to the top and
bottom of the shaft. They responded that heating the stainless shaft
would weaken it. They suggested that I take the shaft to a auto body
shop which would have a cold press heavy enough to press the shaft to
straighten it. We did this in Tortola and all has been fine for
almost 2 years.

Regards,

Bill

<<<<<The following email is from WASI>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Following is my advise to straighten your bent anchor shaft:
I recommend that you take it to a body or machine shop in Road Town or
in St. Thomas which has a hydraulic box frame press. Usually these
devices are driven by hydraulic jacks of sizes 1 ton and larger.

Most important: By no means use -whoever is doing the straightening-
any heat in the process. The damage has been caused by cold forming
and it should be bend back by cold forming. Applying heat to Stainless
Steel will definitely change the molecular structure of the alloy,
with a number of negative effects and results.

Having said that, and looking at the considerable bend in the anchor
shaft, it will take a person with average to above average skills and
experience in cold bending to do the job - not to be undertaken by an
apprentice or amateur.

The critical part of the cold reshaping process is applying the force
at the correct points (fulcrum of arc bend) which requires a bit of
precision and of course the necessary experience..precision and of
with that in mind. It should take 2 people not much more than 15
minutes and will have absolutely NO negative effects on the structural
integrity of the anchor....provided it is done in the proper manner.
We do not recommend adding any reinforcement anywhere along the shaft.
Any considerable side force will bend the shaft any which way and the
reinforcement will then just move that bending point to another spot,
possibly compounding the complexity of a bend.

If you have any further questions or need advise please contact me
directly, even by phone.

Fair winds

Ari Grimm

WASI


amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hi David:

Regarding: " I am sorry to disagree - creating an I beam will ensure that you
CANT bend the shank ever again."

David, I am sorry to disagree with your statement, but take a look at the photo
of my anchor posted in the photo section. The shank on my anchor is a forged
(I presume) "I" beam construction and yet it bent about 30 degrees.

AB Marine in Jolly Harbor tells me that they have rendered it straight again by
cold working it in a press. I haven't seen it, and won't for another 4 weeks to
see what type of job they have done but I will post some "after" photos when
I get back aboard the boat.

Moral to the story, anything is possible

Regards, Gary


Dr. Seidel <mseidel@...>
 

Gary- in the next week or two I will photograph the anchor and measure the plates. I did not chrome the area afterwards, They wanted plus or minus 600 dollars to do this. The 350 dollars it cost was enoough for one day.
Tony and Heidy Gray on "world traveler" have come to Wilmiington N.C. to Bennett Bros yard up the Cape Fear river. Very accessible, very skilled yard, and if any of you call me, a great dinner at our house. 910-470-1225. Murray seidel

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Piller
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel Stainless Steel Anchor Shank Bend


If you pre heat the SS that is going to welded and the
"I" beam and let it cool slow you will have issues.
Be VERY SURE that the welder uses 316 SS rods which is
the same metal that anchor should have been made of..
remember that SS it tough. not hard, yes it does work
harden however it can take lots of heat but not a lot
of rubbing/work hardening.
good luck
Richard on Challenge in St Maartin SM 209
--- amelliahona <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> Hi Murray:
>
> Murray Seidel wrote: ".... then we welded top and
> bottom SS plates to make a new I-beam on
> top of the old and thicked the areas between the top
> and bottom plates on both sides"
>
> Murray, can you give more specifics about the
> thickness of the material welded on as
> doublers to the shank on the top and bottom of the I
> beam cap plate and base plate? Also,
> how far along the shank did you carry the doublers?
> A photo would be helpful if you are
> near the boat.
>
> " Do I need to trash the anchor despite the welding?
> Any thoughts? "
>
> I am as worried about welding causing stress risers
> as I am about work hardening of the
> metal by bending it back into shape. Seems we need
> a metallurgist to help us sort this
> al out.
>
> Thanks, Gary Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM2000
> Hull # 335
>
>

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