Thanks for the info. One question how much clearance did you plan between the shaft and bushings? Metal to metal ss to ss normally does not work well. If they touch they will Gaul as the bronze is used as a bearing surface. It may be that the bearing pack is stiff enough to hold the shaft from moving/touching. I guess time will tell.
Regards
Sent by Richard Piller

On Jul 1, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Ian Shepherd <sv_freespirit@...> wrote:

I read recently that owners modifications can be detrimental to the
original concept. Maybe so, but here are three modifications that have
definitely improved my boat.

Three and a half years ago I replaced the bronze main engine prop shaft
bush with one made of high grade stainless steel. I recently hauled for
the first time since fitting it and there was absolutely no wear
whatsoever on the bush. Just a very slight polishing of the surface
where the lip seals mate to the bush. There was no noticeable wear to
the seals either after 600 hours of motoring, but I changed them anyway.
This contrasts markedly to the normal wear experienced on the standard
bush. I believe that the maintenance interval is now much longer with
the stainless bush, and there is a worthwhile long term cost saving too.

I replaced the 70M of chain supplied by Amel with 90M. There was a
noticeable improvement in the boats motion particularly in short seas.
The boat pitches less, hardly ever slams any more and because of this
maintains a higher average speed. I also have 10M of chain and 100M of
rope for my second anchor stored in the forward locker together with my
two Fortress anchors, so in reality, I have the equivalent of 100M of
10mm chain in bow. The extra weight forward certainly seems to be for
the better.

I decided to try and improve the lubrication of the bow thruster, which
seems to have more sea water inside it than oil most of the time. The
arrangement of a single lip seal over a rough fibre shaft is hardly
conducive to keeping the sea water out. I removed the shaft and had it
machined down to accept a thin stainless sleeve for the lip seal to run
on. I then replaced the three open ball race bearings, which were all
rusty, with sealed bearings running in their own grease. Of course this
prevents you pouring the oil in via the top of the tube, so I decided to
not use oil to lubricate the bevel gears, but instead use water
repellent grease.

This was packed into the gearbox housing before the back plate was
refitted, leaving a small gap to allow for expansion, and grease was
also placed between the outside of the outer bearing and the lip seal.
This was done about four months ago, and the bow thruster has never
sounded sweeter. Gone is the awful sound of bearings running is a sea
water emulsion, and there does not seem to be any loss in power either.
Time will tell, and I shall remove the bow thruster this winter to see
if the modifications have had any adverse effects on the gears, but it
is my guess that the life of the seal, bearings and bevel gears will be
considerably increased.

As they say, cruising is fixing things on water. Anything that reduces
wear and subsequent failure must be for the better.

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Richard,

I am not sure if I mentioned that the stainless prop shaft bush has been
in use for over three years with no signs of any adverse effect.

Regards

Ian SM 414 Crusader

Hi Ian,



Very interested in you mods to Bowthruster gearbox. Despite changing all my bearings and seals the water still gets in and I think that the stainless steel sleeve on the prop drive shaft is the answer.



I would therefore be grateful if you could e-mail the exact o/d of your sleeve to suit the seal i/d if you have a note of this size.



Maybe then I can stop waking up everyone in the Marina every time I leave !



Regards,



Malcolm S/M 464 Bon Jovi.



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Ian Shepherd
Sent: 27 July 2010 16:39
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Modifications





Hi Richard,

I am not sure if I mentioned that the stainless prop shaft bush has been
in use for over three years with no signs of any adverse effect.

Regards

Ian SM 414 Crusader

On 02/07/2010 14:13, Richard03801 wrote:

Thanks for the info. One question how much clearance did you plan
between the shaft and bushings? Metal to metal ss to ss normally does
not work well. If they touch they will Gaul as the bronze is used as a
bearing surface. It may be that the bearing pack is stiff enough to
hold the shaft from moving/touching. I guess time will tell.
Regards
Sent by Richard Piller

On Jul 1, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Ian Shepherd <sv_freespirit@... <mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk>
<mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:

I read recently that owners modifications can be detrimental to the
original concept. Maybe so, but here are three modifications that have
definitely improved my boat.

Three and a half years ago I replaced the bronze main engine prop shaft
bush with one made of high grade stainless steel. I recently hauled for
the first time since fitting it and there was absolutely no wear
whatsoever on the bush. Just a very slight polishing of the surface
where the lip seals mate to the bush. There was no noticeable wear to
the seals either after 600 hours of motoring, but I changed them

anyway.

This contrasts markedly to the normal wear experienced on the standard
bush. I believe that the maintenance interval is now much longer with
the stainless bush, and there is a worthwhile long term cost saving too.

I replaced the 70M of chain supplied by Amel with 90M. There was a
noticeable improvement in the boats motion particularly in short seas.
The boat pitches less, hardly ever slams any more and because of this
maintains a higher average speed. I also have 10M of chain and 100M of
rope for my second anchor stored in the forward locker together with my
two Fortress anchors, so in reality, I have the equivalent of 100M of
10mm chain in bow. The extra weight forward certainly seems to be for
the better.

I decided to try and improve the lubrication of the bow thruster, which
seems to have more sea water inside it than oil most of the time. The
arrangement of a single lip seal over a rough fibre shaft is hardly
conducive to keeping the sea water out. I removed the shaft and had it
machined down to accept a thin stainless sleeve for the lip seal to run
on. I then replaced the three open ball race bearings, which were all
rusty, with sealed bearings running in their own grease. Of course this
prevents you pouring the oil in via the top of the tube, so I

decided to

not use oil to lubricate the bevel gears, but instead use water
repellent grease.

This was packed into the gearbox housing before the back plate was
refitted, leaving a small gap to allow for expansion, and grease was
also placed between the outside of the outer bearing and the lip seal.
This was done about four months ago, and the bow thruster has never
sounded sweeter. Gone is the awful sound of bearings running is a sea
water emulsion, and there does not seem to be any loss in power either.
Time will tell, and I shall remove the bow thruster this winter to see
if the modifications have had any adverse effects on the gears, but it
is my guess that the life of the seal, bearings and bevel gears will be
considerably increased.

As they say, cruising is fixing things on water. Anything that reduces
wear and subsequent failure must be for the better.

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

Ian thanks for the reply. Do you know what grade of stainless you used?

Regards
Richard Piller

On Jul 27, 2010, at 11:39, Ian Shepherd <sv_freespirit@...> wrote:

Hi Richard,

I am not sure if I mentioned that the stainless prop shaft bush has been
in use for over three years with no signs of any adverse effect.

Regards

Ian SM 414 Crusader

On 02/07/2010 14:13, Richard03801 wrote:

Thanks for the info. One question how much clearance did you plan
between the shaft and bushings? Metal to metal ss to ss normally does
not work well. If they touch they will Gaul as the bronze is used as a
bearing surface. It may be that the bearing pack is stiff enough to
hold the shaft from moving/touching. I guess time will tell.
Regards
Sent by Richard Piller

On Jul 1, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Ian Shepherd <sv_freespirit@...
<mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:

I read recently that owners modifications can be detrimental to the
original concept. Maybe so, but here are three modifications that have
definitely improved my boat.

Three and a half years ago I replaced the bronze main engine prop shaft
bush with one made of high grade stainless steel. I recently hauled for
the first time since fitting it and there was absolutely no wear
whatsoever on the bush. Just a very slight polishing of the surface
where the lip seals mate to the bush. There was no noticeable wear to
the seals either after 600 hours of motoring, but I changed them

anyway.

This contrasts markedly to the normal wear experienced on the standard
bush. I believe that the maintenance interval is now much longer with
the stainless bush, and there is a worthwhile long term cost saving too.

I replaced the 70M of chain supplied by Amel with 90M. There was a
noticeable improvement in the boats motion particularly in short seas.
The boat pitches less, hardly ever slams any more and because of this
maintains a higher average speed. I also have 10M of chain and 100M of
rope for my second anchor stored in the forward locker together with my
two Fortress anchors, so in reality, I have the equivalent of 100M of
10mm chain in bow. The extra weight forward certainly seems to be for
the better.

I decided to try and improve the lubrication of the bow thruster, which
seems to have more sea water inside it than oil most of the time. The
arrangement of a single lip seal over a rough fibre shaft is hardly
conducive to keeping the sea water out. I removed the shaft and had it
machined down to accept a thin stainless sleeve for the lip seal to run
on. I then replaced the three open ball race bearings, which were all
rusty, with sealed bearings running in their own grease. Of course this
prevents you pouring the oil in via the top of the tube, so I

decided to

not use oil to lubricate the bevel gears, but instead use water
repellent grease.

This was packed into the gearbox housing before the back plate was
refitted, leaving a small gap to allow for expansion, and grease was
also placed between the outside of the outer bearing and the lip seal.
This was done about four months ago, and the bow thruster has never
sounded sweeter. Gone is the awful sound of bearings running is a sea
water emulsion, and there does not seem to be any loss in power either.
Time will tell, and I shall remove the bow thruster this winter to see
if the modifications have had any adverse effects on the gears, but it
is my guess that the life of the seal, bearings and bevel gears will be
considerably increased.

As they say, cruising is fixing things on water. Anything that reduces
wear and subsequent failure must be for the better.

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Malcolm,

I am afraid that I have no note of the dimensions, but obviously it
should be as thin as practicable for the machinist else you run the risk
of weakening the shaft. At a guess I would say that my sleeve was about
15-20 thousands of an inch. Incidentally I was talking to a marine
engineer in Leros who is familiar with Amels. He said that all of the
boats he has worked on did not have a stainless steel spring on the bow
thruster lip seal. Another step for improvement perhaps?

Thanks for the tip on the motor ball race. I will take a look and spray
some anti corrosive oil around the area.

Best Wishes

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

Hi Richard,

off hand no, but it might be on the paperwork which is back in Cyprus. I
won't be back there till the end of September. At least 316 I would suspect.

Regards

Ian

On 28/07/2010 11:09, Richard03801 wrote:

Ian thanks for the reply. Do you know what grade of stainless you used?

Regards
Richard Piller

On Jul 27, 2010, at 11:39, Ian Shepherd <sv_freespirit@...
<mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:

Hi Richard,

I am not sure if I mentioned that the stainless prop shaft bush has

been

in use for over three years with no signs of any adverse effect.

Regards

Ian SM 414 Crusader

On 02/07/2010 14:13, Richard03801 wrote:

Thanks for the info. One question how much clearance did you plan
between the shaft and bushings? Metal to metal ss to ss normally does
not work well. If they touch they will Gaul as the bronze is used

as a

bearing surface. It may be that the bearing pack is stiff enough to
hold the shaft from moving/touching. I guess time will tell.
Regards
Sent by Richard Piller

On Jul 1, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Ian Shepherd

<sv_freespirit@... <mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk>

<mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:

I read recently that owners modifications can be detrimental to the
original concept. Maybe so, but here are three modifications

that have

definitely improved my boat.

Three and a half years ago I replaced the bronze main engine

prop shaft

bush with one made of high grade stainless steel. I recently

hauled for

the first time since fitting it and there was absolutely no wear
whatsoever on the bush. Just a very slight polishing of the surface
where the lip seals mate to the bush. There was no noticeable

wear to

the seals either after 600 hours of motoring, but I changed them

anyway.

This contrasts markedly to the normal wear experienced on the

standard

bush. I believe that the maintenance interval is now much longer

with

the stainless bush, and there is a worthwhile long term cost

saving too.

I replaced the 70M of chain supplied by Amel with 90M. There was a
noticeable improvement in the boats motion particularly in short

seas.

The boat pitches less, hardly ever slams any more and because of

this

maintains a higher average speed. I also have 10M of chain and

100M of

rope for my second anchor stored in the forward locker together

with my

two Fortress anchors, so in reality, I have the equivalent of

100M of

10mm chain in bow. The extra weight forward certainly seems to

be for

the better.

I decided to try and improve the lubrication of the bow

thruster, which

seems to have more sea water inside it than oil most of the

time. The

arrangement of a single lip seal over a rough fibre shaft is hardly
conducive to keeping the sea water out. I removed the shaft and

had it

machined down to accept a thin stainless sleeve for the lip seal

to run

on. I then replaced the three open ball race bearings, which

were all

rusty, with sealed bearings running in their own grease. Of

course this

prevents you pouring the oil in via the top of the tube, so I

decided to

not use oil to lubricate the bevel gears, but instead use water
repellent grease.

This was packed into the gearbox housing before the back plate was
refitted, leaving a small gap to allow for expansion, and grease was
also placed between the outside of the outer bearing and the lip

seal.

This was done about four months ago, and the bow thruster has never
sounded sweeter. Gone is the awful sound of bearings running is

a sea

water emulsion, and there does not seem to be any loss in power

either.

Time will tell, and I shall remove the bow thruster this winter

to see

if the modifications have had any adverse effects on the gears,

but it

is my guess that the life of the seal, bearings and bevel gears

will be

considerably increased.

As they say, cruising is fixing things on water. Anything that

reduces

wear and subsequent failure must be for the better.

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have been following this topic with some interest. A much simpler way to provide a stainless steel bearing surface is to ask your bearing supplier for a 'speedisleeve'. This is a very thin sleeve designed to slip onto any standard size shaft to provide a new surface for the oil seal to run on. Because of the thinness of the sleeve standard size oil seals are used. The sleeve is simply held in place with a thin smear of locktight. Since fitting these to my main drive we have completed 980hrs using the engine plus a fair few additional hours with the prop free wheeling driving the aqua drive alternator ( our boat is a Santorin) without any water ingress to the oil. The beauty is that you can simply slip them over your existing bronze bush without any modification. BTY because there are three seals on the main drive you will need two speedisleeves. I haven't done it myself but I would assume a similar solution would work for the bow thruster shaft. Your seal supplier should be able to replace that standard seal springs with stainless ones, usually at no extra charge. Hope this is of interest.

Maurice & Heather
SY Baracca
Santorin #41

Hi
I note you use the aquadrive alternator. On my Satorin I am unable to
measure any imput. What should the alternator produce. I amcrossing to
the Carribean and only have this and engine for charging

Thanks

Ivan Campbell

Ocean Hobo


On 18 Aug 2010, at 15:41, "sy_baracca" <sy_baracca@...> wrote:

I have been following this topic with some interest. A much simpler
way to provide a stainless steel bearing surface is to ask your
bearing supplier for a 'speedisleeve'. This is a very thin sleeve
designed to slip onto any standard size shaft to provide a new
surface for the oil seal to run on. Because of the thinness of the
sleeve standard size oil seals are used. The sleeve is simply held
in place with a thin smear of locktight. Since fitting these to my
main drive we have completed 980hrs using the engine plus a fair few
additional hours with the prop free wheeling driving the aqua drive
alternator ( our boat is a Santorin) without any water ingress to
the oil. The beauty is that you can simply slip them over your
existing bronze bush without any modification. BTY because there are
three seals on the main drive you will need two speedisleeves. I
haven't done it myself but I would assume a similar solution would
work for the bow thruster shaft. Your seal supplier should be able
to replace that standard seal springs with stainless ones, usually
at no extra charge. Hope this is of interest.

Maurice & Heather
SY Baracca
Santorin #41
--- In amelyachtowners@..., Ian Shepherd
<sv_freespirit@...> wrote:

Hi Malcolm,

I am afraid that I have no note of the dimensions, but obviously it
should be as thin as practicable for the machinist else you run

the risk

of weakening the shaft. At a guess I would say that my sleeve was

about

15-20 thousands of an inch. Incidentally I was talking to a marine
engineer in Leros who is familiar with Amels. He said that all of

the

boats he has worked on did not have a stainless steel spring on

the bow

thruster lip seal. Another step for improvement perhaps?

Thanks for the tip on the motor ball race. I will take a look and

spray

some anti corrosive oil around the area.

Best Wishes

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

On 28/07/2010 08:58, Malcolm Phillips wrote:

Hi Ian,



Very interested in you mods to Bowthruster gearbox. Despite

changing

all my bearings and seals the water still gets in and I think

that the

stainless steel sleeve on the prop drive shaft is the answer.



I would therefore be grateful if you could e-mail the exact o/d of
your sleeve to suit the seal i/d if you have a note of this size.



Maybe then I can stop waking up everyone in the Marina every

time I

leave !



Regards,



Malcolm S/M 464 Bon Jovi.



From: amelyachtowners@...
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Ian

Shepherd

Sent: 27 July 2010 16:39
To: amelyachtowners@...
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Amel] Modifications





Hi Richard,

I am not sure if I mentioned that the stainless prop shaft bush

has been

in use for over three years with no signs of any adverse effect.

Regards

Ian SM 414 Crusader

On 02/07/2010 14:13, Richard03801 wrote:

Thanks for the info. One question how much clearance did you

plan

between the shaft and bushings? Metal to metal ss to ss

normally does

not work well. If they touch they will Gaul as the bronze is

used as a

bearing surface. It may be that the bearing pack is stiff

enough to

hold the shaft from moving/touching. I guess time will tell.
Regards
Sent by Richard Piller

On Jul 1, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Ian Shepherd <sv_freespirit@...

<mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk> <mailto:sv_freespirit

%40yahoo.co.uk>

<mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:

I read recently that owners modifications can be detrimental

to the

original concept. Maybe so, but here are three modifications

that have

definitely improved my boat.

Three and a half years ago I replaced the bronze main engine

prop

shaft

bush with one made of high grade stainless steel. I recently

hauled for

the first time since fitting it and there was absolutely no

wear

whatsoever on the bush. Just a very slight polishing of the

surface

where the lip seals mate to the bush. There was no

noticeable wear to

the seals either after 600 hours of motoring, but I changed

them

anyway.

This contrasts markedly to the normal wear experienced on

the standard

bush. I believe that the maintenance interval is now much

longer with

the stainless bush, and there is a worthwhile long term cost

saving too.

I replaced the 70M of chain supplied by Amel with 90M. There

was a

noticeable improvement in the boats motion particularly in

short seas.

The boat pitches less, hardly ever slams any more and

because of this

maintains a higher average speed. I also have 10M of chain

and 100M of

rope for my second anchor stored in the forward locker

together

with my

two Fortress anchors, so in reality, I have the equivalent

of 100M of

10mm chain in bow. The extra weight forward certainly seems

to be for

the better.

I decided to try and improve the lubrication of the bow

thruster,

which

seems to have more sea water inside it than oil most of the

time. The

arrangement of a single lip seal over a rough fibre shaft is

hardly

conducive to keeping the sea water out. I removed the shaft

and had it

machined down to accept a thin stainless sleeve for the lip

seal

to run

on. I then replaced the three open ball race bearings, which

were all

rusty, with sealed bearings running in their own grease. Of

course

this

prevents you pouring the oil in via the top of the tube, so I

decided to

not use oil to lubricate the bevel gears, but instead use

water

repellent grease.

This was packed into the gearbox housing before the back

plate was

refitted, leaving a small gap to allow for expansion, and

grease was

also placed between the outside of the outer bearing and the

lip seal.

This was done about four months ago, and the bow thruster

has never

sounded sweeter. Gone is the awful sound of bearings running

is a sea

water emulsion, and there does not seem to be any loss in

power

either.

Time will tell, and I shall remove the bow thruster this

winter to see

if the modifications have had any adverse effects on the

gears, but it

is my guess that the life of the seal, bearings and bevel

gears

will be

considerably increased.

As they say, cruising is fixing things on water. Anything

that reduces

wear and subsequent failure must be for the better.

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When we had the aquadrive on our Maramu at 5.5 kts boat speed through the water we got 15 Amps on the meter. Be sure the belt is not sliping and that there are good contacts at both the alternator and the through the system. When we bench tested the alternator we found that it would go to 25 amps at 1800 RPM I don't think you'll get that but you should get 10-15 without issue.
Good luck enjoy the trip.
Richard on SM 209

Thanks Richard

Very helpfull


Ivan Campbell
Ocean Hobo
Santorin 96



On 21 Aug 2010, at 02:33, "richard03801" <richard03801@...> wrote:

When we had the aquadrive on our Maramu at 5.5 kts boat speed
through the water we got 15 Amps on the meter. Be sure the belt is
not sliping and that there are good contacts at both the alternator
and the through the system. When we bench tested the alternator we
found that it would go to 25 amps at 1800 RPM I don't think you'll
get that but you should get 10-15 without issue.
Good luck enjoy the trip.
Richard on SM 209

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Ivan Campbell <i-
campbell@...> wrote:

Hi
I note you use the aquadrive alternator. On my Satorin I am unable

to

measure any imput. What should the alternator produce. I

amcrossing to

the Carribean and only have this and engine for charging

Thanks

Ivan Campbell

Ocean Hobo


On 18 Aug 2010, at 15:41, "sy_baracca" <sy_baracca@...> wrote:

I have been following this topic with some interest. A much

simpler

way to provide a stainless steel bearing surface is to ask your
bearing supplier for a 'speedisleeve'. This is a very thin sleeve
designed to slip onto any standard size shaft to provide a new
surface for the oil seal to run on. Because of the thinness of the
sleeve standard size oil seals are used. The sleeve is simply held
in place with a thin smear of locktight. Since fitting these to my
main drive we have completed 980hrs using the engine plus a fair

few

additional hours with the prop free wheeling driving the aqua

drive

alternator ( our boat is a Santorin) without any water ingress to
the oil. The beauty is that you can simply slip them over your
existing bronze bush without any modification. BTY because there

are

three seals on the main drive you will need two speedisleeves. I
haven't done it myself but I would assume a similar solution would
work for the bow thruster shaft. Your seal supplier should be able
to replace that standard seal springs with stainless ones, usually
at no extra charge. Hope this is of interest.

Maurice & Heather
SY Baracca
Santorin #41
--- In amelyachtowners@..., Ian Shepherd
<sv_freespirit@> wrote:

Hi Malcolm,

I am afraid that I have no note of the dimensions, but

obviously it

should be as thin as practicable for the machinist else you run

the risk

of weakening the shaft. At a guess I would say that my sleeve

was

about

15-20 thousands of an inch. Incidentally I was talking to a

marine

engineer in Leros who is familiar with Amels. He said that all

of

the

boats he has worked on did not have a stainless steel spring on

the bow

thruster lip seal. Another step for improvement perhaps?

Thanks for the tip on the motor ball race. I will take a look

and

spray

some anti corrosive oil around the area.

Best Wishes

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

On 28/07/2010 08:58, Malcolm Phillips wrote:

Hi Ian,



Very interested in you mods to Bowthruster gearbox. Despite

changing

all my bearings and seals the water still gets in and I think

that the

stainless steel sleeve on the prop drive shaft is the answer.



I would therefore be grateful if you could e-mail the exact

o/d of

your sleeve to suit the seal i/d if you have a note of this

size.

Maybe then I can stop waking up everyone in the Marina every

time I

leave !



Regards,



Malcolm S/M 464 Bon Jovi.



From: amelyachtowners@...
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Ian

Shepherd

Sent: 27 July 2010 16:39
To: amelyachtowners@...
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Amel] Modifications





Hi Richard,

I am not sure if I mentioned that the stainless prop shaft

bush

has been

in use for over three years with no signs of any adverse

effect.

Regards

Ian SM 414 Crusader

On 02/07/2010 14:13, Richard03801 wrote:

Thanks for the info. One question how much clearance did you

plan

between the shaft and bushings? Metal to metal ss to ss

normally does

not work well. If they touch they will Gaul as the bronze is

used as a

bearing surface. It may be that the bearing pack is stiff

enough to

hold the shaft from moving/touching. I guess time will tell.
Regards
Sent by Richard Piller

On Jul 1, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Ian Shepherd <sv_freespirit@

<mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk> <mailto:sv_freespirit

%40yahoo.co.uk>

<mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:

I read recently that owners modifications can be

detrimental

to the

original concept. Maybe so, but here are three

modifications

that have

definitely improved my boat.

Three and a half years ago I replaced the bronze main

engine

prop

shaft

bush with one made of high grade stainless steel. I

recently

hauled for

the first time since fitting it and there was absolutely

no

wear

whatsoever on the bush. Just a very slight polishing of

the

surface

where the lip seals mate to the bush. There was no

noticeable wear to

the seals either after 600 hours of motoring, but I

changed

them

anyway.

This contrasts markedly to the normal wear experienced on

the standard

bush. I believe that the maintenance interval is now much

longer with

the stainless bush, and there is a worthwhile long term

cost

saving too.

I replaced the 70M of chain supplied by Amel with 90M.

There

was a

noticeable improvement in the boats motion particularly in

short seas.

The boat pitches less, hardly ever slams any more and

because of this

maintains a higher average speed. I also have 10M of chain

and 100M of

rope for my second anchor stored in the forward locker

together

with my

two Fortress anchors, so in reality, I have the equivalent

of 100M of

10mm chain in bow. The extra weight forward certainly

seems

to be for

the better.

I decided to try and improve the lubrication of the bow

thruster,

which

seems to have more sea water inside it than oil most of

the

time. The

arrangement of a single lip seal over a rough fibre

shaft is

hardly

conducive to keeping the sea water out. I removed the

shaft

and had it

machined down to accept a thin stainless sleeve for the

lip

seal

to run

on. I then replaced the three open ball race bearings,

which

were all

rusty, with sealed bearings running in their own grease.

Of

course

this

prevents you pouring the oil in via the top of the tube,

so I

decided to

not use oil to lubricate the bevel gears, but instead use

water

repellent grease.

This was packed into the gearbox housing before the back

plate was

refitted, leaving a small gap to allow for expansion, and

grease was

also placed between the outside of the outer bearing and

the

lip seal.

This was done about four months ago, and the bow thruster

has never

sounded sweeter. Gone is the awful sound of bearings

running

is a sea

water emulsion, and there does not seem to be any loss in

power

either.

Time will tell, and I shall remove the bow thruster this

winter to see

if the modifications have had any adverse effects on the

gears, but it

is my guess that the life of the seal, bearings and bevel

gears

will be

considerably increased.

As they say, cruising is fixing things on water. Anything

that reduces

wear and subsequent failure must be for the better.

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Richard,

We also will be crossing to the Caribbean this year, probably early December. When running our aquagen we normally get around 10-12amp/hr charge showing provided boat speed is above about 5.5 to 6 knots. Normally charging stops below about 3.5 knots. We normally sail in light winds with the prop freewheeling. Once the boat speed gets above 6 knots we engage the aquagen. It costs us about half knot of boat speed. Stopping the prop completely will cost up to 1 knot. Obviously once you reach the point of having to reef there is no penalty running the aquagen.

Maurice & Heather
SY Baracca
Santorin #41

I usually use mine sailing at speeds in excess of 5,5 knots and at 7 knots it will produce enough for fridge, autopilot, all instruments and still charge with 5-10 amps.
It is a great device but must be manually activated on the 12V panel via the key. It took me some time to figure this out as the green charging light may have a delay of half a minute before turning on.

/Lars, Santorin Salvagny

Fra: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] På vegne af Ivan Campbell
Sendt: 20. august 2010 09:07
Til: amelyachtowners@...
Emne: Re: [Amel] Modifications


Hi
I note you use the aquadrive alternator. On my Satorin I am unable to
measure any imput. What should the alternator produce. I amcrossing to
the Carribean and only have this and engine for charging

Thanks

Ivan Campbell

Ocean Hobo

On 18 Aug 2010, at 15:41, "sy_baracca" <sy_baracca@... <mailto:sy_baracca%40yahoo.co.nz> > wrote:

I have been following this topic with some interest. A much simpler
way to provide a stainless steel bearing surface is to ask your
bearing supplier for a 'speedisleeve'. This is a very thin sleeve
designed to slip onto any standard size shaft to provide a new
surface for the oil seal to run on. Because of the thinness of the
sleeve standard size oil seals are used. The sleeve is simply held
in place with a thin smear of locktight. Since fitting these to my
main drive we have completed 980hrs using the engine plus a fair few
additional hours with the prop free wheeling driving the aqua drive
alternator ( our boat is a Santorin) without any water ingress to
the oil. The beauty is that you can simply slip them over your
existing bronze bush without any modification. BTY because there are
three seals on the main drive you will need two speedisleeves. I
haven't done it myself but I would assume a similar solution would
work for the bow thruster shaft. Your seal supplier should be able
to replace that standard seal springs with stainless ones, usually
at no extra charge. Hope this is of interest.

Maurice & Heather
SY Baracca
Santorin #41
--- In <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> amelyachtowners@..., Ian Shepherd
< <mailto:sv_freespirit@...> sv_freespirit@...> wrote:

Hi Malcolm,

I am afraid that I have no note of the dimensions, but obviously it
should be as thin as practicable for the machinist else you run

the risk

of weakening the shaft. At a guess I would say that my sleeve was

about

15-20 thousands of an inch. Incidentally I was talking to a marine
engineer in Leros who is familiar with Amels. He said that all of

the

boats he has worked on did not have a stainless steel spring on

the bow

thruster lip seal. Another step for improvement perhaps?

Thanks for the tip on the motor ball race. I will take a look and

spray

some anti corrosive oil around the area.

Best Wishes

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

On 28/07/2010 08:58, Malcolm Phillips wrote:

Hi Ian,



Very interested in you mods to Bowthruster gearbox. Despite

changing

all my bearings and seals the water still gets in and I think

that the

stainless steel sleeve on the prop drive shaft is the answer.



I would therefore be grateful if you could e-mail the exact o/d of
your sleeve to suit the seal i/d if you have a note of this size.



Maybe then I can stop waking up everyone in the Marina every

time I

leave !



Regards,



Malcolm S/M 464 Bon Jovi.



From: <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> amelyachtowners@...
< <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto: <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> amelyachtowners@...
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Ian

Shepherd

Sent: 27 July 2010 16:39
To: <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> amelyachtowners@...
< <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Amel] Modifications





Hi Richard,

I am not sure if I mentioned that the stainless prop shaft bush

has been

in use for over three years with no signs of any adverse effect.

Regards

Ian SM 414 Crusader

On 02/07/2010 14:13, Richard03801 wrote:

Thanks for the info. One question how much clearance did you

plan

between the shaft and bushings? Metal to metal ss to ss

normally does

not work well. If they touch they will Gaul as the bronze is

used as a

bearing surface. It may be that the bearing pack is stiff

enough to

hold the shaft from moving/touching. I guess time will tell.
Regards
Sent by Richard Piller

On Jul 1, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Ian Shepherd < <mailto:sv_freespirit@...%0b> sv_freespirit@...

< <mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk> mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk> < <mailto:sv_freespirit%20%0b> mailto:sv_freespirit

%40yahoo.co.uk>

< <mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk> mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:

I read recently that owners modifications can be detrimental

to the

original concept. Maybe so, but here are three modifications

that have

definitely improved my boat.

Three and a half years ago I replaced the bronze main engine

prop

shaft

bush with one made of high grade stainless steel. I recently

hauled for

the first time since fitting it and there was absolutely no

wear

whatsoever on the bush. Just a very slight polishing of the

surface

where the lip seals mate to the bush. There was no

noticeable wear to

the seals either after 600 hours of motoring, but I changed

them

anyway.

This contrasts markedly to the normal wear experienced on

the standard

bush. I believe that the maintenance interval is now much

longer with

the stainless bush, and there is a worthwhile long term cost

saving too.

I replaced the 70M of chain supplied by Amel with 90M. There

was a

noticeable improvement in the boats motion particularly in

short seas.

The boat pitches less, hardly ever slams any more and

because of this

maintains a higher average speed. I also have 10M of chain

and 100M of

rope for my second anchor stored in the forward locker

together

with my

two Fortress anchors, so in reality, I have the equivalent

of 100M of

10mm chain in bow. The extra weight forward certainly seems

to be for

the better.

I decided to try and improve the lubrication of the bow

thruster,

which

seems to have more sea water inside it than oil most of the

time. The

arrangement of a single lip seal over a rough fibre shaft is

hardly

conducive to keeping the sea water out. I removed the shaft

and had it

machined down to accept a thin stainless sleeve for the lip

seal

to run

on. I then replaced the three open ball race bearings, which

were all

rusty, with sealed bearings running in their own grease. Of

course

this

prevents you pouring the oil in via the top of the tube, so I

decided to

not use oil to lubricate the bevel gears, but instead use

water

repellent grease.

This was packed into the gearbox housing before the back

plate was

refitted, leaving a small gap to allow for expansion, and

grease was

also placed between the outside of the outer bearing and the

lip seal.

This was done about four months ago, and the bow thruster

has never

sounded sweeter. Gone is the awful sound of bearings running

is a sea

water emulsion, and there does not seem to be any loss in

power

either.

Time will tell, and I shall remove the bow thruster this

winter to see

if the modifications have had any adverse effects on the

gears, but it

is my guess that the life of the seal, bearings and bevel

gears

will be

considerably increased.

As they say, cruising is fixing things on water. Anything

that reduces

wear and subsequent failure must be for the better.

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Maurice and Heather,



Thanks for the info on speedy sleeve. This sounds like the answer. I will ask my seal supplier- Brammer to obtain the sleeves and the stainless spring.



Malcolm.



S/M 464 Bon Jovi



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Lars H. Knudsen
Sent: 22 August 2010 12:09
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: SV: [Amel] Modifications





I usually use mine sailing at speeds in excess of 5,5 knots and at 7 knots it will produce enough for fridge, autopilot, all instruments and still charge with 5-10 amps.
It is a great device but must be manually activated on the 12V panel via the key. It took me some time to figure this out as the green charging light may have a delay of half a minute before turning on.

/Lars, Santorin Salvagny

Fra: amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> ] På vegne af Ivan Campbell
Sendt: 20. august 2010 09:07
Til: amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
Emne: Re: [Amel] Modifications


Hi
I note you use the aquadrive alternator. On my Satorin I am unable to
measure any imput. What should the alternator produce. I amcrossing to
the Carribean and only have this and engine for charging

Thanks

Ivan Campbell

Ocean Hobo

On 18 Aug 2010, at 15:41, "sy_baracca" <sy_baracca@... <mailto:sy_baracca%40yahoo.co.nz> <mailto:sy_baracca%40yahoo.co.nz> > wrote:

I have been following this topic with some interest. A much simpler
way to provide a stainless steel bearing surface is to ask your
bearing supplier for a 'speedisleeve'. This is a very thin sleeve
designed to slip onto any standard size shaft to provide a new
surface for the oil seal to run on. Because of the thinness of the
sleeve standard size oil seals are used. The sleeve is simply held
in place with a thin smear of locktight. Since fitting these to my
main drive we have completed 980hrs using the engine plus a fair few
additional hours with the prop free wheeling driving the aqua drive
alternator ( our boat is a Santorin) without any water ingress to
the oil. The beauty is that you can simply slip them over your
existing bronze bush without any modification. BTY because there are
three seals on the main drive you will need two speedisleeves. I
haven't done it myself but I would assume a similar solution would
work for the bow thruster shaft. Your seal supplier should be able
to replace that standard seal springs with stainless ones, usually
at no extra charge. Hope this is of interest.

Maurice & Heather
SY Baracca
Santorin #41
--- In <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> , Ian Shepherd
< <mailto:sv_freespirit@...> sv_freespirit@...> wrote:

Hi Malcolm,

I am afraid that I have no note of the dimensions, but obviously it
should be as thin as practicable for the machinist else you run

the risk

of weakening the shaft. At a guess I would say that my sleeve was

about

15-20 thousands of an inch. Incidentally I was talking to a marine
engineer in Leros who is familiar with Amels. He said that all of

the

boats he has worked on did not have a stainless steel spring on

the bow

thruster lip seal. Another step for improvement perhaps?

Thanks for the tip on the motor ball race. I will take a look and

spray

some anti corrosive oil around the area.

Best Wishes

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

On 28/07/2010 08:58, Malcolm Phillips wrote:

Hi Ian,



Very interested in you mods to Bowthruster gearbox. Despite

changing

all my bearings and seals the water still gets in and I think

that the

stainless steel sleeve on the prop drive shaft is the answer.



I would therefore be grateful if you could e-mail the exact o/d of
your sleeve to suit the seal i/d if you have a note of this size.



Maybe then I can stop waking up everyone in the Marina every

time I

leave !



Regards,



Malcolm S/M 464 Bon Jovi.



From: <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
< <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto: <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Ian

Shepherd

Sent: 27 July 2010 16:39
To: <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
< <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Amel] Modifications





Hi Richard,

I am not sure if I mentioned that the stainless prop shaft bush

has been

in use for over three years with no signs of any adverse effect.

Regards

Ian SM 414 Crusader

On 02/07/2010 14:13, Richard03801 wrote:

Thanks for the info. One question how much clearance did you

plan

between the shaft and bushings? Metal to metal ss to ss

normally does

not work well. If they touch they will Gaul as the bronze is

used as a

bearing surface. It may be that the bearing pack is stiff

enough to

hold the shaft from moving/touching. I guess time will tell.
Regards
Sent by Richard Piller

On Jul 1, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Ian Shepherd < <mailto:sv_freespirit@...%0b> sv_freespirit@...

< <mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk> mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk> < <mailto:sv_freespirit%20%0b> mailto:sv_freespirit

%40yahoo.co.uk>

< <mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk> mailto:sv_freespirit%40yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:

I read recently that owners modifications can be detrimental

to the

original concept. Maybe so, but here are three modifications

that have

definitely improved my boat.

Three and a half years ago I replaced the bronze main engine

prop

shaft

bush with one made of high grade stainless steel. I recently

hauled for

the first time since fitting it and there was absolutely no

wear

whatsoever on the bush. Just a very slight polishing of the

surface

where the lip seals mate to the bush. There was no

noticeable wear to

the seals either after 600 hours of motoring, but I changed

them

anyway.

This contrasts markedly to the normal wear experienced on

the standard

bush. I believe that the maintenance interval is now much

longer with

the stainless bush, and there is a worthwhile long term cost

saving too.

I replaced the 70M of chain supplied by Amel with 90M. There

was a

noticeable improvement in the boats motion particularly in

short seas.

The boat pitches less, hardly ever slams any more and

because of this

maintains a higher average speed. I also have 10M of chain

and 100M of

rope for my second anchor stored in the forward locker

together

with my

two Fortress anchors, so in reality, I have the equivalent

of 100M of

10mm chain in bow. The extra weight forward certainly seems

to be for

the better.

I decided to try and improve the lubrication of the bow

thruster,

which

seems to have more sea water inside it than oil most of the

time. The

arrangement of a single lip seal over a rough fibre shaft is

hardly

conducive to keeping the sea water out. I removed the shaft

and had it

machined down to accept a thin stainless sleeve for the lip

seal

to run

on. I then replaced the three open ball race bearings, which

were all

rusty, with sealed bearings running in their own grease. Of

course

this

prevents you pouring the oil in via the top of the tube, so I

decided to

not use oil to lubricate the bevel gears, but instead use

water

repellent grease.

This was packed into the gearbox housing before the back

plate was

refitted, leaving a small gap to allow for expansion, and

grease was

also placed between the outside of the outer bearing and the

lip seal.

This was done about four months ago, and the bow thruster

has never

sounded sweeter. Gone is the awful sound of bearings running

is a sea

water emulsion, and there does not seem to be any loss in

power

either.

Time will tell, and I shall remove the bow thruster this

winter to see

if the modifications have had any adverse effects on the

gears, but it

is my guess that the life of the seal, bearings and bevel

gears

will be

considerably increased.

As they say, cruising is fixing things on water. Anything

that reduces

wear and subsequent failure must be for the better.

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader