Ian,

As I understand what you wrote about the bow thruster you added a sleeve in
the shaft that is connected to the prp and replaced the bearings with sealed
bearings and then packed the gearbox with grease.

Why can you not add oil from the top of the bow thruster?

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite





_____

From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of sv_crusader
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 12:56 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel] Re: Modifications





Hello Richard,

the stainless bush was an exact copy of the bronze one, except that it was
made with three grub screws instead of two to allow better centering.

Assembled with grease there are no signs of any Galling after over three
years of use. In fact both the shaft and the bush look as new.

I am off for 10 weeks sailing this morning, so will be unable to reply
further until I find a wireless network to log on to, but I will be glad to
discuss further when I get back.

Regards

Ian SM414 Crusader (Headed for Mersin Eastern Turkey)

--- In amelyachtowners@...
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
wrote:

Thanks for the info. One question how much clearance did you plan between

the shaft and bushings? Metal to metal ss to ss normally does not work well.
If they touch they will Gaul as the bronze is used as a bearing surface. It
may be that the bearing pack is stiff enough to hold the shaft from
moving/touching. I guess time will tell.

Regards
Sent by Richard Piller

On Jul 1, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Ian Shepherd <sv_freespirit@...> wrote:

I read recently that owners modifications can be detrimental to the
original concept. Maybe so, but here are three modifications that have
definitely improved my boat.

Three and a half years ago I replaced the bronze main engine prop shaft
bush with one made of high grade stainless steel. I recently hauled for
the first time since fitting it and there was absolutely no wear
whatsoever on the bush. Just a very slight polishing of the surface
where the lip seals mate to the bush. There was no noticeable wear to
the seals either after 600 hours of motoring, but I changed them anyway.

This contrasts markedly to the normal wear experienced on the standard
bush. I believe that the maintenance interval is now much longer with
the stainless bush, and there is a worthwhile long term cost saving too.

I replaced the 70M of chain supplied by Amel with 90M. There was a
noticeable improvement in the boats motion particularly in short seas.
The boat pitches less, hardly ever slams any more and because of this
maintains a higher average speed. I also have 10M of chain and 100M of
rope for my second anchor stored in the forward locker together with my
two Fortress anchors, so in reality, I have the equivalent of 100M of
10mm chain in bow. The extra weight forward certainly seems to be for
the better.

I decided to try and improve the lubrication of the bow thruster, which
seems to have more sea water inside it than oil most of the time. The
arrangement of a single lip seal over a rough fibre shaft is hardly
conducive to keeping the sea water out. I removed the shaft and had it
machined down to accept a thin stainless sleeve for the lip seal to run
on. I then replaced the three open ball race bearings, which were all
rusty, with sealed bearings running in their own grease. Of course this
prevents you pouring the oil in via the top of the tube, so I decided to

not use oil to lubricate the bevel gears, but instead use water
repellent grease.

This was packed into the gearbox housing before the back plate was
refitted, leaving a small gap to allow for expansion, and grease was
also placed between the outside of the outer bearing and the lip seal.
This was done about four months ago, and the bow thruster has never
sounded sweeter. Gone is the awful sound of bearings running is a sea
water emulsion, and there does not seem to be any loss in power either.
Time will tell, and I shall remove the bow thruster this winter to see
if the modifications have had any adverse effects on the gears, but it
is my guess that the life of the seal, bearings and bevel gears will be
considerably increased.

As they say, cruising is fixing things on water. Anything that reduces
wear and subsequent failure must be for the better.

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

Eric/Ian,



You may be interested to note that the bearing spec on my
Redline 464 gives 2 sealed ball races and one open, ie the top
one which then allows you to fill with oil. I am very
impressed with Ian,s modifications which I may do when I next
overhaul the bow thrusters gearbox. Unfortunately on the first
overhaul I concluded that the bevel gears were worn after
running in emulsion for a year SO PACKING WITH WATERPROOF
GREASE MAY BE THE ONLY WAY OF GETTING A SWEETER SOUND BACK !



Malcolm



S/M 464 Bon Jovi



From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of kimberlite
Sent: 03 July 2010 06:13
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel] Re: Modifications





Ian,

As I understand what you wrote about the bow thruster you added a sleeve
in
the shaft that is connected to the prp and replaced the bearings with
sealed
bearings and then packed the gearbox with grease.

Why can you not add oil from the top of the bow thruster?

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

_____

From: amelyachtowners@...
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of sv_crusader
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 12:56 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Amel] Re: Modifications

Hello Richard,

the stainless bush was an exact copy of the bronze one, except that it
was
made with three grub screws instead of two to allow better centering.

Assembled with grease there are no signs of any Galling after over three
years of use. In fact both the shaft and the bush look as new.

I am off for 10 weeks sailing this morning, so will be unable to reply
further until I find a wireless network to log on to, but I will be glad
to
discuss further when I get back.

Regards

Ian SM414 Crusader (Headed for Mersin Eastern Turkey)

--- In amelyachtowners@...
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard03801
<richard03801@...>
wrote:

Thanks for the info. One question how much clearance did you plan

between
the shaft and bushings? Metal to metal ss to ss normally does not work
well.
If they touch they will Gaul as the bronze is used as a bearing surface.
It
may be that the bearing pack is stiff enough to hold the shaft from
moving/touching. I guess time will tell.

Regards
Sent by Richard Piller

On Jul 1, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Ian Shepherd <sv_freespirit@...> wrote:

I read recently that owners modifications can be detrimental to the
original concept. Maybe so, but here are three modifications that

have

definitely improved my boat.

Three and a half years ago I replaced the bronze main engine prop

shaft

bush with one made of high grade stainless steel. I recently hauled

for

the first time since fitting it and there was absolutely no wear
whatsoever on the bush. Just a very slight polishing of the surface
where the lip seals mate to the bush. There was no noticeable wear

to

the seals either after 600 hours of motoring, but I changed them

anyway.

This contrasts markedly to the normal wear experienced on the

standard

bush. I believe that the maintenance interval is now much longer

with

the stainless bush, and there is a worthwhile long term cost saving

too.

I replaced the 70M of chain supplied by Amel with 90M. There was a
noticeable improvement in the boats motion particularly in short

seas.

The boat pitches less, hardly ever slams any more and because of

this

maintains a higher average speed. I also have 10M of chain and 100M

of

rope for my second anchor stored in the forward locker together with

my

two Fortress anchors, so in reality, I have the equivalent of 100M

of

10mm chain in bow. The extra weight forward certainly seems to be

for

the better.

I decided to try and improve the lubrication of the bow thruster,

which

seems to have more sea water inside it than oil most of the time.

The

arrangement of a single lip seal over a rough fibre shaft is hardly
conducive to keeping the sea water out. I removed the shaft and had

it

machined down to accept a thin stainless sleeve for the lip seal to

run

on. I then replaced the three open ball race bearings, which were

all

rusty, with sealed bearings running in their own grease. Of course

this

prevents you pouring the oil in via the top of the tube, so I

decided to

not use oil to lubricate the bevel gears, but instead use water
repellent grease.

This was packed into the gearbox housing before the back plate was
refitted, leaving a small gap to allow for expansion, and grease was

also placed between the outside of the outer bearing and the lip

seal.

This was done about four months ago, and the bow thruster has never
sounded sweeter. Gone is the awful sound of bearings running is a

sea

water emulsion, and there does not seem to be any loss in power

either.

Time will tell, and I shall remove the bow thruster this winter to

see

if the modifications have had any adverse effects on the gears, but

it

is my guess that the life of the seal, bearings and bevel gears will

be

considerably increased.

As they say, cruising is fixing things on water. Anything that

reduces

wear and subsequent failure must be for the better.

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY -
www.maildefender.net



Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net

Hi Eric,

correct. As the bearing on the vertical drive shaft is sealed, oil
cannot pass it to the gearbox. Hence the need to pack the gearbox with
grease. It's still working fine and sounds very sweet!

Regards

Ian 'Crusader'

Hi Malcom,

you should be OK. My bevel gears were 7 years old before I made the
modification, and I suspect they were running in emulsion for much of
their life. Certainly before the recent haul out, there was no oil left
at all in the housing when I took the thruster apart. I am just amazed
that this unit was designed with a single lip seal and such a poor seal
to shaft contact surface. I believe that Amel use a Schleiper made unit
on the 54. At least the demo I had a look at when they first came out
was fitted with one.

By the way, when I had the stainless sleeve made for the shaft, I had
the outer end tapered. This makes it easier for the seal to slide onto
the shaft without popping the spring off it's inner face. I bet there
are quite a few Amels out there with the spring dislodged. It's so easy
to do.

Good luck

Ian SM 414 Crusader

Hello again Ian,



Hadn't read your response.



Thanks very much for your info on the bevel gears and I will
put a taper on the s/s sleeve as you suggest.



I'm now back in the UK from Turkey and will overhaul the
Bowthruster gearbox this winter.



I also recently replaced the 2 large foam washers on the
bowthruster tube which has kept the interior of the boat much
cleaner, the main benefit was of course to avoid any sea
water reaching the ball race at the bottom of the bowthruster
motor as I believe some S/M s have had this ballrace
disintegrate and burn out the motor - a very expensive problem !



I'm sure that the Schleiper unit will be a better option than
the Leroy Somers Motor.



Thanks again,



Malcolm S/M 464 Bon Jovi



From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Ian Shepherd
Sent: 27 July 2010 16:36
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Modifications





Hi Malcom,

you should be OK. My bevel gears were 7 years old before I made the
modification, and I suspect they were running in emulsion for much of
their life. Certainly before the recent haul out, there was no oil left
at all in the housing when I took the thruster apart. I am just amazed
that this unit was designed with a single lip seal and such a poor seal
to shaft contact surface. I believe that Amel use a Schleiper made unit
on the 54. At least the demo I had a look at when they first came out
was fitted with one.

By the way, when I had the stainless sleeve made for the shaft, I had
the outer end tapered. This makes it easier for the seal to slide onto
the shaft without popping the spring off it's inner face. I bet there
are quite a few Amels out there with the spring dislodged. It's so easy
to do.

Good luck

Ian SM 414 Crusader

On 05/07/2010 07:47, Malcolm Phillips wrote:

Eric/Ian,

You may be interested to note that the bearing spec on my
Redline 464 gives 2 sealed ball races and one open, ie the top
one which then allows you to fill with oil. I am very
impressed with Ian,s modifications which I may do when I next
overhaul the bow thrusters gearbox. Unfortunately on the first
overhaul I concluded that the bevel gears were worn after
running in emulsion for a year SO PACKING WITH WATERPROOF
GREASE MAY BE THE ONLY WAY OF GETTING A SWEETER SOUND BACK !

Malcolm

S/M 464 Bon Jovi

From: amelyachtowners@...

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of kimberlite
Sent: 03 July 2010 06:13
To: amelyachtowners@...

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Amel] Re: Modifications

Ian,

As I understand what you wrote about the bow thruster you added a

sleeve

in
the shaft that is connected to the prp and replaced the bearings with
sealed
bearings and then packed the gearbox with grease.

Why can you not add oil from the top of the bow thruster?

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

_____

From: amelyachtowners@...

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of sv_crusader
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 12:56 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Amel] Re: Modifications

Hello Richard,

the stainless bush was an exact copy of the bronze one, except that it
was
made with three grub screws instead of two to allow better centering.

Assembled with grease there are no signs of any Galling after over

three

years of use. In fact both the shaft and the bush look as new.

I am off for 10 weeks sailing this morning, so will be unable to reply
further until I find a wireless network to log on to, but I will be

glad

to
discuss further when I get back.

Regards

Ian SM414 Crusader (Headed for Mersin Eastern Turkey)

--- In amelyachtowners@...

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard03801
<richard03801@...>
wrote:

Thanks for the info. One question how much clearance did you plan

between
the shaft and bushings? Metal to metal ss to ss normally does not work
well.
If they touch they will Gaul as the bronze is used as a bearing

surface.

It
may be that the bearing pack is stiff enough to hold the shaft from
moving/touching. I guess time will tell.

Regards
Sent by Richard Piller

On Jul 1, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Ian Shepherd <sv_freespirit@...> wrote:

I read recently that owners modifications can be detrimental to

the

original concept. Maybe so, but here are three modifications that

have

definitely improved my boat.

Three and a half years ago I replaced the bronze main engine prop

shaft

bush with one made of high grade stainless steel. I recently

hauled

for

the first time since fitting it and there was absolutely no wear
whatsoever on the bush. Just a very slight polishing of the

surface

where the lip seals mate to the bush. There was no noticeable wear

to

the seals either after 600 hours of motoring, but I changed them

anyway.

This contrasts markedly to the normal wear experienced on the

standard

bush. I believe that the maintenance interval is now much longer

with

the stainless bush, and there is a worthwhile long term cost

saving

too.

I replaced the 70M of chain supplied by Amel with 90M. There was a
noticeable improvement in the boats motion particularly in short

seas.

The boat pitches less, hardly ever slams any more and because of

this

maintains a higher average speed. I also have 10M of chain and

100M

of

rope for my second anchor stored in the forward locker together

with

my

two Fortress anchors, so in reality, I have the equivalent of 100M

of

10mm chain in bow. The extra weight forward certainly seems to be

for

the better.

I decided to try and improve the lubrication of the bow thruster,

which

seems to have more sea water inside it than oil most of the time.

The

arrangement of a single lip seal over a rough fibre shaft is

hardly

conducive to keeping the sea water out. I removed the shaft and

had

it

machined down to accept a thin stainless sleeve for the lip seal

to

run

on. I then replaced the three open ball race bearings, which were

all

rusty, with sealed bearings running in their own grease. Of course

this

prevents you pouring the oil in via the top of the tube, so I

decided to

not use oil to lubricate the bevel gears, but instead use water
repellent grease.

This was packed into the gearbox housing before the back plate was
refitted, leaving a small gap to allow for expansion, and grease

was

also placed between the outside of the outer bearing and the lip

seal.

This was done about four months ago, and the bow thruster has

never

sounded sweeter. Gone is the awful sound of bearings running is a

sea

water emulsion, and there does not seem to be any loss in power

either.

Time will tell, and I shall remove the bow thruster this winter to

see

if the modifications have had any adverse effects on the gears,

but

it

is my guess that the life of the seal, bearings and bevel gears

will

be

considerably increased.

As they say, cruising is fixing things on water. Anything that

reduces

wear and subsequent failure must be for the better.

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY -
www.maildefender.net

Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY -
www.maildefender.net

Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net