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[Amel] SM2K Yanmar RPM
Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
Do you have clean fuel and Air filters / cleaners is the prop clean and does it reach full pitch. Are you getting over heating when when you run it hard is the Saltwater heat exchange clear. And are the fans running w/fresh air. Last is the turbo carbined up. All these will cause rpm loss. It is not an easy item to solve. We never run wide open a diesel likes a load it does not need to go full bore all the time.
Regards
Richard Piller
On Mar 29, 2011, at 19:10, "Mark" <markghayden@...> wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Regards
Richard Piller
On Mar 29, 2011, at 19:10, "Mark" <markghayden@...> wrote:
We have a SM2K with an Autoprop. We have been getting somewhat dark exhaust from our engine so we've had a Yanmar serviceman look at it. The Yanmar 4JH3-TE engine is rated at 3800 RPM. When testing the boat on calm water (clean hull, clean prop...), we could got 3100 max RPM, similar to when I purchased the boat. Referring to the maintenance log, the original owner got 3250 max RPM when he tested it around the time of purchase from Amel.
The Yanmar guy I am working with tells me this RPM is an indication the engine is overloaded and is a likely cause for the exhaust. He went further and says that Yanmar would not warranty the engine in this application, given the load, gearing ratio, propeller combination prevents it from reaching the spec'd RPM. The implication being it is a flawed design, which I find hard to believe.
I contacted Amel several months ago about this and didn't get a response. Has anyone been told this before? Is there an explanation for the design?
Thanks in advance,
Mark
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mark Hayden
Thanks for the info. I'm current with all the filters, etc. The fact that my RPM's are within the same ballpark as when the previous owner acquired the boat from Amel is consistent with that.
Are my RPM's in line with what I should be expecting? Or is there something about the application that makes the RPM's I'm getting OK. If my RPM's are as expected, I'd think there would be other owners who had been told the same thing as me.
BTW, how can you tell if the autoprop reaches full pitch?
Thanks in advance, Mark
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Are my RPM's in line with what I should be expecting? Or is there something about the application that makes the RPM's I'm getting OK. If my RPM's are as expected, I'd think there would be other owners who had been told the same thing as me.
BTW, how can you tell if the autoprop reaches full pitch?
Thanks in advance, Mark
--- In amelyachtowners@..., Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:
Do you have clean fuel and Air filters / cleaners is the prop clean and does it reach full pitch. Are you getting over heating when when you run it hard is the Saltwater heat exchange clear. And are the fans running w/fresh air. Last is the turbo carbined up. All these will cause rpm loss. It is not an easy item to solve. We never run wide open a diesel likes a load it does not need to go full bore all the time.
Regards
Richard Piller
On Mar 29, 2011, at 19:10, "Mark" <markghayden@...> wrote:We have a SM2K with an Autoprop. We have been getting somewhat dark exhaust from our engine so we've had a Yanmar serviceman look at it. The Yanmar 4JH3-TE engine is rated at 3800 RPM. When testing the boat on calm water (clean hull, clean prop...), we could got 3100 max RPM, similar to when I purchased the boat. Referring to the maintenance log, the original owner got 3250 max RPM when he tested it around the time of purchase from Amel.
The Yanmar guy I am working with tells me this RPM is an indication the engine is overloaded and is a likely cause for the exhaust. He went further and says that Yanmar would not warranty the engine in this application, given the load, gearing ratio, propeller combination prevents it from reaching the spec'd RPM. The implication being it is a flawed design, which I find hard to believe.
I contacted Amel several months ago about this and didn't get a response. Has anyone been told this before? Is there an explanation for the design?
Thanks in advance,
Mark
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Mark, just to add to the ideas. I have spent many years around diesel engines in a variety of applications. A regular maintenance need is injector servicing and a dark smoky exhaust is one indicator that it is time for that service. Fuel is driven through the injectors into the combustion chamber at very high pressure though a small nozzle. Over time this nozzle wears and increases in diameter leading to over fueling and a smoky exhaust, particularly under load.
I would expect a performance decrease as well as the smoke. Injector servincing is not a big deal. You need a competent tradesman with the right tools to remove them and a specialist service centre to sevice them..
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl (NZ)
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I would expect a performance decrease as well as the smoke. Injector servincing is not a big deal. You need a competent tradesman with the right tools to remove them and a specialist service centre to sevice them..
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl (NZ)
--- On Thu, 31/3/11, Mark <markghayden@...> wrote:
From: Mark <markghayden@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel] SM2K Yanmar RPM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, 31, March, 2011, 8:17 PM
Thanks for the info. I'm current with all the filters, etc. The fact that my RPM's are within the same ballpark as when the previous owner acquired the boat from Amel is consistent with that.
Are my RPM's in line with what I should be expecting? Or is there something about the application that makes the RPM's I'm getting OK. If my RPM's are as expected, I'd think there would be other owners who had been told the same thing as me.
BTW, how can you tell if the autoprop reaches full pitch?
Thanks in advance, Mark
--- In amelyachtowners@..., Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Mark <markghayden@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel] SM2K Yanmar RPM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, 31, March, 2011, 8:17 PM
Thanks for the info. I'm current with all the filters, etc. The fact that my RPM's are within the same ballpark as when the previous owner acquired the boat from Amel is consistent with that.
Are my RPM's in line with what I should be expecting? Or is there something about the application that makes the RPM's I'm getting OK. If my RPM's are as expected, I'd think there would be other owners who had been told the same thing as me.
BTW, how can you tell if the autoprop reaches full pitch?
Thanks in advance, Mark
--- In amelyachtowners@..., Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:
Do you have clean fuel and Air filters / cleaners is the prop clean and does it reach full pitch. Are you getting over heating when when you run it hard is the Saltwater heat exchange clear. And are the fans running w/fresh air. Last is the turbo carbined up. All these will cause rpm loss. It is not an easy item to solve. We never run wide open a diesel likes a load it does not need to go full bore all the time.
Regards
Richard Piller
On Mar 29, 2011, at 19:10, "Mark" <markghayden@...> wrote:We have a SM2K with an Autoprop. We have been getting somewhat dark exhaust from our engine so we've had a Yanmar serviceman look at it. The Yanmar 4JH3-TE engine is rated at 3800 RPM. When testing the boat on calm water (clean hull, clean prop...), we could got 3100 max RPM, similar to when I purchased the boat. Referring to the maintenance log, the original owner got 3250 max RPM when he tested it around the time of purchase from Amel.
The Yanmar guy I am working with tells me this RPM is an indication the engine is overloaded and is a likely cause for the exhaust. He went further and says that Yanmar would not warranty the engine in this application, given the load, gearing ratio, propeller combination prevents it from reaching the spec'd RPM. The implication being it is a flawed design, which I find hard to believe.
I contacted Amel several months ago about this and didn't get a response. Has anyone been told this before? Is there an explanation for the design?
Thanks in advance,
Mark
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mark Hayden
Hi Danny,
Thanks for the info. We had the injectors replaced several months ago but that didn't appear to resolve the exhaust problem. Joel Potter confirmed we should be getting the Yanmar-rated max 3800 RPM, which the boat has never been capable of since we have had it. We plan to continue working with our tech to hunt the RPM problem down, hoping it is connected with the exhaust.
thanks, Mark
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thanks for the info. We had the injectors replaced several months ago but that didn't appear to resolve the exhaust problem. Joel Potter confirmed we should be getting the Yanmar-rated max 3800 RPM, which the boat has never been capable of since we have had it. We plan to continue working with our tech to hunt the RPM problem down, hoping it is connected with the exhaust.
thanks, Mark
--- In amelyachtowners@..., Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:
Hi Mark, just to add to the ideas. I have spent many years around diesel engines in a variety of applications. A regular maintenance need is injector servicing and a dark smoky exhaust is one indicator that it is time for that service. Fuel is driven through the injectors into the combustion chamber at very high pressure though a small nozzle. Over time this nozzle wears and increases in diameter leading to over fueling and a smoky exhaust, particularly under load.
I would expect a performance decrease as well as the smoke. Injector servincing is not a big deal. You need a competent tradesman with the right tools to remove them and a specialist service centre to sevice them..
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl (NZ)Â Â
--- On Thu, 31/3/11, Mark <markghayden@...> wrote:
From: Mark <markghayden@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel] SM2K Yanmar RPM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, 31, March, 2011, 8:17 PM
Â
Thanks for the info. I'm current with all the filters, etc. The fact that my RPM's are within the same ballpark as when the previous owner acquired the boat from Amel is consistent with that.
Are my RPM's in line with what I should be expecting? Or is there something about the application that makes the RPM's I'm getting OK. If my RPM's are as expected, I'd think there would be other owners who had been told the same thing as me.
BTW, how can you tell if the autoprop reaches full pitch?
Thanks in advance, Mark
--- In amelyachtowners@..., Richard03801 <richard03801@> wrote:
Do you have clean fuel and Air filters / cleaners is the prop clean and does it reach full pitch. Are you getting over heating when when you run it hard is the Saltwater heat exchange clear. And are the fans running w/fresh air. Last is the turbo carbined up. All these will cause rpm loss. It is not an easy item to solve. We never run wide open a diesel likes a load it does not need to go full bore all the time.
Regards
Richard Piller
On Mar 29, 2011, at 19:10, "Mark" <markghayden@> wrote:We have a SM2K with an Autoprop. We have been getting somewhat dark exhaust from our engine so we've had a Yanmar serviceman look at it. The Yanmar 4JH3-TE engine is rated at 3800 RPM. When testing the boat on calm water (clean hull, clean prop...), we could got 3100 max RPM, similar to when I purchased the boat. Referring to the maintenance log, the original owner got 3250 max RPM when he tested it around the time of purchase from Amel.
The Yanmar guy I am working with tells me this RPM is an indication the engine is overloaded and is a likely cause for the exhaust. He went further and says that Yanmar would not warranty the engine in this application, given the load, gearing ratio, propeller combination prevents it from reaching the spec'd RPM. The implication being it is a flawed design, which I find hard to believe.
I contacted Amel several months ago about this and didn't get a response. Has anyone been told this before? Is there an explanation for the design?
Thanks in advance,
Mark
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mark,
I spent thousands of $ on my Volvo looking for the cause of low rpm and black smoke (not dramatic smoke, but always more on the side of the boat behind the exhaust than most boats out there). It never lost a drop of oil or coolant and purred along nicely at up to 22-2400rpm. My boat had to have the Turbo replaced once after 4-5 years of service, then again when I bought it after another 5 years of service. I was told that it had failed because of carbon buildup, which I understand can be due to not running the engine hard enough (ie unable to run at adequate rpm?) or running in overloaded condition (ie overpropped). New Turbo, injectors & injector pump removed and sent to Volvo for testing, cleaned fuel tank & hoses, new timing belt, checked cylinder pressures, checked exhaust components and air intake....everything any of several mechanics suggested could be the cause. Finally had to look at the prop. (It was the prop supplied with the boat
by Amel, so I had resisted looking at that as the cause). Got the serial number off the prop and called AutoProp folks who said it was the prop recommended for the SM with 100HP Yanmar, not my 78HP Volvo. Still skeptical, I had the spare fixed prop (also too big diameter and too heavily pitched according to the prop shop in Annapolis) resized & repitched to the recommendations of the prop shop). The Volvo ran right up to the recommended 3000rpm and smoke cleared up. I lived with that for a season and then bought a new MaxProp and pitched it according to the same recommendations. It also worked great on the Volvo giving good "mileage" and 3000 rpm (so I could "burn off" carbon in the Turbo and exhaust system), and the soot on the side of the boat cleared up. For the last year I've run it at ~2K rpm when cruising, but run it up to 28-2900rpm for 10-12 min every few hours. The turbo still looks like new.
Amel has said all along that they put the same AutoProp on the SM whether it has 78 HP Volvo or 100HP Yanmar (which has 33% more HP) and stand by that recommendation for the SM.
After a year of running the Volvo with the new props, without problems, it started belching smoke and losing oil and coolant, and lost rpm severely. Probably a cracked head or block, but I decided to repower with a Yanmar rather than spend any more money on the Volvo.
Moral of this story: Do your own prop investigation. First make sure it is clean and the blades rotate freely on the hub (assuming it's and AutoProp). Get the numbers off the prop and find out how it's pitched, then compare that with what is recommended by a good prop shop and what's recommended by Autoprop. I wouldn't be surprised, based on my experience alone, that you are overpropped as well. Your problem sounds like exactly what I was dealing with, and I spent a ton of money chasing an elusive cause because I believed that Amel had propped the boat appropriately. It was only after several mechanics had checked it out and said they didn't think there was anything wrong with the engine that I made myself look at the prop.
Good luck and let us know what you find.
Kent
SM243
KRISTY
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I spent thousands of $ on my Volvo looking for the cause of low rpm and black smoke (not dramatic smoke, but always more on the side of the boat behind the exhaust than most boats out there). It never lost a drop of oil or coolant and purred along nicely at up to 22-2400rpm. My boat had to have the Turbo replaced once after 4-5 years of service, then again when I bought it after another 5 years of service. I was told that it had failed because of carbon buildup, which I understand can be due to not running the engine hard enough (ie unable to run at adequate rpm?) or running in overloaded condition (ie overpropped). New Turbo, injectors & injector pump removed and sent to Volvo for testing, cleaned fuel tank & hoses, new timing belt, checked cylinder pressures, checked exhaust components and air intake....everything any of several mechanics suggested could be the cause. Finally had to look at the prop. (It was the prop supplied with the boat
by Amel, so I had resisted looking at that as the cause). Got the serial number off the prop and called AutoProp folks who said it was the prop recommended for the SM with 100HP Yanmar, not my 78HP Volvo. Still skeptical, I had the spare fixed prop (also too big diameter and too heavily pitched according to the prop shop in Annapolis) resized & repitched to the recommendations of the prop shop). The Volvo ran right up to the recommended 3000rpm and smoke cleared up. I lived with that for a season and then bought a new MaxProp and pitched it according to the same recommendations. It also worked great on the Volvo giving good "mileage" and 3000 rpm (so I could "burn off" carbon in the Turbo and exhaust system), and the soot on the side of the boat cleared up. For the last year I've run it at ~2K rpm when cruising, but run it up to 28-2900rpm for 10-12 min every few hours. The turbo still looks like new.
Amel has said all along that they put the same AutoProp on the SM whether it has 78 HP Volvo or 100HP Yanmar (which has 33% more HP) and stand by that recommendation for the SM.
After a year of running the Volvo with the new props, without problems, it started belching smoke and losing oil and coolant, and lost rpm severely. Probably a cracked head or block, but I decided to repower with a Yanmar rather than spend any more money on the Volvo.
Moral of this story: Do your own prop investigation. First make sure it is clean and the blades rotate freely on the hub (assuming it's and AutoProp). Get the numbers off the prop and find out how it's pitched, then compare that with what is recommended by a good prop shop and what's recommended by Autoprop. I wouldn't be surprised, based on my experience alone, that you are overpropped as well. Your problem sounds like exactly what I was dealing with, and I spent a ton of money chasing an elusive cause because I believed that Amel had propped the boat appropriately. It was only after several mechanics had checked it out and said they didn't think there was anything wrong with the engine that I made myself look at the prop.
Good luck and let us know what you find.
Kent
SM243
KRISTY
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kimberlite <kimberlite@...>
Mark,
What yanmar do you have the 100 or the 70 hp engine?
Do you have the autoprop?
Fair Winds
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite
_____
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Mark
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 5:08 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] SM2K Yanmar RPM
Hi Danny,
Thanks for the info. We had the injectors replaced several months ago but
that didn't appear to resolve the exhaust problem. Joel Potter confirmed we
should be getting the Yanmar-rated max 3800 RPM, which the boat has never
been capable of since we have had it. We plan to continue working with our
tech to hunt the RPM problem down, hoping it is connected with the exhaust.
thanks, Mark
--- In amelyachtowners@...
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> , Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
<simms@...> wrote:
servicing and a dark smoky exhaust is one indicator that it is time for that
service. Fuel is driven through the injectors into the combustion chamber at
very high pressure though a small nozzle. Over time this nozzle wears and
increases in diameter leading to over fueling and a smoky exhaust,
particularly under load.
tools to remove them and a specialist service centre to sevice them..
the boat from Amel is consistent with that.
RPM's are as expected, I'd think there would be other owners who had been
told the same thing as me.
wrote:
hard is the Saltwater heat exchange clear. And are the fans running w/fresh
air. Last is the turbo carbined up. All these will cause rpm loss. It is not
an easy item to solve. We never run wide open a diesel likes a load it does
not need to go full bore all the time.
Yanmar 4JH3-TE engine is rated at 3800 RPM. When testing the boat on calm
water (clean hull, clean prop...), we could got 3100 max RPM, similar to
when I purchased the boat. Referring to the maintenance log, the original
owner got 3250 max RPM when he tested it around the time of purchase from
Amel.
further and says that Yanmar would not warranty the engine in this
application, given the load, gearing ratio, propeller combination prevents
it from reaching the spec'd RPM. The implication being it is a flawed
design, which I find hard to believe.
design?
What yanmar do you have the 100 or the 70 hp engine?
Do you have the autoprop?
Fair Winds
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite
_____
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Mark
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 5:08 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] SM2K Yanmar RPM
Hi Danny,
Thanks for the info. We had the injectors replaced several months ago but
that didn't appear to resolve the exhaust problem. Joel Potter confirmed we
should be getting the Yanmar-rated max 3800 RPM, which the boat has never
been capable of since we have had it. We plan to continue working with our
tech to hunt the RPM problem down, hoping it is connected with the exhaust.
thanks, Mark
--- In amelyachtowners@...
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> , Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
<simms@...> wrote:
engines in a variety of applications. A regular maintenance need is injector
Hi Mark, just to add to the ideas. I have spent many years around diesel
servicing and a dark smoky exhaust is one indicator that it is time for that
service. Fuel is driven through the injectors into the combustion chamber at
very high pressure though a small nozzle. Over time this nozzle wears and
increases in diameter leading to over fueling and a smoky exhaust,
particularly under load.
I would expect a performance decrease as well as the smoke. Injectorservincing is not a big deal. You need a competent tradesman with the right
tools to remove them and a specialist service centre to sevice them..
Regards<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl (NZ)Â Â
--- On Thu, 31/3/11, Mark <markghayden@...> wrote:
From: Mark <markghayden@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel] SM2K Yanmar RPM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, 31, March, 2011, 8:17 PMmy RPM's are within the same ballpark as when the previous owner acquired
Â
Thanks for the info. I'm current with all the filters, etc. The fact that
the boat from Amel is consistent with that.
something about the application that makes the RPM's I'm getting OK. If my
Are my RPM's in line with what I should be expecting? Or is there
RPM's are as expected, I'd think there would be other owners who had been
told the same thing as me.
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard03801 <richard03801@>
BTW, how can you tell if the autoprop reaches full pitch?
Thanks in advance, Mark
--- In amelyachtowners@...
wrote:
does it reach full pitch. Are you getting over heating when when you run it
Do you have clean fuel and Air filters / cleaners is the prop clean and
hard is the Saltwater heat exchange clear. And are the fans running w/fresh
air. Last is the turbo carbined up. All these will cause rpm loss. It is not
an easy item to solve. We never run wide open a diesel likes a load it does
not need to go full bore all the time.
exhaust from our engine so we've had a Yanmar serviceman look at it. The
Regards
Richard Piller
On Mar 29, 2011, at 19:10, "Mark" <markghayden@> wrote:We have a SM2K with an Autoprop. We have been getting somewhat dark
Yanmar 4JH3-TE engine is rated at 3800 RPM. When testing the boat on calm
water (clean hull, clean prop...), we could got 3100 max RPM, similar to
when I purchased the boat. Referring to the maintenance log, the original
owner got 3250 max RPM when he tested it around the time of purchase from
Amel.
the engine is overloaded and is a likely cause for the exhaust. He went
The Yanmar guy I am working with tells me this RPM is an indication
further and says that Yanmar would not warranty the engine in this
application, given the load, gearing ratio, propeller combination prevents
it from reaching the spec'd RPM. The implication being it is a flawed
design, which I find hard to believe.
response. Has anyone been told this before? Is there an explanation for the
I contacted Amel several months ago about this and didn't get a
design?
Thanks in advance,
Mark