[Amel] SSB installation on Amel 54


Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Hi you need to mount the tuner in starboard stern so you can get to the ground foil. Best to use the whip Antenna. Next the back stay. Using the triact means running a very long wire = lost power and poor reception.

Regards
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On May 24, 2013, at 9:22, lior 555 <lior246@...> wrote:

Hi

I bought an ICOM M802 with tuner AT-140, Pactor modem and I would like to
install it on the boat.
Maybe someone could help me with a few questions.
I would like to use the antenna between the mizzen and main mast. Would you
advice it?
Can someone tell me where I should place the tuner and where is the best
place to install the main unit?

Thanks in advance for your help
Lior

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


lior 555 <lior246@...>
 

Hi Colin and Richard

Thanks a lot for your feedback. I will use a whip antenna.
I just did not understand for what could use the triact.

Regards
Lior








2013/5/28 Richard03801 <richard03801@...>

**


Hi you need to mount the tuner in starboard stern so you can get to the
ground foil. Best to use the whip Antenna. Next the back stay. Using the
triact means running a very long wire = lost power and poor reception.

Regards
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330


On May 24, 2013, at 9:22, lior 555 <lior246@...> wrote:

Hi

I bought an ICOM M802 with tuner AT-140, Pactor modem and I would like to
install it on the boat.
Maybe someone could help me with a few questions.
I would like to use the antenna between the mizzen and main mast. Would you
advice it?
Can someone tell me where I should place the tuner and where is the best
place to install the main unit?

Thanks in advance for your help
Lior

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Martin <yachtcaduceus@...>
 

Can I follow up on this thread please. The base on my whip antenna has just broken, UV and brittle plastic no mixing. I was considering using the opportunity to replace the whip by isolating one of the mizzen backstays. Does anyone have experience of this solution on a 54?

Regards,
Martin Bevan
Caduceus
Amel 54 - 56
Norfolk, VA, USA

--- In amelyachtowners@..., lior 555 <lior246@...> wrote:

Hi Colin and Richard

Thanks a lot for your feedback. I will use a whip antenna.
I just did not understand for what could use the triact.

Regards
Lior








2013/5/28 Richard03801 <richard03801@...>

**


Hi you need to mount the tuner in starboard stern so you can get to the
ground foil. Best to use the whip Antenna. Next the back stay. Using the
triact means running a very long wire = lost power and poor reception.

Regards
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330


On May 24, 2013, at 9:22, lior 555 <lior246@...> wrote:

Hi

I bought an ICOM M802 with tuner AT-140, Pactor modem and I would like to
install it on the boat.
Maybe someone could help me with a few questions.
I would like to use the antenna between the mizzen and main mast. Would you
advice it?
Can someone tell me where I should place the tuner and where is the best
place to install the main unit?

Thanks in advance for your help
Lior

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Peter Forbes
 

Richard,

I finally bough my dream Amel 54 (hull no 35) from an Italian Rudi Peroni in Rhodes last week.

I too am installing Icom 801 SSB. I was told the 2.4m long whip antenna was only for receiving the DSC reply to a distress call and the main antenna for tx/rx should be a separate either triticale or back stay long antenna. Is that not correct.

The Icom 801 is just a marinised version of Icom 802.

Thanks for your help earlier too.

Peter

Peter Forbes

07836 209730
ppsforbes@...

On 28 May 2013, at 03:00, Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:

Hi you need to mount the tuner in starboard stern so you can get to the ground foil. Best to use the whip Antenna. Next the back stay. Using the triact means running a very long wire = lost power and poor reception.

Regards
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On May 24, 2013, at 9:22, lior 555 <lior246@...> wrote:

Hi

I bought an ICOM M802 with tuner AT-140, Pactor modem and I would like to
install it on the boat.
Maybe someone could help me with a few questions.
I would like to use the antenna between the mizzen and main mast. Would you
advice it?
Can someone tell me where I should place the tuner and where is the best
place to install the main unit?

Thanks in advance for your help
Lior

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Anne and John Hollamby <annejohnholl@...>
 

Hello Peter, Many years ago I crewed on a yacht doing the ARC and it had an Icom with the fibre glass antenna. When we were half way across the Atlantic Andrew Bishop, who now runs the ARC, was stuck by the gybing boom and knocked unconscious. We got him down below and when the net came on his father called up for medical advice. This was to put him in his bunk and get him checked when we got to Barbados.
A short while later we heard Cornell talking with his office in the UK trying to get media coverage for the ARC’s life saving advice! The skipper, Andrews father, then had to call his wife in the UK over the short wave link to tell her that there was nothing to worry about in case she read something in the press about her son’s alleged perilous medical condition. This was all done at long range over the fibreglass antenna so I had no concerns about the one on my boat. I would have grave doubts about the competence of your adviser. When the installation is complete get an amateur radio operator to contact anyone at least 1000 miles away for a radio check to make sure you have a good installation and put your mind at rest.
Good luck, Anne and John, Bali Hai, SM2K 319 Malta

From: Peter Forbes
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:59 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Cc: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] SSB installation on Amel 54


Richard,

I finally bough my dream Amel 54 (hull no 35) from an Italian Rudi Peroni in Rhodes last week.

I too am installing Icom 801 SSB. I was told the 2.4m long whip antenna was only for receiving the DSC reply to a distress call and the main antenna for tx/rx should be a separate either triticale or back stay long antenna. Is that not correct.

The Icom 801 is just a marinised version of Icom 802.

Thanks for your help earlier too.

Peter

Peter Forbes

07836 209730
mailto:ppsforbes%40gmail.com

On 28 May 2013, at 03:00, Richard03801 <mailto:richard03801%40yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi you need to mount the tuner in starboard stern so you can get to the ground foil. Best to use the whip Antenna. Next the back stay. Using the triact means running a very long wire = lost power and poor reception.

Regards
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On May 24, 2013, at 9:22, lior 555 <mailto:lior246%40gmail.com> wrote:

Hi

I bought an ICOM M802 with tuner AT-140, Pactor modem and I would like to
install it on the boat.
Maybe someone could help me with a few questions.
I would like to use the antenna between the mizzen and main mast. Would you
advice it?
Can someone tell me where I should place the tuner and where is the best
place to install the main unit?

Thanks in advance for your help
Lior



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Anne and John Hollamby <annejohnholl@...>
 

Hello Peter, Many years ago I crewed on a yacht doing the ARC and it had an Icom with the fibre glass antenna. When we were half way across the Atlantic Andrew Bishop, who now runs the ARC, was stuck by the gybing boom and knocked unconscious. We got him down below and when the net came on his father called up for medical advice. This was to put him in his bunk and get him checked when we got to Barbados.
A short while later we heard Cornell talking with his office in the UK trying to get media coverage for the ARC’s life saving advice! The skipper, Andrews father, then had to call his wife in the UK over the short wave link to tell her that there was nothing to worry about in case she read something in the press about her son’s alleged perilous medical condition. This was all done at long range over the fibreglass antenna so I had no concerns about the one on my boat. I would have grave doubts about the competence of your adviser. When the installation is complete get an amateur radio operator to contact anyone at least 1000 miles away for a radio check to make sure you have a good installation and put your mind at rest.
The answer to Martins query is that using the port mizzen backstay works very well for my ham radio. Getting the insulators and having them fitted is expensive compared with getting a new base for your existing antenna. In the unlikely event that someone should be holding on to the backstay when someone transmits it would cause a nasty burn.
Good luck, Anne and John, Bali Hai, SM2K 319 Malta

From: Peter Forbes
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:59 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Cc: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] SSB installation on Amel 54


Richard,

I finally bough my dream Amel 54 (hull no 35) from an Italian Rudi Peroni in Rhodes last week.

I too am installing Icom 801 SSB. I was told the 2.4m long whip antenna was only for receiving the DSC reply to a distress call and the main antenna for tx/rx should be a separate either triticale or back stay long antenna. Is that not correct.

The Icom 801 is just a marinised version of Icom 802.

Thanks for your help earlier too.

Peter

Peter Forbes

07836 209730
mailto:ppsforbes%40gmail.com

On 28 May 2013, at 03:00, Richard03801 <mailto:richard03801%40yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi you need to mount the tuner in starboard stern so you can get to the ground foil. Best to use the whip Antenna. Next the back stay. Using the triact means running a very long wire = lost power and poor reception.

Regards
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On May 24, 2013, at 9:22, lior 555 <mailto:lior246%40gmail.com> wrote:

Hi

I bought an ICOM M802 with tuner AT-140, Pactor modem and I would like to
install it on the boat.
Maybe someone could help me with a few questions.
I would like to use the antenna between the mizzen and main mast. Would you
advice it?
Can someone tell me where I should place the tuner and where is the best
place to install the main unit?

Thanks in advance for your help
Lior

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Peter Forbes
 

Anne and John,

Thanks so much for that (I am glad the story had a happy outcome.

So it seems the wip antenna does both jobs.

I will tell you how I get on.

This is such a great web group. Thanks for your help.

Peter Forbes
Amel54035
2G006
07836 209730
ppsforbes@...

On 29 May 2013, at 10:00, "Anne and John Hollamby " <annejohnholl@...> wrote:

Hello Peter, Many years ago I crewed on a yacht doing the ARC and it had an Icom with the fibre glass antenna. When we were half way across the Atlantic Andrew Bishop, who now runs the ARC, was stuck by the gybing boom and knocked unconscious. We got him down below and when the net came on his father called up for medical advice. This was to put him in his bunk and get him checked when we got to Barbados.
A short while later we heard Cornell talking with his office in the UK trying to get media coverage for the ARC’s life saving advice! The skipper, Andrews father, then had to call his wife in the UK over the short wave link to tell her that there was nothing to worry about in case she read something in the press about her son’s alleged perilous medical condition. This was all done at long range over the fibreglass antenna so I had no concerns about the one on my boat. I would have grave doubts about the competence of your adviser. When the installation is complete get an amateur radio operator to contact anyone at least 1000 miles away for a radio check to make sure you have a good installation and put your mind at rest.
The answer to Martins query is that using the port mizzen backstay works very well for my ham radio. Getting the insulators and having them fitted is expensive compared with getting a new base for your existing antenna. In the unlikely event that someone should be holding on to the backstay when someone transmits it would cause a nasty burn.
Good luck, Anne and John, Bali Hai, SM2K 319 Malta

From: Peter Forbes
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:59 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Cc: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] SSB installation on Amel 54

Richard,

I finally bough my dream Amel 54 (hull no 35) from an Italian Rudi Peroni in Rhodes last week.

I too am installing Icom 801 SSB. I was told the 2.4m long whip antenna was only for receiving the DSC reply to a distress call and the main antenna for tx/rx should be a separate either triticale or back stay long antenna. Is that not correct.

The Icom 801 is just a marinised version of Icom 802.

Thanks for your help earlier too.

Peter

Peter Forbes

07836 209730
mailto:ppsforbes%40gmail.com

On 28 May 2013, at 03:00, Richard03801 <mailto:richard03801%40yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi you need to mount the tuner in starboard stern so you can get to the ground foil. Best to use the whip Antenna. Next the back stay. Using the triact means running a very long wire = lost power and poor reception.

Regards
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On May 24, 2013, at 9:22, lior 555 <mailto:lior246%40gmail.com> wrote:

Hi

I bought an ICOM M802 with tuner AT-140, Pactor modem and I would like to
install it on the boat.
Maybe someone could help me with a few questions.
I would like to use the antenna between the mizzen and main mast. Would you
advice it?
Can someone tell me where I should place the tuner and where is the best
place to install the main unit?

Thanks in advance for your help
Lior

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Hi Peter I don't know who gave you that information they are completely and totally in error that fiberglass antenna will do you well worldwide

Regards
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On May 29, 2013, at 4:51, "Anne and John Hollamby " <annejohnholl@...> wrote:

Hello Peter, Many years ago I crewed on a yacht doing the ARC and it had an Icom with the fibre glass antenna. When we were half way across the Atlantic Andrew Bishop, who now runs the ARC, was stuck by the gybing boom and knocked unconscious. We got him down below and when the net came on his father called up for medical advice. This was to put him in his bunk and get him checked when we got to Barbados.
A short while later we heard Cornell talking with his office in the UK trying to get media coverage for the ARC’s life saving advice! The skipper, Andrews father, then had to call his wife in the UK over the short wave link to tell her that there was nothing to worry about in case she read something in the press about her son’s alleged perilous medical condition. This was all done at long range over the fibreglass antenna so I had no concerns about the one on my boat. I would have grave doubts about the competence of your adviser. When the installation is complete get an amateur radio operator to contact anyone at least 1000 miles away for a radio check to make sure you have a good installation and put your mind at rest.
Good luck, Anne and John, Bali Hai, SM2K 319 Malta

From: Peter Forbes
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:59 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Cc: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] SSB installation on Amel 54

Richard,

I finally bough my dream Amel 54 (hull no 35) from an Italian Rudi Peroni in Rhodes last week.

I too am installing Icom 801 SSB. I was told the 2.4m long whip antenna was only for receiving the DSC reply to a distress call and the main antenna for tx/rx should be a separate either triticale or back stay long antenna. Is that not correct.

The Icom 801 is just a marinised version of Icom 802.

Thanks for your help earlier too.

Peter

Peter Forbes

07836 209730
mailto:ppsforbes%40gmail.com

On 28 May 2013, at 03:00, Richard03801 <mailto:richard03801%40yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi you need to mount the tuner in starboard stern so you can get to the ground foil. Best to use the whip Antenna. Next the back stay. Using the triact means running a very long wire = lost power and poor reception.

Regards
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On May 24, 2013, at 9:22, lior 555 <mailto:lior246%40gmail.com> wrote:

Hi

I bought an ICOM M802 with tuner AT-140, Pactor modem and I would like to
install it on the boat.
Maybe someone could help me with a few questions.
I would like to use the antenna between the mizzen and main mast. Would you
advice it?
Can someone tell me where I should place the tuner and where is the best
place to install the main unit?

Thanks in advance for your help
Lior



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


jcglt - FK8IH <jcjglt@...>
 

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:

Hi you need to mount the tuner in starboard stern so you can get to the ground foil. Best to use the whip Antenna. Next the back stay. Using the triact means running a very long wire = lost power and poor reception.

Regards
Richard Piller
Here follows a copy of an interesting article about the length of the active antenna above the Automatic Tuning Unit. I personnaly use around 41 feet for my isolated backstay on HamRadio bands.
jcglt - S/Y Bauhinia

The "Best" Random Wire Antenna Lengths

Randon wire lengths you should and should not use!
The random wire antenna is probably one of the least expensive, easiest and
cheapest HF antennas to use if you have a tuner and you want to get the "most" out of a length of "random" wire without having to pull out that calculator, doing the math, getting the center insulator built or bought, running the feedline, and all the rest that goes with putting up a more elaborate antenna.
All you need for a random wire antenna is some wire, your tuner, one or more supports up as high as you can get them to string the wire from the supports to the tuner, at least one or two insulators and a little time.

One single wire, no solder connections, very simple.... all the way from the tuner to the end support. That's it in a nutshell.....or is it?

Many hams have tried till they are blue in the face to install the random wire antenna that works on most; if not all of the HF bands with terrible results.

Swr usually is all over the place and the tuner will just not do it's job. You can get good loading and low swr on sometimes 2 or 3 bands, but one or more of the bands that you want, just will not cooperate with an swr that can be adjusted with the "tuner".

So after much frustration..down it comes and you go on to a totally different type of antenna....all that time just wasted in your opinion.....until now!

We recently found some good information about random wire lengths that you should and should not use.

Jack, VE3EED, hopefully has solved a major headache we all have when we attempt to go thru the trial and error and frustration with getting the random wire to work where WE want it to work.

He knew that in order for the tuner to "see" a fairly low swr to work within it's range, that the antenna had to be NOT A HALF WAVE ON ANY FREQUENCY that we wanted to use, because a half wave will give us a very high impedance and the resulting swr into a 50 ohm transmitter!

So Jack took most of one day, did the math with the aid of his trusty calculator, several cups of coffee and came up with...............................

In Jack's own words....
"Here's the word on random-wire antennae."

Presented for your consideration by Jack, VE3EED.

The table below represents half wave lengths and multiples that you
DO NOT WANT TO USE!

You have to stay away from a half wavelength on any frequency.
Therefore, we came up with the following numbers to avoid (IN FEET):

These lengths in the table below are the culprits that cause all of the trouble when using random lengths.

Frequency MHz 1/2 Wave 2nd Multiple 3rd Multiple 4th Multiple
1.9 246 492 738 984
3.8 123 246 369 492
7.2 65 130 195 260
10.1 46 92 138 184
14.2 33 66 99 132
18.1 26 52 78 104
21.3 22 44 66 88
24.9 19 38 57 76
28.5 16 32 48 64


So those are the numbers above that we have to stay as far away from as possible when building a long-wire antenna.

Here they are in order:
REVISED: 16 19 22 26 32 33 38 44 46 48 52 64 65 66 76 78 80 88 92 95 96 99 104 110 112 114 123 128 130 132 133 138 144 152 154 156 160 165 171 176 182 184 190 192 195 198 208 209 220 224 228 230 231 234 240 242 246 247 256 260 264 266 272 276 285 286 288 297 304 308 312 320 322 323 325 330 336 338 342 352 361 363 364 366 368 369 374 380 384 390 396 399 400 414 416 418 429 432 437 440 442 448 455 456 460 462 464 468 475 480 484 494 495 496.

Some of these numbers are too close to squeeze in between them.

Here are the final numbers (in my opinion) in green below that would be good for a long-wire antenna: (You may want to make a note of them)

REVISED: 29 35.5 41 58 71 84 107 119 148 203 347 407 423


Alan Leslie
 

On our supermaramu there is a thick green/yellow cable that runs from the ground foil in the lazarette along the starboard side to the nav station...it had BLU handwritten on it and was connected to the main ground.
I disconnected that and used it to earth the ICOM 710 installed at the nav station. I ran a similar gauge cable from the ICOM to the tuner which is mounted on the aft wall of the small hanging locker opposite and just forward of the aft head.
The antenna wire from the triatic stay comes down the mizzen mast and is accessible behind a panel in the aft head.
I connected this to the tuner antenna connection.
It all works very well.

Cheers
Alan
SM#437 ELYSE

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "jcglt - FK8IH" <jcjglt@...> wrote:



--- In amelyachtowners@..., Richard03801 <richard03801@> wrote:

Hi you need to mount the tuner in starboard stern so you can get to the ground foil. Best to use the whip Antenna. Next the back stay. Using the triact means running a very long wire = lost power and poor reception.

Regards
Richard Piller
Here follows a copy of an interesting article about the length of the active antenna above the Automatic Tuning Unit. I personnaly use around 41 feet for my isolated backstay on HamRadio bands.
jcglt - S/Y Bauhinia

The "Best" Random Wire Antenna Lengths

Randon wire lengths you should and should not use!
The random wire antenna is probably one of the least expensive, easiest and
cheapest HF antennas to use if you have a tuner and you want to get the "most" out of a length of "random" wire without having to pull out that calculator, doing the math, getting the center insulator built or bought, running the feedline, and all the rest that goes with putting up a more elaborate antenna.
All you need for a random wire antenna is some wire, your tuner, one or more supports up as high as you can get them to string the wire from the supports to the tuner, at least one or two insulators and a little time.

One single wire, no solder connections, very simple.... all the way from the tuner to the end support. That's it in a nutshell.....or is it?

Many hams have tried till they are blue in the face to install the random wire antenna that works on most; if not all of the HF bands with terrible results.

Swr usually is all over the place and the tuner will just not do it's job. You can get good loading and low swr on sometimes 2 or 3 bands, but one or more of the bands that you want, just will not cooperate with an swr that can be adjusted with the "tuner".

So after much frustration..down it comes and you go on to a totally different type of antenna....all that time just wasted in your opinion.....until now!

We recently found some good information about random wire lengths that you should and should not use.

Jack, VE3EED, hopefully has solved a major headache we all have when we attempt to go thru the trial and error and frustration with getting the random wire to work where WE want it to work.

He knew that in order for the tuner to "see" a fairly low swr to work within it's range, that the antenna had to be NOT A HALF WAVE ON ANY FREQUENCY that we wanted to use, because a half wave will give us a very high impedance and the resulting swr into a 50 ohm transmitter!

So Jack took most of one day, did the math with the aid of his trusty calculator, several cups of coffee and came up with...............................

In Jack's own words....
"Here's the word on random-wire antennae."

Presented for your consideration by Jack, VE3EED.

The table below represents half wave lengths and multiples that you
DO NOT WANT TO USE!

You have to stay away from a half wavelength on any frequency.
Therefore, we came up with the following numbers to avoid (IN FEET):

These lengths in the table below are the culprits that cause all of the trouble when using random lengths.

Frequency MHz 1/2 Wave 2nd Multiple 3rd Multiple 4th Multiple
1.9 246 492 738 984
3.8 123 246 369 492
7.2 65 130 195 260
10.1 46 92 138 184
14.2 33 66 99 132
18.1 26 52 78 104
21.3 22 44 66 88
24.9 19 38 57 76
28.5 16 32 48 64


So those are the numbers above that we have to stay as far away from as possible when building a long-wire antenna.

Here they are in order:
REVISED: 16 19 22 26 32 33 38 44 46 48 52 64 65 66 76 78 80 88 92 95 96 99 104 110 112 114 123 128 130 132 133 138 144 152 154 156 160 165 171 176 182 184 190 192 195 198 208 209 220 224 228 230 231 234 240 242 246 247 256 260 264 266 272 276 285 286 288 297 304 308 312 320 322 323 325 330 336 338 342 352 361 363 364 366 368 369 374 380 384 390 396 399 400 414 416 418 429 432 437 440 442 448 455 456 460 462 464 468 475 480 484 494 495 496.

Some of these numbers are too close to squeeze in between them.

Here are the final numbers (in my opinion) in green below that would be good for a long-wire antenna: (You may want to make a note of them)

REVISED: 29 35.5 41 58 71 84 107 119 148 203 347 407 423


lior 555 <lior246@...>
 

Dear Alan

Thank you so much for your mail.
That's exactly what I asked if it would work. All the professional people
that I asked told me that it would not work because the antenna wire starts
directly after the tuner and the wire to the triatic would be also an
"antenna" inside the mizzen.
I have the Amel 54 and I am not sure that I understood in what locker you
installed the tuner. I have a small locker just on the starboard side of
the mizzen. Do you mean this one?
Can I ask here again? It is written everywhere that the antenna starts
directly after the tuner. does anyone made also the installation like Alan?

Thanks a lot for your respond.

Cheers
Lior



2013/5/30 alan_leslie_elyes_sm2k <divanz620@...>

**


On our supermaramu there is a thick green/yellow cable that runs from the
ground foil in the lazarette along the starboard side to the nav
station...it had BLU handwritten on it and was connected to the main ground.
I disconnected that and used it to earth the ICOM 710 installed at the nav
station. I ran a similar gauge cable from the ICOM to the tuner which is
mounted on the aft wall of the small hanging locker opposite and just
forward of the aft head.
The antenna wire from the triatic stay comes down the mizzen mast and is
accessible behind a panel in the aft head.
I connected this to the tuner antenna connection.
It all works very well.

Cheers
Alan
SM#437 ELYSE

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "jcglt - FK8IH" <jcjglt@...>
wrote:




--- In amelyachtowners@..., Richard03801 <richard03801@>
wrote:

Hi you need to mount the tuner in starboard stern so you can get to
the ground foil. Best to use the whip Antenna. Next the back stay. Using
the triact means running a very long wire = lost power and poor reception.

Regards
Richard Piller
Here follows a copy of an interesting article about the length of the
active antenna above the Automatic Tuning Unit. I personnaly use around 41
feet for my isolated backstay on HamRadio bands.
jcglt - S/Y Bauhinia

The "Best" Random Wire Antenna Lengths

Randon wire lengths you should and should not use!
The random wire antenna is probably one of the least expensive, easiest
and
cheapest HF antennas to use if you have a tuner and you want to get the
"most" out of a length of "random" wire without having to pull out that
calculator, doing the math, getting the center insulator built or bought,
running the feedline, and all the rest that goes with putting up a more
elaborate antenna.
All you need for a random wire antenna is some wire, your tuner, one or
more supports up as high as you can get them to string the wire from the
supports to the tuner, at least one or two insulators and a little time.

One single wire, no solder connections, very simple.... all the way from
the tuner to the end support. That's it in a nutshell.....or is it?

Many hams have tried till they are blue in the face to install the
random wire antenna that works on most; if not all of the HF bands with
terrible results.

Swr usually is all over the place and the tuner will just not do it's
job. You can get good loading and low swr on sometimes 2 or 3 bands, but
one or more of the bands that you want, just will not cooperate with an swr
that can be adjusted with the "tuner".

So after much frustration..down it comes and you go on to a totally
different type of antenna....all that time just wasted in your
opinion.....until now!

We recently found some good information about random wire lengths that
you should and should not use.

Jack, VE3EED, hopefully has solved a major headache we all have when we
attempt to go thru the trial and error and frustration with getting the
random wire to work where WE want it to work.

He knew that in order for the tuner to "see" a fairly low swr to work
within it's range, that the antenna had to be NOT A HALF WAVE ON ANY
FREQUENCY that we wanted to use, because a half wave will give us a very
high impedance and the resulting swr into a 50 ohm transmitter!

So Jack took most of one day, did the math with the aid of his trusty
calculator, several cups of coffee and came up
with...............................

In Jack's own words....
"Here's the word on random-wire antennae."

Presented for your consideration by Jack, VE3EED.

The table below represents half wave lengths and multiples that you
DO NOT WANT TO USE!

You have to stay away from a half wavelength on any frequency.
Therefore, we came up with the following numbers to avoid (IN FEET):

These lengths in the table below are the culprits that cause all of the
trouble when using random lengths.

Frequency MHz 1/2 Wave 2nd Multiple 3rd Multiple 4th Multiple
1.9 246 492 738 984
3.8 123 246 369 492
7.2 65 130 195 260
10.1 46 92 138 184
14.2 33 66 99 132
18.1 26 52 78 104
21.3 22 44 66 88
24.9 19 38 57 76
28.5 16 32 48 64


So those are the numbers above that we have to stay as far away from as
possible when building a long-wire antenna.

Here they are in order:
REVISED: 16 19 22 26 32 33 38 44 46 48 52 64 65 66 76 78 80 88 92 95 96
99 104 110 112 114 123 128 130 132 133 138 144 152 154 156 160 165 171 176
182 184 190 192 195 198 208 209 220 224 228 230 231 234 240 242 246 247 256
260 264 266 272 276 285 286 288 297 304 308 312 320 322 323 325 330 336 338
342 352 361 363 364 366 368 369 374 380 384 390 396 399 400 414 416 418 429
432 437 440 442 448 455 456 460 462 464 468 475 480 484 494 495 496.

Some of these numbers are too close to squeeze in between them.

Here are the final numbers (in my opinion) in green below that would be
good for a long-wire antenna: (You may want to make a note of them)

REVISED: 29 35.5 41 58 71 84 107 119 148 203 347 407 423


Alan Leslie
 

Lior,

Yes the locker opposite the mizzen mast and just in the forward side of that bulkhead.
The wire that comes down the mizzen is a coax. If you earth the coax shield at the tuner, it won't act like an antenna.
I don't know about what other people say but this was the setup recommended to me by Amel and it works for me.

Alan
SM#437 ELYSE

--- In amelyachtowners@..., lior 555 <lior246@...> wrote:

Dear Alan

Thank you so much for your mail.
That's exactly what I asked if it would work. All the professional people
that I asked told me that it would not work because the antenna wire starts
directly after the tuner and the wire to the triatic would be also an
"antenna" inside the mizzen.
I have the Amel 54 and I am not sure that I understood in what locker you
installed the tuner. I have a small locker just on the starboard side of
the mizzen. Do you mean this one?
Can I ask here again? It is written everywhere that the antenna starts
directly after the tuner. does anyone made also the installation like Alan?

Thanks a lot for your respond.

Cheers
Lior



2013/5/30 alan_leslie_elyes_sm2k <divanz620@...>

**


On our supermaramu there is a thick green/yellow cable that runs from the
ground foil in the lazarette along the starboard side to the nav
station...it had BLU handwritten on it and was connected to the main ground.
I disconnected that and used it to earth the ICOM 710 installed at the nav
station. I ran a similar gauge cable from the ICOM to the tuner which is
mounted on the aft wall of the small hanging locker opposite and just
forward of the aft head.
The antenna wire from the triatic stay comes down the mizzen mast and is
accessible behind a panel in the aft head.
I connected this to the tuner antenna connection.
It all works very well.

Cheers
Alan
SM#437 ELYSE

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "jcglt - FK8IH" <jcjglt@>
wrote:




--- In amelyachtowners@..., Richard03801 <richard03801@>
wrote:

Hi you need to mount the tuner in starboard stern so you can get to
the ground foil. Best to use the whip Antenna. Next the back stay. Using
the triact means running a very long wire = lost power and poor reception.

Regards
Richard Piller
Here follows a copy of an interesting article about the length of the
active antenna above the Automatic Tuning Unit. I personnaly use around 41
feet for my isolated backstay on HamRadio bands.
jcglt - S/Y Bauhinia

The "Best" Random Wire Antenna Lengths

Randon wire lengths you should and should not use!
The random wire antenna is probably one of the least expensive, easiest
and
cheapest HF antennas to use if you have a tuner and you want to get the
"most" out of a length of "random" wire without having to pull out that
calculator, doing the math, getting the center insulator built or bought,
running the feedline, and all the rest that goes with putting up a more
elaborate antenna.
All you need for a random wire antenna is some wire, your tuner, one or
more supports up as high as you can get them to string the wire from the
supports to the tuner, at least one or two insulators and a little time.

One single wire, no solder connections, very simple.... all the way from
the tuner to the end support. That's it in a nutshell.....or is it?

Many hams have tried till they are blue in the face to install the
random wire antenna that works on most; if not all of the HF bands with
terrible results.

Swr usually is all over the place and the tuner will just not do it's
job. You can get good loading and low swr on sometimes 2 or 3 bands, but
one or more of the bands that you want, just will not cooperate with an swr
that can be adjusted with the "tuner".

So after much frustration..down it comes and you go on to a totally
different type of antenna....all that time just wasted in your
opinion.....until now!

We recently found some good information about random wire lengths that
you should and should not use.

Jack, VE3EED, hopefully has solved a major headache we all have when we
attempt to go thru the trial and error and frustration with getting the
random wire to work where WE want it to work.

He knew that in order for the tuner to "see" a fairly low swr to work
within it's range, that the antenna had to be NOT A HALF WAVE ON ANY
FREQUENCY that we wanted to use, because a half wave will give us a very
high impedance and the resulting swr into a 50 ohm transmitter!

So Jack took most of one day, did the math with the aid of his trusty
calculator, several cups of coffee and came up
with...............................

In Jack's own words....
"Here's the word on random-wire antennae."

Presented for your consideration by Jack, VE3EED.

The table below represents half wave lengths and multiples that you
DO NOT WANT TO USE!

You have to stay away from a half wavelength on any frequency.
Therefore, we came up with the following numbers to avoid (IN FEET):

These lengths in the table below are the culprits that cause all of the
trouble when using random lengths.

Frequency MHz 1/2 Wave 2nd Multiple 3rd Multiple 4th Multiple
1.9 246 492 738 984
3.8 123 246 369 492
7.2 65 130 195 260
10.1 46 92 138 184
14.2 33 66 99 132
18.1 26 52 78 104
21.3 22 44 66 88
24.9 19 38 57 76
28.5 16 32 48 64


So those are the numbers above that we have to stay as far away from as
possible when building a long-wire antenna.

Here they are in order:
REVISED: 16 19 22 26 32 33 38 44 46 48 52 64 65 66 76 78 80 88 92 95 96
99 104 110 112 114 123 128 130 132 133 138 144 152 154 156 160 165 171 176
182 184 190 192 195 198 208 209 220 224 228 230 231 234 240 242 246 247 256
260 264 266 272 276 285 286 288 297 304 308 312 320 322 323 325 330 336 338
342 352 361 363 364 366 368 369 374 380 384 390 396 399 400 414 416 418 429
432 437 440 442 448 455 456 460 462 464 468 475 480 484 494 495 496.

Some of these numbers are too close to squeeze in between them.

Here are the final numbers (in my opinion) in green below that would be
good for a long-wire antenna: (You may want to make a note of them)

REVISED: 29 35.5 41 58 71 84 107 119 148 203 347 407 423


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Peter Forbes
 

john,

I have only really just twigged that you are a friend of Merlo who we saw
recently with Keith Outram en route as ever to Antigua.

I hope we meet you before too long.

My SSB is now fitted - now for the trial transmit - are you aboard and do
you have SSB can we test call - I can send my details - we will be on the
Amel 54 next week in Turkey.

Peter
Peter Forbes
Amel 54 #35 in Gocek Turkey

Best wishes
*Peter Forbes*
+44 (0) 7836 209730
ppsforbes@...


On 29 May 2013 10:00, Anne and John Hollamby <annejohnholl@...> wrote:

**


Hello Peter, Many years ago I crewed on a yacht doing the ARC and it had
an Icom with the fibre glass antenna. When we were half way across the
Atlantic Andrew Bishop, who now runs the ARC, was stuck by the gybing boom
and knocked unconscious. We got him down below and when the net came on his
father called up for medical advice. This was to put him in his bunk and
get him checked when we got to Barbados.
A short while later we heard Cornell talking with his office in the UK
trying to get media coverage for the ARCs life saving advice! The skipper,
Andrews father, then had to call his wife in the UK over the short wave
link to tell her that there was nothing to worry about in case she read
something in the press about her sons alleged perilous medical condition.
This was all done at long range over the fibreglass antenna so I had no
concerns about the one on my boat. I would have grave doubts about the
competence of your adviser. When the installation is complete get an
amateur radio operator to contact anyone at least 1000 miles away for a
radio check to make sure you have a good installation and put your mind at
rest.
The answer to Martins query is that using the port mizzen backstay works
very well for my ham radio. Getting the insulators and having them fitted
is expensive compared with getting a new base for your existing antenna. In
the unlikely event that someone should be holding on to the backstay when
someone transmits it would cause a nasty burn.
Good luck, Anne and John, Bali Hai, SM2K 319 Malta

From: Peter Forbes
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:59 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Cc: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] SSB installation on Amel 54

Richard,

I finally bough my dream Amel 54 (hull no 35) from an Italian Rudi Peroni
in Rhodes last week.

I too am installing Icom 801 SSB. I was told the 2.4m long whip antenna
was only for receiving the DSC reply to a distress call and the main
antenna for tx/rx should be a separate either triticale or back stay long
antenna. Is that not correct.

The Icom 801 is just a marinised version of Icom 802.

Thanks for your help earlier too.

Peter

Peter Forbes

07836 209730
mailto:ppsforbes%40gmail.com

On 28 May 2013, at 03:00, Richard03801 <mailto:richard03801%40yahoo.com>
wrote:

Hi you need to mount the tuner in starboard stern so you can get to the
ground foil. Best to use the whip Antenna. Next the back stay. Using the
triact means running a very long wire = lost power and poor reception.

Regards
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On May 24, 2013, at 9:22, lior 555 <mailto:lior246%40gmail.com> wrote:

Hi

I bought an ICOM M802 with tuner AT-140, Pactor modem and I would like to
install it on the boat.
Maybe someone could help me with a few questions.
I would like to use the antenna between the mizzen and main mast. Would
you
advice it?
Can someone tell me where I should place the tuner and where is the best
place to install the main unit?

Thanks in advance for your help
Lior





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Anne and John Hollamby <annejohnholl@...>
 

Hello Peter,
We are in Sicily and I have been fiddling with things to install AIS so our SSB is out of use for a few days. I will Email you again after it is all working next week. I might add that we used it a lot in the Caribbean and S. Pacific but have not used it for ten years in the Med. We did try the cruisers net but it was too boring. John

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Forbes
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 1:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] SSB installation on Amel 54

john,

I have only really just twigged that you are a friend of Merlo who we saw
recently with Keith Outram en route as ever to Antigua.

I hope we meet you before too long.

My SSB is now fitted - now for the trial transmit - are you aboard and do
you have SSB can we test call - I can send my details - we will be on the
Amel 54 next week in Turkey.

Peter
Peter Forbes
Amel 54 #35 in Gocek Turkey

Best wishes
*Peter Forbes*
+44 (0) 7836 209730
ppsforbes@...


On 29 May 2013 10:00, Anne and John Hollamby <annejohnholl@...> wrote:

**


Hello Peter, Many years ago I crewed on a yacht doing the ARC and it had
an Icom with the fibre glass antenna. When we were half way across the
Atlantic Andrew Bishop, who now runs the ARC, was stuck by the gybing boom
and knocked unconscious. We got him down below and when the net came on his
father called up for medical advice. This was to put him in his bunk and
get him checked when we got to Barbados.
A short while later we heard Cornell talking with his office in the UK
trying to get media coverage for the ARCs life saving advice! The skipper,
Andrews father, then had to call his wife in the UK over the short wave
link to tell her that there was nothing to worry about in case she read
something in the press about her sons alleged perilous medical condition.
This was all done at long range over the fibreglass antenna so I had no
concerns about the one on my boat. I would have grave doubts about the
competence of your adviser. When the installation is complete get an
amateur radio operator to contact anyone at least 1000 miles away for a
radio check to make sure you have a good installation and put your mind at
rest.
The answer to Martins query is that using the port mizzen backstay works
very well for my ham radio. Getting the insulators and having them fitted
is expensive compared with getting a new base for your existing antenna. In
the unlikely event that someone should be holding on to the backstay when
someone transmits it would cause a nasty burn.
Good luck, Anne and John, Bali Hai, SM2K 319 Malta

From: Peter Forbes
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:59 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Cc: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] SSB installation on Amel 54

Richard,

I finally bough my dream Amel 54 (hull no 35) from an Italian Rudi Peroni
in Rhodes last week.

I too am installing Icom 801 SSB. I was told the 2.4m long whip antenna
was only for receiving the DSC reply to a distress call and the main
antenna for tx/rx should be a separate either triticale or back stay long
antenna. Is that not correct.

The Icom 801 is just a marinised version of Icom 802.

Thanks for your help earlier too.

Peter

Peter Forbes

07836 209730
mailto:ppsforbes%40gmail.com

On 28 May 2013, at 03:00, Richard03801 <mailto:richard03801%40yahoo.com>
wrote:

Hi you need to mount the tuner in starboard stern so you can get to the
ground foil. Best to use the whip Antenna. Next the back stay. Using the
triact means running a very long wire = lost power and poor reception.

Regards
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On May 24, 2013, at 9:22, lior 555 <mailto:lior246%40gmail.com> wrote:

Hi

I bought an ICOM M802 with tuner AT-140, Pactor modem and I would like to
install it on the boat.
Maybe someone could help me with a few questions.
I would like to use the antenna between the mizzen and main mast. Would
you
advice it?
Can someone tell me where I should place the tuner and where is the best
place to install the main unit?

Thanks in advance for your help
Lior











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